How much refugees are costing us

[cougar]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

 We have hundreds of thousands of temporary foreign workers and hundreds of thousands of students in this country at any given time. Where do you think they live?

I imagine all of them have valid paperwork - a visa in their passport which shows how long they can stay in the country.

Existing without proper documentation and remaining hidden from the government where they have no way to find you sounds like a fairy tale to me.

Edited November 18, 2019 by cougar

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

What a bunch of tripe.

We don't have any control over whether or not shithole countries choose to be shithole countries and have civil wars or start wars with other countries. Globalization and climate change aren't acceptable reasons for mass migration.

Go away.  Scriblett was only trying to appear stupid. Something you've already succeeded at doing. 

[Cannucklehead]

31 minutes ago, cougar said:

I imagine all of them have valid paperwork - a visa in their passport which shows how long they can stay in the country.

Existing without proper documentation and remaining hidden from the government where they have no way to find you sounds like a fairy tale to me.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/torontosun.com/2013/01/23/twice-deported-alleged-drug-pusher-back-in-canada-and-on-the-run/wcm/451dc1c1-819a-4c02-9866-61fcec9e5370/amp

 

It happens.  

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Go away.  Scriblett was only trying to appear stupid. Something you've already succeeded at doing. 

I'd know if I ever said something stupid because you'd agree with it.

[Michael Hardner]

If it makes people feel better, we can say that although US policies were largely to blame for what conflicts/escalations eventually resulted in refugees from Syria and Libya, we can also say the policies happened under the Obama administration.  Whew.

(Edited to add: And yes I know Canada is too small and insignificant to cause major humanitarian disasters thanks)

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

If it makes people feel better, we can say that although US policies were largely to blame for what conflicts/escalations eventually resulted in refugees from Syria and Libya, we can also say the policies happened under the Obama administration.  Whew.

(Edited to add: And yes I know Canada is too small and insignificant to cause major humanitarian disasters thanks)

 

Actually, "too small" Canada directly participated in the strangulation and economic destruction of Libya and Syria.   This after PM Martin cut deals for oil services contracts with dictator Muammar Mohammed Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi.   Canada would go on to actually bombing both nations with strike aircraft, killing the locals and increasing the refugee exodus.

 

https://www.international.gc.ca/world-monde/international_relations-relations_internationales/sanctions/syria-syrie.aspx?lang=eng

 

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Canada is too small and insignificant to cause major humanitarian disasters thanks)

Countries like Canada sat on their fat lazy asses while our allies created much of the shit now blowing back ìn everyone's faces . Canada deserves everything it gets as well for that reason... everything. It makes me happy that so many conservatives are so upset with so many foreigners running around.  I hope it causes the sort of divisiveness that wrecks this stupid country.  I truly relish seeing so much shit being rubbed in its stupid face, especially its conservative face.

I just hope these fuckers live long enough for it to sink in. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Countries like Canada sat on their fat lazy asses while our allies created much of the shit now blowing back ìn everyone's faces .

 

Nope....Canada was a direct participant in such things.....driving refugees to its own shores.   Enjoy !

Edited November 18, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Moonlight Graham]

On 11/16/2019 at 4:19 PM, Michael Hardner said:

https://irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/Pages/Irregular-border-crosser-statistics.aspx

Statscan has 45K border crossers since early 2017, for about 2.5 years.  They seem to be accepting a little over 50% so that would leave us with maybe 25K refugees out of say 750K immigrants over that time or about 3%. 

One of the issues is that even though IRCC/IRB is accepting around 50% of the illegal border crossers, all refugee claimants whether eventually accepted or rejected get issued health cards so have access to our healthcare system, can get access to shelter and food bank services and other benefits etc.  This goes for every refugee claimant, not just illegal border crossers.  So it costs a lot of money.

But i'm not as much worried about these monetary costs.  I'm worried about what very impoverished refugees that have poor education, skills, and proficiency of english/french are doing to our communities.  For instance, the media frames the gun violence problems in ie: Toronto and Ottawa as a problem with our gun laws.  It's not, we've had similar gun laws for decades.  It's a problem with the quality of some of the people we're letting live in this country.  Access to guns isn't causing gun violence. Very low income people without a hope in hell of making much money without resorting to criminal activity is causing gun violence.

 

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Toronto and Ottawa as a problem with our gun laws.  It's not, we've had similar gun laws for decades.  It's a problem with the quality of some of the people we're letting live in this country.  Access to guns isn't causing gun violence. Very low income people without a hope in hell of making much money without resorting to criminal activity is causing gun violence.

All the gangsters I know were born here.  They haven't imported gang culture, they've adopted American gang culture.

 

[Dougie93]

You see these kids in the hood when they are little, they know nothing about gangs, they are sweet little kids, they play with their toys, they hang with their moms

Come back in a few years, and they've adopted our ways, South Side in the 6ix, Chain Grabs & Retweets,  social media is the driver of the gun violence.

Information War.

It is not they who are corrupting Canada, it is Canada which corrupts them.

The cycle of violence is such that they don't expect to live, they expect to die.

So they live as fast as they can.  Get rich and die trying.

Recklessly brave, ready to go down swinging at the drop.

It's not like Bloods & Crips anymore.    The gangs are decentralized.  Smaller crews, tighter knit.

They all want to be stars like Drake, all these crews are hip-hop crews.

There's a whole industry built around them.  They compete for views on social media.

Record companies encourage them, to enhance their commercial value by upping their street cred.

They sell cocaine on the street, they are corporate assets on youtube,

Top Mali's don't pray at the mosque, they go like rockets, run the gauntlet, make as much money as they can, before they die.

It's not foreign, it's domestic : consumer culture.   They got so much cash, they can't spend it fast enough.

Rest up, Smoke Dawg.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Dougie93

[Cannucklehead]

7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Actually, "too small" Canada directly participated in the strangulation and economic destruction of Libya and Syria.   This after PM Martin cut deals for oil services contracts with dictator Muammar Mohammed Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi.   Canada would go on to actually bombing both nations with strike aircraft, killing the locals and increasing the refugee exodus.

 

https://www.international.gc.ca/world-monde/international_relations-relations_internationales/sanctions/syria-syrie.aspx?lang=eng

 

Lol after you criticize Canada several times for pulling out of Syria?  

Get bent.  

[bush_cheney2004]

33 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Lol after you criticize Canada several times for pulling out of Syria?  

Get bent.  

 

But...but....but...Trump !   You can always blame the Americans later...it's the Canadian way.

They are your refugees...enjoy them to the max and be sure to pay the bill....gladly.

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1.  So it costs a lot of money.

2.  Very low income people without a hope in hell of making much money without resorting to criminal activity is causing gun violence.

 

1. That's until they get their hearing.  Rue's assertion that they stay anyway is more of a concern to me but ok.

2. There's some level of screening done there but I accept your concerns on face value.  If we can agree to discuss such things objectively and without agenda, then we could do something like (gasp) a study to see how it turns out.  Something to note, though, is that we're talking asessing about risk here - something the "public", or really the masses, are unable to do.  If a single refugee out of 45,000 a year commits a violent act the reactionary mindset moves to cast judgement on all which is ridiculous.

I really hope that we can get to a place of discussion some day when we can have those kinds of discussions but there is no trust in any institution to host them right now.

[Moonlight Graham]

6 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

All the gangsters I know were born here. 

Where were their parents born?  How did their family get into Canada, and why do gang members almost always come from very low-income families in urban neighbourhoods? The poorest neighbourhoods with the most crime in most major Canadian cities are populated with specific demographics.

I'm fine with giving refugees a chance, no matter where you're from or your income level or education/skills when you get here.  But if you can't make it economically in Canada after a certain period, you should be forced to leave and be resettled in a developing country where you can seek refuge and won't drag the country down nearly as much if at all.

Quote

They haven't imported gang culture, they've adopted American gang culture.

Yup no violent gang culture in Somalia, Nigeria, Colombia, Mexico, Jamaica, Trinidad, China, India etc.  That doesn't mean some haven't also adopted some American gang culture here too.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Moonlight Graham

[Cannucklehead]

21 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

But...but....but...Trump !   You can always blame the Americans later...it's the Canadian way.

They are your refugees...enjoy them to the max and be sure to pay the bill....gladly.

And yours as well.  Dumping off your problems on everyone else is America's biggest problem.  

Edited November 18, 2019 by Cannucklehead

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

And yours as well.  Dumping off your problems on everyone else is America's biggest problem.  

 

Your problems are your own.....go bomb some more Syrians and Libyans !

...and don't forget to screw Haiti some more too.

Edited November 18, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Cannucklehead]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Your problems are your own.....go bomb some more Syrians and Libyans !

And Iraqis?  

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Cannucklehead said:

And Iraqis?  

 

Of course....Canada has sanctioned and bombed Iraq since 1991....Iraqi refugees followed.

 

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

 

I'm fine with giving refugees a chance, no matter where you're from or your income level or education/skills when you get here.  But if you can't make it economically in Canada after a certain period, you should be forced to leave and be resettled in a developing country where you can seek refuge and won't drag the country down nearly as much if at all.

 

Dream on, that's not gonna happen in loonie leftist Canada, self defeating Canada drags itself down.

[scribblet]

15 hours ago, eyeball said:

Globalization and policies that were conducive towards conflict and of course climate change.

Why on Earth do you people still believe being disengenuous is always the correct course of action?

Not really, the people coming to Canada illegally are coming from the U.S. who where originally from Haiti, that is a hopeless sh.t hole, even before the earthquake, which we didn't cause.   They also come from other sh.t hole countries that are not that way due to anything Canada has done, they are not 'climate refugees', they want our benefits and maybe a job.  Either way, it is costing us dearly, not just financially but costing people here a chance for a place in a shelter and diverting money that could be used for them, among other things.  

While the U.S. may have felt obligated to take in Vietnamese refugees for instance,  Canada has no such obligation, other than helping out humanity as much as they can.   We have to be pragmatic, most of Canada is not inhabitable, more people, more pollution etc.  and the lifeboat will only hold so many, overcrowd it then all will drown. 

[Rue]

16 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

What a bunch of tripe.

We don't have any control over whether or not shithole countries choose to be shithole countries and have civil wars or start wars with other countries. Globalization and climate change aren't acceptable reasons for mass migration.

Canada is in a position to take in refugees, we just aren't in a position to have free medicare and vast social spending anymore.

Global migration can  directly triggered by draught,forest fires,  flood and earthquakes. Whether those environmental phenomena  are caused by global warming or not I will avoid a debate on but they have always triggered mass movements of people and wildlife. So of course have wars and disease. That said blaming Canada for the decisions of dictators overseas is a tad simplistic,. Sure W=we may by our policies aid Lavalin and other corrupt companies to exploit third and fourth world countries and we do brain drain them which I believe  is Eye's point- but are we 100% to blame? That concept we are 100% to blame unintentuiinally  creates guilt reaction policies that patronize and  recycle the concept that we are exploiting helpless savages.

Its time we understand the complexity of international and domestic policies is far more complex that portraying more than half the world as ignorant exploited savages That very concept is racist and yet promulgated by leftists. Simply painting people as stupid masses being exploited perpetuates the racist myth of third and fourth world people  as stupid, brainless, choiceless baboons. Relationships that exploit unfairly require people not just in first world nations but third and fourth world nations sell out people for profit and self interest,

Robert Mugabe was no victim. Neither are most of the corrupt dictators. Please do not tell me its impossible for a third or fourth world country's leader(s)n  to engage in beneficial policies for their people.. Politicians and leaders have choices. Whether they choose to make benevolent or self serving ones depends on in the end the individual moral choices people with power over others make.  So I would argue the propensity for humans to become corrupted and selfish is far more complicated than simplistic theories induced by guilt. Pity and guilt are wasted emotions. These emotions do not aid equalization or balancing of power-they do the exact opposite. because victimhood is too often used as an excuse to justify being corrupt, violent, or criminal or terrorist in behaviour.  

Edited November 18, 2019 by Rue

[eyeball]

43 minutes ago, Rue said:

That said blaming Canada for the decisions of dictators overseas is a tad simplistic,.

Canada is like a friend that lets friends drive drunk. There's nothing complicated about it.

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Canada is like a friend that lets friends drive drunk. There's nothing complicated about it.

Oh please.  The drunk driver bears the largest portion of responsibility.  Quit trying to make out like Canada can "control" and is responsible for the rest of the world.  

[Cannucklehead]

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Of course....Canada has sanctioned and bombed Iraq since 1991....Iraqi refugees followed.

 

Iraq refugees followed into Syria and some of them formed isis because someone claimed they had wmd's and bombed their country to the stone age.  But yeah, Canada's fault.