What to do about China

[cannuck]

On 1/20/2021 at 12:11 PM, Argus said:

I would disagree that Trump had any concerns about the future - or present - of the USA. His sole concern has always been himself. He simply seized upon some of the longstanding grievances people had with regard to trade, the economic deterioration of middle America, and immigration to get elected. But there's no evidence he ever cared about any of this nor ever did anything about any of it either.

Perhaps his biggest cruelty was in making middle America, so long ignored by the coastal elites, think he cared about them and was going to go to bat for them. I equate him with those heartless Nigerian scammers who find some fat girl on a dating site and start romancing her with lies only to drain her bank account and then dump her.

I get your dislike for Trump.  To me, ANYONE who is non-productive and especially someone who lives off of the avails of speculation is simply dog feces to scrape off of one's shoes.  Property developers who build nothing productive are one short step above the bottom of that barrel.  So, I am a long way from a Trump worshipper.  However, you are trying to judge a deeply flawed individual with standards that could apply only to a completely sane and stable person.  When you listen to what he said, and watch what he tried to do, I have to believe that there was SOME essence of intention to do something good behind at least some of it.

What I really DID like about Trump is that he told everyone whatever he was thinking.  I was probably his ego thinking he was beyond reproach, but it was so refreshing to simply hear what the leader of the most dangerous country on the planet was thinking - right or wrong, true of false, good or bad.   While you may think (and you may be right) that he gave false hope to "middle Americans" what he did do was get them thinking about and involved in the political process.  He put issues on the table that they actually DID discuss constantly among themselves - he just made the narrative very public.  The Big Lie for the last many decades was that the USA was some kind of peaceful, happy bunch of left-of-center people coming together as one great melting pot singing Kumbaya in perfect harmony.  Trump exposed that, and until the USA deals with this reality, it is doomed to go nowhere quietly.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

What I really DID like about Trump is that he told everyone whatever he was thinking.

That's what everyone liked about him. Or at least, what those who liked him liked about him. I'd love to have a politician who says what he thinks. But I think the only honest messages he communicated were the insults he directed at people he didn't like.

For example, all those illegals coming in that he was going to put a stop to. There's more than enough evidence that he hired illegals at all his job sites to question whether he actually gave a damn about this vs was 'speaking his mind' in the same way a sales guy speaks to a client. That was not a spur of the moment thing to say. He's admitted that. He intended to say it before he got down there. 

Likewise his whining about Chinese and foreign imports. He bought Chinese steel and other cheap materials for all his businesses. All that mattered to him was what cost the least, and he certainly never showed any preference for American made stuff.

I also think he was flat out lying through his teeth whenever he talked about religion, or about gun rights, or about abortion, none of which he ever gave a damn about in his long, public life. So to my mind, this is not a guy who 'speaks his mind' but a compulsive liar and lifelong sales guy who will tell you whatever he thinks you want to hear.

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

 The Big Lie for the last many decades was that the USA was some kind of peaceful, happy bunch of left-of-center people coming together as one great melting pot singing Kumbaya in perfect harmony.  Trump exposed that, and until the USA deals with this reality, it is doomed to go nowhere quietly.

Trump doesn't like foreigners and doesn't like minorities. He's not alone in that. But most of his life he was a registered Democrat. He might have exposed the cracks in American society, but rather than doing anything to help he just made them wider and deeper.

[bush_cheney2004]

Trump is gone...maybe Biden can help Canada's weak-ass prime minister do something "about China", 'cause Trudeau can't do anything so far.  China will buy all that KXL pipeline for scrap.

[Cannucklehead]

12 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Trump is gone...maybe Biden can help Canada's weak-ass prime minister do something "about China", 'cause Trudeau can't do anything so far.  China will buy all that KXL pipeline for scrap.

Maybe they can set up hidden bank accounts in china like trump to facilitate the transactions.   

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Cannucklehead said:

Maybe they can set up hidden bank accounts in china like trump to facilitate the transactions.   

 

Maybe....'cause Trudeau can't do jack.   Even his GG choice (Payette) just blew up into his blackface.

[Cannucklehead]

18 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Maybe....'cause Trudeau can't do jack.   Even his GG choice (Payette) just blew up into his blackface.

Yeah he should have picked from trumps list.   They weren't in prison when she was appointed.  Too late now.  

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Cannucklehead said:

Yeah he should have picked from trumps list.   They weren't in prison when she was appointed.  Too late now.  

 

China is glad you picked Trudeau....he is the weakest PM in Canadian history.    China will continue to kick his ass.

[Cannucklehead]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

China is glad you picked Trudeau....he is the weakest PM in Canadian history.    China will continue to kick his ass.

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/trump-dines-with-china-s-president-at-mar-a-lago-915826243945

 

He should invite him over for a dinner to discuss it and on that same day have Xi approve his daughters new clothing line to be sold in china.  

 

Canada first!  ?

[cannuck]

20 hours ago, Argus said:

That's what everyone liked about him. Or at least, what those who liked him liked about him. I'd love to have a politician who says what he thinks. But I think the only honest messages he communicated were the insults he directed at people he didn't like.

For example, all those illegals coming in that he was going to put a stop to. There's more than enough evidence that he hired illegals at all his job sites to question whether he actually gave a damn about this vs was 'speaking his mind' in the same way a sales guy speaks to a client. That was not a spur of the moment thing to say. He's admitted that. He intended to say it before he got down there. 

Likewise his whining about Chinese and foreign imports. He bought Chinese steel and other cheap materials for all his businesses. All that mattered to him was what cost the least, and he certainly never showed any preference for American made stuff.

I also think he was flat out lying through his teeth whenever he talked about religion, or about gun rights, or about abortion, none of which he ever gave a damn about in his long, public life. So to my mind, this is not a guy who 'speaks his mind' but a compulsive liar and lifelong sales guy who will tell you whatever he thinks you want to hear.

Trump doesn't like foreigners and doesn't like minorities. He's not alone in that. But most of his life he was a registered Democrat. He might have exposed the cracks in American society, but rather than doing anything to help he just made them wider and deeper.

Again, as I said, a DEEPLY flawed individual...BUT:  I have always believed we elect politicians in the hopes they will represent us, our concerns, our fears, our needs, etc.   It would seem that Trump did indeed reflect his adopted constituents.  I can only guess at what he really DID believe vs. what he said he believed.

[Argus]

Diane Francis has an interesting take on the weird story of how we contracted with a Chinese company to produce vaccine. Needless to say, that got nowhere, mainly because the Chinese refused to send us anything to study. This story updates that with reasons which might or might not be true. However, it would explain the sudden drastic demotion of our foreign affairs minister. No one has ever suggested why he was demoted from a plum job to one of those cabinet positions you put newbs in. It would also explain why we were so late in contracting for vaccines, and tried to make up for it by contracting with every pharmaceutical company in the world working on one.

An expert in the pharmaceutical world, who asked to remain anonymous, then contacted me and related a story that is making the rounds in the industry and political circles. According to the source, who doesn’t have direct knowledge of how the events transpired, a Chinese businessman who’s close to Trudeau suggested that Canada buy vaccines from China.

According to this story, Trudeau ordered them, while delaying deals with American companies that were also working on a vaccine. Then, when Trudeau asked for the vaccine to be delivered so Canada could start testing it, Chinese officials demanded that Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou, who’s being held in Vancouver on an extradition request from the United States, be released first. After that, the entire deal fell apart.

The story may speak more to industry perceptions of Trudeau’s handling of the file than actual events. But if true, it explains the sudden demotion of Foreign Affairs Minister François-Philippe Champagne, who’s done nothing but capitulate to China. It’s worth noting that Champagne, like Trudeau, is a protege of former Liberal prime minister Jean Chrétien, the county’s biggest China appeaser and apologist.

https://financialpost.com/diane-francis/diane-francis-was-the-botched-vaccine-roll-out-a-result-of-trudeau-placing-too-much-faith-in-china?fbclid=IwAR1RsEKPrs5D_MqoZP5DpPxAtw9jCb_SRzMjCulAnWJk_lQgVQBRT2_O6L4

Edited January 23, 2021 by Argus

[cannuck]

18 hours ago, Argus said:

Diane Francis has an interesting take on the weird story of how we contracted with a Chinese company

https://financialpost.com/diane-francis/diane-francis-was-the-botched-vaccine-roll-out-a-result-of-trudeau-placing-too-much-faith-in-china?fbclid=IwAR1RsEKPrs5D_MqoZP5DpPxAtw9jCb_SRzMjCulAnWJk_lQgVQBRT2_O6L4

Thanks for the link.  Geez, what a downer.  When I though the little tur...uh...TRUdeau had screwed up everything he possibly could, I find he has taken his incompetence, arrogance and corruption to a new low.

Oh, Canada!    eh?

[Army Guy]

4 hours ago, cannuck said:

Thanks for the link.  Geez, what a downer.  When I though the little tur...uh...TRUdeau had screwed up everything he possibly could, I find he has taken his incompetence, arrogance and corruption to a new low.

Oh, Canada!    eh?

So why is it so many Canadians can not see that, in fact according to a majority of them the Liberals have handled the pandemic fairly well. Are most Canadians blind to the real world ? or are we not as smart as we think we are ? being sucked down the leftist rabbit hole one by one, by our addiction to socialist programs.. 

[Argus]

7 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

So why is it so many Canadians can not see that, in fact according to a majority of them the Liberals have handled the pandemic fairly well. Are most Canadians blind to the real world ? or are we not as smart as we think we are ? being sucked down the leftist rabbit hole one by one, by our addiction to socialist programs.. 

Most Canadians pay little attenton to the news or to politics. All they really know is they're being paid a lot of money and that makes them happy.

It's like health care. Health care has been bad for decades, but nobody cared enough to make it an election issue. Now people are whining because LTC homes are crowded and there aren't enough doctors. But that's been the very obvious case for decades without them saying a thing about it. People cared more about Trudeau legalizing pot than the state of our health care system. Same goes for provincial elections.  We haven't built a new hospital in thirty years and people can spend months if not years trying to find a family doctor but no one cared enough that it became an election issue.

[cannuck]

11 hours ago, Argus said:

Most Canadians pay little attenton to the news or to politics. All they really know is they're being paid a lot of money and that makes them happy.

They may not pay conscious attention to the news or politics (the mere existence of our government being proof) but the media is about their only source of information.  Since LPC scavenged $2.5 billion from the taxpayers to bribe the sole source, (along with hundred$ of billion$ in direct payments to their target audience) the outcome was and is secure.

[Michael Hardner]

51 minutes ago, cannuck said:

1. They may not pay conscious attention to the news or politics (the mere existence of our government being proof) but the media is about their only source of information. 

 

2. Since LPC scavenged $2.5 billion from the taxpayers to bribe the sole source, (along with hundred$ of billion$ in direct payments to their target audience) the outcome was and is secure.

1. The alternative seems worse, ie. Getting information directly and exclusively from the government.

2. The press has historically been subsidized by taxpayers, and seen as an important service that needs support.  If you have an alternative, please suggest it.

 

My counter example for you: the National Post and Globe and Mail who have been happy to bite the hand that feeds them.  The SNC Lavalin scandal was broken by the latter.

[cannuck]

35 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. The alternative seems worse, ie. Getting information directly and exclusively from the government.

2. The press has historically been subsidized by taxpayers, and seen as an important service that needs support.  If you have an alternative, please suggest it.

My counter example for you: the National Post and Globe and Mail who have been happy to bite the hand that feeds them.  The SNC Lavalin scandal was broken by the latter.

1.  Pretty much EXACTLY how the Communist Broadcasting Corporation works now.  Before you get all wound up over the semantics: it is state owned and spews endless propaganda and pure BS.   Glasnost and Perestroika have not touched it at all, yet.

2.  The alternative is obvious: an actual free and independent press, 100% prevented from taking ANY kind of revenue from government sources.  Easy thing to do.  Report of public service announcements, interview politicians, but ZERO funding in ANY form allowed.    Yes, that starts with disbanding the CBC or trying to sell it off to an independent buyer.   I am still PO'd big time that Harper did not do this.

I will grant you that the Post the the Glob and Knob once in a while gets things right, but I have also been deeply involved with a very important story decades ago that they got 100% wrong (most by listening to the Manchester Guardian instead of bothering to verify the facts of the story).   I blame that more on the Toronto elitist attitude that discounts the ROC completely.

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by cannuck

[cannuck]

3 minutes ago, cannuck said:

1. oops, wrong button!

 

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by cannuck

[Michael Hardner]

21 minutes ago, cannuck said:

1.  Pretty much EXACTLY how the Communist Broadcasting Corporation works now.  Before you get all wound up over the semantics: it is state owned and spews endless propaganda and pure BS.   Glasnost and Perestroika have not touched it at all, yet.

2.  The alternative is obvious: an actual free and independent press, 100% prevented from taking ANY kind of revenue from government sources. 

3. Easy thing to do. 

4. Report of public service announcements, interview politicians, but ZERO funding in ANY form allowed.    Yes, that starts with disbanding the CBC or trying to sell it off to an independent buyer.   I am still PO'd big time that Harper did not do this.

5. I will grant you that the Post the the Glob and Knob once in a while gets things right, but I have also been deeply involved with a very important story decades ago that they got 100% wrong (most by listening to the Manchester Guardian instead of bothering to verify the facts of the story).   I blame that more on the Toronto elitist attitude that discounts the ROC completely.

 

1. Your exaggeration here is obvious.  I'll just leave it alone.
2. This is very high concept.  Also you don't want government to fund the press, but are you ok with lobby groups to do so at a loss ?
3. Not easy to do as the "truth" isn't profitable to print.
4. The CBC holds too much popular support, which is why Harper couldn't touch it.
5. Elitism is a problem, and always has been.

 

But the fact is that information isn't profitable to sell anymore and you haven't provided much to consider by way of solution.  Even if you think the CBC is pro-government propaganda, the funding of MSM and the problems of media in this era are separate and wouldn't be solved by a CBC sell-off.

EDIT: I realize that this is thread drift and we should be talking about China.  I'll stop this now.

[cannuck]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

But the fact is that information isn't profitable to sell anymore and you haven't provided much to consider by way of solution.  Even if you think the CBC is pro-government propaganda, the funding of MSM and the problems of media in this era are separate and wouldn't be solved by a CBC sell-off.

You are presenting a defeatist excuse to do nothing when there is a very large problem to solve.  Reality is: when you provide subsidies, those given the privilege to exploit it will do so.  True in ag, industry and of course - information.

State-owned media ANYWHERE on this planet ranges from a little bit biased (BBC, al Jazeera) to somewhere in the middle (CBC) to the absolute extreme (Pravda...now VGTRK and CCTV - plus most of everything else in China).  Just because we haven't reached the extreme of genuine dictatorships there is no excuse for us to tolerate this half-measure that pukes away tax dollars at a staggering rate.

I agree as to the issue of other lobbies being able to control information.   The whole dotcom billionaire into social media information gateways is a perfectly good example.   The solution to that has far more to do with how we manage our economy (the economic ability to GET into this position is a result of believing the wealth re-distribution of speculative gain is a legitimate way to manage an economy...and it is very much NOT and results in concentrations of unearned wealth into idle, non-productive - in fact predatory - hands).   

[Argus]

Came across this piece in the American version of The Spectator. I don't for a moment think this isn't going on in Canada, especially where we have no real laws and a government which wouldn't enforce them if we did.

On Thursday, Gang Chen, a professor and researcher at MIT, was arrested and charged for ‘hiding’ work he did with the Chinese government while also receiving a grant from the US Department of Energy for his work on nanotechnology.

In 2016, Chen sent an email to himself from his MIT account which appears to be notes on how to best promote Chinese scientific and economic development. The email reads:

‘1. promote chinese collaboration

2. China places innovation (scientific) as key and core not fashion [sic], but because we must do it, from historic trend as well from our stage

3. our economy is no. 2, but from technology (structure of economy) and human

resources, we are far from no. 2

4. we are paying big price in environment, not sustainable, as well as from labor cost

5. environment protection and development in same place, environment even higher, clean energy if higher cost, reduce steel, cement. We must count on technology, cannot grow as past

6. communist 18th convention, scientific innovation placed at core. We realize not just independent innovation; but also internationalize to plan for and facilitate. Closed door innovation does not work; innovation as driving force’

https://spectator.us/topic/chinese-whispers-american-colleges-ccp/

[Argus]

Oh look, Canada is so nice we're helping to train Chinese police. In Canada. Yes, yes, it might be an espionage risk, but so what?

British Columbia’s police academy has a growing international police-training program tailor-made for China’s Public Security Bureau that critics say is a threat to the country’s security and common values.

The Justice Institute of BC (JIBC) has accepted close to 2,000 Chinese law enforcement students, recruits and officials, plus dozens of Chinese state judges, to its purported education and training programs, since 2013.

https://www.tricitynews.com/bc-news/chinese-police-training-in-bc-an-espionage-risk-critics-say-3291155

[Petros]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

Oh look, Canada is so nice we're helping to train Chinese police. In Canada. Yes, yes, it might be an espionage risk, but so what?

British Columbia’s police academy has a growing international police-training program tailor-made for China’s Public Security Bureau that critics say is a threat to the country’s security and common values.

The Justice Institute of BC (JIBC) has accepted close to 2,000 Chinese law enforcement students, recruits and officials, plus dozens of Chinese state judges, to its purported education and training programs, since 2013.

https://www.tricitynews.com/bc-news/chinese-police-training-in-bc-an-espionage-risk-critics-say-3291155

We need a leader with a spine. Trudeau is ineffective, and not respected.

[Argus]

So guess who is in charge of processing visas for Canada? A multinational company whose majority shareholder is ... CHINA! We are assured that the shareholders - in effect, the owners of the company -- have no access to visa information. You can take such assurances for what they're worth.

And in China, the visas are processed by a subcontractor owned by the Beijing police in a building owned by the police, by Chinese employees who are members of the Communist Party. Again, we're 'assured' that they have no access to the data.

LOL

This government has no conception of security, either in-person or electronic.

Chinese police own a company that collects details of people applying for visas to Canada and numerous other countries, giving Beijing security services a direct stake in the processing of private information provided by people planning travel outside China.

Beijing Shuangxiong Foreign Service Company, which operates the Canadian visa-application centre in the Chinese capital, is owned by the Beijing Municipal Public Security Bureau, a Globe and Mail investigation has found. And at least some of the people working inside the centre are members of the Communist Party, recruited from a school that trains the next generation of party elite.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-canadas-visa-application-centre-in-beijing-run-by-chinese-police/

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, Argus said:

1. This government has no conception of security, either in-person or electronic.

2. Beijing Shuangxiong Foreign Service Company, which operates the Canadian visa-application centre in the Chinese capital, is owned by the Beijing Municipal Public Security Bureau, a Globe and Mail investigation has found. And at least some of the people working inside the centre are members of the Communist Party, recruited from a school that trains the next generation of party elite.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-canadas-visa-application-centre-in-beijing-run-by-chinese-police/

1a. Well, these things are done according to a process.  Unless we know that the Liberals tinkered with that process, we can assume that they followed it.  And then we can ask..
1b. ... huh ? ?   

Kudos to the Globe & Mail... gee how did The Rebel, Canada Proud and Post Millennial miss this ?!?

2. Ok, well let's see where this goes.  It could have an explanation... *could.  And I assume it's only Chinese people applying for visas that they would process ?  In which case, China would have to know and approve anyway ?  I don't think they let people just leave yet.

Also pertinent is that other western countries use this company, and that Canada has to partner with a Chinese company to do this at all - according to the article.

[Argus]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1a. Well, these things are done according to a process.  Unless we know that the Liberals tinkered with that process, we can assume that they followed it.  And then we can ask..
1b. ... huh ? ?   

Kudos to the Globe & Mail... gee how did The Rebel, Canada Proud and Post Millennial miss this ?!?

2. Ok, well let's see where this goes.  It could have an explanation... *could.  And I assume it's only Chinese people applying for visas that they would process ?  In which case, China would have to know and approve anyway ?  I don't think they let people just leave yet.

Also pertinent is that other western countries use this company, and that Canada has to partner with a Chinese company to do this at all - according to the article.

The process is whatever the government of the day says it is. It's been five years now. Too late to be blaming previous governments - not that the Liberals don't do that constantly, anyway. I still see Mike Harris blamed for the state of Ontario's education and health care systems.

The multinational company has China as a majority owner. ALL visa data being processed by it from multiple countries is going to be viewed by them no matter what the mouthpieces for the company say. Why do you think they invested in this company? Why do you think the Beijing police want to process visas?

As to why the Rebel, Canada Proud, and the Post Millennial didn't get the story, gee, maybe they're not collecting millions and millions of dollars from the government like the Globe is.