Most Canadians say Canada is Broken

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, DrYouth said:

I spent some time in South Africa recently...

That country is broken.

Canada is among the least broken countries in existence right now.

That's not to say it doesn't have flaws and problems... but the whining about our country being broken is about the only thing broken about our country.

It was always broken, right from the beginning.

Canada was not born on 1 July 1867.    

This shotgun marriage imposed by the British Crown was in place long before.

13 September 1759 is the real Canada Day. 

It has been broken ever since, because it was taken as a war prize by force of arms, and nobody has ever put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

[Dougie93]

Canada is just like South Africa. 

Canada is a racist apartheid state right down in the bones.

The only difference is that in South Africa, the Africans vastly outnumber the Europeans

Whereas in Canada, the Europeans outnumber the Indians ten to one.

[Yzermandius19]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

It was always broken, right from the beginning.

Canada was not born on 1 July 1867.    

This shotgun marriage imposed by the British Crown was in place long before.

13 September 1759 is the real Canada Day. 

It has been broken ever since, because it was taken as a war prize by force of arms, and nobody has ever put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

It being broken doesn't prevent some parts of it from being a nice place to live, it just means if it wasn't for the broken country, those parts would be even nicer to live in, Confederation is holding us all back.

[Dougie93]

7 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

It being broken doesn't prevent some parts of it from being a nice place to live, it just means if it wasn't for the broken country, those parts would be even nicer to live in, Confederation is holding us all back.

Oh indeed, the issue is more that Canadians don't know the central narrative of their own history, because it was erased by the Liberals and replaced with dogma.

Thus they do not understand that Confederation is not a country and never was, it's merely a trade and defence agreement.  Which has simply  failed ; by its own terms.

In the void left by this failed state, we have the Post National State, which a totalitarian regime run by and for the entrenched interest elites.

[DrYouth]

20 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

In the void left by this failed state, we have the Post National State, which a totalitarian regime run by and for the entrenched interest elites.

Oh please... Post National Totalitarian regime...

Give me a break.

[Dougie93]

35 minutes ago, DrYouth said:

Oh please... Post National Totalitarian regime...

Give me a break.

Rally around the Liberal Party of Canada Flag and sing the Liberal Party of Canada Song then, priggish thought policing Iron Curtain against American freedom. 

I simply decline, I never swore an oath to this commie Confederation.

God save the Queen. the Maple Leaf Forever, to Hell with the Liberal Party of Canada and their Eastern Elitist dogma.

Don Cherry knows.  Bobby Orr too.

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Dougie93

[DrYouth]

26 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Rally around the Liberal Party of Canada Flag and sing the Liberal Party of Canada Song then, priggish thought policing Iron Curtain against American freedom. 

I simply decline, I never swore an oath to this commie Confederation.

God save the Queen. the Maple Leaf Forever, to Hell with the Liberal Party of Canada and their Eastern Elitist dogma.

Don Cherry knows.  Bobby Orr too.

 

I mean I catch your drift.

Certainly the left-speak gets tiresome...

But Canada is solid. It holds up.

Celebrate it whatever way you will.

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, DrYouth said:

I mean I catch your drift.

Certainly the left-speak gets tiresome...

But Canada is solid. It holds up.

Celebrate it whatever way you will.

America First.   The British Crown in North America enjoys our protection by way of the United Kingdom - United States Security Agreement.

[DrYouth]

31 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

America First.   The British Crown in North America enjoys our protection by way of the United Kingdom - United States Security Agreement.

These are the facts.

Canada has the security of it's geographic location and geopolitical allies.

Makes us soft and complacent....

And yet... nothing really broken about it.

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, DrYouth said:

These are the facts.

Canada has the security of it's geographic location and geopolitical allies.

Makes us soft and complacent....

And yet... nothing really broken about it.

Disagree, Canada is fundamentally broken, it is only America which is propping it up.

The Canadian Handmaid's Tale fantasy is laughable, where America collapses and then Canada becomes the great escape.

No, no, little Canadians, that's not how it would work. if America falls, Canada goes with us, don't kid yourselves.

[DrYouth]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Disagree, Canada is fundamentally broken, it is only America which is propping it up.

The Canadian Handmaid's Tale fantasy is laughable, where America collapses and then Canada becomes the great escape.

No, no, little Canadians, that's not how it would work. if America falls, Canada goes with us, don't kid yourselves.

America may be propping us up.

But that is part of what makes Canada work.

We have good relations with our powerful neighbour.

This is good for us... and good for America. We are a reliable trading partner.

We send America plenty of our skilled people and accept plenty of theirs up here.

Nothing broken about it. America isn't about to fail... that's part of the fantasy as well....

They are just being Americans, as they have always been...  rumbling about their differences.... brawling on the streets.

Living liberty to a fault.

[Dougie93]

'Canada' is simply another word for Confederation.

What is the purpose of Confederation?

East-West Trade Block, National Security Pact, Territorial Sovereignty.

Keep the French in, Keep the Americans out, Keep the Indians down.

All trade is north -south with America.  National security is in a state of collapse, again, the responsibility of America.  Territorial Sovereignty is not enforced.

And the Indian Act renders Canada a racist apartheid police state where what has been done to the Indians is inevitable imposed upon all.

Doesn't protect you, doesn't protect your property, doesn't protect your rights.   Which is the core of Westphalian nation statehood

Canada is a failed state in all respects.

American corporate welfare is the only thing preventing it from descending into civil disorder.

 

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, DrYouth said:

America may be propping us up.

But that is part of what makes Canada work.

We have good relations with our powerful neighbour.

This is good for us... and good for America. We are a reliable trading partner.

We send America plenty of our skilled people and accept plenty of theirs up here.

Nothing broken about it. America isn't about to fail... that's part of the fantasy as well....

They are just being Americans, as they have always been...  rumbling about their differences.... brawling on the streets.

Living liberty to a fault.

Ye olde Canadian canard : Whatabootism

"But what aboot America which is falling apart?"

Not actually true, America is doing great, much better than Canada, any problems in America are present in Canada too, but Canada otherwise lacks all of America strength.

[DrYouth]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Ye olde Canadian canard : Whatabootism

"But what aboot America which is falling apart?"

Not actually true, America is doing great, much better than Canada, any problems in America are present in Canada too, but Canada otherwise lacks all of America strength.

I just said America was fine...

Again part of what is working for Canada is how fine America is.

Nothing broken. Nothing to complain about.

Edited November 22, 2019 by DrYouth

[Dougie93]

Another funny chestnut is Canadians prattling on about "Diversity is our strength!"

Except it's not true, Canada is largely homogeneous, America is exponentially more diverse, in all respects.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, DrYouth said:

Nothing broken. Nothing to complain about.

And yet all Canadians say is that it is broken, and all they do is complain.  Odd that.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

Bear in mind, I'm not complaining about Canada, I'm simply stating the obvious that Confederation is a failed state propped up only by American largess.

Doesn't bother me anymore.  The truth shall set you free.

[Zeitgeist]

Okay so after multiple back and forths with Dougie over his beef with Confederation, my conclusion is that, like many on here, he’s a former Canadian nationalist who feels disillusioned with the Canadian national project because of the creeping nanny welfare state, top down interventionism, and misplaced anti-Americanism, even as Canada depends too heavily on American protection.  He’s right to be critical, yet he has also sung the praises of Pierre Eliot Trudeau, who radically dismantled the Canadian military and snubbed the U.S. as hegemon, Western self-interest, and Quebec separatism, while accelerating multiculturalism, bilingualism, and leftism.  

I think the reason many of us were so awed by PET is because he seemed to have a laser clear idea of what Canada is and could be, a place not bogged down by the interests of a select few places or people in the country, the military overspending and imperialist dangers of the Cold War, or the colonial trappings of Canada as merely Britain’s outpost in North America, and he had a genuine appreciation for the far north and Canadian culture, which is part American, part English, part French, part Indigenous, part cosmopolitan/multicultural, and grounded in a sense of the struggle to communicate, distribute, service, and provide police security across a vast territory with a harsh climate.  Many today would say PET went too far in alienating the West, deescalating the military, pissing off the Americans, chumming around with Castro, and so forth.  No one would deny that he was a strong and intelligent leader with a love of the country.  It’s hard to find visionary leaders these days.  The bottom line is that if you think the Canadian nation state has something to offer the world and Canadians beyond what the provinces could offer as separate countries, what the US could offer Canadians if Canada was part of the US, or what Britain once provided Canada when our government was still partly represented in the British parliament, you’re going to have to provide a compelling vision that Canadians will support.  

We have a good thing in Canada.  Most Canadians love the country and want to keep it together as an independent entity.  In fact Canada is hugely successful, attracting millions from around the world. It is one of the best countries in which to live and work.  However, we need to wake up to the modern realities of migration pressures and global economic competitiveness. We cannot depend on the US as our primary export market or to defend our border.  We need to expand foreign markets, manage immigration more carefully in the national interest, and have a military equal to the task of defending our vast territory and growing population.  We also have to be careful that our citizens don’t become too soft and dependent on handouts, as has happened in many European countries.  We have to be careful not to pander to special interests that threaten our nationhood and spirit, both financially and ideologically.  I think Justin Trudeau’s multitude of apologies, inquiries, and promises have done some harm in that regard, even if the intent was the typical Canadian boy scout attempt to complete PET’s just society.  We don’t want to kill the giving tree or boy scout, because I think we would have bigger problems if Canada lapsed into fascism or de-Confederated.  

Dougie would prefer that Canada break up.  If Canada doesn’t address the pressure points I described, that idea will become more compelling.  If we run into economic trouble, the pressures will be exacerbated, which is why we cannot have policies that prevent resource development or make it harder to do business. I respect JT for trying to balance climate change policy with resource development interests, but we can’t pursue expensive climate policies if our largest trading partners are not implementing similar policies.  There’s a lot of ignorance out there about infrastructure like pipelines, which are safer and more environmentally friendly than transporting by truck and train.  If we can’t get our resources to market efficiently, you can forget climate policies, because the people will always put food, housing, and employment above other interests, including the nation state.  

Edited November 23, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

I am a dual citizen, my father raised me with the American Religion, I've always felt just as American as Canadian.

In the past, those two things were not in conflict.

It is simply the case that Canada and Canadians forced me to choose between  them. 

So I choose America First.

I none the less remain loyal to my oath to the British Crown in North America, I resist HM enemies and defend HM peace as a resident of British North America.

I have no fealty to Confederation and never did, nor was I ever bound to such, as Confederation is not a country, it's simply an agreement within the now defunct British Empire.

[Abies]

On 11/22/2019 at 10:18 AM, Argus said:

So you don't think being able to vote for the people who make our laws is a democratic right?

Where are you getting that from my post?

 

Judges don't make laws they strike down laws when it violates the constitution. 

 

[Nefarious Banana]

22 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I am a dual citizen, my father raised me with the American Religion, I've always felt just as American as Canadian.

In the past, those two things were not in conflict.

It is simply the case that Canada and Canadians forced me to choose between  them. 

So I choose America First.

I none the less remain loyal to my oath to the British Crown in North America, I resist HM enemies and defend HM peace as a resident of British North America.

I have no fealty to Confederation and never did, nor was I ever bound to such, as Confederation is not a country, it's simply an agreement within the now defunct British Empire.

What's your point ?

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

What's your point ?

Merely answering Zeitgeist, it is not for him to define me, I define myself.

[Guest ProudConservative]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

We have a good thing in Canada.  Most Canadians love the country and want to keep it together as an independent entity.  In fact Canada is hugely successful, attracting millions from around the world. It is one of the best countries in which to live and work.  However, we need to wake up to the modern realities of migration pressures and global economic competitiveness. We cannot depend on the US as our primary export market or to defend our border.  We need to expand foreign markets, manage immigration more carefully in the national interest, and have a military equal to the task of defending our vast territory and growing population.  We also have to be careful that our citizens don’t become too soft and dependent on handouts, as has happened in many European countries.  We have to be careful not to pander to special interests that threaten our nationhood and spirit, both financially and ideologically.  I think Justin Trudeau’s multitude of apologies, inquiries, and promises have done some harm in that regard, even if the intent was the typical Canadian boy scout attempt to complete PET’s just society.  We don’t want to kill the giving tree or boy scout, because I think we would have bigger problems if Canada lapsed into fascism or de-Confederated.

Do ya have a PHD or something? You write so well.

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

Do ya have a PHD or something? You write so well.

A masters.  Thank you for the compliment.  I don’t mean to speak for Dougie.  I’m trying to take his criticism constructively.  I’m a dual Canadian and British citizen, but as I’ve spent most of my life in Canada, my first loyalty is to Canada.  I won’t say Canada First because of the Trumpian associations.  I support Canada’s tradition of multilateralism and think that exceptionalism should be exceptional, like the notwithstanding clause.  I don’t worry about the implications of a “post-national state” because I believe people come before national identity and that a country is only as good as the values its people support.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Argus]

6 hours ago, Abies said:

Where are you getting that from my post?

Judges don't make laws they strike down laws when it violates the constitution.

Judges make laws all the time, and yes, they strike down laws which violate the constitution. But THEY get to decide what does and does not violate the constitution, and no one can question them. That means they can decide cases on their own ideological biases without regard to law, then simply find some passage to explain their decision away legally. The constitution is a rag of no value. The reason so many religious types in the US support Donald Trump is because they know this. They know the US constitution is a meaningless rag, and that all that matters is who you put in as judges. Change the judges, you change the constitution. Trump is giving them hard right judges who don't support abortion, and they figure that will end abortion rights and change a lot of other laws they don't like.