Liberals encouraging white supremacists

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Toronto van attack was not an Islamic terror attack: it was some incel and, per the link I supplied previously, considered a right-wing attack.  

There was a vehicle attack in Edmonton, in which nobody died  that was considered Islamic terror; perhaps that is the one you are thinking of.  Also covered in my links.

Danforth shooting was not considered a terror attack by authorities, only by conservatives who prefer conspiracy over facts.  Not included in my links as either alt-right or Islamic.

It was the NYC van attack that was a muslim, my bad.

I didn't even know about the Edm terrorist attack. 

The Danforth shooter was from a Pakistani muslim family. They were extremely quick to distance their religion from the attack but the statement that came from a muslim activist (Mohammed Hashim) doesn't mean squat. If he was part of a white supremacist group you'd definitely say that it was a white supremacist attack.

( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_discrimination_in_Pakistan "In 2011 religious intolerance was reported to be at its height, hundreds of minorities, women, journalists and liberals were being killed by Islamist fundamentalist extremists, while the Government remained mostly a silent spectator, often only making statements which condemned the ruthless acts of violence by the extremists but taking no real concrete action against them.^[16][17][18]  )

You still need to make a list of terrorist attacks by white supremacists in Canada over the period of time covered by the attacks that I mentioned or you're liar.

[dialamah]

7 minutes ago, Argus said:

This situation has never arisen before, so don't try to use previous generations as an example. The immigrants coming in then weren't Muslims, they didn't get social assistance, and multiculturalism wasn't an accepted thing. There was also no internet, no movies and TV and daily papers from home, no instant communication from home, and no easy back and forth trips.

Are you kidding me?  When we incarcerated Japanese in WW2, there was radio, TV, international flights, and mail/newspapers "from home".   The anti-Japanese rhetoric of the time revolved around Japanese being too "foreign" to integrate and be loyal to Canada, prone to raping women and so fanatic that they'd choose to die for a chance to kill Westerners.  Sound familiar?  

[dialamah]

9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The Danforth shooter was from a Pakistani muslim family. They were extremely quick to distance their religion from the attack but the statement that came from a muslim activist (Mohammed Hashim) doesn't mean squat.

Several accounts months after the attack described a significant history of mental health issues.  You should check into that.  Or stick with the conspiracy, whatever. 

12 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

If he was part of a white supremacist group you'd definitely say that it was a white supremacist attack.

Would I?  That seems unlikely, especially if it required ignoring what investigators, family and others who actually knew him said, in favor of claiming a mass conspiracy to mislead Canadians.

 

 

[dialamah]

18 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You still need to make a list of terrorist attacks by white supremacists in Canada over the period of time covered by the attacks that I mentioned 

I don't have to do anything, especially as I've already provided links.  If you are took lazy/slow to read/understand them, not really my problem.

20 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

or you're liar

Why would I care if a random conspiritard on the internet calls me a liar?

[Argus]

27 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Are you kidding me?  When we incarcerated Japanese in WW2, there was radio, TV, international flights, and mail/newspapers "from home". 

Uh, no, there wasn't any TV. There were no international flights, and mail and newspapers would take weeks to arrive. No phones either, in case you're wondering.

27 minutes ago, dialamah said:

The anti-Japanese rhetoric of the time revolved around Japanese being too "foreign" to integrate and be loyal to Canada, prone to raping women and so fanatic that they'd choose to die for a chance to kill Westerners.  Sound familiar?  

You're trying to compare military propaganda during wartime to the long-observed behaviour of Muslims around the world and saying since the military propaganda was wrong the observed behaviour of Muslims around the world must be discarded. There's no logic to that.

I'm not aware of any country on this planet in which Muslims are either the majority or are a substantial minority which does not have Islamic religious violence.

[DogOnPorch]

14 minutes ago, Argus said:

Uh, no, there wasn't any TV. There were no international flights, and mail and newspapers would take weeks to arrive. No phones either, in case you're wondering.

You're trying to compare military propaganda during wartime to the long-observed behaviour of Muslims around the world and saying since the military propaganda was wrong the observed behaviour of Muslims around the world must be discarded. There's no logic to that.

I'm not aware of any country on this planet in which Muslims are either the majority or are a substantial minority which does not have Islamic religious violence.

 

You've got to remember that to some folks, Iwo Jima was American aggression against the peaceful Japanese just minding their own business.

[WestCanMan]

30 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Several accounts months after the attack described a significant history of mental health issues.  You should check into that.  Or stick with the conspiracy, whatever. 

Would I?  That seems unlikely, especially if it required ignoring what investigators, family and others who actually knew him said, in favor of claiming a mass conspiracy to mislead Canadians.

So, by your logic, if a white supremacist has a history of mental health issues then he can do an attack and you'll be of the opinion that it didn't have anything to do with his white supremacist affiliations? I call TOTAL bullshit.

The Danforth shooter was raised in a religious family from the world's most religiously-bigoted country and he did what good jihadis do. It's not like it's a really long way between the dots, and they form a straight line. This is no conspiracy, it's obvious.

[WestCanMan]

36 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I don't have to do anything, especially as I've already provided links.  If you are took lazy/slow to read/understand them, not really my problem.

Why would I care if a random conspiritard on the internet calls me a liar?

Where are your links to all the white supremacist terror attacks in Canada?

[DogOnPorch]

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Where are your links to all the white supremacist terror attacks in Canada?

 

The prime example...yea olde mosque shoot-up...has some big questions unanswered. Like why were there reports of TWO gunmen yelling Allahu Akbar? Why was a person apparently giving first aide to the wounded ARRESTED? Etc...

The rumor I heard was gay lovers not accepted by Islam...but hey...rumors, yah know.

Not that we'll EVER know for sure...he was a white nationalist Trump supporter...or else!

Edited August 15, 2019 by DogOnPorch

[dialamah]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

Uh, no, there wasn't any TV.

Good catch.  My mom talked about watching the news about war, I assumed TV, but likely she meant those newsreels at movies. 

11 minutes ago, Argus said:

There were no international flights, and mail and newspapers would take weeks to arrive. No phones either, in case you're wondering.

KLM started operations in 1919.  International flights were available for.those who could afford it in the 1930s.  US commercial airlines repurposed themselves for the war effort; Roosevelt was the first president to fly internationally in 1943.  

Telephone service was well established in Canada by second world war.  My mother's house had a phone; she talked about phoning an aunt.

26 minutes ago, Argus said:

You're trying to compare military propaganda during wartime t

Propaganda, yes, fuelled by the media of the time, using the same themes as are used against Muslims today.  Eventually the public demanded a solution, along with some politicians, while others objected.  But the fear mongering won out and Japanese were rounded up. 

Do some research on propaganda: the same themes are repeated on the way to demonizing a group.  "They aren't like us"; "they're so different they threaten our culture, our way of life"; "they'll rape our women and make slaves of us", "they are invaders who we must control or eliminate."

Do some research.

[Hudson Jones]

11 hours ago, dialamah said:

Islamic terrorism is pretty irrelevant in Canada, yet conservative media (and posters here) make a big deal of any misdeed by any Muslim anywhere in the world, and prophesy dire consequences to Canada.  

Boom.

Islamic terrorism is a lot less relevant in Canada than white supremacists.

It's hilarious watching the cries that something is being "over-hyped". Especially from someone like the original poster. 

[dialamah]

44 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The Danforth shooter was raised in a religious family from the world's most religiously-bigoted country and he did what good jihadis do. It's not like it's a really long way between the dots, and they form a straight line. This is no conspiracy, it's obvious.

According to his family, he wasn't religious and had to be forced to go to Mosque.  Link.

Here's a link that summarizes a 23-page report released by the police a year after the shooting.  Mental issues documented from 1998, no connection to extreme Islam or any other extremist group, a couple of searches related to incel murderers in Toronto and California.  If you don't want to accept that he was psychotic then you may have to put him under the same right-wing umbrellas as incels.

Edited August 15, 2019 by dialamah

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

I don't have to do anything, especially as I've already provided links.  If you are took lazy/slow to read/understand them, not really my problem.

Why would I care if a random conspiritard on the internet calls me a liar?

The links that you posted are mostly muslim terrorist attacks. You didn't post any by 'white supremacists'. Are you calling muslim terrorist attacks 'right wing'?

 

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

According to his family, he wasn't religious and had to be forced to go to Mosque.  Link.

Here's a link that summarizes a 23-page report released by the police a year after the shooting.  Mental issues documented from 1998, no connection to extreme Islam or any other extremist group, a couple of searches related to incel murderers in Toronto and California.  If you don't want to accept that he was psychotic then you may have to put him under the same right-wing umbrellas as incels.

"According to his family". OMG the muslims just gave proof positive right there that islam had nothing to do with it, right dialamah? You're so on the ball. I think I'll get all my info from you from now on. (Obviously that was sarcasm, don't let it go to your head).

Incels aren't 'white supremacists', they're nutjobs. You don't get to just say that every single attack that was ever carried out by non-muslims is a 'white supremacist/right wing' terror attack. LMAO.

And even if you count every non-muslim terrorist attack, the 1% of the population that is muslim still commits more terrorist attacks than the other 99% of the population. Is that a problem dialamah?

[dialamah]

4 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The links that you posted are mostly muslim terrorist attacks. You didn't post any by 'white supremacists'. Are you calling muslim terrorist attacks 'right wing'?

Here is one link, talking about Bissonette and Bourque as right wing extremists, total death count 16.

Here is the second, including Minassion as right wing extremist, death count 3.

Total: 19 people since 2014 killed by right wing extremists.

[dialamah]

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

According to his family". OMG the muslims just gave proof positive right there that islam had nothing to do with it, right dialamah? 

You claimed he was religious, based on nothing moe than him being Muslim.  His family says he was not.   I should believe you over his family?  Why would I?  Why would anyone? 

10 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Incels aren't 'white supremacists',

White Supremacists, anti-Gov types (Justin Bourque) and incels are all classed as extreme right-wing, as per investigators who know what they are talking about (per links already provided).  That's not you, despite your conviction that your wile conspiracies make any kind of sense.

[WestCanMan]

5 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Here is one link, talking about Bissonette and Bourque as right wing extremists, total death count 16.

Here is the second, including Minassion as right wing extremist, death count 3.

Total: 19 people since 2014 killed by right wing extremists.

Bourque, from your own link:

Quote

Court had previously heard a videotaped statement in which Bourque told police he wanted to encourage people to rise up against the “soldiers” that defend federal institutions and protect the rich from the poor.

Sorry dialamah, that's not a right-wing attack at all. Accusing the government of 'protecting the rich from the poor' is a leftist sentiment through and through. 

Miassion is not a right-winger or white supremacist at all, even from your own source. You're ofer 2 so far.

Bissonette: 1. The only one. I even looked on wiki. Here's their list of islamist attacks in Canada:

Quote

 

• December 14, 1999 - Ahmed Ressam, known as the Millennium Bomber, was arrested upon entering the United States by a ferry from Victoria, British Columbia. He was smuggling explosives in his car from Canada as part of a plot to bomb the Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) on New Year's Eve 1999, as part of the foiled 2000 millennium attack plots.
• 2006 - In the 2006 Ontario terrorism plot, Canadian counter-terrorism forces arrested 18 terrorists (dubbed the "Toronto 18") inspired by al-Qaeda. They were accused of planning to detonate truck bombs, to open fire in a crowded area, and to storm the Canadian Broadcasting Centre, the Canadian Parliament building, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) headquarters, and the parliamentary Peace Tower, to take hostages and to behead the Prime Minister and other leaders.
• August 2010 - Misbahuddin Ahmed of Ottawa was arrested (later convicted in July 2014) of knowingly facilitating a terrorist activity and participation in the activities of a terrorist group.^[11][12]
• 2013 - Chiheb Esseghaier and Raed Jaser of Montreal and Toronto, respectively, charged as part of an alleged Al Qaeda plot to derail a New York to Toronto train on the Canadian side of the border. Alleged plot was not imminent.^{[citation needed]} Canadian Muslims helped to foil the alleged plot.^[13] The suspects said they were arrested based on their appearance.^[14][15]
• October 20, 2014 – On October 20, 2014, two Canadian Forces members were hit by Martin Couture-Rouleau, a recent Muslim convert in what is known as the 2014 Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu ramming attack. Warrant officer Patrice Vincent died of his injuries. Couture-Rouleau was eventually gunned down and killed.^[16]
• October 22, 2014 - Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, a convert to Islam, fatally shot Corporal Nathan Cirillo, a Canadian soldier on ceremonial sentry duty at the Canadian National War Memorial in Ottawa, and then forced his way into Canada's parliament building, where he had a shootout with parliament security personnel. He was shot 31 times and died at the scene. Zehaf-Bibeau made a video prior to the attack in which he expressed his motives as being related "to Canada's foreign policy and in respect of his religious beliefs."^[17][18]
• August 10, 2016 - Aaron Driver was killed in Strathroy, Ontario, in a confrontation with police after detonating an explosive in the back seat of a taxi. The confrontation followed a tip from the FBI that Driver had made a "martyrdom video" and was planning an attack on an urban area.^[19]
• September 30, 2017 - 30-year-old Abdulahi Sharif drives into Edmonton police constable Mike Chernyk then stabs him near Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton, Alberta, fleeing and later hitting four pedestrians with a rental truck during a police pursuit in the 2017 Edmonton attack.^[20][21] Police are investigating the incident as an act of terrorism and confirmed the presence of an ISIS flag in the van that struck the police officer.^[22][23] Sharif was confirmed by RCMP assistant commissioner Marlin Degrand as a Somali national known to the RCMP and Edmonton police as having past displayed signs of extremism.^[24]

Wiki:

Quote

 

• January 29, 2017 - During evening prayer at the Islamic Cultural Centre mosque in Quebec City, Quebec, one gunman entered and opened fire on Muslim worshipers killing 6 people and injuring 19 (5 critically).^[28] The gunman called police from a second location about 20 minutes after the shooting and was arrested by Quebec police without incident. The gunman, Alexandre Bissonnette from Quebec City, was inspired by extreme right-wing views on Muslims, refugees and feminists, that he shared online and at Laval University. Alexandre Bissonnette was also a supporter of Rassemblement National leader Marine Le Pen of France and Republican Party President Donald Trump of the United States.^[29][30]

So there were 7 muslim terrorist incidents with a total of 25 muslim terrorists in Canada before Bisonette's attack. Then there was another muslim terrorist attack after that.

You're down 8-1 or 26-1 depending on how you keep score.

This list still doesn't even include the Canadians who went to Syria to fight with islamic state, even though they knew that they were a terrorist organization that was publicly killing journalists and bragging about it.

(There were enough terrorists in Syria to carve out a 283,485 sq km country. That would rank 74th in the world. There were 161 countries smaller than islamic state at it's peak.)

You lose 8-1, or 26-1 depending on how you do the math.

YOU

ARE

A

LIAR. (according to wiki)

[dialamah]

CSIS director considered Misassion and Bissonette to be right wing extremists.  From my link:  CSIS Director David Vigneault told a Senate committee earlier today that his agency is very troubled by "the number of ultra right-wing extremists" active in Canada, citing the 2017 firearm attack on a Quebec City mosque and a 2018 vehicle-ramming attack in Toronto.

The Ministry of Public Safety also refers to incels as right-wing extremists,  Again, from my link:  Traditionally, in Canada, violence linked to the far-right has been sporadic and opportunistic. However, attacks perpetrated by individuals who hold extreme right-wing views and other lesser-known forms of ideological extremism can occur. A recent example is the April 2018 van attack in Toronto, Ontario, which resulted in the deaths of 10 people and alerted Canada to the dangers of the online Incel movement.

The same link includes Bourque as  a right-wing extremist:  

The Face of Right-Wing Extremism in Canada

In June 2014, Justin Bourque shot and killed three RCMP officers and injured two others in Moncton, New Brunswick. He was motivated by his extreme anti-law enforcement and anti-government beliefs. 

My original comment was specifically about the death toll of right-wing extremists vs. Islamic extremists in Canada. 

Right wing extremism encompasses various ideologies such as neo-nazism, neo-fascism, White nationalism,  White Supremacy, anti-government, patriot/sovereign citizen beliefs among others. White supremacy is a small part of the larger issue of right wing extremism.  To pretend they are significantly different would be like claiming ISIS and Al-Queda are significantly different.  

[Domitian]

7 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

And even if you count every non-muslim terrorist attack, the 1% of the population that is muslim still commits more terrorist attacks than the other 99% of the population. Is that a problem dialamah?

Only if you look at it from a very short timeline. The United States has had a long history with terrorism and very little of it had anything to do with Islam or involved Muslims.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Domitian

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Domitian said:

Only if you look at it from a very short timeline. The United States has had a long history with terrorism and very little of it had anything to do with Islam or involved Muslims.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

 

The correct answer is “yes, it’s a problem”.

We have an alarmingly high number of muslim terrorists in Canada. 

We also have a huge population of terrorist supporters here. IE people who gloss over the problem, or point elsewhere (white supremacist bogeymen for example) to distract from the issue, people who try to make false equivalency with other groups to make it seem as if muslim terrorism is just normal, etc. 

[WestCanMan]

Dialamah, it’s either 8-1 or 26-1 depending on how you do the math. YOU HAVE BEEN PROVEN TO BE A LIAR. That’s from Wikipedia, who actually tracked all the terrorist incidents. 

And 26-1 still doesn’t even count Omar Khadr and all the Canadians who went to commit genocide and/or force people into slavery for islamic state. 

You’re talking about bogeymen who might be in the closet and saying that they’re a bigger threat than the people who are already proven to be out there killing random people for islam. 

I say again, you have been proven to be a liar. 

/thread

[Shady]

10 hours ago, dialamah said:

CSIS director considered Misassion and Bissonette to be right wing extremists.  From my link:  CSIS Director David Vigneault told a Senate committee earlier today that his agency is very troubled by "the number of ultra right-wing extremists" active in Canada, citing the 2017 firearm attack on a Quebec City mosque and a 2018 vehicle-ramming attack in Toronto.

The Ministry of Public Safety also refers to incels as right-wing extremists,  Again, from my link:  Traditionally, in Canada, violence linked to the far-right has been sporadic and opportunistic. However, attacks perpetrated by individuals who hold extreme right-wing views and other lesser-known forms of ideological extremism can occur. A recent example is the April 2018 van attack in Toronto, Ontario, which resulted in the deaths of 10 people and alerted Canada to the dangers of the online Incel movement.

The same link includes Bourque as  a right-wing extremist:  

The Face of Right-Wing Extremism in Canada

In June 2014, Justin Bourque shot and killed three RCMP officers and injured two others in Moncton, New Brunswick. He was motivated by his extreme anti-law enforcement and anti-government beliefs. 

My original comment was specifically about the death toll of right-wing extremists vs. Islamic extremists in Canada. 

Right wing extremism encompasses various ideologies such as neo-nazism, neo-fascism, White nationalism,  White Supremacy, anti-government, patriot/sovereign citizen beliefs among others. White supremacy is a small part of the larger issue of right wing extremism.  To pretend they are significantly different would be like claiming ISIS and Al-Queda are significantly different.  

You’ve already been proven completely wrong, as well as an apologist for Islamic extremism.  It’s time to give up and move on.

[WestCanMan]

On 8/14/2019 at 8:07 AM, dialamah said:

Islamic terrorism is pretty irrelevant in Canada, yet conservative media (and posters here) make a big deal of any misdeed by any Muslim anywhere in the world, and prophesy dire consequences to Canada.  

While I agree that white supremacist attacks in Canada are rare, they happen more often than Islamic attacks.  And while nobody thinks all conservatives are racist, or even most conservatives, racist and white supremacist rhetoric and concepts are entering our media and culture through conservatives.  

And yet again here in this thread and the opening post, we see conservatives blaming "somebody else" for attitudes and behavior they support and encourage in every anti-immigrant and every anti-Muslim post they make. 

At the risk of being too reasonable, I would say that finger pointing is a major problem that prevents solutions.  Simplistically blaming either conservatives or liberals is stupid.  Conservatives are no more supportive of extremist behavior from White Supremacists than Liberals are supportive of extremist behavior from Islamists.  We're all on the same page with respect to murdering innocent people to make a political statement.  

You're down 8-1, as per the wiki article on Canadian Terrorist Attacks. 

If it was close I'd give you the benefit of the doubt. You made a declarative statement that was NOT CLOSE to being true, and you had no reason to believe it was true when you made it.

This was an obvious LIE. 

[dialamah]

32 minutes ago, Shady said:

You’ve already been proven completely wrong,

You wish.

32 minutes ago, Shady said:

as well as an apologist for Islamic extremism.

I condemn Islamic extremism.  I also condemn right-wing extremism, left-wing extremism and any other extremism that uses or condones violence to achieve ends.  (Including Antifa).  If there addres any apologists here, it's those who insist right wing extremism barely exists and/or is created by leftists.

32 minutes ago, Shady said:

It’s time to give up and move on.

Nah.  There's a certain satisfaction in presenting credible information and facts, even though most of the conservatives on this forum are too partisan and gullible to recognize a fact if it bit them on the butt.

Happily  I'm learning elsewhere that Conservatives aren't all so dumb.

[scribblet]

Right wing extremism barely exists in Canada, wanting better control of borders and a stable immigration system that selects who is best for Canada is not extremism, nor is it white supremacy.  That label is being applied far too frequently to people  who disagree with a liberal and is now at the forefront because of the narrative from the  Trudeau cabal.   Bernier was right when he said: 

Get ready to hear self-appointed reps of intersectionally oppressed victims tell you every day how systematically racist and intolerant Canadians are.