Bernier Steps Up on Immigration

[Argus]

Maxime Bernier has finally come out with a full out speech on immigration going well beyond earlier hints. Among his promises is to drop immigration to between 100k and 150k, put an end to illegal border crossing even if that means fencing off miles of border, outlaw birth tourism, and require potential immigrants to have face to face interviews which will include values testing, and to prioritize economic immigrants. On refugees, he said Canada needs to prioritize those immigrants who can't be safely housed in nearby countries, like Christians and Yazidis.

There's nothing in this speech for me to dislike. I have been giving serious consideration to going PPC in the upcoming election, and given this as well as the rest of the PPCs policies, including doing away with corporate welfare and inter-provincial trade barriers, I think that this year I'll be voting for the PPC.

Bernier also said in his speech that he will reduce the total intake of immigrants and refugees to between 100,000 and 150,000 annually, depending on economic circumstances, which is significantly lower than the federal Liberals’ target of 350,000 per year. He also said he will outlaw “birth tourism,” a practice in which foreign travellers come to Canada to deliver children as a way to secure citizenship. He promised to increase the proportion of economic immigrants to non-economic-class immigrants and require immigration applicants to go through face-to-face interviews to assess the extent to which they align with Canadian values.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/build-a-fence-maxime-bernier-announces-plan-by-peoples-party-to-crack-down-on-immigration/wcm/3873d4aa-28c8-4722-bd69-d0e885392263

[dialamah]

16 minutes ago, Argus said:

I think that this year I'll be voting for the PPC.

Excellent that you have a candidate that matches your political leanings.  

[scribblet]

IMO a lot of people will agree with Bernier but afraid to vote for him as it really is a 'wasted vote' at this stage anyway.    Bernier has guts because he knows the Liberal fear and rage machine will stoke the narrative of 'white supremacist' for even thinking that immigration should be geared to Canada's needs and economy.  People don't care about the colour of skin, they care about education and or  skills which they prefer.

I think his figure is a bit low tho, maybe between 150,000 to 200,000 would be a more agreeable number, but no matter the figure the Liberals will immediately come out with the usual narrative and accusations.  Bernier knows this but seems to be willing to take the heat.   

 

[Argus]

3 minutes ago, scribblet said:

I think his figure is a bit low tho, maybe between 150,000 to 200,000 would be a more agreeable number, but no matter the figure the Liberals will immediately come out with the usual narrative and accusations.  Bernier knows this but seems to be willing to take the heat.  

Yeah, that's the thing which has turned me off on Scheer. He won't stand up for anything he believes in. He sidesteps pointed questions and makes bland, vague promises with no specifics. I can't think of a single actual small-c conservative position the so-called Conservative party is offering up. And when you compare, just as an example, his kowtowing to the dairy lobby compared to Bernier's insistence that supply management would be eliminated, well, which is conservative?

Anyway, my hope is not so much that the PPC get elected as that this sort of thing draws enough support from the Tories that they have to respond and start putting in place actual conservative policies, on immigration and other subjects.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Argus

[dialamah]

Perhaps if everyone voted their heart instead of their fear, Bernier would get a sizable vote and the other parties would take note.  I understand strategic voting, but think it could lead to politicians thinking their policies got them elected and underestimating the impact of the "fear" of the other party.  It's pretty sad that voters end up ping-ponging between their worst fears.

[Argus]

15 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Excellent that you have a candidate that matches your political leanings.  

And that of most Canadians.

63% of Canadians want immigration cut
56% of Canadians think Canada is too welcoming to immigrants, 54% want immigration lowered, borders tightened, 48% immigrant are changing canada in ways I don't like.
68% want immigrants to assimilate better
75% want a values test for immigrants

 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Argus

[dialamah]

39 minutes ago, Argus said:

And that of most Canadians.

63% of Canadians want immigration cut
56% of Canadians think Canada is too welcoming to immigrants, 54% want immigration lowered, borders tightened, 48% immigrant are changing canada in ways I don't like.
68% want immigrants to assimilate better
75% want a values test for immigrants

 

If so, he'll no doubt do better than the 3% he currently shows in the polls.

[scribblet]

No he won't because people are now cowed and afraid to say or do anything because of the Liberal fear and smear machine, and, they know at this point it's a wasted vote.

If Bernier made it happen the cops will have to hold the fence down so people can get across safely. Who’s going to hold the baggage?

ET:  Apparently Shut Down Roxham Road is all over the Quebec media now. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by scribblet

[taxme]

4 hours ago, scribblet said:

No he won't because people are now cowed and afraid to say or do anything because of the Liberal fear and smear machine, and, they know at this point it's a wasted vote.

If Bernier made it happen the cops will have to hold the fence down so people can get across safely. Who’s going to hold the baggage?

ET:  Apparently Shut Down Roxham Road is all over the Quebec media now. 

Scheer is a coward and has no rocks to take on the leftist liberal media like Bernier is doing. The sad part is that Scheer knows this but yet he will still kiss their leftist liberal behinds as usual. Scheer is too politically correct for me. 

"Who's going to hold the baggage"? Maybe Canada can just have their baggage delivered for them to their hotel that they will be staying at from the plane that they came in on in America. You know we Canadians like to cater to criminal illegals. And I think that those criminals should submit a bill for their plane and taxi ride to the border to the Canadian taxpayer's. Those poor illegals probably spent thousands of their dollars to get here. They will be needing some money now. Guess who is going to give them that money? One guess only and know that it won't be Trudeau.  

Shut down Roxham Road and they will only enter somewhere else. These guys have their Canadian maps in their hands already to go and they know the geography of Canada. A wall will not stop them. Troops will. 

 

[taxme]

5 hours ago, dialamah said:

If so, he'll no doubt do better than the 3% he currently shows in the polls.

Bernier has all the members that he needs to run candidates in every riding district in Canada. Bernier could win if every conservative gave him their vote. 

[Spiderfish]

1 minute ago, taxme said:

Bernier has all the members that he needs to run candidates in every riding district in Canada. Bernier could win if every conservative gave him their vote. 

That's the problem though, every Conservative won't give him their vote.  He doesn't have anywhere near the support he would need to put forward a realistically viable challenge, let alone defeat Trudeau... believing this could happen is a delusion.  He doesn't stand a chance in this election...maybe in anther election cycle or two...maybe, but not this one. 

Splitting the vote is a big mistake, unless you're a fan of the current PM and his policies.

[Spiderfish]

5 hours ago, scribblet said:

If Bernier made it happen the cops will have to hold the fence down so people can get across safely. Who’s going to hold the baggage?

If someone did a midnight stealth run and threw up a couple hundred feet of chainlink fence across the well-worn trail, it would likely be enough to deter 95% of the people crossing...for about an hour.  Would be quite the photo op the next morning, watching the RCMP tear down the "unauthorized" fence to restore the free and unfettered passage of illegal border crossers into our country.

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, Argus said:

Anyway, my hope is not so much that the PPC get elected as that this sort of thing draws enough support from the Tories that they have to respond and start putting in place actual conservative policies, on immigration and other subjects.

I know it would be nice but may take several electoral cycles before they change, if ever. The Conservatives need a new leader. Meanwhile Liberals are on the rampage to sell out the country.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Spiderfish said:

That's the problem though, every Conservative won't give him their vote.  He doesn't have anywhere near the support he would need to put forward a realistically viable challenge, let alone defeat Trudeau... believing this could happen is a delusion.  He doesn't stand a chance in this election...maybe in anther election cycle or two...maybe, but not this one. 

Splitting the vote is a big mistake, unless you're a fan of the current PM and his policies.

I'm not but Scheer doesn't seem like he has the courage to be much different. He's opposed to all sorts of stuff but won't say he'll do any of it differently because that might offend someone. An excellent example is that dumbass complaint the tories issued the other day about how it's taken 4 years and Trudeau still hasn't made a decision about whether to renovate 24 Sussex or tear it down. They castigated Trudeau for this but then wouldn't say what they would do other than try to 'short-circuit the bureaucracy and look for ways to speed things up". Give me a break! Just say what you'll do!  Say "As soon as elected we will give the order for this building to be torn and down and replaced, construction to start within the year." There, nice and decisive.

It was the same when they complained about the fighter competition that the government has finally launched. They criticized the Liberals for taking too long. But what would they do if elected? Why, they would launch an immediate competition! The Liberals just DID that! How is yours supposed to speed things up? Why not just say "We will immediately buy the F-35." Everyone knows it's going to win anyway and most people accept that by now. But no, the Tories can't stand behind anything. Make a decision and someone might complain! Oh my!

Pipelines. What's he gonna do? He's all for them! But... what will you DO? Will you use the federal goverment's powers under the constitution to push through the pipeline? What would you do differently? Crickets.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Argus

[Spiderfish]

23 minutes ago, Argus said:

I'm not but Scheer doesn't seem like he has the courage to be much different. He's opposed to all sorts of stuff but won't say he'll do any of it differently because that might offend someone. An excellent example is that dumbass complaint the tories issued the other day about how it's taken 4 years and Trudeau still hasn't made a decision about whether to renovate 24 Sussex or tear it down. They castigated Trudeau for this but then wouldn't say what they would do other than try to 'short-circuit the bureaucracy and look for ways to speed things up". Give me a break! Just say what you'll do!  Say "As soon as elected we will give the order for this building to be torn and down and replaced, construction to start within the year." There, nice and decisive.

It was the same when they complained about the fighter competition that the government has finally launched. They criticized the Liberals for taking too long. But what would they do if elected? Why, they would launch an immediate competition! The Liberals just DID that! How is yours supposed to speed things up? Why not just say "We will immediately buy the F-35." Everyone knows it's going to win anyway and most people accept that by now. But no, the Tories can't stand behind anything. Make a decision and someone might complain! Oh my!

Pipelines. What's he gonna do? He's all for them! But... what will you DO? Will you use the federal goverment's powers under the constitution to push through the pipeline? What would you do differently? Crickets.

All good points and I don't disagree.  I'm just not ready to throw out my vote to ensure another Trudeau victory.  I believe in principled support...but I believe in pragmatism more.  Bernier can't get it done...period.  It doesn't matter what he stands for, his policies and vision are moot in this election cycle.  My interest and hope in this upcoming election is in stemming the bleeding...triage. 

Scheer is a light weight, no doubt...I'm not a Scheer fan.  But if he can gain some momentum with his energy corridor idea, sway some influence by making a strong case to Canadians for responsible Canadian resource development without the need to shut the whole sector down , keep his hands off the guns of innocent target and sport shooters, try to keep the deficit below 15 or 20 billion a year, and keep from driving a gigantic wedge between regions of our country any further...he will be miles ahead of what we have now.  And if he can keep from totally embarrassing this country on the world stage, playing dress up and dancing around like a ferry, arrogantly lecturing all of us on his morally superior virtue, and put a coherent sentence together when speaking off script, it will be a bonus.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Spiderfish

[marcus]

4 minutes ago, Spiderfish said:

Scheer is a light weight, no doubt...I'm not really a Scheer fan.  But if he can gain some momentum with his energy corridor idea, sway some influence by making a strong case to Canadians for responsible Canadian resource development without the need to shut the whole sector down , keep his hands off the guns of innocent target and sport shooters, try to keep the deficit below 15 or 20 billion a year, and keep from driving a gigantic wedge between regions of our country any further...

Scheer will lose if he tries to compete with Bernier's ideas. With who he is as a person, I can see him being able to attract and gain the votes of "blue liberals", who are fans of traditional conservatism. Many of them are fiscally conservative but socially liberal and progressive. They loathe Trump and American style conservatism. Attacks on immigrants (read: Muslims/brown skin people) and fear mongering will not gain their votes. Blue liberals also do care about the environment, which has finally become one of the biggest topics and deciding factors.

So it's a fine balance. 

Scheer should continue to push for "responsible Canadian resource development", but he should also go beyond just lip service and push for renewables and advancement in technology. 

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, marcus said:

 They loathe Trump and American style conservatism.

 

But they love American style social media platforms, identity politics, analytics, fund raising, televised debates, etc.

[Argus]

27 minutes ago, Spiderfish said:

All good points and I don't disagree.  I'm just not ready to throw out my vote to ensure another Trudeau victory.  I believe in principled support...but I believe in pragmatism more.  Bernier can't get it done...period.  It doesn't matter what he stands for, his policies and vision are moot in this election cycle.  My interest and hope in this upcoming election is in stemming the bleeding...triage. 

Scheer will need a majority or else the other left wing parties will prop Trudeau up. He's only once come anywhere near that territory and that was the height of the SNC scandal. The Tories are at 34% now, and I strongly suspect that once the Liberals start pumping out high priced promises for pharmacare and daycare and the like, he's going to drop further because the Tories just do not have any ideas that are attractive to people. I think people are in the mood for change but Scheer seems convinced his best chance is to just say nothing and hope people are turned off enough by Trudeau to vote for him. I don't think that will work.

27 minutes ago, Spiderfish said:

Scheer is a light weight, no doubt...I'm not a Scheer fan.  But if he can gain some momentum with his energy corridor idea,

The energy corridor is a good idea but he has zero chance of getting it done unless he's willing to use federal powers to override BC and Quebec. And he doesn't seem like the guy with the balls to do that. Anyway, I am in a safe Tory riding so my vote doesn't really matter. I might as well spend it helping to make a point.

 

 

[Shady]

I like Bernier.  But I can’t in good conscience vote for him if it means another term of Justin.  That’s my worry.  I wish Bernier was treated better by the Conservatives and not forced to leave.  He would make a great minister of immigration in a Conservative government.  I’m not a big fan of Scheer either.  

[Michael Hardner]

24 minutes ago, Shady said:

I like Bernier.  

He is - how the French say - 'cuckoo for cocoa puff'.  Can you imagine a sitting prime minister declaring that the UN is a joke ?  So - would he pull out of the UN ?  Nutty.

Scheer courts the nutter vote but says he would pursue a security council seat...

[Shady]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

He is - how the French say - 'cuckoo for cocoa puff'.  Can you imagine a sitting prime minister declaring that the UN is a joke ?  So - would he pull out of the UN ?  Nutty.

Scheer courts the nutter vote but says he would pursue a security council seat...

Complete and utter nonsense.  Btw, the UN IS a joke.  It’s made itself into one.  Acknowledging that fact isn’t crazy at all.  What’s crazy is ignoring it.  Scheer courts the same middle class voters that every party courts.

[Michael Hardner]

35 minutes ago, Shady said:

1. Complete and utter nonsense.  

2. Btw, the UN IS a joke.   

3. Acknowledging that fact isn’t crazy at all.   

4. Scheer courts the same middle class voters that every party courts.

1. What is nonsense ?  My assertions about Bernier ?  They are fact.

2. Your opinion, which is why you would receive even less votes than Bernier.

3. For someone who actually expects to be PM then, yes, it's crazy.  If you are a UFOs-are-real type candidate then it's not crazy to acknowledge it.

4. And yet Scheer is crazy for wanting to be part of the UN Security Council ?  Your Conservative top guns don't agree.  One of them must be crazy, right ?

 

[OftenWrong]

54 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Can you imagine a sitting prime minister declaring that the UN is a joke ?  So - would he pull out of the UN ?

The UN is not above reproach, is it?  
Criticism doesn't have to mean pulling out the UN, but could mean reforms. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

1. The UN is not above reproach, is it?  
2. Criticism doesn't have to mean pulling out the UN, but could mean reforms. 

1. & 2. Absolutely true.

[J4L]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

He is - how the French say - 'cuckoo for cocoa puff'.  Can you imagine a sitting prime minister declaring that the UN is a joke ?  So - would he pull out of the UN ?  Nutty.

 

How is that any different than Trump?

Edited July 26, 2019 by J4L