Neil Austen Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 "Conservatives say their environmental plan will focus on using technology" So gas up that truck and SUV. You can have your cake, no charge. Just like Conservative yahoos to promise to fix the problem with nonexistent technology. Just like Trump when he said, "We don't need China's 5G technology. America will go 6G!" Like you can just snap your fingers and new tech will magically appear to solve all your problems. Conservative mismanagement and their utter buffoonery will be the ruin of Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) They're just following the polls which show that Canadians will pay lip service to climate change but are not actually willing to pay much to do anything about it, climate change ranks tenth amongst voters polled concerns and 50% of voters say they are not even willing to pay $100 a year for climate change related issues. As per usual, the public these days virtue signals to be politically correct, but that's all it amounts to in the end, when it comes to money, they are far more conservative than they would admit publicly, lest they be Twitter mobbed or whatever. In terms of my pick-up truck, I do drive it proudly in contempt of the Climate Mob, but in actual fact, with the technology Chevy is using in their engines these days, emissions wise it's not that bad. I guess I'm going to have to escalate to leaving the engine idling as much as possible to express contempt appropriately, but what the heck, I can afford it, sticking it to the Climate Mobsters is worth paying the premium. Edited June 21, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) I think the best climate change measures are ones that achieve other important goals at the same time. That way it can receive the widest public support, even among climate change deniers. For example, building faster, more frequent, and more widely available mass transport would improve business productivity and quality of life for most Canadians. Imagine having fast electrified rail within a 20 minute walk or bus ride of most Canadian residents. Imagine high speed rail in the Quebec-Windsor corridor that could move people between Toronto and Montreal in well under three hours. What about Calgary to Edmonton? Plan communities that provide concentrations of population that make rail networks economically viable and that incorporate their own carbon sinks (forests/marshes/ponds). Incorporating affordable and sensible green tech in the building code will immediately create a mass market for green tech manufacturers that doesn’t require ridiculous subsidies and carbon taxes. Air and water quality are important to all Canadians. Some greenhouse gases are also pollutants. Focus on reducing those. Edited June 21, 2019 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: I think the best climate change measures are ones that achieve other important goals at the same time. That way it can receive the widest public support, even among climate change deniers. For example, building faster, more frequent, and more widely available mass transport would improve business productivity and quality of life for most Canadians. Imagine having fast electrified rail within a 20 minute walk or bus ride of most Canadian residents. Imagine high speed rail in the Quebec-Windsor corridor that could move people between Toronto and Montreal in well under three hours. What about Calgary to Edmonton? Plan communities that provide concentrations of population that make rail networks economically viable and that incorporate their own carbon sinks (forests/marshes/ponds). Incorporating affordable and sensible green tech in the building code will immediately create a mass market for green tech manufacturers that doesn’t require ridiculous subsidies and carbon taxes. Air and water quality are important to all Canadians. Some greenhouse gases are also pollutants. Focus on reducing those. I wouldn't rely on government, it's too dysfunctional at the best of times, but in this era of mass media hyper polarization nobody is ever going to get a mandate to do anything decisive, it's perpetual gridlock any way you slice it. Make your own preparations, move out of dense urban centers, avoid flood plains and tornado flats, look for buried electrical utilities for ice storms, get a back up generator, buy a gun, doesn't have to be an AR15, pump action shotgun is all you need, basic preparations for storms, floods, fires, and civil disorder in extremis, etcetera. And don't buy a Prius, for extreme weather events you're going to need that high ground clearance four wheel drive heavy duty truck, with snow chains and a plow. Edited June 21, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: I wouldn't rely on government, it's too dysfunctional at the best of times, but in this era of mass media hyper polarization nobody is ever going to get a mandate to do anything decisive, it's perpetual gridlock any way you slice it. Make your own preparations, move out of dense urban centers, avoid flood plains and tornado flats, look for buried electrical utilities for ice storms, get a back up generator, buy a gun, doesn't have to be an AR15, pump action shotgun is all you need, basic preparations for storms, floods, fires, and civil disorder in extremis, etcetera. Well I’m not building a bunker anytime soon, but I do live near large storm water catch basins that prevent flooding and I have a solar system that can eventually take me somewhat off the grid. I think all urban planning should provide efficiencies and self-sufficiency. I think successful future communities will have their own small green power and water supplies. Geothermal/solar/wind, if they are required by the building code and therefore drop in price per unit through mass production, can bring communities close to zero emissions. I’d love it if all communities used land efficiently without feeling overcrowded, and if they had all of the amenities people enjoy in cities: Main Street shops and cafes, rapid transit, and also flood catchment basins that look and feel like natural lakes, local small farming and food supply...Of course, highly accountable local policing would be part of the mix. Include an effective militia that could be tapped if there ever was a major security threat/invasion, and you have the basic ingredients for a society that can function as part of a larger city, country, or trading block, but that could also function independently if the rest of the world went to shit. Edited June 21, 2019 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Well I’m not building a bunker anytime soon, but I do live near large storm water catch basins that prevent flooding and I have a solar system that can eventually take me somewhat off the grid. I think all urban planning should provide efficiencies and self-sufficiency. I think successful future communities will have their own small green power and water supplies. Geothermal/solar/wind, if they are required by the building code and therefore drop in price per unit through mass production, can bring communities close to zero emissions. I’d love it if all communities used land efficiently without feeling overcrowded, and if they had all of the amenities people enjoy in cities: Main Street shops and cafes, rapid transit, and also flood catchment basins that look and feel like natural lakes, local small farming and food supply...Of course, highly accountable local policing would be part of the mix. Include an effective militia that could be tapped if there ever was a major security threat/invasion, and you have the basic ingredients for a society that can both function as part of a larger city, country, or trading block, but that could also function almost independently if the rest of the world went to shit. Bunkers are only useful for defensive works against blast fragmentation and small arms fire, that's not going to be the threat, it's all about logistics, ammo, water, rations, fuel, batteries, medical supplies, an all weather and terrain vehicle with payload to carry supplies, etcetera. It's not just me, my neighbors are kitted out too, so we are the militia already. The lefties in downtown Toronto will be shivering in the dark, out here in the boonies we know the government ain't gonna be getting to us quickly, if at all. Edited June 21, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 Mr. Trudeau has failed Canadians due to his lack of vision. Such uninspiring leadership should come as no surprise, since the man has no prior experience. All he can do is suggest another tax, with no explanation of how it will help to solve the actual problem. Andrew Scheer has at least proposed some more progressive ideas. In addition to making carbon reduction technology profitable, his plan also embraces the reality that Canada's CO2 contribution is dwarfed by countries like China. There is no point in punishing ourselves by wasting taxpayers money on a futile endeavour that accomplishes nothing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) Scheer and Raitt have already shown themselves to be spineless gelatinous cowardly craven cucks who won't even stand up to the most extreme totalitarian leftist kooks, if they can't even do that, you can't rely on them for anything. Vote for Trudeau, to punish the cucks, and feed the lefties rope to hang themselves with. Have the courage of your convictions, if you believe Trudeau is going to be disastrous in the end, let it come, crisis is opportunity, chaos is a ladder, when it all comes crashing down on the public, that's the time to pounce. So long as the free money debt bubble persists, the public will keep voting for faireys and unicorns and virtue signalling, there's not going to be any significant change, until they have to pay the piper and feel the pain. Edited June 21, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 I'm disappointed in cSheer, again. He badmouths the Liberals, something I do often, about their "tax" costing Joe Average X dollars per year. But when he inflicts cost on corporate emitters here, does he really think the extra cost will be swallowed by the corporations? Trickle down works on expenses, but not profits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) I see it all as a good thing, because what all these idiot politicians are doing, is driving prices up, which will incite ever more inflation, which will force interest rates up, which will at some point pop the debt bubble and bring the free money party to an end, crisis, opportunity, blood in the streets, corrections are a good thing, just make sure you're hedged. We are back to the la la land economics of the early 1970's, it's going to blow up at some point, but that's when you pounce, you're wasting your time trying to change things while the markets are being prevented from finding a price, nothing will change, until market forces come roaring back with a vengeance. And when that goes whipsawing through the middle class like a hot knife through butter, it will be the climate change prattling lefty elites who will be facing the angry mobs. You think Donald Trump is bad? You think populists are running amok? ZOMG Yellow Vests? Just wait, you ain't seen nothing yet, because the shit hasn't hit the fan, that's yet to come. Edited June 21, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 Corporations can charge whatever they want. When it comes to buying from corporations, consumers have a choice. With the government tax, we have no choice. Whether you're a conscientious environmentalist or not, you pay the penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, OftenWrong said: ....his plan also embraces the reality that Canada's CO2 contribution is dwarfed by countries like China. There is no point in punishing ourselves by wasting taxpayers money on a futile endeavour that accomplishes nothing. Sheer's plan, like Trudeau's, ignores the fact that digging up the Tar Sands will actually cause 22 billion tons of CO2 to be released. That's just what's recoverable with existing extraction technology. I suspect there will be a lot more effort put into developing the technology to free up the other 240 billion tons. The only point to talking about Canada's miniscule contribution is to greenwash and deny the actual reality. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tar-sands-and-keystone-xl-pipeline-impact-on-global-warming/ Edited June 21, 2019 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) Rex Murphy as usual summing it up nicely with "Scheer and Trudeau both continue their tiresome climate charades". . . https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-scheer-and-trudeau-both-continue-their-tiresome-climate-charades?video_autoplay=true Quote It is a fiction and a delusion that Canada is in any way now or ever will be a significant influence, for good or ill, in the dreary, endless, pup-chasing-its-own-tail “fight against climate change.” So deary, so endless, so true. Edited June 21, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 20 hours ago, Dougie93 said: They're just following the polls which show that Canadians will pay lip service to climate change but are not actually willing to pay much to do anything about it, climate change ranks tenth amongst voters polled concerns and 50% of voters say they are not even willing to pay $100 a year for climate change related issues. As per usual, the public these days virtue signals to be politically correct, but that's all it amounts to in the end, when it comes to money, they are far more conservative than they would admit publicly, lest they be Twitter mobbed or whatever. In terms of my pick-up truck, I do drive it proudly in contempt of the Climate Mob, but in actual fact, with the technology Chevy is using in their engines these days, emissions wise it's not that bad. I guess I'm going to have to escalate to leaving the engine idling as much as possible to express contempt appropriately, but what the heck, I can afford it, sticking it to the Climate Mobsters is worth paying the premium. I always get a good laugh when I see a sign saying turn off your engine if you are having to idle for awhile. I will turn my engine off alright if I am going to sit there for more than five minutes without moving otherwise the engine will keep running. This climate change/global warming bull chit has gone way to far. Why are people so obsessed with this climate nonsense? If these so called climate concerned people would do what they ask others to do then they would have to get rid of their vehicles, boats, stop taking airplanes and stop owning two or more properties like David Suzuki and Al Gore have and do. I am not going to do anything about this so called climate change nonsense because as far as I am concerned there is no climate problem to be concerned about. It is all just another deflection from avoiding and really discussing and debating real issues that needs to be discussed and debated. Here in Canada enough has been done to try and stop this so called climate change and it needs to stop now. I am sick and tired hearing about the climate. But if there were a real problem with our climate then let us see the politicians take the first steps and let them get rid of their gas sucking cars and let them take public transit to work and to play. Let them take a bus or a train for their holidays. No planes allowed. Politicians like to tell people to practice what they preach but never do what they do themselves. They are exempt from anything like climate change. It's all bull chit this climate nonsense but yet the poor kids in school are being brainwashed every day into believing that it will be the end of the world if someone drops a piece of paper on the ground and not put it in the garbage can. I once dropped a piece of paper out of my car window and some young environmental teenager punk went beserk on me. I laughed in his face and told him, well you do not want to know what I told him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 20 hours ago, Neil Austen said: "Conservatives say their environmental plan will focus on using technology" So gas up that truck and SUV. You can have your cake, no charge. Just like Conservative yahoos to promise to fix the problem with nonexistent technology. Just like Trump when he said, "We don't need China's 5G technology. America will go 6G!" Like you can just snap your fingers and new tech will magically appear to solve all your problems. Conservative mismanagement and their utter buffoonery will be the ruin of Canada. The brainwashing by the buffoonery enviromentalist movement will be your ruin. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, taxme said: I always get a good laugh when I see a sign saying turn off your engine if you are having to idle for awhile. I will turn my engine off alright if I am going to sit there for more than five minutes without moving otherwise the engine will keep running. This climate change/global warming bull chit has gone way to far. Why are people so obsessed with this climate nonsense? If these so called climate concerned people would do what they ask others to do then they would have to get rid of their vehicles, boats, stop taking airplanes and stop owning two or more properties like David Suzuki and Al Gore have and do. I am not going to do anything about this so called climate change nonsense because as far as I am concerned there is no climate problem to be concerned about. It is all just another deflection from avoiding and really discussing and debating real issues that needs to be discussed and debated. Here in Canada enough has been done to try and stop this so called climate change and it needs to stop now. I am sick and tired hearing about the climate. But if there were a real problem with our climate then let us see the politicians take the first steps and let them get rid of their gas sucking cars and let them take public transit to work and to play. Let them take a bus or a train for their holidays. No planes allowed. Politicians like to tell people to practice what they preach but never do what they do themselves. They are exempt from anything like climate change. It's all bull chit this climate nonsense but yet the poor kids in school are being brainwashed every day into believing that it will be the end of the world if someone drops a piece of paper on the ground and not put it in the garbage can. I once dropped a piece of paper out of my car window and some young environmental teenager punk went beserk on me. I laughed in his face and told him, well you do not want to know what I told him. Well I am absolutely insurgent against the Climate Mob and their Red Herring ZOMG carbon religion, and also recycling is a big lie, so I don't bother with that, but I never litter, in fact I meticulously remove litter from the environs around here, there's no reason to litter, that's self harm in the end, one man one kit, leave no trace behind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 18 hours ago, Dougie93 said: Scheer and Raitt have already shown themselves to be spineless gelatinous cowardly craven cucks who won't even stand up to the most extreme totalitarian leftist kooks, if they can't even do that, you can't rely on them for anything. Vote for Trudeau, to punish the cucks, and feed the lefties rope to hang themselves with. Have the courage of your convictions, if you believe Trudeau is going to be disastrous in the end, let it come, crisis is opportunity, chaos is a ladder, when it all comes crashing down on the public, that's the time to pounce. So long as the free money debt bubble persists, the public will keep voting for faireys and unicorns and virtue signalling, there's not going to be any significant change, until they have to pay the piper and feel the pain. Trudeau won't even stand up for those two Canadians that were arrested by the Chinese communist government. During a meeting with Trump, our fearless dear leader asked Trump for help in trying to get the Chinese government to set them free. What a tough wimp feminist this guy is. Help me Mr. President. I do not know what to do. If the Chinese had done the same thing to two Americans Trump would not put up with that chit and China knows it. Trump would say set them free or else. I have not even heard a word from Scheer as to what he plans to do about those two Canadians kidnapped off the streets of China and thrown in their gulag. Scheer is just another spinless liberal as all liberals are. Scheer's plan for this so called climate change green crisis will be the same as the liberal program. Do as I say and not as I do. Suffer my little Canadian children and come on to me. I have the answer to all of your worries and concerns. I heard that Green technology has already been proven to be to expensive. It is said that it would cost close to a trillion dollars if we were to try and implement green technology like Ocasio Cortez would like to do. For Scheer to go green it would cost the Canadian taxpayer's hundreds of billions of their tax dollars to try and implement such a plan. Everything would have to be redesigned which will cost lots of tax dollars to do so and not to forget that more new taxes would have to be implemented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, taxme said: Trudeau won't even stand up for those two Canadians that were arrested by the Chinese communist government. During a meeting with Trump, our fearless dear leader asked Trump for help in trying to get the Chinese government to set them free. What a tough wimp feminist this guy is. Help me Mr. President. I do not know what to do. If the Chinese had done the same thing to two Americans Trump would not put up with that chit and China knows it. Trump would say set them free or else. I have not even heard a word from Scheer as to what he plans to do about those two Canadians kidnapped off the streets of China and thrown in their gulag. Scheer is just another spinless liberal as all liberals are. Scheer's plan for this so called climate change green crisis will be the same as the liberal program. Do as I say and not as I do. Suffer my little Canadian children and come on to me. I have the answer to all of your worries and concerns. I heard that Green technology has already been proven to be to expensive. It is said that it would cost close to a trillion dollars if we were to try and implement green technology like Ocasio Cortez would like to do. For Scheer to go green it would cost the Canadian taxpayer's hundreds of billions of their tax dollars to try and implement such a plan. Everything would have to be redesigned which will cost lots of tax dollars to do so and not to forget that more new taxes would have to be implemented. Don't vote for the Cucks, feed the lefties rope to hang themselves with, step down on the gas pedal and help them drive the economy off a cliff, crisis is opportunity, chaos is a ladder, a debt bubble popping in a massive market correction which whipsaws through the Canadian middle class like a hot knife through butter is not only a good thing, it's just desserts. Can't find any value anyways until there is blood in the streets, embrace the suck, buy low sell high. Edited June 21, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Well I am absolutely insurgent against the Climate Mob and their Red Herring ZOMG carbon religion, and also recycling is a big lie, so I don't bother with that, but I never litter, in fact I meticulously remove litter from the environs around here, there's no reason to litter, that's self harm in the end, one man one kit, leave no trace behind you. You would make a great greenie for the environmental movement. I will not stoop to pick up any litter. I pay taxes and some of those taxes are going towards paying some city worker to pick up any litter lying around for me. This person has a job because of me. Isn't that fantastic? Hey, come to think about it. How can I write off this city worker in my taxes? I am an employer and he is my employee. Any ideas as to how that can be done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Don't vote for the Cucks, feed the lefties rope to hang themselves with, step down on the gas pedal and help them drive the economy off a cliff, crisis is opportunity, chaos is a ladder, a debt bubble popping in a massive market correction which whipsaws through the Canadian middle class like a hot knife through butter is not only a good thing, it's just deserts. Can't find any value anyways until there is blood in the streets, embrace the suck, buy low sell high. I will not be voting for "cuck" Scheer. I will be voting for Maxine Bernier. Bernier will be my last hope for Canada. If Scheer become the PM of Canada then I will join your screw and destroy Canada club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, taxme said: You would make a great greenie for the environmental movement. I will not stoop to pick up any litter. I pay taxes and some of those taxes are going towards paying some city worker to pick up any litter lying around for me. This person has a job because of me. Isn't that fantastic? Hey, come to think about it. How can I write off this city worker in my taxes? I am an employer and he is my employee. Any ideas as to how that can be done? I couldn't litter even if I wanted to, I was a Reconnaissance Patrolman, every piece of litter provides intelligence to the enemy, I've been so thoroughly indoctrinated by the RCR battleschool that littering is now against my very nature. That's what makes me such a formidable mass murderer, it's all so deeply ingrained as to be reflex without conscious thought. Edited June 21, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Dougie93 said: Rex Murphy as usual summing it up nicely with "Scheer and Trudeau both continue their tiresome climate charades". . . https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-scheer-and-trudeau-both-continue-their-tiresome-climate-charades?video_autoplay=true So deary, so endless, so true. True of Rex too. He's also completely ignored the fact that burning Tar Sands oil, the filthiest and most CO2 laden oil on the planet, will release 22 billion tons of CO2. That's just from currently recoverable stocks and figuring out how to extract and burn the rest will release another 240 billion. That impact to global warming is one fuck of a lot than what's being advertised. Notwithstanding that Canadian oil companies are vastly underreporting their refining and processing emissions to a dog's breakfast of incompetent federal and provincial regulators that are probably looking the other way in any case. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tar-sands-and-keystone-xl-pipeline-impact-on-global-warming/ https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/oilsands-carbon-emissions-study-1.5106809 https://globalnews.ca/news/4176459/pollution-from-canadian-refineries-an-embarrassment-compared-to-u-s/ Edited June 21, 2019 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, eyeball said: True of Rex too. He's also completely ignored the fact that burning Tar Sands oil, the filthiest and most CO2 laden oil on the planet, will release 22 billion tons of CO2. That's just from currently recoverable stocks and figuring out how to extract and burn the rest will release another 240 billion. That impact to global warming is one fuck of a lot than what's being advertised. Notwithstanding that Canadian oil companies are vastly underreporting their refining and processing emissions to a dog's breakfast of incompetent federal and provincial regulators that are probably looking the other way in any case. CO2 is not filthy, CO2 is what plants breath to produce the atmosphere, ZOMG CO2 is obviously a Red Herring, although I'm no fan of bitumen extracted hydrocarbons, simply because they are not profitable at historical average prices. You're wasting your time and energy on trying to get the government to kill the tar sands, but don't worry, market forces will do it in the end. Edited June 21, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Dougie93 said: CO2 is not filthy, CO2 isn't the only thing burning that crap produces. Quote CO2 is what plants breath to produce the atmosphere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 The Church of ZOMG carbon chases their own tails, exactly as Rex said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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