MACKAY VS HARPER...Better For Canada?

[tml12]

Living in Quebec, I am a bit ostracized from Conservative Party politics.

Thus, after reading an article in the Montreal Gazette today regarding Peter MacKay's secret undermining of Harper's leadership I wondered:

1) Could MacKay be a better leader than Harper?

2) Does he have what it takes to beat the Liberal media machines?

3) Is he an attractive candidate (i.e. will he make people want to vote Conservative?)

I am interested in your thoughts...

[Whosoever]

3) Is he an attractive candidate

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

His schnoz is kind of huge. From all the lies to David Orchard et al., I suppose.

I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

[err]

To answer the title of the forum, I think Harper is better for Canada, because he doesn't have any chance of being elected....

[shoop]

Harper would definitely be better for Canada. His French is much better than McKay's. He is an honest and trustworthy person. Unlike McKay who broke the pledge that lead to him becoming leader of the now-defunct Progressive Conservative Party of Canada.

It's all pretty moot though. The dump Harper 'movement' has a whole 60 signatures on their petition yet. Hell I bet you could even find 60 committed Liberals who would sign such a petition against Dithers, but that story wouldn't see the light of day in the mainstream Canadian media...

[Cartman]

I think Harper is the better leader. MacKay lost most credibility when he lied in the agreement with Orchard and the last of it was gone when he did that sad assed interview with CBC when Belinda dumped him but good. I really want that wimp in power.

[shoop]

I think Harper is the better leader.  MacKay lost most credibility when he lied in the agreement with Orchard and the last of it was gone when he did that sad assed interview with CBC when Belinda dumped him but good.  I really want that wimp in power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All this talk about McKay jumping to the provincial scene is great for the party. If he goes, Harper can consolidate his grip on power without the press having a field day about it just being the Reform party in different garb. I say this because McKay won't snipe from the sidelines like Joe Who because he wants a shot at the big prize again.

If he stays, it confirms the mainstream leanings of the party.

It's all good baby.

[I Miss Trudeau]

1) Could MacKay be a better leader than Harper?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't see how he could be any worse.

2) Does he have what it takes to beat the Liberal media machines?

This liberal media conspiracy is really getting old. You know what? The media offers up whatever they think will sell to their audience. So when Harper recently decried a poll showing support for him reaching near record laws as being affected by liberal bias, I had to chuckle. You see, the poll was commisioned by arguably the most right wing news chain in Canada, Sun media. You know, if your party is so far to the right of the most right wing media outlets in Canada, perhaps the media isn't the problem. Keep in mind, they make money by catering to what people want. Evidently, they don't want Harper, nor the reform party. Perhaps they want something, or someone, more like the PC party.

3) Is he an attractive candidate (i.e. will he make people want to vote Conservative?)

I can't see people holding him in very high esteem after that pathetic day in the cabbage patch.

[kimmy]

Why is it that when other politicians break promises or commit egregious gaffs it's forgiven or forgotten quickly, but some people that Peter MacKay is damaged goods for all eternity because he shafted David Orchard?

Peter MacKay did the country a tremendous service by getting Orchard out of politics. He should be given a medal.

-k

[shoop]

Why is it that when other politicians break promises or commit egregious gaffs it's forgiven or forgotten quickly, but some people that Peter MacKay is damaged goods for all eternity because he shafted David Orchard?

Peter MacKay did the country a tremendous service by getting Orchard out of politics. He should be given a medal.

-k

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

kimmy,

I totally agree that it is a good thing that Orchard is gone.

I don't believe that MacKay "got" Orchard out of politics.

MacKay only won the Progressive Conservative leadership by making a promise he couldn't have kept. The parties merged when they did because the big money supporters of both parties turned off the taps and said you have to merge.

MacKay's short-sightedness hurt the party. Had he not made the deal with Orchard, Orchard would have released his delegates and Prentice would have won the Progressive Conservative leadership. Prentice had the organization and regional support to win the CPC leadership. Prentice would have been a much more credible leader nationally, still might be some day, and would likely have won the 2004 election at the helm of the CPC.

No matter what Orchard was out of politics when the parties merged.

[Guest eureka]

Possibly getting Orchard out of politics was a good thing - for Orchard. In the politics as pracised these days, and as required by some posters who want a man with integrity to be gone, there is no room for the quality.

Orchard would have been driven to despair had he stayed.

[shoop]

Possibly getting Orchard out of politics was a good thing - for Orchard. In the politics as pracised these days, and as required by some posters who want a man with integrity to be gone, there is no room for the quality.

Orchard would have been driven to despair had he stayed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What does this mean? Seriously, help a brother out. This post makes no sense at all.....

[cybercoma]

Asking a bunch of Liberals who the best Conservative leader would be is like asking Palestinians who the best Israeli Prime Minister would be.

[Guest eureka]

Possibly it might make no sense to you. But then you have shown little aptitude for sense.

[cybercoma]

Possibly it might make no sense to you. But then you have shown little aptitude for sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you have a point, or did you just want to insult the guy? Your arrogant superiority act is obnoxious.

[Guest eureka]

Befuddled again! It was a fairly simple sentence and I imagined you were pretending to be dim.

[shoop]

Befuddled again! It was a fairly simple sentence and I imagined you were pretending to be dim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seriously f*ckwit, your post made no sense at all. Perhaps you could rephrase so someone pretending to be dim could understand it...

[Guest eureka]

Little integrity in politics.

Orchard has integrity.

His position would be frustrating and depressing for him.

Therefore, happier if he is not a politician.

Me Tarzan: You Jane.

[shoop]

Little integrity in politics.

Orchard has integrity.

His position would be frustrating and depressing for him.

Therefore, happier if he is not a politician.

Me Tarzan: You Jane.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Little intelligence in Eureka.

Covered by arrogant behaviour on MLW message boards.

Frustrated because others do not see the brilliance.

Therefore, unable to comprehend a small little man like Orchard is likely sitting at home today still rueing the day that McKay got one over on him.

Me ask reasonable question: You post childish, ig'nant response.

[Guest eureka]

The arrogance is all yours! You take a reasonable, and accurate, summation of the position of Orchard and try to claim it is a personal attack on you. You do this only to serve your own preferences.

Are you not able to deal with the implications of the Orchard political situation and the broader question of the inability of our political system to integrate honesty and integrity into its workings?

[mcqueen625]

3) Is he an attractive candidate

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

His schnoz is kind of huge. From all the lies to David Orchard et al., I suppose.

I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And you're willing to trust Martin and the Liberal after they have either stolen or misappripriated literally $millions and counting of our tax-dollars? Considering Dingwall's exploits, it appears to matter little whether the taxpayers of his riding kicked him to the curb or not, because Martin gave to constituants a slap in the face and basically told those voters that they are going to continue paying this useless person whether they like it or not, so he was appointed to his post at the Canadian Mint where he continued to spend as if he was still sitting in Cabinet. Martin does not appear at all contrite about the inappropriate expenditure of taxpayer's money, because he defended Dingwall in the House. They say we get the government we deserve, so I guess what deserve and want is a bunch of thieves and liars.

[kimmy]

It seems like the people who think Orchard would have been a great leader for the Tories are invariably people who would not have voted Tory if their lives depended on it. I wonder if that means something.

If Orchard were such a man of integrity, perhaps he should have run for leadership of a party whose policies he resembles. I assume his presence in the PC leadership race was a stunt of some kind.

-k

[Guest eureka]

I think Orchard would have been a disaster for the Tories and that is the saddest commentary on politics in general. I doubt that he could ever compromise his basic beliefs.

[shoop]

The arrogance is all yours! You take a reasonable, and accurate, summation of the position of Orchard and try to claim it is a personal attack on you. You do this only to serve your own preferences.

Are you not able to deal with the implications of the Orchard political situation and the broader question of the inability of our political system to integrate honesty and integrity into its workings?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You gave your summation as if talking to a child. Your summation was neither reasonable nor accurate.

I seriously do not understand your posts.

Orchard is not an example of honesty and integrity failing in our political system. He was a nutcase and got screwed over because he made a childish, and unrealistic demand. NOBODY could have stopped the merger. Orchard was too foolish and naive to see this.

You seem like those 'objectivists' who cannot understand why people mock the clear and concise writing of Ayn Rand, when in reality it is so childish and infantile it doesn't deserve serious consideration.

[Rovik]

Living in Quebec, I am a bit ostracized from Conservative Party politics.

1) Could MacKay be a better leader than Harper?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well MacKay would strenghten the Conservatives chances in Ontario and Atlantic Canada. BUT, there are two things going against them. First, as already mentioned, many Conservative supporters remember his broken promise with Orchard and wouldn't trust him. And secondly, many Conservative supporters Manitoba-West, would consider him part of the old PC party and would believe he might turn his back on many of the principles of what make Reform so popular out west.

Harper, on the other hand comes from the old Reform guard and is popular in Western Canada. BUT, there are four things going against him. First, he seems distant and unfriendly and this may scare off many potential Conservative voters. Secondly, he seems to have an inner circle that he mainly takes direction from, and if you are not in his inner circle, he won't listen to you. Third, many people from Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic Canada believe he would push a Western agenda onto the rest of Canada, which though may be good for parts of Western Canada, would not be good for Eastern Canada. And lastly, many people in Atlantic Canada still remember his "culture of defeat" statement and are leary of him.

Therefore, I would have to say that neither could lead the Conservatives to government.

[Guest eureka]

"Orchard was a nutcase" says very clearly indeed that you are so drenched in your beliefs that you cannot see the disaster that it was to LOSE a Conservative party.

With the demise of conservatism, this country lost any opportunity for a credible opposition to the Liberals for a long time to come. Orchard represented the conservative attempt to stop a dangerous radical populism from becoming a force in Canadian life.

Ayn Rand! Now there was a "nutcase."