Native inquiry an orgy of progressive guilt-mongering

[August1991]

22 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Every time I walk by a drunk Indian I think "how are the Leafs going to pay Tavares,  Matthews and Marner $11 million and still fill out the rest of the roster?" 

Doug,

Apparently, we disagree.

[Dougie93]

19 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Doug,

Apparently, we disagree.

Why?   I don't care what you think when you walk past a drunk Indian, but I'm not going to pretend that I pay much attention to drunks in the gutter.

One time when I was walking past the Indians who hang out at Gerrard and Parliament, one of them jumped up and started waylaying me, but I just smashed him in the windpipe and he went down like a sack of mud.   Problem solved.

Dude, I grew up in Regent Park, there were drunks and junkies everywhere, ain't no thang.  Urban jungle, only the strong survive.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

And hey, I'm a drinker,  and I drink whiskey, so If I let that get out of control, if I let that rule me, then I could end up in the gutter too.

But I wouldn't want you to shed any tears for me, that's on me, it's not on you, it's not on the Queen, it's not on the government, I take personal responsibility for my own shit.

[marcus]

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

But I did learn a fun new acronym:    2SLGBTQQIA (two-spirit, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, questioning, intersex and asexual)...yikes !

This is getting out of hand.

7 hours ago, Argus said:

Did you really think it would be anything else?

So you read the 600 page report?

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, August1991 said:

Every time I walk by a drunk Indian, I don't think of Justin Trudeau.

I think of Albert Einstein. And what this person could have created done.

It seems you think of how much money this guy costs you.

[GostHacked]

10 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I don't even mind that they blew a hundred million on it, who cares?  It's chump change compared to what they waste on the Department of National Defence.

DND blows like $500 million a week and the military is a total boondoggle.

If DND had run this little Indian puppet show, they would have spent a billion on it.

Or what Ottawa has overspent on the city's LRT.  (1.5 

[scribblet]

13 hours ago, jacee said:

That report is from 2015, produced under pressure after the RCMP were under several years of scrutiny and publicity for not investigating reports of missing Indigenous women, and investigating murdered Indigenous women poorly.

The stats you cited refer to are based on only 32 cases they investigated in 2013 & 2014, under considerable public pressure. ...

No surprise you wouldn't like the RCMP report, but I'll believe the RCMP over some unnecessary inquiry whose results where a foregone conclusion. 

I'm not saying nothing should be done, but calling it genocide undermines the credibility.  

Even the Federal minister doesn't agree with the push for stiffer sentences for crimes against Indigenous women, and rightly so as  ALL people should be treated equally.  This of course goes against Gladhue  Prinicple which wants lesser sentencing for Native perps. 

Not to mention that the 300 millions Trudeau just gave away to a global fund would go a long way to helping these women.

[scribblet]

No matter how many studies and inquiries there, there will never be any satisfaction for most people The missing and murdered aren't coming back, won't be found, and the mystery of their disappearance will remain unsolved, including all the missing Native men.   Due to the nature of reserve life, the isolation, the secrecy, and the mistrust of authority, there likely won't be any change any time soon, perhaps never - until the Natives get off the reserves and integrate into the mainstream Canadian lifestyle as the main issue is living on unsustainable isolated reserves with no financial accountability. 

[Spiderfish]

Trudeau has been roundly criticized for avoiding to use the word genocide when describing the disappearances and deaths of Indigenous women and girls in Canada on Monday, despite being called upon to do so.  I wonder how long he can hold out before submitting to the demands of the hysterical mouth-breathers who demand compliance with their description and correct his perception to correspond to "their truth".

Meanwhile, Commissioner Marion Buller has been making the morning radio talk show circuit declaring that the word genocide was used in the report with the intention of making people uncomfortable, to compel them into taking action.  I suspect that most people won't feel uncomfortable, so much as making them upset or angry that the authors of the report could be so monumentally irresponsible with such words.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Spiderfish

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Spiderfish said:

Trudeau has been roundly criticized for avoiding to use the word genocide when describing the disappearances and deaths of Indigenous women and girls in Canada on Monday, despite being called upon to do so.  I wonder how long he can hold out before submitting to the demands of the hysterical mouth-breathers who demand compliance with their description and correct his perception to correspond to "their truth".

Meanwhile, Commissioner Marion Buller has been making the morning radio talk show circuit declaring that the word genocide was used in the report with the intention of making people uncomfortable, to compel them into taking action.  I suspect that most people won't feel uncomfortable, so much as making them upset or angry that the authors of the report could be so monumentally irresponsible with such words.

Genocide is the intentional mass murder or elimination of a people.  Calling Canada’s treatment of Indigenous peoples genocide is a lie. 

[Dougie93]

15 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Genocide is the intentional mass murder or elimination of a people.  Calling Canada’s treatment of Indigenous peoples genocide is a lie. 

Even calling the British conquest a genocide is a lie.  

The American Revolution actually came about because the British Crown was protecting its Indian military allies from the American colonists and associated Virginia Company, who sought to ethnically cleanse the Ohio Valley for the purposes of land speculation.

[Dougie93]

The Liberal Party of Canada has simply erased Canadian history and replaced it with their own dogma.

So that they can fabricate narratives to their own purposes, as all totalitarian regimes do.

This hundred million dollar report is just more Orwellian Liberal Party of Canada propaganda.

Particularly pandering and funneling money to the totalitarian apparatchik college academics who were paid to write it.

Two birds with one stone, a boondoggle for their proxies,  who then fabricate the self serving narratives.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

The Liberal Party of Canada has simply erased Canadian history and replaced it with their own dogma.

So that they can fabricate narratives to their own purposes, as all totalitarian regimes do.

This hundred million dollar report is just more Orwellian Liberal Party of Canada propaganda.

Particularly pandering and funneling money to the totalitarian apparatchik college academics who were paid to write it.

Two birds with one stone, a boondoggle for their proxies,  who then fabricate the self serving narratives.

What’s particularly chilling is how groups such as the Haudenosane and Anishnabe, who are each a hybrid of different groups that lived in parts of central Canada for periods of time, having displaced other groups before they themselves were displaced, are laying the groundwork for future land claims through land acknowledgments that equity officers are making people say in both public and private  sector workplaces, including schools.  This indoctrination is happening with little explanation or historical analysis.  We are not seeing conscientious objectors, at least not publicly, because people are afraid for their careers.  It’s scary actually and we need political leaders who are unafraid to speak up.    

Edited June 4, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

What’s particularly chilling is how groups such as the Haudenosane and Anishnabe, who are each a hybrid of different groups that lived in parts of central Canada for periods of time, having displaced other groups before they themselves were displaced, are laying the groundwork for future land claims through land acknowledgments that equity officers are making people say in both public and private  sector workplaces, including schools.  This indoctrination is happening with little explanation or historical analysis.  We are not seeing conscientious objectors, at least not publicly, because people are afraid for their careers.  It’s scary actually and we need political leaders who are unafraid to speak up.    

I'm too old now to fear such things, most of my life is behind me now anyways.

I fear things like being crippled by disease or the heartbreak when I have to put one of my dogs down.
 

Canadian Confederation destroying itself? 

I don't fear that, I embrace it, I am revanchist against this ignominious totalitarian governance, death to Confederation I say, good riddance.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

Bear in mind that I have no quarrel with Ontario, not that it is an utopia, not that we wouldn't have to carry on the fight against the totalitarian leftists in downtown Toronto, none the less, to rid ourselves of the Ottawa Emperors with no clothes and carry on with our own Governor General and Prime Minister at Queens Park?

Canadian Confederation is no more a country than the European Union is,  all I want is a Canexit to be our own country free from Federalism.

Perfectly happy to defend and uphold that.  God save the Queen, God bless America, vive le Quebec libre.

There's no way to constrain totalitarian governance within the confines of Confederation, it's just going to keep expanding until it blows itself up, but that in the end will be the path out, to be free of it, then we can work on constraining a much smaller government, small enough to get it into the bathtub so we can strangle it.

Once it is reduced to just downtown Toronto vs the rest of the province, then we've got a real chance of bringing them to heel.

It's not like we do much business with the rest of Canada anyways, Confederation is a failed state, no east west trade, no alliance to keep the Americans out, never happened, our real partners are the Americans, the rest of Canada is a burden not a boon, a leftist entrenched interest set upon our throats by the academics, unions and parochial regional monopolies.

As for the Indians?   I think we could come to a mutually beneficial accommodation  with the Iroquois, if we just had to deal with the Iroquois bilaterally.

The Indians are not really a monolith, they don't have a unified national interest anymore than Canada does, that's why none of the federal schemes ever work, the Iroquois however I think we can do business with and I want to do business with them,  and when it's just them and us, without the rest of this balderdash Confederation, we can finally get down to business and talk turkey.

Without being saddled with the parochial interests of Confederation, Ontario's GDP would be larger than Canada's is now, everyone would be much healthier, wealthier and wiser, to include the Indians here.

If we could constrain the government and move towards Milton Friedman's Hong Kong model, we would be a powerhouse on the continent second only to the Americans.

The rest of Canada?  They can go f**k themselves, they hate us anyways, we are the Guardians of Confederation, not them, but we don't need them,  they don't need to be our problem anymore than New Zealand needs to be Australia's problem.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[marcus]

4 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Even calling the British conquest a genocide is a lie.  

gen·o·cide

/ˈjenəˌsīd/

 

1. the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.

    

   I think it's appropriate to say that genocide did take place during the conquest and colonization of the Americas. 

    

   However, I do agree that this report is self-serving, purposely exaggerated as it's a tactic to get the female voters to continue to vote for the Liberals. Haven't been on facebook in a while, but I can imagine the images being passed around by the suburban housewives.

    

   I can also see the extremists on the other side of this conversation - many of whom reside on this forum - trying to push aside the broken system which contributes to a broken culture and ethnic group that the European settlers created with their actions. 

    

   We need to acknowledge that we fucked the natives over throughout history and this was never okay. 

 

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, marcus said:

gen·o·cide

/ˈjenəˌsīd/

 

1. the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.

    

   I think it's appropriate to say that genocide did take place during the conquest and colonization of the Americas. 

    

   However, I do agree that this report is self-serving, purposely exaggerated as it's a tactic to get the female voters to continue to vote for the Liberals. Haven't been on facebook in a while, but I can imagine the images being passed around by the suburban housewives.

    

   I can also see the extremists on the other side of this conversation - many of whom reside on this forum - trying to push aside the broken system which contributes to a broken culture and ethnic group that the European settlers created with their actions. 

    

   We need to acknowledge that we fucked the natives over throughout history and this was never okay. 

 

 

I acknowledge that the Indians have been displaced into ghettos by entrenched interests, I acknowledge that this has devastated their communities, but I reject that 4,000 Indian women being killed mostly by their own spouses or by bad dates for Indian women who were street walking hookers, amounts to a genocide nor anything even approaching a genocide.

I also think that the academics who wrote that into the report have destroyed any credibility they would have, outside of the aforementioned leftist ideological camp they are pandering too.

On the other hand, I would defend your right to call it whatever you please, and I'd actually kill and die to defend that right, unlike the leftists who wrote this farcical report.

[ironstone]

This report is just an extremely long way to demand ever increasing amounts of money. Using the word genocide is insulting. No doubt natives have suffered at the hands of others in the past but will there ever be a time when anyone in their ranks will stand up and say it's about time to stop continually blaming others for all their ills and start taking responsibility for their own lives. Why not make an effort to stop the cycle of dependency on tax dollars.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/taxpayers-are-generous-first-nations

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/federal-budget-includes-5-billion-in-new-spending-on-indigenous-affairs

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/mark-milke/first-nations-and-taxpayers_b_4455894.html

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

gen·o·cide

/ˈjenəˌsīd/

 

1. the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.

    

   I think it's appropriate to say that genocide did take place during the conquest and colonization of the Americas. 

    

   However, I do agree that this report is self-serving, purposely exaggerated as it's a tactic to get the female voters to continue to vote for the Liberals. Haven't been on facebook in a while, but I can imagine the images being passed around by the suburban housewives.

    

   I can also see the extremists on the other side of this conversation - many of whom reside on this forum - trying to push aside the broken system which contributes to a broken culture and ethnic group that the European settlers created with their actions. 

    

   We need to acknowledge that we fucked the natives over throughout history and this was never okay. 

 

Can you cite specific examples of Europeans intentionally trying to slaughter and eliminate Indigenous peoples within Canadian borders?  It never happened.  Yes Cortez slaughtered Mayans in Mexico and took gold.  Yes smallpox killed off many Indigenous.  Yes Americans went after the Iroquois and other tribes in places like the Ohio valley, an extension of Manifest Destiny.  Up here the French fought alongside the Huron against the Iroquois and the English, their allies.  Many French interbred with Indigenous such as Algonquian, which is where we get the Métis in Canada.  For a while, in a misguided effort that seemed progressive at the time, religious orders and public schools tried to eliminate Indigenous languages and practices, considering them “savage”.  The Indian Act is a dated, racist act that has only persisted because Indigenous groups won’t agree on new terms that might threaten vested interests.  Jody Wilson Raybould refused to take on the Indigenous Affairs Ministry because she didn’t want to be called an Indian agent.

We hear about the 60’s scoop and babies being taken by Child and Family Services and how unfair this is, but then we also hear about rampant substance abuse and parental neglect on reserves. The sad truth is that two thirds of the culprits behind missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls are Indigenous.  

We’re going to get a two-tier justice system wherein predators of Indigenous women get harsher sentences, except that we also want to lower Indigenous incarceration rates, so what happens when all these Indigenous male predators are found guilty of abuses to Indigenous women?  You can’t have two tier justice because that’s unjust.  

Edited June 4, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

In their desperation to grandstand and pander to their ideological base, all these leftist academics have done is make the Indians into a political football in what is increasingly a non kinetic civil war.

Basically this "genocide" nonsense is being interpreted as an attack on Canada, and the Indians are in the camp upon which the counterattack is going to rain down upon, so I don't think the Indians are doing themselves any favours by aligning with these leftist lunatics.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised as to how naive they are, but ideological bomb throwing begets more of the same, and the Indians are the ones without any bomb shelters.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

In their desperation to grandstand and pander to their ideological base, all these leftist academics have done is make the Indians into a political football in what is increasingly a non kinetic civil war.

Basically this "genocide" nonsense is being interpreted as an attack on Canada, and the Indians are in the camp upon which the counterattack is going to rain down upon, so I don't think the Indians are doing themselves any favours by aligning with these leftist lunatics.

You’re right.  There’s a leftist strain in the Indigenous ranks that is hurting legitimate Indigenous causes, especially around resource development and self-government.  I also think the hereditary chiefs are a real danger to Indigenous interests.  Imagine having to accept the decisions of unelected chiefs who may be corrupt. Nevertheless, that’s their prerogative.  Self-government means taking full responsibility and being accountable to your people.  Some want money with no conditions attached, which is fine when the management is fair and competent.  What happens when it isn’t and there’s no recourse to outside assistance?  There has to be assistance and it too will have to be Indigenous.  

Or does it?  See how we’re creating (or they’re creating) self-perpetuating apartheid?  In the long run any kind of race-based separate system smacks of injustice.  I’ll grant that some of these ideas came from the white man, but not all of them.  And who wants to keep it going?   Not the non-Indigenous.  This is why I wouldn’t put more money into Indigenous Affairs or try to solve the problem for Indigenous peoples.  They have to solve it themselves with existing resources.  No one is stopping them from moving into private residences and attending public schools like most other people.  

Instead we prop up unsustainable communities in order to prevent “cultural genocide.”  No doubt some reserves are very successful, but some are not. Non-Indigenous people won’t decide to cut funding, but putting more money towards unsustainable communities is a mistake.  Canadians do not want children to suffer, so of course the clean water and basic infrastructure will come.  That doesn’t mean that all of these places are good places to live or should be maintained. 

[bush_cheney2004]

20 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

In their desperation to grandstand and pander to their ideological base, all these leftist academics have done is make the Indians into a political football in what is increasingly a non kinetic civil war.

Basically this "genocide" nonsense is being interpreted as an attack on Canada, and the Indians are in the camp upon which the counterattack is going to rain down upon, so I don't think the Indians are doing themselves any favours by aligning with these leftist lunatics.

 

Indeed...it is fascinating to watch from afar.     The "progressives" and their leftist (cultural marxist) ideology isn't happy unless Canada spirals into deeper pits of guilt and condemnation.

GGGGGG....ennnnnn....ohhhhh......ciiiiiiiide  ????   

Swimming in a pool of self-inflicted shame is a Canadian past time.

...all while fostering even more debilitating victimhood and despair for "aboriginals".

[Dougie93]

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 See how we’re creating (or they’re creating) self-perpetuating apartheid? 

Of course, it's all a farce, but that's why the vast majority of people simply wash their hands of it and move on.

I don't despise these leftist lunatics for its own sake, they do real damage,  not to me,  but I have no desire to see the Indians stomped on for it, the Indians are not my enemy.

[Zeitgeist]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

Of course, it's all a farce, but that's why the vast majority of people simply wash their hands of it and move on.

I don't despise these leftist lunatics for its own sake, they do real damage,  not to me,  but I have no desire to see the Indians stomped on for it, the Indians are not my enemy.

I want Indians to prosper like all Canadians.  I just don’t think the Rez is always the place to do it.  Enjoy the benefits of Indigenous status and follow the opportunities.  Just don’t make it about being given money, at least not more of it.

[Dougie93]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

I want Indians to prosper like all Canadians.  I just don’t think the Rez is always the place to do it.  Enjoy the benefits of Indigenous status and follow the opportunities.  Just don’t make it about being given money, at least not more of it.

Thing is, these Indian girls are so green,  it's not so simple for them to simply flee,  because when they end up in the big city, they are guys waiting at the bus station to prey upon them there too.

Not to mention that the time when these girls get killed, is usually when they try to flee, either the spouse kills them on the spot, or they track them down to where they fled and kill them there.