Climate Change Action NOW

[Dougie93]

19 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Armies act the way generals and politicians who are miles from harm's way dictate they should act.

Not in the Canadian Army I joined, we acted entirely in accordance with the example set by the Non Commissioned Officers at the Royal Canadian Regiment Battleschool.

To include disregarding any unlawful orders and taking the initiative as I saw fit, under the doctrine of Mission Command.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Dougie93

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

People act, individually, on a scale from selfish to selfless.  Group mechanics may vary.  How a nation responds to 9/11, Pearl Harbour, Climate Change isn't prescriptive, even if you agree on the general grain of human nature.

No, it's not a matter of course that it be bad.  The world, generally speaking, acted very well when the Nazis showed exactly what they were all about.  They could have done a lot better had they had the balls to act a lot sooner.  Maybe saved a few lives.

I daresay the world will eventually act upon Climate Change.  But it's a different problem than a war.  The effects are so long term, and the hysteresis so large, that by the time they do, it will (actually, really, not just at someone's say so to try and scare up some action) be too late.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

Not in the Canadian Army I joined, we acted entirely in accordance with the example set by the Non Commissioned Officers at the Royal Canadian Regiment Battleschool.

To include disregarding any unlawful orders and taking the initiative as I saw fit, under the doctrine of Mission Command.

Yeah, I was talking about Dieppe.

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Yeah, I was talking about Dieppe.

Operation Jubilee was not commanded from afar, the Canadian contingent was commanded by Major-General John Hamilton Roberts aboard HMS Calpe in situ.

[Dougie93]

It's important to make the distinction that politicians and staff officers are not actually in command of anything.

Once the mission has been articulated and confirmed to be in accordance with national and international law and the laws of armed conflict, the chain of command is actually from the Commander-in-Chief at Buckingham Palace straight to the senior combatant commander on the ground, usually the Brigade Commander in this day and age.

If some staff officer from NDHQ got on the satphone and started trying to give me orders in the field, I would just say "unknown callsign stay off these means" and then ignore him.

Even General Vance is not in command, he's the Chief of Staff,  it's not a command position.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Dougie93

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Operation Jubilee was not commanded from afar, the Canadian contingent was commanded by Major-General John Hamilton Roberts aboard HMS Calpe in situ.

It doesn't matter.  Who decided to do it in the first place, and why?  (rhetorical question) Specific examples are beside the main point, which is that individuals act in a certain way, and herds act differently.

 

10 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

It's important to make the distinction that politicians and staff officers are not actually in command of anything.

Once the mission has been articulated and confirmed to be in accordance with national and international law and the laws of armed conflict, the chain of command is actually from the Commander-in-Chief at Buckingham Palace straight to the senior combatant commander on the ground, usually the Brigade Commander in this day and age.

If some staff officer from NDHQ got on the satphone and started trying to give me orders in the field, I would just say "unknown callsign stay off these means" and then ignore him.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on the politician and the issue, politicians (elected or not) seem to have the final say on stuff.  If HM can get everyone to work together on AGW, she probably should get on it sooner rather than later.

[Dougie93]

Operation Jubilee was decided by Vice-Admiral Lord Mountbatten at Combined Operations Headquarters.

And bear in mind what the (above Top Secret classified) mission was; there was an Enigma Machine at Dieppe, the entire operation was in support of the 30th Intelligence Assault Unit and Ultra at Bletchley Park.

Lord Mountbatten knew what he was doing and it was a "war winning" mission, that simply couldn't be disclosed at the time, nor for decades after.

Despite being publicly castigated at a failure, Operation Jubilee was in fact more important than Operation Overlord.

The civilian authority of course has the final say, but that doesn't put them in command, all they can do is articulate the mission, after that, the Combatant Commander decides how it is to be executed.

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Dougie93

[Charles Anthony]

Folks,

Avoid thread drift.