How do we force immigrants to assimilate?

[Rue]

4 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

Did the french assimilate to Canada?  No, Canada assimilated to the french in Quebec.  The French even have some shared values as the english such as religion, sports, art and music etc.  Have the Chinese assimilated in Vancouver?  No, Vancouver/Canada has assimilated to the Chinese and the Chinese share very little (if any) common interests with the west.  The East Indians have been able to somewhat assimilate, but given the opportunity, they'd prefer to keep to their own.  Mexicans in the US have assimilated somewhat because they have some common values shared, but like the french, when given the opportunity, they'll keep to their own, carve out an area that is Mexican and speaking Spanish and leave it at that.  Many parts of the southern US, have assimilated to a Mexican culture.  Muslims have never assimilated anywhere...and they simply wont.  In Europe, the muslims have their own muslim areas and as expected are pushing for self governance and have even gone the route of trying to annex parts of Paris.  The muslim world has never brought a single thing of value to the modern world as a whole, not in science, technology, health, art, sport, food, culture, anthropology...nothing.  They sell a shitload of oil and use that money to kill people - mostly their own people, that's about it.  Muslims reject and destroy everything that we value.  

No, the more radically different a culture is, the less chance it will have to assimilate - and there is no culture farther from western values than Islam.  They don't want to assimilate and they don't have to. 

Yes on your third sentence from the bottom, not necessarily to all your other comments.

[Machjo]

19 minutes ago, Argus said:

The first Sikh I ever met was back in college. Dave Singh. I had no idea what a sikh was. He had somewhat browner skin. Aside from that, there was nothing to tell him apart from any other Canadian.

How come every Sikh who runs for office, every MP and MPP wears a turban and has a beard? 

Is it okay to wear a turban with no beard or grow a beard without a turban, or is the that particular combination that bothers you?

[WestCanMan]

6 hours ago, dialamah said:

In any case, immigrant unemployment runs at 6.4%, 1.4% more than the unemployment among people born in Canada as a whole.   Clearly, most immigrants gain employment, just as most Canadians gain employment.    

Are you just talking about regular immigrants, or does that stat include refugees? 

Also, when people aren't actively seeking work they don't show up in unemployment statistics. 

I don't put any stock in your stat equating to "93.6% of adult refugees are no longer receiving free food, clothing, medical, money and/or shelter after ten years here".

Quote

The argument that "immigrants come to Canada because they are lazy, don't want to work and only want to collect because our social support system is so generous" is simply not accurate.

 I don't think that anyone is saying that "regular immigrants" (for lack of the proper terminology) are lazy, or that they don't assimilate.

The thread title refers to "immigration" I think that it's more specifically geared towards refugees because they can get into the country without money, employment options or language skills.

People who come here based on regular immigration don't just arrive without skills or a clearly-stated goal of how they plan to contribute to society. Almost all of them that come here have a plan to fully integrate into society. 

 

[egghead]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

The first Sikh I ever met was back in college. Dave Singh. I had no idea what a sikh was. He had somewhat browner skin. Aside from that, there was nothing to tell him apart from any other Canadian.

How come every Sikh who runs for office, every MP and MPP wears a turban and has a beard? 

Cutting hair is forbidden in Sikhism for those who have baptised. So, your "first encountered" Sikh was not the REAL sikh yet 

Edited May 16, 2019 by egghead

[Billious]

What a silly hope. Attempting to force people is a criminal tactic. I came to Canada in 1953 because I WANTED to become a citizen of this society. I liked Canadian ideals & I wasn't disappointed.

Today we are attempting to attract workers who have already acquired the skills we seek to add. Forcing them to assimilate is a sure way of upsetting. Rather set about doing the  right & likely costly things here that make assimilating desirable. An expense worth incurring. When I came I had first acquired the mindset that I wanted to come not at the decision of Canada but at the decision of me. These new immigrants need be shown the many advantages of assimilating quickly & not in bureaucratic language but in the everyday language of Canadians. 

Canada is setting about concentrating on educational advances (hurrah) I hope we include melding in the  children & adults of new immigrants.

I am not a teacher but a retired professional engineer.

[eyeball]

10 hours ago, Rue said:

I think Wes' s points was when government did not provide as much assistance to immigrants which all of Canada is really, people could not rely on government, and had no choice but to swim and sink, so we need to know which government services have gone too far in stripping people of feeling they have any need to change.

This point seems to completely forget when immigrants to Canada were granted land when they immigrated here.  Maybe we should reserve judgement on the worthiness of immigrants now until they're given similar sorts of opportunities to sink or swim.

Never mind the wealthier immigrants who were granted areas the size of provinces.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Rue said:

Actually the one who ran in my riding for the federal Tories did not. You of course have made a generalization.

Well its a generalization based on the fact the ones most in the news, like Navdeep Bains, Harjit Sajjan,  and Jagmeet Singh wear them. Not to mention Randeep Sarai, the idiot from the India trip. 

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Machjo said:

Is it okay to wear a turban with no beard or grow a beard without a turban, or is the that particular combination that bothers you?

The turban bothers me. It's foreign to this country. We don't wear religious costumes here and never have.

And before you ask, I don't think much of the Hasidics stupid ass outfits and goofy hair either.

[Argus]

54 minutes ago, Billious said:

What a silly hope. Attempting to force people is a criminal tactic. I came to Canada in 1953 because I WANTED to become a citizen of this society. I liked Canadian ideals & I wasn't disappointed.

Today we are attempting to attract workers who have already acquired the skills we seek to add.

Which is a dumb idea in the first place. We should be training our own people.

54 minutes ago, Billious said:

Forcing them to assimilate is a sure way of upsetting.

I couldn't care less.

54 minutes ago, Billious said:

 These new immigrants need be shown the many advantages of assimilating quickly & not in bureaucratic language but in the everyday language of Canadians. 

Which is what I said I want. 

[Machjo]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

The turban bothers me. It's foreign to this country. We don't wear religious costumes here and never have.

And before you ask, I don't think much of the Hasidics stupid ass outfits and goofy hair either.

Don't you know anything about Canadian history?

What about indigenous spiritual regalia? What about priests and nuns in their outfits?

[Argus]

4 minutes ago, Machjo said:

Don't you know anything about Canadian history?

What about indigenous spiritual regalia? What about priests and nuns in their outfits?

People can wear whatever they want when attending or conducting religious rites. And if clerics want to wear some kind of uniform or costume, okay. I don't have a problem with the pope wearing his tall, funny hat in the Vatican. But if every baptized Catholic started wearing those hats on the streets it would be pretty damn hard to take them seriously.

And I happen to be one. 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Argus

[Machjo]

29 minutes ago, Argus said:

People can wear whatever they want when attending or conducting religious rites. And if clerics want to wear some kind of uniform or costume, okay. I don't have a problem with the pope wearing his tall, funny hat in the Vatican. But if every baptized Catholic started wearing those hats on the streets it would be pretty damn hard to take them seriously.

And I happen to be one. 

What about the Amish? they don't wear turbans.

[Argus]

26 minutes ago, Machjo said:

What about the Amish? they don't wear turbans.

The Amish isolate themselves from the rest of society and live in their own little world. There also aren't very many of them.

[Rue]

On 5/15/2019 at 8:21 PM, egghead said:

Cutting hair is forbidden in Sikhism for those who have baptised. So, your "first encountered" Sikh was not the REAL sikh yet 

 

There still is a belief that cutting your hair robs strength. This comes from our primal origins wear loss of the was a symptom of illness.

The notion we were made in the vision of a furry entity is illogical. If we are originated it would be from a preceding source of energy.

The belief there is a God we look like also suggests all othervforns of lifecwere not made in God's image. That would also be illogical not to mention absurd. If God has a human face then God has a face of both genders and call forms of life which means we have a huge choice of images to choose from not just the one that looks like ZZ Top.

[Zeitgeist]

On 5/15/2019 at 9:31 PM, Argus said:

The turban bothers me. It's foreign to this country. We don't wear religious costumes here and never have.

And before you ask, I don't think much of the Hasidics stupid ass outfits and goofy hair either.

But it’s an unnecessary imposition on religious freedom to prevent a Sikh from wearing a turban, as it is one of the “5 K’s” of Sikhism, like wearing a kirpan (dagger).  Sikhs have played a huge warrior role in Indian society and internationally.  Dougie is right on that.  Live and let live, I say.  I’m not bothered by different forms of dress as long as no one is oppressed in the process.  

[Nefarious Banana]

Isn't India a country of racists and religious intolerance ?

Caste system, untouchables, etc.

Also, the turban trumps the DOT motorcycle helmet in BC. Would ICBC payout a turban wearing biker that suffered a head injury. ICBC rates soar ever higher.

Sadly, common sense is trumped by the politically correct . . . 

[Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Isn't India a country of racists and religious intolerance ?

Caste system, untouchables, etc.

Also, the turban trumps the DOT motorcycle helmet in BC. Would ICBC payout a turban wearing biker that suffered a head injury. ICBC rates soar ever higher.

Sadly, common sense is trumped by the politically correct . . . 

You’re telling me a helmet can’t be developed for turbans in this day and age?

[Nefarious Banana]

16 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re telling me a helmet can’t be developed for turbans in this day and age?

They do not have to wear a helmet . . . . approved in the courts. Freedom of religion.

[Michael Hardner]

On 5/15/2019 at 10:09 PM, Machjo said:

What about the Amish? they don't wear turbans.

I hate it when an Amish blows by me on the 401 driving one of those Japanese superbikes   his straw hat flopping in the wind ....

[egghead]

15 hours ago, Rue said:

 

There still is a belief that cutting your hair robs strength. This comes from our primal origins wear loss of the was a symptom of illness.

The notion we were made in the vision of a furry entity is illogical. If we are originated it would be from a preceding source of energy.

The belief there is a God we look like also suggests all othervforns of lifecwere not made in God's image. That would also be illogical not to mention absurd. If God has a human face then God has a face of both genders and call forms of life which means we have a huge choice of images to choose from not just the one that looks like ZZ Top.

Did you know patrick roy never skate across the red-line?

OK, I am a simple man with simple mind. I believe modern day religion shall be life attitude / life realm (Ya, similar to apple users) only.

Edited May 17, 2019 by egghead

[WestCanMan]

11 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Isn't India a country of racists and religious intolerance ?

Caste system, untouchables, etc.

No more than most other places. 

The caste system that you're talking about involves people of the same religion and the same race. Can that really be considered bigoted? I'd call it religious stupidity. People can be as dumb as they want within their own circle. It's only when they inflict their views on another race or religion that it becomes everyone's problem. 

Quote

Also, the turban trumps the DOT motorcycle helmet in BC. Would ICBC payout a turban wearing biker that suffered a head injury. ICBC rates soar ever higher.

Sadly, common sense is trumped by the politically correct . . . 

Sikhs fought for the allies, and very well,  wearing turbans. If it's that important to them then they can ride motorbikes with them on as far as I'm concerned.

As far as ICBC rates because of helmets, it's not like having no helmet means that you'll probably get a long-term injury and tons of money. It usually means that you're dead and you get nothing. 

[WestCanMan]

11 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re telling me a helmet can’t be developed for turbans in this day and age?

If they develop a poop-emoji helmet I'm gonna buy a motorcycle. I'll ride around wearing a jacket that says "vote for Trudeau".

[Goddess]

8 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

11 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Isn't India a country of racists and religious intolerance ?

Caste system, untouchables, etc.

No more than most other places. 

Google Graham Steins.

[Argus]

13 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

But it’s an unnecessary imposition on religious freedom to prevent a Sikh from wearing a turban, as it is one of the “5 K’s” of Sikhism, like wearing a kirpan (dagger).  Sikhs have played a huge warrior role in Indian society and internationally.  Dougie is right on that.  Live and let live, I say.  I’m not bothered by different forms of dress as long as no one is oppressed in the process.  

I'm not saying we should ban Sikhs from wearing turbans, just that I think it's goofy. And anyone who won't cut their hair and wraps it in a turban every damn day of their life has a screw loose, as far as I'm concerned.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

No more than most other places. 

India is the most racist country in the world, from the studies and comparisons I've seen.