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 Canada is civilised/works because people cross tribal lines - when voting.

In 1896,  more than a century ago, many anglo WASPs voted for a guy named Laurier, a Roman-Catholic, who spoke French as a first language.

In 2015, in Quebec, many "Roman Catholic" francophone people voted for a guy named Harper, a Protestant, who spoke English as a first language.

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For more than a century, we Canadians have sometimes voted for someone who is not in our own tribe.

Edited by August1991
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53 minutes ago, John Otis said:

That's what I'm trying to say on this other thread but many over there fear this multiculturalism or this tribal lines you speak of.

About 95% of African-Americans voted for a candidate associated with Barack Obama because he was, well, black.

How many Sikhs in Canada will vote NDP simply because of Jagmeet Singh?

Yet, in 2015, about 50% of people in Quebec City (to pick an example) voted for someone associated with Stephen Harper. And in 1896, about 40% of people in Ontario voted for someone associated with Wilfrid Laurier.

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I don't know whether it is more remarkable that WASPs in Ontario choose to vote for a franco Roman-Catholic or that people in Quebec choose to vote for an anglo WASP.  It is simply remarkable that Canadians, for at least a century, in large numbers, are willing to vote for someone outside their religious/racial/linguistic tribe.

Edited by August1991
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1 hour ago, August1991 said:

It is simply remarkable that Canadians, for at least a century, in large numbers, are willing to vote for someone outside their religious/racial/linguistic tribe.

Unfortunately, taxme and a few others on that other thread won't see it that way.

 

To them, all it does is turn the whites into a minority in a land that they stole and take away jobs and opportunities that should be given to people who can do it regardless of race. 

 

They see multiculturalism as evil.

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On 4/24/2019 at 6:54 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Partially true....Barack Obama is actually multi-racial, having a mother who was quite white.

The father of our current PM had Catholic parents, but a mother who was Anglo. Whatever. 

When did Episcopalians ever vote for a Roman Catholic? (Once, in 1960 -for Kennedy.)

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In 1867, many Church of England people in Ontario voted for a Roman Catholic, John S. Macdonald.

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As I argue in my OP, Canada is great/civilised because Canadians are willing to vote across tribal/religious/linguisitic/racial lines.

IOW, the true test of a civilised society is when:

-people in a "minority" freely choose a candidate from the majority

-people in the majority openly choose a candidate from the minority

  

Edited by August1991
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On 4/24/2019 at 6:54 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Partially true....Barack Obama is actually multi-racial, having a mother who was quite white.

B_C, you Americans got us on the right path.

But we fellow North Americans helped you.

=====

Mais, j'aimerais en fait une véritable Amérique. Je vous remercie.

Edited by August1991
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Joe Clark, Brian Mulroney - even Andrew Scheer are all Catholic.

Pearson was Protestant. But Stephen Harper was Conservative, Protestant.

Diefenbaker, also. Bennett too.

For an Anglo Protestant politician to get votes from a  Franco Catholic, it's hard. 

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Imagine, as a minority, you vote/choose for someone who is not your religion, who does not speak your language well -despite another candidate who is your religion/speaks your language -in your own country.

Such is Canada. We do it.

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On 4/28/2019 at 6:48 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Is it still though ?  Quebec seems to be making a point of saying they are a culture separate from their religion, eg. finally removing the cross from the national assembly.

By removing the cross from the National Assembly, do you think that most French Quebecers (les Québécois) feel any less/more civilised?

Do minorities in Quebec feel any less or more secure?

=====

IMHO, there is a tremendous misunderstanding of our history.

Edited by August1991
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8 hours ago, August1991 said:

1. By removing the cross from the National Assembly, do you think that most French Quebecers (les Québécois) feel any less/more civilised?

2. Do minorities in Quebec feel any less or more secure?

3. IMHO, there is a tremendous misunderstanding of our history.

1a. "feel" is an emotional experience... "civilized" is state of order that is validated by an intellectual assessment... So you can "feel civilized" as you can "feel smart" but it's kind of a oxymoron.   Let's proceed with that acknowledgement and I will assume that "feel civilized" is a matter of the Quebecers self-perceiving an identity of 'progressive' and possibly post-religious society.

1b. I think that Quebec may be the western democracy that has gone the farthest in separating church and state.  They are making a choice to actually remove the old markings of religion from their democracy, which even the rest of Canada hasn't tried too hard to do.    Amazingly, Canada's fashionable anti-sexist party, the Liberals, burned a lyrical monstrosity into our own national anthems in order to remove 'all thy sons command' for STILL has 'God keep our land glorious and free!'

https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/anthems-canada.html

I feel the motivations, though, are split and you have an unholy alliance between high-minded athiest leftist types and low-minded brown people haters that are making this idea viable.

2.  Imagine if we asked them.  Imagine if our democracy cared about such things.

3. History is a vast cow brimming with milk.  Politicians go there to get creamy propaganda to bring back to the people.  You live in Quebec, so you understand cows.

 

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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1b. I think that Quebec may be the western democracy that has gone the farthest in separating church and state.  They are making a choice to actually remove the old markings of religion from their democracy, which even the rest of Canada hasn't tried too hard to do.    Amazingly, Canada's fashionable anti-sexist party, the Liberals, burned a lyrical monstrosity into our own national anthems in order to remove 'all thy sons command' for STILL has 'God keep our land glorious and free!'

Our Constitution Act states:

CANADIAN CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS

 Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:

It's intended to refer to all religions, but leaves some question about whether one is free not to believe in God.

It doesn't keep me awake with worry. Lol 

The Oath of Citizenship contains no such reference:

I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

The references to the Queen are sometimes controversial, particularly in Quebec but also to other Canadians including some immigrants from countries devastated by colonialism. (EG, India that fought for and gained back independence from the Crown.). But it's a reality we live with that has survived court challenges.

I don't think that keeps anyone awake with worry much either. Lol 

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On 4/24/2019 at 3:54 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Partially true....Barack Obama is actually multi-racial, having a mother who was quite white.

But why do blacks in America keep calling themselves African Americans when probably 99% of blacks living in America were never born in Africa. Are blacks American or are they not? People from, say, Britain do not refer to themselves as British Americans. Just curious. 

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On 4/23/2019 at 10:19 PM, August1991 said:

 Canada is civilised/works because people cross tribal lines - when voting.

In 1896,  more than a century ago, many anglo WASPs voted for a guy named Laurier, a Roman-Catholic, who spoke French as a first language.

In 2015, in Quebec, many "Roman Catholic" francophone people voted for a guy named Harper, a Protestant, who spoke English as a first language.

=====

For more than a century, we Canadians have sometimes voted for someone who is not in our own tribe.

Maybe you can tell me as to why you think that Canada is great? I have been asking this question many times here, and no one will tell me as to what Canada is so great about? So, can you tell me as to why you think that Canada is great? Just wondering. Over to you. 

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11 hours ago, taxme said:

Maybe you can tell me as to why you think that Canada is great?

It is a melting pot of numerous cultures with numerous nationalities that are able to live and work together in harmony and build a great Canada today and a greater one tomorrow.

 

But of course, there are some who would disagree with this, thankfully though, they are just a minority.

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13 hours ago, Mike Utinne said:

It is a melting pot of numerous cultures with numerous nationalities that are able to live and work together in harmony and build a great Canada today and a greater one tomorrow.

 

But of course, there are some who would disagree with this, thankfully though, they are just a minority.

The melting pot is not working at all in Canada. It is just the opposite that is happening. Many of these numerous nationalities are now able to live in Canada as they did back home thanks to our leftist liberal multicultural program and agenda. Asians and East Indians alone can do everything that they once did from whence they came. They have their own schools, restaurants, religious buildings, TV, radio, newspapers and businesses and can pretty much carry on with only having the inconvenience of having to learn some English. And the British/European host taxpaying people of Canada are paying them and helping them to keep and promote their own culture and language in Canada which is allowing them to then set up ethnic zones where they all can congregate and live in their own little ethnic communities. And as their population gets bigger they move into other zones where they set up shop and take over. Mixing dozens of different languages and cultures and religions will not promote harmony but in time will promote disunity. Just my opinion of course. Works for me. :D

I think in time this minority will wake up and become the majority if they want to save Canada from becoming and looking like a third world country. Just saying. 

Edited by taxme
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On 4/24/2019 at 1:19 AM, August1991 said:

 Canada is civilised/works because people cross tribal lines - when voting.

For the most part, it's only 'old stock' anglos who cross tribal lines. Immigrants vote for whoever is the candidate from their race/ethnicity. Francophones usually vote for the French guy.

 

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7 hours ago, Argus said:

For the most part, it's only 'old stock' anglos who cross tribal lines. Immigrants vote for whoever is the candidate from their race/ethnicity. Francophones usually vote for the French guy.

 

Strongly disagree.

Diefenbaker, first step.

Mulroney? They did it.

Harper - done deal.

======

According to Trudeau Snr: The measure of a civilised society is how the majority treats the minority.

According to me: The measure of a civilsed society is how the minority votes for a majority candidate when given the choice of a minority candidate.

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10 hours ago, Argus said:

For the most part, it's only 'old stock' anglos who cross tribal lines. Immigrants vote for whoever is the candidate from their race/ethnicity. Francophones usually vote for the French guy.

 

Argus,

You make a good point. It is possibly easy for the "majority" to vote for the "minority".

(WASPs voting for Chretien.)

But imagine someone in the minority voting for a majority candidate - when there is a minority alternative.

People in Quebec voted for Stephen Harper, an Anglo/Protestant candidate - when there was a Tremblay/Liberal/Catholic alternative.

  ======

This is what makes Canada great.

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3 hours ago, August1991 said:

Strongly disagree.

Diefenbaker, first step.

Mulroney? They did it.

Harper - done deal.

======

According to Trudeau Snr: The measure of a civilised society is how the majority treats the minority.

According to me: The measure of a civilsed society is how the minority votes for a majority candidate when given the choice of a minority candidate.

Well, thanks to snr, Trudeau, the minority now rules the majority in Canada today. Now the minority treats the majority with total contempt. 

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5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Which is evidently their undoing. Stupid fucking anglos.

The anglophones in Canada are their own worse enemy. They appear to be out to make themselves become extinct in Canada. It should not be too much longer for that to happen. Just saying. 

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14 hours ago, August1991 said:

Strongly disagree.

Diefenbaker, first step.

Mulroney? They did it.

Diefenbaker won the 1957 election by, according to wiki 

Abandoning their usual strategy of trying to make major inroads in Liberal-dominated Quebec, the Tories focused on winning seats in the other provinces. They were successful; though they gained few seats in Quebec, they won 112 seats overall to the Liberals' 105.

Then he won the 1958 election in a landslide - against Lester Pearson - another anglo, and also defeated him in the following election.

Mulroney also faced an anglo - John Turner.

Quote

Harper - done deal.

Harper never got more than a handful of seats in Quebec. The lack of interest by Quebecers in an anglo from outside Quebec was best demonstrated when, after years of effort on his part to woo Quebec, including declaring it a distinct society, Quebecers turned en masse away from him because of some cuts to a few minor arts grants. A great hue and cry arose that the "Maudit anglais' was threatening Quebec's glorious culture of welfare artistry!

Quote

According to me: The measure of a civilsed society is how the minority votes for a majority candidate when given the choice of a minority candidate.

Not something Quebec has ever done much of.

Edited by Argus
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On 5/2/2019 at 1:29 PM, Argus said:

Diefenbaker won the 1957 election by, according to wiki 

Abandoning their usual strategy of trying to make major inroads in Liberal-dominated Quebec, the Tories focused on winning seats in the other provinces. They were successful; though they gained few seats in Quebec, they won 112 seats overall to the Liberals' 105.

Then he won the 1958 election in a landslide - against Lester Pearson - another anglo, and also defeated him in the following election.

Mulroney also faced an anglo - John Turner.

Harper never got more than a handful of seats in Quebec. The lack of interest by Quebecers in an anglo from outside Quebec was best demonstrated when, after years of effort on his part to woo Quebec, including declaring it a distinct society, Quebecers turned en masse away from him because of some cuts to a few minor arts grants. A great hue and cry arose that the "Maudit anglais' was threatening Quebec's glorious culture of welfare artistry!

Not something Quebec has ever done much of.

Diefenbaker won in 1958 because he made a deal with Duplessis.

John Turner was a Catholic.

Jack Layton?  (WASP,  NDP) won many seats in Quebec -only against Ignatieff in 2011.

Stephen Harper (WASP,  Conservative) never got more than a handful of seats in Quebec? But he did - in 2015, against Trudeau.

====

QED. 

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