Brexit from the European Union.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

So how many votes should there be....best 2 out of 3...3 out of 5...or 4 out of 7 ?

I don't know. What if the Russians interfere?

[taxme]

15 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Oh bollocks.  The people were fed a line, and now they know.  If they get another vote they can vote the same way, can't they?  If they want to.

The British people that voted to stay in the EU were the ones that were being given the line or the lies by their lying political leaders. The sad part is that the ones who still want to stay with the EU are people who believe in a global one world order government. They are definitely not pro British patriotic nationalists. When a country needs to allow some other country like Brussels to run their own affairs, then that country deserves the shafting that they get. Thanks to being a member of the EU, the British people have also been forced to accept the EU plans for more non-western massive immigration into their country. Britain is having a huge problem with those non-western immigrants, especially with the Muslim ones. My opinion. 

[taxme]

15 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I don't know. What if the Russians interfere?

Maybe the Russians should interfere. Maybe things could get better. Hey, you never know, eh?  

[taxme]

19 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

The people of the UK must resist, just as the people of Canada must. Stand up and speak out against the globalists. But we are far too passive in Canada when it comes to protesting against government. The British are more vocal and more politically active. The French are going right wing now, they have endorsed Marine Le Pen. Her right-wing party won decisively over Macron, who is a liberal progressive, in the EU parliamentary elections. The French have spoken. I know the French are assholes, but they don't screw around wasting time like Canada. They want to retake control of their own country. At least they brave enough to take a bold first step away from the EU.

Vive la France, and God Save the Queen.

 

I think that one of the main reasons why Canadians are so passive is because they are not getting the other side of the news story. They only get to hear and read what the leftist lieberal Canadian fake and lying media and their elected politically correct puppet on a string politicians want Canadians to hear and read and to never get to know the other side of the news story. Both are controlled by the international globalist elite deep state like George Soros. Trudeau is great buddies with Soros. That is one scary thing indeed.

Even the french in Quebec have more get up and go than English Canada will or ever have. If the french see their language and culture under attack they will fight back to protect it and will never get to be called racists for doing so, where the Anglophones in the rest of Canada will not say or do a dam thing to try and protect and speak out for their language or culture, and if they did by chance they will get called racists, and they will take it without a whimper. They seem to be always asleep at the dummy switch.  

Macron is a puppet and he was set up by the globalists. For someone who no one ever heard of suddenly comes along and finds himself the President of France, within six months, is a miracle, if you believe in miracles. Someone had to be pulling some strings here for Macron. Globalists come to mind. 

"Vive le quebec libre". God save Canada, if that is possible now. 

[-TSS-]

All politicians are puppets but with Macron it is so obvious that even the most naive idealists can see it.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, taxme said:

Maybe the Russians should interfere. Maybe things could get better. Hey, you never know, eh?  

They's need something better than novichok.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, taxme said:

The British people that voted to stay in the EU were the ones that were being given the line or the lies by their lying political leaders. The sad part is that the ones who still want to stay with the EU are people who believe in a global one world order government. They are definitely not pro British patriotic nationalists. When a country needs to allow some other country like Brussels to run their own affairs, then that country deserves the shafting that they get. Thanks to being a member of the EU, the British people have also been forced to accept the EU plans for more non-western massive immigration into their country. Britain is having a huge problem with those non-western immigrants, especially with the Muslim ones. My opinion. 

Granted, we are both expressing opinions.

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 5/26/2019 at 11:01 PM, bcsapper said:

Current EU elections in the UK seeing an almost 50/50 split between pro Brexit and anti Brexit parties.  It would have been interesting to see an actual "Remain" party form in the way Nigel Farage put together the Brexit party to focus the opinion more.  Nevertheless, Jeremy Corbyn has come out in favour of either a second referendum or a general election based on the performance of the two main parties.

Corbyn is a Brexiter who is mainly interested in becoming PM. His support for Remain is a political move designed to placate his party.

[SpankyMcFarland]

One of the lessons of Brexit is how painful bilateral trade negotiations are these days for the weaker party. Britain has the second largest economy in the EU but it will have to struggle with the US after this current ordeal is over. For smaller European countries the EU offers strength in numbers. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by SpankyMcFarland

[taxme]

On 5/31/2019 at 5:32 PM, bcsapper said:

Granted, we are both expressing opinions.

There is no need for another referendum on Brexit. The deed is done. The vote has been taken. To have another referendum is like saying that we will keep on trying until the no Brexit people win. Another referendum is ridiculous to say the least. 

[Zeitgeist]

As long as Brexit contains a provision that Brits can continue to live and work anywhere in the EU, I’m fine with it.  It can probably be called “membership in the EU”.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, taxme said:

There is no need for another referendum on Brexit. The deed is done. The vote has been taken. To have another referendum is like saying that we will keep on trying until the no Brexit people win. Another referendum is ridiculous to say the least. 

Not if they told people the truth this time.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Brexit simply wasn’t worth the trouble. British sovereignty will be curtailed in myriad trade deals anyway and the stability of the UK itself has been seriously undermined by this outburst of English nationalism. 

[taxme]

12 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Not if they told people the truth this time.

What truth were the people not told? Over. 

[taxme]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Brexit simply wasn’t worth the trouble. British sovereignty will be curtailed in myriad trade deals anyway and the stability of the UK itself has been seriously undermined by this outburst of English nationalism. 

For the millions of Brits who voted for Brexit, and won to leave the EU, they did not seem to mind or feel that it was more trouble than what it was worth. They wanted out of the EU. Those that voted to leave the EU must know what the consequences might be but it did not deter them. Trade will go on between Britain and other countries even if Brexit happens in the UK. The world is just not going to say goodbye Britain. All countries and it's people need to become more nationalist and keep their sovereignty unless one is a globalist and wants to be ruled over by a one world order globalist bunch of dictators like those in the EU. I am all for English nationalism and I am all for Canadian nationalism. I do not want a bunch of globalist communist dictators running and ruling over and ruining Canada. Nigel Farage can tell you all about what is not so great about Britain being in the EU. Farage knows a lot more about the non-elected by we the people EU members than you and me. Check him out on the internet and what Nigel has to say about the evils of the EU. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

3 hours ago, taxme said:

For the millions of Brits who voted for Brexit, and won to leave the EU, they did not seem to mind or feel that it was more trouble than what it was worth. They wanted out of the EU. Those that voted to leave the EU must know what the consequences might be but it did not deter them. Trade will go on between Britain and other countries even if Brexit happens in the UK. The world is just not going to say goodbye Britain. All countries and it's people need to become more nationalist and keep their sovereignty unless one is a globalist and wants to be ruled over by a one world order globalist bunch of dictators like those in the EU. I am all for English nationalism and I am all for Canadian nationalism. I do not want a bunch of globalist communist dictators running and ruling over and ruining Canada. Nigel Farage can tell you all about what is not so great about Britain being in the EU. Farage knows a lot more about the non-elected by we the people EU members than you and me. Check him out on the internet and what Nigel has to say about the evils of the EU. 

Trade will go on but there will be more barriers to trade in addition to tariffs i.e. the thousands of regulations that govern EU products will be a significant obstacle. Being for English, as opposed to British, nationalism is inherently destabilizing to the UK. It's like being in favour of Albertan nationalism rather than Canadian. And the Brits are going to find out what we know already - that the Americans are extremely difficult to do deals with. Every trade deal and international agreement surrenders some sovereignty. You've gotta serve somebody...which Farage and his ilk are about to find out. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by SpankyMcFarland

[-TSS-]

Not all the people who voted for remain are sore losers. Some of them want the result of the referendum to be implemented in order for life to go on from this seemingly endless bog this issue has led the UK into.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, taxme said:

What truth were the people not told? Over. 

I posted a reply to this, but, you know, gremlins.

Anyway, it was basically a google page of Brexit lies.  I could open them all and link to them all, but I figured you could just read them from the link I posted.

[Argus]

20 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Not if they told people the truth this time.

The primary reason why people voted Brexit has little to do with economies and EU interference in rules and regulations but of feeling as though too many foreigners are coming into the UK and settling there, and that the UK had no ability to stop it. This was particularly emotional given the migration taking place at the time, as people could easily see that once all those people inevitably got their EU citizenship a big chunk would be coming to the UK. All those people in Calais trying to sneak onto trucks would just buy a bus ticket and show up at the local welfare office.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

The primary reason why people voted Brexit has little to do with economies and EU interference in rules and regulations but of feeling as though too many foreigners are coming into the UK and settling there, and that the UK had no ability to stop it. This was particularly emotional given the migration taking place at the time, as people could easily see that once all those people inevitably got their EU citizenship a big chunk would be coming to the UK. All those people in Calais trying to sneak onto trucks would just buy a bus ticket and show up at the local welfare office.

 

I'm sure it was a factor.  I'd bet the general feeling Brits have towards all the less important bits of the continent on the other side of the Channel was just as much a reason.  Not to mention the 350 million pounds a week the NHS was going to get. 

The most egregious untruth though, was that it would work.  Allowing people to believe there was any way the EU was going to let any other country think leaving would be a good idea.

Edited July 27, 2019 by bcsapper

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, bcsapper said:

 I'd bet the general feeling Brits have towards all the less important bits of the continent on the other side of the Channel was just as much a reason.  

Maybe this should be the theme of the times: 'general feeling' versus 'thinking'.  'Feelings' are valid but they shouldn't govern us.  If the Brexiteers put out a story of a Polish immigrant who committed a horrible murder that's not a starting point for discussing trade policy.  But turning every policy discussion into a narrative has turned public discussion away from objective discussion.

[Zeitgeist]

10 hours ago, Argus said:

The primary reason why people voted Brexit has little to do with economies and EU interference in rules and regulations but of feeling as though too many foreigners are coming into the UK and settling there, and that the UK had no ability to stop it. This was particularly emotional given the migration taking place at the time, as people could easily see that once all those people inevitably got their EU citizenship a big chunk would be coming to the UK. All those people in Calais trying to sneak onto trucks would just buy a bus ticket and show up at the local welfare office.

 

But immigration levels probably won’t change under Brexit.  It will simply mean that instead of Poles and Eastern European immigrants, Britain will see more immigrants from countries of the former British Empire and current members of the Commonwealth, such as India and Pakistan.

There are clear reasons why Brexit is a mistake: Britain gives up virtually tariff free access to Europe for its exports and the ability to live and work anywhere in Europe in exchange for major severance costs, a lopsided trade deal that disadvantages Britain, stranding of Brits who choose to remain living/working in Europe, major future separatist challenges from Scotland, and the flight of businesses, especially in high finance, from London. We well understand the emotional nationalist argument in Canada because we’ve heard it from Quebec separatists.  

Canadians have more to worry about in terms of independence from Washington than Brits do of independence from Brusselles and the most dominant country in Europe, Germany.  

Most of the Brits’ biggest concerns about Europe are being addressed by the EU parliament to head off further separatism: greater control over immigration, fewer transfer payments, more local control in general at the national (British) level.  That’s why the right leaning governments of Italy and the Netherlands have pulled back from threats to leave the EU.  The smartest thing Britain can do is ask the EU to delay Brexit indefinitely and threaten to leave whenever the EU does things Britain doesn’t like.  It’s a bluff that has served Quebec beautifully.  That’s how Britain can have its cake and eat it too.  But Brexit has to be removed as an immediate threat to settle down business fears.  

I also think Britain should play up its Commonwealth links for trade purposes, especially with countries like Canada, Australia, and Singapore, as a hedge against both the EU and US in trade and other negotiations, just as Canada should emphasize CETA, the Commonwealth, Francophonie, and other political/trade/cultural blocks in dealings with the US.  Good, enforceable international rules can help everyone, despite what the anti-globalist fear mongerers say.  Some exceptionalism is inevitable, but it should remain exceptional.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Maybe this should be the theme of the times: 'general feeling' versus 'thinking'.  'Feelings' are valid but they shouldn't govern us.  If the Brexiteers put out a story of a Polish immigrant who committed a horrible murder that's not a starting point for discussing trade policy.  But turning every policy discussion into a narrative has turned public discussion away from objective discussion.

I was thinking more about Agincourt and Waterloo.

Edited July 27, 2019 by bcsapper

[DogOnPorch]

5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I was thinking more about Agincourt and Waterloo...

 

Or Operation Sea Lion/ Seelöwe.

That channel was all that saved us from a world run by Nazis.

Edited July 27, 2019 by DogOnPorch

[Zeitgeist]

50 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Or Operation Sea Lion/ Seelöwe.

That channel was all that saved us from a world run by Nazis.

I think a completely open market, including freedom of labour and residence, of all the English speaking countries could achieve more than any empire in history, but then I don’t see a reason to stop at the English language.  Why not incorporate most of Europe, parts of Asia and South America?   The risk of such a block is that it can create a divide between the haves and have-nots that brings other problems, unless it isn’t about a union of economically strong countries so much as a union of countries that play by fair rules on trade, labour, democratic freedom, and environmental policies that any country can join by proving the implementation and enforcement of certain standards, as long as they aren’t severe.  

Countries like China wouldn’t get in unless they raised their wages, currency, labour, and environmental standards.  It would curtail the offshoring of manufacturing jobs, increase the size of the middle class, and raise living standards everywhere.  It would also make real improvements on climate change and human rights internationally without making some pay while others get a free ride.