Financial Support for Indigenous Peoples

[Zeitgeist]

While there are many different ways that the tax revenues dedicated to Indigenous affairs can be spent, such as on improving housing or utilities, providing education and health care, or settling land claims, it is useful for government to know what percentage of income taxpayers are willing to spend on Indigenous affairs in general.  This money is in addition to any monies collected from trust funds, resource development, leases on Indigenous territories, and other sources of income for Indigenous peoples.

[Robert Greene]

Most of them are taught from birth to hate white people, and i'm sick of it.

I think we should give them a choice. Give them some money for relocation to the cities, or let them separate from Canada, and run their own country the way we want.

I rather give them land over money, because they would have to take responsibility for their well-being. Maybe they build a first world nation with mining and booming tourism, or maybe they turn it into a 3rd world country.

We should only use our tax dollars to support the sick and disabled, and stop sending money to drug addicts on reserves. Money doesn't go on trees, and we better wakeup, or Canada will go bankrupt.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Robert Greene

[eyeball]

29 minutes ago, Robert Greene said:

Most of them are taught from birth to hate white people,

Horseshit. Prove it.

Quote

and i'm sick of it.

 

You should go back to wherever your tribe immigrated from if that's really how you feel. Real world-class countries will never be possible with your type around.

[Robert Greene]

Maybe the working class are sick and tired of being called cheap.

You're always asking us to pay rent. Well I say, we give you a large section of Canada, and see how well that turns out for you.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Robert Greene

[Robert Greene]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

While there are many different ways that the tax revenues dedicated to Indigenous affairs can be spent, such as on improving housing or utilities, providing education and health care, or settling land claims, it is useful for government to know what percentage of income taxpayers are willing to spend on Indigenous affairs in general.  This money is in addition to any monies collected from trust funds, resource development, leases on Indigenous territories, and other sources of income for Indigenous peoples.

Why are you feeding the beast? Don't be a sucker.

[Zeitgeist]

Are you suggesting that living on free land, not paying taxes, getting free higher education, and getting some kind of additional amount from a trust fund and taxpayers is too much?  What about housing and basic infrastructure like water?   Shouldn’t that continue to be provided through similar funding?  Health and education also come from such monies.  Conditions on some reserves are deplorable. I don’t mind paying a bit towards Indigenous affairs for a long term solution as long as more isn’t asked of non-Indigenous people.  

[Robert Greene]

There's no self-sufficiency. We've turned them into parasites. Millions of dollars goes to drugs and alcohol. 

Why should we maintain multi million dollar airports, just to keep a 1000 people in a remote community? Is cost us $15 just to buy them orange juice.

What about the Canadians who worked 50 years, and can't get a bump in their retirement?

Why should we steal grandmas money and blow it on stupid Airports, and multi-million dollar housing complexes in the arctic?

 

Why can't we just give them the Territories, and be done with our "Obligations"? Give them their land back, because they would have no clue how to manage it, and would become a third world country.

I'm sick of a society, that's expected to bow their heads in shame, and take responsibility for something they never did 300 years ago.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Robert Greene

[Realitycheck]

The issue here is one of "where did/does the money go?" Since the Indian Act was first brought in 10's of billions of dollars have been spent on the indigenes. Enough so that not one single person should be without good housing, indoor plumbing, potable water. Yet many of these immigrants from Asia live in squalor. So, where has the money gone? One might be forgiven for wondering about offshore accounts in the name of certain bureaucrats and politicians. Furthermore, why will the media not investigate this? I have put this to a number of high profile so-called investigative reporter over the years and nary a word heard back.

[eyeball]

11 hours ago, Robert Greene said:

Why should we steal grandmas money and blow it on stupid Airports, and multi-million dollar housing complexes in the arctic?

Because Grandma hasn't given back their country.  Once that happens they'll be able to nationalize their resources industries and then take care of us for a change.

Edited March 31, 2019 by eyeball

[Zeitgeist]

I don’t think that assistance to Indigenous peoples should be a permanent arrangement.  It should have a scale-back mechanism that kicks in once a self-sustainability plan is in place, gradually reducing to zero as employment and resource development improves.  This is what should happen.  What do I actually think will happen?  Taxpayers continue to fund Indigenous affairs such that many Indigenous peoples don’t have an incentive to work in and contribute to the wider economy or even the local Indigenous economy.

Those who leave the reserve tend to be more successful.  There are some successful reserves/territories, especially out west.  Any time taxpayers push back and question budget expenditures on Indigenous affairs, will there always be images circulated in the media of kids living in third world conditions, huffing gasoline, and so forth?  I wish it could be different.  I’m willing to give some of my income in the hope of real improvement.  

It’s sad because even as non-Indigenous are blamed for cultural genocide and “stealing the native land”, the overriding impression that non-Indigenous people have of Indigenous people is of welfare recipients, a stereotype that certainly doesn’t speak for all Indigenous people.

Most people don’t buy into the romantic notion that Indigenous people were more moral or decent than European settlers.  Images of Iroquois burning missionaries and Hurons alive tell us otherwise.  Indigenous people did not have a better way of life back then and most Indigenous people today are not choosing to live as they did 300 years ago.  Everyone should work and contribute to their society.  Doing so makes preserving and celebrating Indigenous cultural traditions more viable.  

[cannuck]

Far, far more money has been paid out by IAF in whatever name they have used for every status Indian in this country to live in the very lap of luxury.  We did a study of that once, and found (25 years ago) that about $22k a year was budgeted to IAF for every man, woman and child in Canada with a treaty number.  BUT: maybe 20% of that money ever saw a living, breathing aboriginal - and then the vast majority of what did ended up going sideways at the band council level.  The big bux go to those "consultants" who are in favour of the IAF bureaucrats - and you can guess just what it takes to buy that favour.  When you go to a reserve (at least any one of the hundred or so I have been on) you will find a very high level of unemployment.  About the only "jobs" are working for the band, and most of those a "per diem" people who simply drive their new F250 from meeting to meeting.  When you see those crumbling homes on TV, you don't see the thousand people sitting around with their finger up their ass doing diddly squat to maintain or repair those homes.   When you hear about the lack of water, you seldom are told about the facilities that were built for them to treat water, but nobody could be bothered to learn how and operate and maintain that infrastructure.  Before they got involved with the Mafia to build casinos here, you probably weren't told of the gambling junkets for chiefs with complementary rooms, booze and broads.

The real world of reserve life is very, very different from what the bleeding hearts and halfwit media portray.

IMHO:  if we agree we owe something to aboriginals under treaty obligations, then cut each one a cheque for their share every month.  When their band council squawks about self government, simply tell them to tax it back from their citizens.

In fact though, the entire idea of having a couple hundred "sovereign nations" within one sovereign nation is total BS.  It simply is impossible.

[Robert Greene]

They're too far gone. They think they own the entire country, and everyone who works 9 to 5 has to feed them cradle to grave. The liberals just treat them like useful idiots, anytime they want a pipeline protest or whatever. I'm sick our politicians sending ransom money, while our senior citizens are dying in hospitals.

First of all, anyone born in Canada has just as much right to be in Canada as a native. A government can't force a white person to pay taxes to a group of people who don't pay taxes. There's no accountability for how the money gets spent. Last time I went to a reserve, I had a group of Alcoholics lecture me on who the state of Wyoming is there land. It's not even in their country. You have a million people saying the second largest country is all theirs, and anyone who doesn't hand over welfare payments should feel shamed.

I for one, am sick of it. I'm sick of the silence from the conservatives on this issues. Everybody has been brainwashed, into believing that we have to pay for a house and food for the rest of their lives.

I'm proposing the breakup of Canada. We're the second largest country, and we shouldn't expect all white people, and every new immigrant to pay for every native that's alive, and that's going to live. They have 1 million people, and we have 33 million, so why don't we give them 3% of Canada. They can start they're own country, and run it the way they like.

Ok how about we give them more than their fare share. How about we give them 30% of Canada. Let's give them the Yukon, Northwest Territories, and Nunavut. Now they can figure out how capitalism works, or continue with their socialism nonsense and become a third world country. Either way natives will be responsible for cleaning up their own communities. So if they want to let a bunch of alcoholics run wild, that's their choice. They can live with the consequences in their own nation.

If they keep bitchin about land, I say lets give them some land. We got lots of it.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Robert Greene

[Altai]

LoL invading people's homeland and violating their rights and after all giving them "money support" could only make you look like a gentleman in front of an ignorant person who has no idea about the history. 

[cannuck]

1 hour ago, Altai said:

LoL invading people's homeland and violating their rights and after all giving them "money support" could only make you look like a gentleman in front of an ignorant person who has no idea about the history. 

You literally have no idea what you are saying.

This is not Turkey where we slaughter our minorities, it is a fantastically wealthy country where we give our aboriginal population huge privileges that are not available to the tax paying population.   We are not trying to kill them off (nor has any European immigrant) we are trying to get them off their privileged ass to stand on their own two feet as equals.

Edited April 1, 2019 by cannuck

[Altai]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

You literally have no idea what you are saying.

This is not Turkey where we slaughter our minorities, it is a fantastically wealthy country where we give our aboriginal population huge privileges that are not available to the tax paying population.   We are not trying to kill them off (nor has any European immigrant) we are trying to get them off their privileged ass to stand on their own two feet as equals.

Nothing changed in this forum from the past to present : ) you all are lying and always lying about anything as long as it does not fit with your dirty mindset. I think I have an old topic that includes proofs how native people of America have been systmatically massacred. Steal their wealth first and give them some "wealth" ? LoL : D 

 

[PIK]

37 minutes ago, Altai said:

Nothing changed in this forum from the past to present : ) you all are lying and always lying about anything as long as it does not fit with your dirty mindset. I think I have an old topic that includes proofs how native people of America have been systmatically massacred. Steal their wealth first and give them some "wealth" ? LoL : D 

 

Open your eyes. They have been given billions and there still is many without clean water. Why do natives live in extreme poverty while right up the road the chief living in a mansion driving a caddy. Telling everyone who will listen how the white man is fucking them. Liberals are so goddamn blind when it comes to these votes. Well guess what, the natives will not be backing trudeau this time. He lied to them even more then other governments.

[Altai]

1 hour ago, PIK said:

Why do natives live in extreme poverty while right up the road the chief living in a mansion driving a caddy. 

Probably the same way how ME countries were the most developed in the past but today they live under bad conditions despite they sit on oil reserves.

Or the same way how Turkiye ruled by Western puppet political parties and figures cannot build even roads until last 15 years of current government.


Stop playing the good guy. You are not good people, you are doing anything to prevent others to develop while you pretend of being helpful. 

[cannuck]

2 hours ago, Altai said:

Nothing changed in this forum from the past to present : ) you all are lying and always lying about anything as long as it does not fit with your dirty mindset. I think I have an old topic that includes proofs how native people of America have been systmatically massacred. Steal their wealth first and give them some "wealth" ? LoL : D 

 

This is not "America" this is Canada.   HUGE difference when it comes to the treatment of aboriginals.

BTW:  Pretty smug for someone who's country pulled off Dersim & Zilan massacres.

[Altai]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

This is not "America" this is Canada.   HUGE difference when it comes to the treatment of aboriginals.

BTW:  Pretty smug for someone who's country pulled off Dersim & Zilan massacres.

You can start to read from here. Your little brain is washed : D

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/change-gonna-come/2017/06/systemic-oppression-indigenous-peoples-no-reason

[jacee]

On 3/31/2019 at 11:14 AM, Realitycheck said:

The issue here is one of "where did/does the money go?" Since the Indian Act was first brought in 10's of billions of dollars have been spent on the indigenes. Enough so that not one single person should be without good housing, indoor plumbing, potable water. Yet many of these immigrants from Asia live in squalor. So, where has the money gone? One might be forgiven for wondering about offshore accounts in the name of certain bureaucrats and politicians. Furthermore, why will the media not investigate this? I have put this to a number of high profile so-called investigative reporter over the years and nary a word heard back.

You can look at the Financial Statements and Audits of First Nations on their websites, and federal  Indigenous Services too.

Then look at the finances of your own municipality for comparison. 

I think you need a better grasp of the financial aspects of education, health care and other public services, all of which are provided to Indigenous communities as part of the deal (treaties, etc.) we made for living here. 

[jacee]

3 hours ago, cannuck said:

This is not "America" this is Canada.   HUGE difference when it comes to the treatment of aboriginals.

BTW:  Pretty smug for someone who's country pulled off Dersim & Zilan massacres.

Umm ... Canada is in North America, part of the Americas. 

And the difference isn't that huge. 

[jacee]

On 3/31/2019 at 3:36 PM, cannuck said:

Far, far more money has been paid out by IAF in whatever name they have used for every status Indian in this country to live in the very lap of luxury.  We did a study of that once, and found (25 years ago) that about $22k a year was budgeted to IAF for every man, woman and child in Canada with a treaty number.  BUT: maybe 20% of that money ever saw a living, breathing aboriginal - and then the vast majority of what did ended up going sideways at the band council level.

If only 20% went to reserves, where did the other 80% of the (then) Indian Affairs budget go?

Edited April 1, 2019 by jacee

[Realitycheck]

25 minutes ago, jacee said:

If only 20% went to reserves, where did the other 80% of the (then) Indian Affairs budget go?

That is what I have been asking. You earlier suggestion doesn't account for the billions which have gone towards indigenes. BTW they aren't indigenes, the came from Asia. Every north american "native" has Asian DNA. If they can be indigenes just for being born here, so can everyone else.

[Robert Greene]

Here's a solution. Don't send any money to the reserves, then you won't have to pay the drug addicts, and the bureaucrats who handle the money. Give them a nice chunk of Canada, and be like "Here ya go. Start your own country"

The natives keep complaining about their lack of control. Well give them unlimited control. Give them their own country.

Will use the billions of dollars, and use it to lower taxes, bailout the homeless, and pay down our national debt.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Robert Greene

[Army Guy]

5 hours ago, Altai said:

Probably the same way how ME countries were the most developed in the past but today they live under bad conditions despite they sit on oil reserves.

Or the same way how Turkiye ruled by Western puppet political parties and figures cannot build even roads until last 15 years of current government.


Stop playing the good guy. You are not good people, you are doing anything to prevent others to develop while you pretend of being helpful. 

What a crock of shit....if turkey could not build roads then that was turkeys chioce....the west did not tell you no more roads.....Lets remember it was Turkey that wanted to join NATO and the western alliance for it's own protection....One day when you and your country grows up, your country can stand up and own it's own history....Frankly NATO would be better off without turkey