NHL General Thread

[Dougie93]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Healthy Bobrovsky and Barkov all year gets the Panthers in. Florida is more talented, and barely missed with shit goaltending, now they have Goalie Bob.

Goalie Bob is overrated, Stralman, Yandle, Eckblad is gonna get caved in, Stralman is aging out, neither Yandle nor Eckblad actually play defense.

Up front they're not that talented, basically a one line team, Montreal has more depth.

[Yzermandius19]

5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Goalie Bob is overrated, Stralman, Yandle, Eckblad is gonna get caved in, Stralman is aging out, neither Yandle nor Eckblad actually play defense.

Up front they're not that talented, basically a one line team, Montreal has more depth.

Montreal ain't sh*t, all they have is Price, not buying this depth argument, they overperformed and are more likely to regress to the mean. Bobrovsky might be overrated, but he's still top 5 goalie in the league the step down from Price to Bob ain't that big. Florida's defense sucks, but the real reason they didn't make the Playoffs was a crappy save percentage. Bobrovsky is going to help with that, he's certainly a big upgrade from what they had last year, and a big upgrade from that more than puts them over the top.

Pressure can be a double-edged sword, it can turn you into a diamond or make you crumble into dust, the Habs are team that is good one year, shit the next, they are due for a down year.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Montreal ain't shit, all they have is Price, not buying this depth argument. Bobrovsky might be overrated, but he's still top 5 goalie in the league the step down from Price to Bob ain't that big. Florida's defense sucks, but the real reason they didn't make the Playoffs was a crappy save percentage. Bobrovsky is going to help with that.

Florida ain't shit, all they got is Goalie Bob and Barkov, the rest is meh.

 

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Florida ain't shit, all they got is Goalie Bob and Barkov, the rest is meh.

 

Well yeah, but that's still enough to make the playoffs, probably.

Barkov > Weber
Price and Bob don't have a big gap between them.
Florida > Montreal

Speaking of pressure if Florida doesn't break out soon, they are never going to.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Well yeah, but that's still enough to make the playoffs, probably.

Barkov > Weber
Price and Bob don't have a big gap between them.
Florida > Montreal

Drouin > Huberdeau

Domi > Dadonov

Gallagher > Hoffman

Kotkaniemi > Trochek

Poehling > Borgstrom

Tatar > Vatrano

Weber > Eckblad

All Florida has is B & B, Montreal is better at every other position, and Price is better than Bobbro.

 

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Drouin > Huberdeau

Domi > Dadonov

Gallagher > Hoffman

Kotkaniemi > Trochek

Poehling > Borgstrom

Tatar > Vatrano

Weber > Eckblad

All Florida has is B & B, Montreal is better at every other position, and Price is better than Bobbro.

 

You are honestly going to pretend Drouin is better than a dude who put up 30 goals and 92 points last year? Really?

Kotkaniemi will be better in the future, but right now Trochek probably still better.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

You are honestly going to pretend Drouin is better than a dude who put up 30 goals and 92 points last year? Really?

Kotkaniemi will be better in the future, but right now Trochek probably still better.

If you put Drouin with Barkov he would put up similar numbers.    Trochek is a glorifed Kerfoot.

[Rue]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

Nylander will play 20 mins with Matthews and bounce back, $7 million for Nylander is going to look cheap in a couple years, Nylander will eventually replace Tavares as the 2C.

Trading Nylander now is selling low and ripe for turning into a Hall for Larsson situation.

Could have been forced to trade him last year if he held out for the whole season, but since he didn't, Ocho-Ocho is good to go now.

Dubas ain't trading him, many others would be traded first, starting with Kapanen.

The guy who gets traded is the guy who refuses to make a deal, so that's Marner now.  

Not saying he is getting traded, but it's not going to be Nylander to make room for Marner, that's not how Dubas rolls.

If a contract has to be dumped to fit a Mitch Marner 11.6 million contract in, it will be likely be  Cody Ceci's $4.5 million one year rental.

Well I think you are right for all the reasons you said. I doubt he would trade Nylander. I am just jawing for fun on this thread.

I think by the way Ceci is a head case but a good gamble. Its beyond me how a guy like him played so bad. I watched him. Makes no sense. He is good movement laterally and soft hands. I don't get his head case effort in Ottawa.

I hear Marner wants like 12  million. und-dog Kelly, John Ferguson, Stan  Jonathan, Bobby Clark.

I will get back to all time players lists later. You guys wanna talk here and now no prob.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Rue

[Yzermandius19]

13 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

If you put Drouin with Barkov he would put up similar numbers.    Trochek is a glorifed Kerfoot.

Meh you're too high on Drouin, he is not the player we'd thought he'd be, time to take notice, he ain't going to jump from 53 points to 92 points just because he plays with Barkov.

Huberdeau has had more points than Drouin's best year, every year of his NHL career, except that one year he only played 31 games. Be real.

Kotkaniemi will be better than Trochek soon enough, but next year? Maybe, maybe not. Also last I checked, Kerfoot never had a 75 point season, glorified Kerfoot my ass.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Rue]

Hang on Y....and I admit I am a Habs fan so I have a bias. but... About Drouin: This guy is asked to be a defensive player in Montreal. On any other tea he could put up 30 goals easy. He is under-rated. Watch him play. He is a two way player now and bought into a defence first system because he is unselfish. If he was on a team  that let him play one way like Vegas, Phoenix, Nashville he could score the lights out. I think he is an excellent leader.

As for Domi I was skeptical on the trade then fell in love with his play last year except for one Kadri moment where he took a dirty shot and looked like Claude Lemieux. He has a penchant for the odd dirty hit like his Dad and that did not go down well in Montreal where you do not do that. The Habs coach is no different than Babcock. They were two peas in the pod as to their views on two way hockey and dirty shots. In fact identical which is why you will not see Gardiner in Montreal and why Marner would fit in very well but not Nylander. Drouin actually in Toronto would be a excellent partner for Tavares but the Leafs and Habs are mot a match. Same division same weaknesses and strengths. Drouin is loyal to the Habs and vice versa. The Habs will never trade Price, Drouin or Weber and I doubt at this point they would  trade Gallagher who is to Montreal what Wendel Clark was to the Leafs although Clark was traded for Sudin so never say never.

Poheling I hope can play 4th line this year. I appreciate his first game up was the last game of the year when he got his hat trick but he played solid 2 way hockey in college hockey so we shall see. 

I think Drouin is better than any winger in Flo.

In fact I take Drouin over Nylander and Drouin is to the Habs what Marner is to the Leafs. He makes a lot of passes and defensive cover plays now cramping his offence.  He is a team player. He is their defacto leader. He and Gallagher are the two leaders and of course Weber and Price. They have 4 solid leaders. The Leafs only need one, Tavares and his game does all the talking.  He's their man.

The Habs weakness is goal scoring and fast moving dmen. They got some slow foots back on the b line....so their break out game and power play is held back. God bless Petry and Weber and they asked Petry to carry a lot, but these are older guys now. They need help on the b line. We have a bonafide start in the making in Mete, but then it becomes cement heads. So we shall see if anyone can pick it up on the blue line. I think Domi had a career year and so did Tartar  so whether they repeat we shall see. Hudon has disappointed everyone and this is his make or break year. On paper he sould be similar to Pacioretti in style but he's been invisible.

Poehling has overachieved every year at centre. He has no one particular skill but he just seems to not give up. I have high hopes for him at centre and Special K the Finn can only get better so I think with those two and Domi we have centres now for 3 lines and we have nop shortage of at least 4 guys to play 4th line centre or wingers.

What we need is some goal scorers and maybe a 4th dman. The Leafs I say leave alone. You made your moves. Now play hard.

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by Rue

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

Well I think you are right for all the reasons you said. I doubt he would trade Nylander. I am just jawing for fun on this thread.

I think by the way Ceci is a head case but a good gamble. Its beyond me how a guy like him played so bad. I watched him. Makes no sense. He is good movement laterally and soft hands. I don't get his head case effort in Ottawa.

I hear Marner wants like 12  million. und-dog Kelly, John Ferguson, Stan  Jonathan, Bobby Clark.

I will get back to all time players lists later. You guys wanna talk here and now no prob.

The problem with Marner is not the money, if he signs the offer sheet, the Leafs will match and make room, the problem is simply that Marner wants a five year and nobody is willing to give him that, not the Leafs, and nobody else neither, as nobody is handing over four first round picks for just five years use of a player,  so he's pouting.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

In terms of Drouin, I don't sleep on him, he's got the talent, he's got some size to him, but I wouldn't trade Nylander for him.

Nylander is an underachiever, but Kyle won't give up on him yet, Willy is going to get at least this year to show he can break out.

If Nylander does break out, $7 million is going to seem cheap, he was the IIHF WC MVP for a reason, he has Superstar upside, I think he's as talented as Marner, Marner just works harder.

[Dougie93]

In terms of the Habs in general, I think they're looking pretty good up front all of a sudden, what I think they should do is just play the kids, same as the Leafs did.

Drouin - Danault - Gallagher

Suzuki - Kotkaniemi - Caufield

Tatar - Domi - Armia

Lehkonen - Poehling - Byron

They just need a 1LHD to play with Weber, either sign Gardiner, or trade for Brodie, or in fact;  I would do both.

Brodie - Weber

Gardiner - Petry

Chiarot - Juulsen

Krulak - Folin

Calgary is desperate for centers, with Suzuki, Montreal now has five of them, so you dangle Danualt as the center and package him with Mete to replace Brodie.

Gonna have to sweeten that with picks to get Brodie, but Price is on the clock, so they gotta make the moves now, overpay for the LHD if they have to.

Bottom line tho, if St. Louis can win the cup, anybody can win the cup, play the kids, get Price to the playoffs,  and go for it, the future is now, the new NHL is all about playing the kids, and whoever gets hot at the right time with the hot goalie can go all the way with a little help from the Hockey Gods.

If Jordan Binnington can carry a mediocre team to a cup, the time is now for Carey Price to earn his pay.

If the Habs play the kids, like Matthews, Marner and Nylander were played, and those kids break out the same way, Brendan Gallagher, Shea Weber and Carey Price should be able to get it done, no excuses.

What does St. Louis have that the Habs don't?  Tarasenko, Pietrangelo and Binnington?  No excuses, the Habs are as good as the Blues on paper, with Carey Price on top, the Habs need to stop thinking about the future and realize that in this NHL, the future it now.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

And this is why I am more than willing to contemplate trading Marner.

You don't need a team of Superstars to win anymore,  it's more of a crap shoot now, Tampa got swept by Columbus in the first round says it all.

If Marner isn't going to cave, you have to trade him, once he sits out the whole season he's not coming back after that anyways.

The Leafs don't need Marner, either they get hot or they don't, if they do, they can do it without Marner, if they don't, Marner wouldn't have made any difference.

Tom Dundon is right, NHL players are overpaid, because in the NHL now, no one player puts you over the top, the teams are all the same, it just comes down to who gets hot at the right time.

If the owners have any sense at all, they will lock all these RFA's out, you don't need to pay them 11 million bucks, in the salary cap era, individual players are not actually worth that much, St Louis was the worst team in the league, and then they won the cup, f*ck Paul Marner & Co, let them rot.

The owners should lock the players out and just leave them locked out indefinitely until they give up guaranteed contracts, break this union at any cost.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Dougie93

[Yzermandius19]

Just because St. Louis won doesn't mean it's the new normal, every number 1 seed getting upset in the first round ain't the new normal, obvious outlier is obvious. Montreal needs to win now and can't, St. Louis is better than Montreal, Montreal should trade Price and Weber and reload for the future unless Kotkaniemi is ready to be a 1C real soon.

Anyone can win because St. Louis pulled a 2006 Carolina out of their ass and Vegas had a miracle season that is unlikely to be replicated ever again in their first year? Yeah good luck with that, dumbest strategy ever, a recipe for perpetual mediocrity that is.

You don't win without a 1C, trying to win when they don't have one, is just silly. St. Louis has Ryan O'Reilly, even 2006 Carolina had Eric Staal on a career year where he was 100+ points, and they are the outliers, Montreal does not have a 1C yet, so their chances of being an outlier are negligible. Name me one team Stanley Cup winner in the last fifteen years who didn't have a 1C, but you can't, because they don't exist.

Drouin is a fifty point player, playing with the loaded Lightning or getting top line time in Montreal. That's Huberdeau's floor, even when playing with garbage Panthers teams early in his career, he's had two 70+ point seasons back to back now, stop overvaluing Drouin.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Yzermandius19]

Any team can win with a 1C and a hot goalie, but if you don't have both, you have no chance. Trying to win it all because you have the best goalie in hockey and nothing else is Buffalo with Hasek territory, you might make a run to the finals once, but good luck winning the cup when you get there or repeating that run. Even when Roy won the Habs the cup in '86 and '93, the Habs had a 1C. Even the most dominant goalie of all time on a hot streak isn't enough all by itself to win a cup, ask the Dominator, he needed a 1C before he finally won.

Price ain't no Roy or Hasek, and even if he was, he'd still need a 1C to have a chance. Domi ain't gonna cut it, Kotkaniemi better get his shit together quick if the Habs are determined to keep Price and ride him til the wheels fall off, because if he takes too long to achieve 1C status, the Price window might already be closed. If Kotkaniemi is already a 1C next year, then by all means, go for it, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

Drouin is practically identical to Huberdeau, Drouin is Huberdeau 2.0, cloned out of the Halifax Mooseheads;

6'0" 200 lbs LW 3rd overall pick, scored over 100pts in the QMJHL

Huberdeau has had a breakout season last year, with Barkov on an offensive team with a white hot power play (Paul McFarlane run, now the Leafs assistant coach)

Prior to last season Huberdeau's metrics were, again, practically identical to Drouin's.

I don't think Drouin's ceiling is 50 points, he's basically a younger cheaper version of Huberdeau who simply needs a better team to breakout with.

As for Price not being Hasek,  he's not the same style of goalie since Hasek really had no style and was just a freak, but I think Price is capable of stealing series as Hasek did.

In terms of Kotkaniemi not being a 1C, he's projected by scouts to be Barkov 2.0, if he's a bust then he's a bust, but I haven't seen anything  that indicates that he is in fact a bust at this juncture.

With regards to must have legit 1C to go for it now, William Karlsson is not a 1C, ROR is not a 1C, teams are making the finals without 1C's and even winning, so I don't see any reason not to go for it simply because you don't have Connor McDavid, there's no point in Montreal tanking now, and if you're not tanking, you should for for it, because it's a topsy turvy NHL where teams are making the finals almost at random.

If Carey Price is at the top of his game and the team gets fired up about it, they basically just need a 1LHD to log big minutes with Weber and then roll the lines and score by committee like St. Louis and Vegas did.

I mean, the Leafs can go out and spend $33 million on Tavares, Matthews and Marner and still get exactly nowhere because Babcock is a jackass and Freddie Fathead coughs up softies, it's not like it was before, the teams are all the same now, superstar players are not necessarily  putting teams over the top anymore.

The assertion that Florida is gonna rip it up while Montreal is going to suck, doesn't fit with the times, all Florida has on Montreal is Barkov, but Montreal has Weber while Florida has Aaron Eckblad, who if you closely, is actually just a glorified Cody Ceci.

If Montreal can get a minute munching puck moving LHD to play with Weber (TJ Brodie) then they can just play the shit out of that top pairing, which would be better than the entire Florida defense put together.  Matheson is actually the best overall Dman in Florida now because he's the only one who is not softer than baby shit, but he's no Shea Weber.

And none of these things are one offs, Vegas made the finals, St, Louis won, Columbus  swept Tampa, Nashville choked, Toronto choked, the Islanders made it to the second round with a junk team, the Canes were Conference Finalists, Dallas went from sucking to being a contender with the addition of just two kids, Colorado has quickly gone from worst to first, Winnipeg has quickly gone from unstoppable to meh, the pattern of topsy turvy is becoming entrenched.

That's why I say Montreal should play the kids, teams which have risen rapidly have all done so by having kids who panned out right away.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Dougie93

[Yzermandius19]

Vegas made the finals and didn't win, Karlsson was playing like a 1C, then they ran into a team with hotter goalie and a more legitimate 1C. Karlsson couldn't keep it up because his shooting percentage regressed to the mean this year, but everyone saw that coming.

Ryan O'Reilly was playing like a 1C this year, even if only temporarily, in an obvious career year.

Drouin's stats are not identical to Huberdeau's, Huberdeau has more points than Drouins highest total in every year he didn't play 31 games. He's had back to back 70+ point seasons, he ain't only breaking out because of the PP. For a good chunk of that time Huberdeau was putting up better numbers, Drouin was the on the better offensive team, with the better PP. Drouin is Poor Man's Huberdeau, not Huberdeau 2.0.

Kotkaniemi isn't a 1C yet, if he turns into Barkov 2.0, then he will be, but that could take time.

Not saying Florida and Montreal are light years apart, I'm saying Montreal is worse than St. Louis and they can't do what St. Louis did without a 1C.

Vegas likely won't get to another finals without someone playing like a 1C, or they actually find a legit 1C. Plus they had Fleury on an outlier year where he didn't choke until the finals, good luck with that being the case going forward, that has only happened twice in his career, and only one time where he didn't choke in the finals when he wasn't riding the bench.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

Mo Korshkov. 

 

[Yzermandius19]

A year where all the 1 seeds choke is not the new normal, you are overcorrecting based on an obvious outlier playoff year. No team has won a Stanley Cup in the last fifteen years without at least a temporary 1C on a career year, and the temporary 1C's getting to a finals are the outlier, but if you don't have at least them, you don't get to be an outlier who ever wins a Stanley Cup.

Counting on a 2C to become a temporary 1C, is not the best way to win, the NHL has more parity now than ever before, but that only goes so far. If Vegas wants to win a cup, they need one of their 2C's to become a 1C temporarily on a career year, or they'll need Cody Glass to become a legit 1C. Without that, as good as they are, they ain't going to win a Cup.

If Domi doesn't have a career year and plays like 1C temporarily, or Kotkaniemi ain't ready to be 1C, Montreal ain't winning next year. Even if that happens, their chances ain't that good. If Kotkaniemi becomes a 1C, then the window is open, until then, it's not.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

Mo Korshkov.

 

[Yzermandius19]

Dudes need to stop sleeping on Korshkov's ability to steal the puck on the forecheck, he's really good at it and catches them napping all the time.

[Dougie93]

22 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Dudes need to stop sleeping on Korshkov's ability to steal the puck on the forecheck, he's really good at it and catches them napping all the time.

Korshkov is a sleeper, Hunter Hockey Genius still missed on DeBrincat, but he seems to have been onto something here none the less.

Has all the parts to be a top line Puck Retriever Net Front Presence, with the skill to compliment elite players, Russian Josh Anderson.

96 - 34 - 88

[Yzermandius19]

The Landeskog Role on the top line is key, lets the dynamic duo do their thing.

[Dougie93]

The thing that sets him apart is that he can skate,  6'4" 200 lbs, with speed, plus the reach, and the soft hands, he can grind, but he's not just a grinder.