New members of Mapleleafweb

[Argus]

So we got this Dougie93 guy who seems to be an ex soldier, conservative monarchist who appears to think Canada's confederation is an annoying intermediary between him and the queen.

Then this Montgomery troll, who is CLEARLY thoroughly familiar with the report system and how much he can get away with - in all likelihood one of the banned ex-members who fled to that other site, and is now back taunting and flinging shit around. I could probably guess which one if I read more of him but he's already in my ignore file.

Hates Politicians is also fairly new, and kind of crazy. At least I've seen few sane posts from him so far. "Nuke all the reserves" being one example.

Stay tuned for more.

[scribblet]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Then this Montgomery troll, who is CLEARLY thoroughly familiar with the report system and how much he can get away with - in all likelihood one of the banned ex-members who fled to that other site, and is now back taunting and flinging shit around. I could probably guess which one if I read more of him but he's already in my ignore file.

Stay tuned for more.

Clearly...    but it is entertaining at times  :)-

[Guest]

Just now, scribblet said:

Clearly...    but it is entertaining at times  :)-

That's why I don't put people on ignore.  It's just a lot of fun to read their attempts. 

[scribblet]

Get the popcorn out   

[OftenWrong]

Why anyone would want to take them seriously is beyond me. But to those posters who actually engage them, AND get excited? Good on ya. Fill yer boots

ETA:
I feel in some cases it is the same troll, just in another incarnation. Likes to post a lot. Extreme inflammatory. Can be either left or right. Seems to want others to loathe him. Also has been to virtually every corner of the world, has seen and done many amazing things, to make them more likeable to their "side". A virtual forum Rakshasa.

Edited January 5, 2019 by OftenWrong

[Argus]

2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

That's why I don't put people on ignore.  It's just a lot of fun to read their attempts. 

I got over that a long time ago. Trying to have a discussion with someone who doesn't even believe what he's arguing is silly, and they tend to muck up every topic and turn it onto their flamebait nonsense. That's why I don't go near the US politics stuff, because Bush Cheney will just come in and shit over every topic and turn it into a 'my penis is bigger and bester than yours' thing. Putting him on ignore doesn't really help that much since so many people get indignant and have to respond and argue.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

... That's why I don't go near the US politics stuff, because Bush Cheney will just come in and shit over every topic and turn it into a 'my penis is bigger and bester than yours' thing. Putting him on ignore doesn't really help that much since so many people get indignant and have to respond and argue.

 

By your own admission, access to American resources and data is far easier than Canadian, which is why U.S. media and culture informs so much of what is posted here, even in "Canadian topics".  (One of your faves being uniform U.S. law enforcement data by race.)   Accordingly, any actual "penis" measuring would be perfunctory. 

I could drop dead today but the U.S. would continue to dominate many topics in this forum....hell, even this "Canadian" forum platform is hosted in the United States.

Edited January 5, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, bcsapper said:

That's why I don't put people on ignore.  It's just a lot of fun to read their attempts. 

If you lived in the city, you would be constantly late due to street corner raving visionaries.

[Greg]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

hell, even this "Canadian" forum platform is hosted in the United States.

Those days are numbered....

[Argus]

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

By your own admission, access to American resources and data is far easier than Canadian, which is why U.S. media and culture informs so much of what is posted here, even in "Canadian topics".  (One of your faves being uniform U.S. law enforcement data by race.)   Accordingly, any actual "penis" measuring would be perfunctory. 

I could drop dead today but the U.S. would continue to dominate many topics in this forum....hell, even this "Canadian" forum platform is hosted in the United States.

There are occasions when it's quite proper to point out where the US outperforms us - when it matches the discussion at hand. There are even times to mock Canada, when someone here is mocking the US. It's only natural to reply the same way, of course. And yes, the US economy and culture has an outsize impact on Canada. But you know very well what the difference between admitting that is, and taunting people, bringing in this or that thing, totally out of context, about how Canada sucks at this and the US is so majorly wonderful. That's nothing but flamebait and trolling. It's not possible to have a reasonable discussion on the US topic about US subjects without you constantly bringing up Canada - when that's not the topic.

[bush_cheney2004]

35 minutes ago, Argus said:

... But you know very well what the difference between admitting that is, and taunting people, bringing in this or that thing, totally out of context, about how Canada sucks at this and the US is so majorly wonderful. That's nothing but flamebait and trolling. It's not possible to have a reasonable discussion on the US topic about US subjects without you constantly bringing up Canada - when that's not the topic.

 

I would be more sympathetic to this position if the identical behaviour was not exhibited by some (not all) members as a matter of routine comparisons, contrast, and derision vis-a-vis America for "Canada only" topics.   It doesn't just happen here, as many examples exist in Canadian media, as if more credibility and relevance can be had by invoking any and all references to the United States.   "Even in the states..." is a favorite Canadian crutch used to affirm and authenticate a given topic/discussion. 

Over the years I have come to learn that this is likely due to and is consistent with the larger issue of U.S. cultural and media influence on Canada, normalizing the Yankee references as routine and expected for Anglo Canadians because it has been this way for a very long time.

In a more basic form, some members like to dish it out, but cannot take it in return within forum rules.

Edited January 6, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Argus]

14 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

I would be more sympathetic to this position if the identical behaviour was not exhibited by some (not all) members as a matter of routine comparisons, contrast, and derision vis-a-vis America for "Canada only" topics.

Most of the sane members here like the US. Yes, there are a few left wing lunatics, often conspiratards, but for the most part, nobody here is hating on the US in anything like the way you hate on Canada.

14 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Over the years I have come to learn that this is likely due to and is consistent with the larger issue of U.S. cultural and media influence on Canada, normalizing the Yankee references as routine and expected for Anglo Canadians because it has been this way for a very long time.

Yes. The cultures are too similar, at least the urban cultures, and actually, our rural and your rural closely resemble each other too. I personally would rather look to Europe on health care and judicial reform. But the problem is our news media gets free stories, or nearly free, from the US, so Canadians are blasted with US coverage daily, and get very little from Europe. I know far more about the US, from politics to geography, than I do about the UK, and I'm a British citizen.

[bush_cheney2004]

20 minutes ago, Argus said:

Most of the sane members here like the US. Yes, there are a few left wing lunatics, often conspiratards, but for the most part, nobody here is hating on the US in anything like the way you hate on Canada.

 

If reflecting back the realities of Canada's past and present is "hating on Canada",  especially in the context of direct and indirect references to a foreign nation in Canadian topics, then clearly some members are too sensitive and biased to participate objectively in any such discussions.   This forum has been far healthier and engaging since the jail break by several longstanding members of a certain ideology left for good to live in their own echo chamber, unmolested by reality or opposing views here.

The mod(s) & admin discussed my rhetorical methods at length some years ago, and if my understanding is correct, basically decided that as long as other members insisted on invoking U.S. references for Canadian topics, then turnabout is/was fair play.

 

Quote

Yes. The cultures are too similar, at least the urban cultures, and actually, our rural and your rural closely resemble each other too. I personally would rather look to Europe on health care and judicial reform. But the problem is our news media gets free stories, or nearly free, from the US, so Canadians are blasted with US coverage daily, and get very little from Europe. I know far more about the US, from politics to geography, than I do about the UK, and I'm a British citizen.

 

I think is goes beyond similarity, and is described as cultural domination by some Canadian authors and talking heads.   So to an American, it often comes across as strange and inconsistent that U.S. culture/media/products are voraciously devoured by (Anglo) Canada as if to fill a void or vacuum north of the border, while at the same time criticizing Americans and their politics. 

In contrast, most Americans simply ignore Canada without grievance or ill thoughts, but even that invites more criticism for attention.   This member dares to jump into the fray, giving far more attention than is desired by some.    Be careful what you wish for....

Edited January 6, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Iznogoud]

I am wondering just how many active member Mapleleaf has.  I was hoping when I joined that it would be more robust, but so far I have only seen about a dozen posters.  Mind you I don't go into every forum since I am not interested in all of them. 

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The mod(s) & admin discussed my rhetorical methods at length some years ago, and if my understanding is correct, basically decided that as long as other members insisted on invoking U.S. references for Canadian topics, then turnabout is/was fair play.

My memory is dull, and some of this is 'secret sauce' but I think this is basically correct.

[Dougie93]

15 hours ago, Argus said:

So we got this Dougie93 guy who seems to be an ex soldier, conservative monarchist who appears to think Canada's confederation is an annoying intermediary between him and the queen.

Nah, that's not it, Canadian Confederation has simply become an enemy of liberty and prosperity by way of centrally planned Nanny Police State federal government overreach without end, I just want rid of this putrid and obsolete edifice of dysfunction.

My relationship with Her Majesty is more about a personal doctrine of adherence to solemn oath of allegiance unto to death as necessary, for better or worse, come what may, once sworn, but the issue vis a vis Confederation,  is simply that de-Confederation is actually a legally and constitutionally  viable option within the confines of the House of Windsor, which would be a requirement for a non violent devolution into Sovereignty Association.   In other words, yes, the Canadian Constitution has spoken, and Quebec has the right to withdraw from Confederation, and if they do, everybody else does as well.  

The trick would just be getting one province to break out to set the wheels in motion, very likely Quebec, although also a very slim chance it could be Alberta.

At the end of the day, only the Guardians of Confederation here in Upper Canada have ever cared deeply about it, I've simply made a rational analysis that this has actually become a counterproductive zombie project to no good purpose at this juncture, and have as a result flipped to the Pequistes view of things therein.  They are right, we are wrong, Ottawa is shit, and we need to free ourselves of it, all.

All roads of Canadian dysfunction lead back to the Liberal Party of Canada and associated Guardians of Confederation propping up a failed state which cannot deliver for the people until it is decentralized into its component sub jurisdictions, by no means a panacea, but until we breakout of this clown show, none of us are going anywhere fast.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Dougie93

[Argus]

12 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

If reflecting back the realities of Canada's past and present is "hating on Canada", 

Yes. It is. When it comes out of the blue as nothing more than snide, off-topic put-downs that serve no other purpose but to flame-bait. Definitely.

Quote

This forum has been far healthier and engaging since the jail break by several longstanding members of a certain ideology left for good to live in their own echo chamber, unmolested by reality or opposing views here.

Agreed. And since the moderation backed off.

Quote

The mod(s) & admin discussed my rhetorical methods at length some years ago, and if my understanding is correct, basically decided that as long as other members insisted on invoking U.S. references for Canadian topics, then turnabout is/was fair play.

As I said, turnabout is fair play when someone is insulting America, but your snide put-downs often have nothing to do with that, or with the topic, and simply come out of a desire to incite anger. Your claims otherwise are specious and unconvincing.

Quote

I think is goes beyond similarity, and is described as cultural domination by some Canadian authors and talking heads.   So to an American, it often comes across as strange and inconsistent that U.S. culture/media/products are voraciously devoured by (Anglo) Canada as if to fill a void or vacuum north of the border, while at the same time criticizing Americans and their politics. 

There are ten times more of you. That means ten times more of everything, including every form of media. Actually, it's even higher since We're really talking about the numbers of Anglo Canadians vs the numbers of Americans. So yes, there's ten times more media, and with the raw numbers of watchers that means ten times the funding with commensurate rise in quality (sometimes). Oddly, I find British shows uniformly higher quality overall, despite lower funding and numbers.

Quote

In contrast, most Americans simply ignore Canada without grievance or ill thoughts, but even that invites more criticism for attention.   This member dares to jump into the fray, giving far more attention than is desired by some.    Be careful what you wish for....

I have never wished for trolling. It bores me and it fucks up the ongoing discussion which WAS happening before someone decided to flamebait.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Argus

[Argus]

7 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Nah, that's not it, Canadian Confederation has simply become an enemy of liberty and prosperity by way of centrally planned Nanny Police State federal government overreach without end, I just want rid of this putrid and obsolete edifice of dysfunction.

You think the British government is any better?

7 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

All roads of Canadian dysfunction lead back to the Liberal Party of Canada and associated Guardians of Confederation propping up a failed state which cannot deliver for the people until it is decentralized into its component sub jurisdictions, by no means a panacea, but until we breakout of this clown show, none of us are going anywhere fast.

So what do you imagine to be the alternative? Because I don't think William and Kate are going to come over here and start direct rule.

[Argus]

12 hours ago, Iznogoud said:

I am wondering just how many active member Mapleleaf has.  I was hoping when I joined that it would be more robust, but so far I have only seen about a dozen posters.  Mind you I don't go into every forum since I am not interested in all of them. 

There were more in the past. I think too strict moderation and the more angry mood of the place drove a lot off. Things are actually improving the last couple of months.

[Dougie93]

24 minutes ago, Argus said:

You think the British government is any better?

So what do you imagine to be the alternative? Because I don't think William and Kate are going to come over here and start direct rule.

No, the UK is further down this path of totalitarian crazy than Canada is, although Canada is right behind them now and closing up fast,  but again,  fealty to the Crown and the British government is not the same thing, the UK government and the Canadian government and every other commonwealth government have their own direct line relationship with the Crown, and so in fact do all the Canadian provinces.

This is not about the Royal Family, all that matters is the constitutional role of the monarch, because without that,  you'd have to start over with a republic, which,  that's not going to happen, Canadians are not going to go through the motions of becoming a republic

This is what it is to be a Pequiste, you have to sneak it up on them,  and then get it done quick before they have a chance to turn back and vote no, and need to use the existing monarchy and constitution to do it,  because that structure is what has the clauses and procedures to allow for a legal non violent devolution and Sovereignty Association.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Queen personally, but in this case I only need her in a constitutional sense.

 

 

[Dougie93]

Basically, most viable option is; whenever the PQ sovereignists come back into vogue in Quebec, which they will, have to help them get it done this time, once Quebec is out, the rest will come apart at the seams.

[Greg]

15 hours ago, Iznogoud said:

I am wondering just how many active member Mapleleaf has.

@Iznogoud In the month of Dec, the forum has 89 separate members (excluding spammers, who are often quickly removed and banned) engaging with content (posting, replying, PM'ing, etc).

And the trend line is up over the past few months, so Jan 2019, it will hopefully be more then 100.

[Greg]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

I think too strict moderation and the more angry mood of the place drove a lot off. Things are actually improving the last couple of months.

No one's perfect... but I've been doing this for a while now, and one thing I do know is that it's important not to be too reactionary in my approach.

Moderating and administering a non-partisan forum can be difficult, as there is no guiding principal or set of rules of what ideas/ideologies are acceptable - hence at the end of the day it's better if no one is particularly happy with Charles and my moderation actions. 

If one sides too happy, then perhaps Charles and I haven't been impartial enough...

[bush_cheney2004]

5 hours ago, Argus said:

Yes. It is. When it comes out of the blue as nothing more than snide, off-topic put-downs that serve no other purpose but to flame-bait. Definitely.

 

They serve and enjoin the identical purpose of snide, anti-American put downs posted by other members.  Definitely...

 

Quote

As I said, turnabout is fair play when someone is insulting America, but your snide put-downs often have nothing to do with that, or with the topic, and simply come out of a desire to incite anger. Your claims otherwise are specious and unconvincing.

 

I think you are missing the larger narrative and engagement(s), tailored for some specific members who have routinely chosen to spout their strong disdain for America and American policies, while choosing to ignore Canadian history.   That might fly as perfectly acceptable, routine discourse between fellow Canadians without challenge, but this is an open forum with members from around the world.  Again, if one can't take it, then don't dish it out.

 

Quote

There are ten times more of you. That means ten times more of everything, including every form of media. Actually, it's even higher since We're really talking about the numbers of Anglo Canadians vs the numbers of Americans. So yes, there's ten times more media, and with the raw numbers of watchers that means ten times the funding with commensurate rise in quality (sometimes). Oddly, I find British shows uniformly higher quality overall, despite lower funding and numbers.

 

And there are many reasons why there are ten times more of us, directly related to underlying conditions and circumstances that are different and counter to many of the Yankee haters.   That Canada chooses to consume so much American culture/media is Canada's decision, even when it is inconsistent with so much anti-American rhetoric.   Trying to define Canada in terms of not being American is poorly served with such obvious inconsistencies.  

 

Quote

I have never wished for trolling. It bores me and it fucks up the ongoing discussion which WAS happening before someone decided to flamebait.

 

Few here are totally innocent of that, and this forum is not just about two members.   My posts will continue to contribute to forum topics, while being on patrol for those who choose to feed their hate for "'murica".   

[Dougie93]

12 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

   That might fly as perfectly acceptable, routine discourse between fellow Canadians without challenge, but this is an open forum with members from around the world. 

Almost entirely confined to the Canadian left, on the right we tend to view the Constitution of the United States of America as the last best hope for humanity and in fact the last line of defense against totalitarianism.  In terms of ignoring Canadian history, Canadians are not taught the central narrative of Canadian history, the first thing the Cultural Marxists did was replace Canadian history with Social History, Canadian identity replaced by Identity politics, and this was back in the 70's so it's been entrenching itself for decades,   the vast majority of Canadians really have no clue about their own history, and even what they know is mostly bullshit Liberal Party of Canada and associated CBC propaganda arm myth making to the benefit of the Liberal Party of Canada and its associated CBC propaganda arm.   I mean, it's like Pravda and TASS up in here with these dingbats.