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The transgender insanity movement


Argus

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

They just don't want trans people to exist.  A large male-looking trans woman is wanted in no washroom by such people.  I propose we let them pee on the hoods of the cars in the parking lot with MAGA stickers.  Problem solved.

So there is no room for nuance in your world, right? It's all black and white with nothing in between. Even someone like JK Rowling, who has always been pretty Left, might as well be a MAGA supporter since she isn't 100% on board with the belief that any man who claims he's now a woman is 100% a woman and cannot be questioned?

Edited by Argus
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20 minutes ago, Argus said:

For someone who is pretty far you seem deeply immersed in this topic. It's clearly very important to you. And yes, I do occasionally skim the discussion on this on that 'other' board.

No, you have either misunderstood or not read enough on my takes.

11 minutes ago, Argus said:

So there is no room for nuance in your world, right? It's all black and white with nothing in between. Even someone like JK Rowling, who has always been pretty Left, might as well be a MAGA supporter since she isn't 100% on board with the belief that any man who claims he's now a woman is 100% a woman and cannot be questioned?

No, you are misrepresenting me.  

Please don't state opinions on my behalf and then argue your version of what I think.  Also, my opinions (unlike yours) change.  So ... you know you can just ask me, or respond to my points on here.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

No, you have either misunderstood or not read enough on my takes.

No, you are misrepresenting me.  

Please don't state opinions on my behalf and then argue your version of what I think.  Also, my opinions (unlike yours) change.  So ... you know you can just ask me, or respond to my points on here.

A statement has a period at the end. A question has a question mark. You could start by telling us what you think of Rowling's take and the attacks on her over it.

Edited by Argus
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5 minutes ago, Argus said:

A statement has a period at the end. A question has a question mark.
1. You could start by telling us what you think of Rowling's take... 
2. and the attacks on her over it.

1. She has a right to state her opinion.  I don't know her position in general, but it has something (I think) with saying trans women aren't "women".  At least I'm assuming.  I am fine with thinking of and referring to my trans friends as women but there's nothing to force others to do that.
2. People are boycotting her, which is also their right.  I don't feel shocked by her opinion and as such wouldn't "attack" her, but several are morally outraged.

My take on it is that we should have social customs to deal with moral objections to public statements and policy.  We have some and they aren't perfect: protest, boycott, angry letters and tweets.   I think that we have economic and other challenges that need more attention than the Culture War.

If we can't resolve the issues, then they will persist but I would prefer for us to move forward to other issues now.  We certainly seem to have moved past same-sex marriage and abortion.  They are still protested, of course, and boycotted and so on but they're not really on the docket for public debate on a continuous basis as this issue is.

 

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. She has a right to state her opinion.  I don't know her position in general, but it has something (I think) with saying trans women aren't "women". 

She started out mocking an ad about 'people who menstruate' saying  “I’m sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud?”

Which was entirely within reason. For that she received howls of outrage, threats and demands to boycott all her work. Which just goes to show how fanatic the trans lobby is. She follows up by saying:

“If sex isn’t real, there’s no same-sex attraction,” she wrote shortly after her initial tweet. “If sex isn’t real, the lived reality of women globally is erased.”

Rowling continued: “I know and love trans people, but erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives.”

“My life has been shaped by being female. I do not believe it’s hateful to say so.”

For which she received numerous death threats and more shrill screams of denunciation.

28 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. People are boycotting her, which is also their right.

And threatening death and rape.

28 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

My take on it is that we should have social customs to deal with moral objections to public statements and policy. 

We used to. Now we're in the outrage universe where anything anyone says which goes against your personal doctrinaire social views must be relentlessly denounced and the person with those views punished.

What we have lost over certain issues is the understanding the well-meaning people can have different points of view. There seems to be an almost religious sense of fervor attached to certain views and a vicious antipathy towards those who commit 'blasphemy' or 'heresy'.  Transgenderism is one of those topics where no nuance is accepted by the activists.

 

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

1. For which she received numerous death threats and more shrill screams of denunciation.

2. And threatening death and rape.

3. We used to. Now we're in the outrage universe where anything anyone says which goes against your personal doctrinaire social views must be relentlessly denounced and the person with those views punished.

4. What we have lost over certain issues is the understanding the well-meaning people can have different points of view.

5. There seems to be an almost religious sense of fervor attached to certain views and a vicious antipathy towards those who commit 'blasphemy' or 'heresy'. 

6.Transgenderism is one of those topics where no nuance is accepted by the activists.

 

1. 2. I am most definitely against that.
3. I think what has changed is what some people think is 'outrageous'.  People have always been upset over things.  But liberalism is on the wane.
4. It doesn't matter if they're well-meaning or not.  Racists, anti-semites and misogynists are entitled to different points of view.  We don't have to say anything about the value of such statements when considering their rights to be said in public.
5. Interesting that you talk about 'religious fervor' because that flavour of outrage is tolerated and even protected in the constitution.  I'm in favour of that too.
6. Like abortion or white supremacy.  People get upset about things, who can say why...

Edited to add: The mere existence of death threats and maniacs doesn't invalidate the position of being pro-trans rights but that should be obvious.

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6 hours ago, dialamah said:

Not surprising; our society doesn't like to believe there are female child sexual offenders (FCSO).  Women are considered to be the nurturers and protectors of children, sexually passive and if they offend sexually, it's because they're under the control and direction of men.  FCSO target boys more than girls, from children to adolescents, so why isn't there any outcry (online or off) about how 'women lie about being male so they can access male areas'?  Along with some testosterone-overloaded guys declaring "If a woman pretending to be a man is in a washroom with my boy, I'd beat the crap outta her!"  

The reason the outcry is only about MtF trans people is because it resonates emotionally with people.  It seems a lot more plausible than FtM accessing male spaces for perverted reasons, so that's the focus.  Get people responding viscerally to 'protect the women and children' and all objectivity disappears.

Also, consider that every day, millions of pedophiles access spaces where there are children.  Yet, nobody is up in arms about that - insisting that adults who enter spaces where there are children should have to prove they aren't perverts.  Such expectations are directly solely towards MtF trans people because that is what gets people emotional instead of thoughtful.

I'm sure people such as you describe exist, those who would "beat the crap outta her!", just as I know there are those who would beat the crap out of me for supporting women in this issue, but, as I said before, they aren't me, as much as the latter group are not you.

I get neither emotional or thoughtful about either MtF or FtM transexuals.  I wish them all the best, but I support those who want their own spaces, and their own competitions.

 

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4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

They just don't want trans people to exist.  A large male-looking trans woman is wanted in no washroom by such people.  I propose we let them pee on the hoods of the cars in the parking lot with MAGA stickers.  Problem solved.

Sure, now there's no spark plugs any more!  What if it's a classic?

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On 7/26/2021 at 2:08 PM, Michael Hardner said:

Yes that's what I posted.

Washroom stalls, shower stalls. These are merely a problem with construction. Places can be designed for privacy.

For example, I like the new urinals that have a small privacy panel between them, because I don't want to get splashed by someone else's piss.

;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Olympics haven't done themselves any favours in recent years with so much childhood silliness now being considered medal "sports", but the so-called freight train of "transgender" indoctrination will finish them as more and more men compete in more and more women's sports. We'll go blind from the asterisks cluttering every column of results.

We're not going to make it are we?

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19 minutes ago, RedDog said:

 We're not going to make it are we?

My guess is that most of the people against these things will be well in the ground before it comes close to bothersome.  My grandfather wouldn't abide by today's social policies, but it's ok as he died 50 years ago so he doesn't need to live with it.

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Just now, bcsapper said:

It's in your nature to destroy yourselves.

The best type of society to survive existential challenges is open, lawful and free like ours.  The best examples cited of illiberalism are infrequent and wide-spread, but the truly woke will deny that there are any.

So you have the woke who deny there are any problems with this new wave of seeing the woke and the anti-woke who rant about it online.

My gut feeling is that most people are like me and have other things to do than imagining LeBron James donning a dress and trying to get into the NBA. 😂

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3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The best type of society to survive existential challenges is open, lawful and free like ours.  The best examples cited of illiberalism are infrequent and wide-spread, but the truly woke will deny that there are any.

So you have the woke who deny there are any problems with this new wave of seeing the woke and the anti-woke who rant about it online.

My gut feeling is that most people are like me and have other things to do than imagining LeBron James donning a dress and trying to get into the NBA. 😂

I was just quoting Arnold...

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21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

My guess is that most of the people against these things will be well in the ground before it comes close to bothersome.  My grandfather wouldn't abide by today's social policies, but it's ok as he died 50 years ago so he doesn't need to live with it.

"... most of the people against..."

Are you saying then that you support men in women's sport competing against women?

Edited by RedDog
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8 minutes ago, RedDog said:

1. "... most of the people against..."

2. Are you saying then that you support men in women's sport competing against women?

1. I am more inclined to laugh at the arguments here against wokeism, because they don't seem to have any teeth.  It's much more difficult to argue with those who have entrenched arguments in favour of illiberalism.  I prefer 'illiberalism' because THAT is what we have to be careful of, not calling someone a woman if they ask you to.
2. Most of the time the answer is 'I do not care'.  If people are all for it, then why should I start caring about women's sports now ?  I almost never watch it, so I'm not going to stand up for it when it's faced with hyperbolic what-if scenarios.

I'm pretty sure that people generally can work something out in this area without my help.

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25 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I am more inclined to laugh at the arguments here against wokeism, because they don't seem to have any teeth.  It's much more difficult to argue with those who have entrenched arguments in favour of illiberalism.  I prefer 'illiberalism' because THAT is what we have to be careful of, not calling someone a woman if they ask you to.
2. Most of the time the answer is 'I do not care'.  If people are all for it, then why should I start caring about women's sports now ?  I almost never watch it, so I'm not going to stand up for it when it's faced with hyperbolic what-if scenarios.

I'm pretty sure that people generally can work something out in this area without my help.

I asked a polite question and got back a typical liberal load of drivel. Anyone can ask me to refer to them as a rhinoceros if they wish but the question remains, should men be competing in women's sport?

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8 minutes ago, RedDog said:

I asked a polite question and got back a typical liberal load of drivel. Anyone can ask me to refer to them as a rhinoceros if they wish but the question remains, should men be competing in women's sport?

What's drivel about it ?  And my answer was plenty polite ... I don't care much at all who competes with who.  I don't think you would care either, if it wasn't a pillar of the culture war.

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On 7/22/2021 at 6:34 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

Why is a person's gender important to anyone else?

Exactly, but especially more-so to the person having the mental difficulty. THEY are the one’s deeming it apparently “important” so that’s naturally going to invite other opinion from those who want the individual to get the mental help they need. This is because we’re a caring and compassionate society.

Gender can never change. A mentally ill person can even saw their pee pee off, but they cannot change their chromosomes. Male are XY and female are XX. It’s painful for others to see such a pointless suffering.

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On 8/7/2021 at 2:24 PM, RedDog said:

Exactly, but especially more-so to the person having the mental difficulty. THEY are the one’s deeming it apparently “important” so that’s naturally going to invite other opinion from those who want the individual to get the mental help they need. This is because we’re a caring and compassionate society.

Gender can never change. A mentally ill person can even saw their pee pee off, but they cannot change their chromosomes. Male are XY and female are XX. It’s painful for others to see such a pointless suffering.

You should be aware that the need for Gender re-assignment surgery is not caused by mental illness. As the character in Transamerica said, “Don’t you find it odd that surgery can cure a mental disorder?”

Being transgender is no more a mental disorder than being gay although they are not the same thing.

How would you classify cd’s or transvestites or drag queens or drag kings? Are they mentally ill?

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