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The transgender insanity movement


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On 12/2/2018 at 4:55 PM, Michael Hardner said:

Attacked ?  You just called it 'the insanity movement'.  Pot/kettle.

Meh.  Things change, I guess.  You can't really use a lot of words without retribution anymore.

This is being worked out:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00948705.2017.1317602?af=R&journalCode=rjps20#_i8 (Journal of the Philosophy of Sport argues for handicap)

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/39/10/695 (British Journal of Sports Medicine says there is no consensus) 
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jan/25/ioc-rules-transgender-athletes-can-take-part-in-olympics-without-surgery (IOC - testosterone limits)

Obviously a horrifying situation, for which the Prison Service has apologized and vowed to correct:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-45825838

 

So you're okay with men going into girls bathrooms and raping the girls? You're okay with a teacher getting fired for not using the proper pronoun? You're okay with men competing in women's sports?
Seig Heil.

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On 9/18/2022 at 9:16 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

Everyone these days is paralyzed by fear for just speaking common sense.  That's not good.

Hard to say with her fear drives this, or just the sheer weight of bureaucracy behind trying to deal with a situation like this.

Some tweets out there indicate that this person is actually trolling the system, which makes it even harder to deal with.

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4 hours ago, reason10 said:

So you're okay with men going into girls bathrooms and raping the girls? You're okay with a teacher getting fired for not using the proper pronoun? You're okay with men competing in women's sports?
Seig Heil.

What nonsense.

Why do you come to a discussion forum to post stuff like that?

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 12/2/2018 at 5:55 PM, Michael Hardner said:

Attacked ?  You just called it 'the insanity movement'.  Pot/kettle.

Meh.  Things change, I guess.  You can't really use a lot of words without retribution anymore.

This is being worked out:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00948705.2017.1317602?af=R&journalCode=rjps20#_i8 (Journal of the Philosophy of Sport argues for handicap)

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/39/10/695 (British Journal of Sports Medicine says there is no consensus) 
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jan/25/ioc-rules-transgender-athletes-can-take-part-in-olympics-without-surgery (IOC - testosterone limits)

Obviously a horrifying situation, for which the Prison Service has apologized and vowed to correct:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-45825838

 

Here's what I don't understand: Why do WokeGooseSteppers insist there could be as much as 100 genders. In Gender Reassignment surgery, there is only one choice: The opposite sex.

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  • 2 months later...

I feel there should be unisex washrooms in public buildings. 

If a business claims to be inclusive, this should be the bare minimum.

With that said, I do dislike the overuse of the word transphobic which has now been wielded as a weapon towards anyone you don't agree with.

I don't like your point, so you're transphobic, regardless of facts and research. I don't agree with this.

While I don't agree with Dave Chapelle on all that he says, the aggressive push to attempt to silence his voice due to trans jokes prove that point. For the record, he is a comedian that pokes fun of many other minorities and socially vulnerable groups, with very little protest regarding that. So is it really about defending the vulnerable?

I also however also dislike someone deliberately telling a trans woman (or man) that they are a male (or female), for no other reason to dismiss their existence.

The trans community isn't the issue here. I feel the activists, pushing for draconian changes to certain freedoms of speech, or this perverse push to completely crush any dissenting views is quite troubling, considering I have been to countries where such freedoms have fully been suppressed.

Typically such suppresions start at the language. No better way to crush dissent, that to start at the most basic means of how you identify yourself through speech.

I'm a live and let live type. The trans community hasn't ever hurt me, so I don't understand why I should hate them for simply wanting to exist.

Only place where there is a clash, is where I am supposed to believe whatever you tell me to believe, and that questioning any of it equates bigotry. Sorry, but I strongly believe in logic, and as a result want to know the good the bad and the ugly about anything that I learn about.

This isn't a trans issue, however. They should be left out of that equation, as a result.

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In general, I'm opposed to normalizing stupidity that does harm.

An example might be pushing the idea men can have periods.

Impressionable kids watch such crap and it normalizes their confusion to adopt the idea their mental discomfort has to be gender related. Men can be women right? They can have periods.

More telling of harm would be something like "Admiral" Rachel Levine in America wanting to push sex change procedures on kids for potential revenue.

https://dailycallernewsfoundation.org/2023/02/17/unearthed-emails-show-rachel-levine-discussing-potential-revenue-from-child-sex-change-procedures/

Grooming kids to accept the trans before they can think for themselves is wrong. Parents, activists, teachers who go along with it are a special kind of criminally stupid.

Accepting that kind of nuttiness leads to where anything and everything is OK. This, for example:

 

 

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Yeah, or the videos I've seen of a trans woman who was devastated that she couldn't lactate to breastfeed her baby. Its the type of thing that everyone is thinking, but nobody will say a thing about, petrified of being called transphobic--but that you can't lactate, because your body is not equipped with a female reproductive system. No amount of surgery will change this.

People don't want to say anything, but then you literally have people believing they can have periods, or can lactate, which is just insane.

I'm a live and let live person, so if you want to believe the above is possible, I'll let you without attempting to change your mind. I draw the line, in being ordered to play along.

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I came across this by accident, but it seems to be a sensitive, common-sense explanation for the explosion in transgenderism and the dangers of accepting children's claims without considerable psychological counseling.

The metamorphosis of puberty is hard for almost everyone. For girls, though, there is a specific trauma. You don’t simply become an adult: you become a product on the sexual marketplace, regardless of your own will. This divides you: you learn to see yourself from the outside, as an object, through the imagined eyes of men. You lose your space in the world, and any part of you that goes beyond the strictly minimal can start to feel like grotesque excess.

https://unherd.com/2023/02/the-tragedy-of-becoming-a-woman/

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On 8/25/2022 at 9:29 AM, dialamah said:

humans are not black and white in any aspect, including gender

That is correct.

However, inclusion shouldn't be at the expense of others, in my humble opinion. That defeats the purpose.

My wife isn't a birthing person. She is a woman who gave birth. She has periods. Surely isn't a menstruating person. She is incredibly proud to be a woman, and is a very strong one. 

Forcing this language that at times dismisses others, is propping one demographic up, and crushing another.

I think when people can't even tell you what a woman is anymore or how many genders that there are, you cross a line in my opinion where you go from inclusion, to an attempt to control speech.

You keep things so vague and the consequences for dissent so severe, that order is maintained via fear.

I look at a condition like someone being albino. If their skin is white, it doesn't necessarily make them white. They're albino. If they decided to identify as white, they can do as they please, but reality would set in, if they had children.

I will respect anyone trans, and feel their rights matter as much as anyone else's. 

But the same applies regarding basic biology. Identify as you see fit. Okay, so you're intersex. This is a condition. Just like having 7 fingers. It isn't the norm for the virtual majority which is why it isn't taught in school for the latter.

If a trans woman calls me bigoted for refusing to go out on a date with her or finding male genitalia unattractive, and that she is no different than say, someone like my wife, I don't bother arguing and smile and nod.

Sad part, is we have started smiling and nodding, socially.

I have traveled the globe, and been in countries where the trans community is allowed to thrive. 

I can think of somewhere like Thailand, where they are incredibly common. 

Teach kids self love and respect for others. Will go a longer way.

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28 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. However, inclusion shouldn't be at the expense of others, in my humble opinion. That defeats the purpose.

2. Forcing this language that at times dismisses others, is propping one demographic up, and crushing another.

3. I think when people can't even tell you what a woman is anymore or how many genders that there are, you cross a line in my opinion where you go from inclusion, to an attempt to control speech.

4.  Sad part, is we have started smiling and nodding, socially.

5. Teach kids self love and respect for others. Will go a longer way.

1.   Huh ?  So emancipation shouldn't be at the expense of slave owners then... "Balance" means... some win and some lose.
2.  You can't force language.  People will use "woke" language over time by their own will.
3.  A new terminology will emerge that addresses the utility of identifying "born as female" IMO.
4.  Because most people don't care enough about this to p*ss off those who do care and favour the new language.
5.  Respect includes using respectful language right ?

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.   Huh ?  So emancipation shouldn't be at the expense of slave owners then... "Balance" means... some win and some lose.
2.  You can't force language.  People will use "woke" language over time by their own will.
3.  A new terminology will emerge that addresses the utility of identifying "born as female" IMO.
4.  Because most people don't care enough about this to p*ss off those who do care and favour the new language.
5.  Respect includes using respectful language right ?

1. Balance does mean some win and lose but there is a point of loss that if you're sacrificing your own identity to appease others, then the price is too high in my opinion. 

This doesn't accomplish a thing other than further division. Thats not equity. Thats social control, and the policing of language vs the more natural point you're making on a natural evolution to language. 

2. You can't force language, but you can control it. Social shaming is highly effective.

3. That's fair, but current terminology is inaccurate. Sex isn't assigned at birth. Doctors determine sex simply by looking at genitals. Being inclusive at the expense if basic biology is where I draw the line, personally.

Being intersex doesn't change biology. It just means a microscopic percentile of people are physically born with variations to their genitalia. 

Just like you wouldn't state that there are people with 7 fingers for the very few born this way. Of course you don't want to label it a disorder or deformity. Language has evolved to avoid creating a stigma around things that have occurred naturally. Not because biology has changed.

4. Most don't want to be doxxed and cancel, so fear to speak up. Many refuse to define a woman. That's fear based, vs favoring new language.

5. Who sets the standard and what is it based off of? 

Something being offensive isn't a standard, as anything can be offensive to anyone.

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58 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. Balance does mean some win and lose but there is a point of loss that if you're sacrificing your own identity to appease others, then the price is too high in my opinion. 

2. This doesn't accomplish a thing other than further division. Thats not equity. Thats social control, and the policing of language vs the more natural point you're making on a natural evolution to language. 

3. You can't force language, but you can control it. Social shaming is highly effective. 

4. Language has evolved to avoid creating a stigma around things that have occurred naturally. Not because biology has changed.

5. Most don't want to be doxxed and cancel, so fear to speak up. Many refuse to define a woman. That's fear based, vs favoring new language.

6. Who sets the standard and what is it based off of? 

7. Something being offensive isn't a standard, as anything can be offensive to anyone.

1. I don't think that this point will convince anyone to change their views.
2. It was happening before.  You seem to think that your perspective will matter to those who have been forced to the margins in the past.  I don't think it will.
3. That is what is happening with these changes.
4. No - social relations have changed.  Have you used the term Ms. before ?
5. Maybe, maybe not.  You said "most" but most support gender protection being added to the human rights act anyway.   Hard to say if your assertion is valid.
6. It's a social trend - everyone affects it just as butterfly wings affect the weather.
7. But social mores exist nonetheless.  

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3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I don't think that this point will convince anyone to change their views.

1. Its a lot easier to change views, when there is a standard behind the view being made. 

Gender is a lot more complicated as there is a social expectation that people are supposed to care about how one feels inside.

Identify as you see fit. I will politely oblige to pronouns, but for gender ideology to make this fact, or worse, the law, is where we disagree.

Laws should protect human rights and unless your feelings were hurt by something like harassment or other illegal behavior, I don't agree in things like laws to protect against misgendering someone, unless again  the actual behavior behind it is criminal. IE harassment.

All my life, I have been called the whitest black male people knew. I am clearly not white, but it never stopped people from poking fun of it. I ski, I play hockey, I love country, rock, I guess that makes me white.

Point being made, is the world doesn't care about how one feels inside. 

Its easier to get a point across with logic than the feelings pushing some of this ideology forward.

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16 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. Its a lot easier to change views, when there is a standard behind the view being made. 

2. I will politely oblige to pronouns, but for gender ideology to make this fact, or worse, the law, is where we disagree.

3. Laws should protect human rights and unless your feelings were hurt by something like harassment or other illegal behavior, I don't agree in things like laws to protect against misgendering someone, unless again  the actual behavior behind it is criminal. IE harassment.

 

1. "if you're sacrificing your own identity to appease others"  is not a standard because it's so subjective.  Either side would say they're sacrificing based on whether it's status quo or a major social change.
2. Well it sounds like you are following the Human Rights code to me.
3. There are no laws that protect against misgendering, being racist, sexist and so on per se.

 

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  • 6 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

There were duelling protests at schools yesterday, across Canada. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/rallies-gender-schools-1.6972606

Do we really have hard evidence of schools encouraging students to be Trans? Is it even possible for a school to facilitate an underage student to transition to another gender completely ignorant of their parents? I'm not seeing it.

Is the questionable curriculum simply the fact that they acknowledge there are LGBT families and people do feel they were born the wrong sex/gender? What evidence is there of Grooming? 

Or is this caustic debate simply about pronouns and how some Provinces are telling teachers that they have to let a parent know if a child wants to go by a different pronoun.

If a child really believes that being Gay or Trans will cause them harm, then no a parent shouldn't be told. It's just a pronoun. It's not removing their genitals. 

I'm certainly reinforcing traditional gender stereotypes with my children. But kids grow up differently than I was, we need to embrace that somewhat and not freak out like these people protesting yesterday.  

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On 2/18/2023 at 3:50 PM, Perspektiv said:

Yeah, or the videos I've seen of a trans woman who was devastated that she couldn't lactate to breastfeed her baby. Its the type of thing that everyone is thinking, but nobody will say a thing about, petrified of being called transphobic--but that you can't lactate, because your body is not equipped with a female reproductive system. No amount of surgery will change this.

People don't want to say anything, but then you literally have people believing they can have periods, or can lactate, which is just insane.

I'm a live and let live person, so if you want to believe the above is possible, I'll let you without attempting to change your mind. I draw the line, in being ordered to play along.

Are you being order to though? 

Or are you ordering trans people to go away so you don't have to confront idea that they may feel like they're "gender" does't match their sex? 

TBH I'm seeing more aggression from those that don't want Trans issue being discussed at all. 

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7 hours ago, Boges said:

There were duelling protests at schools yesterday, ...

Read the articles you posted. I don't think a single protest happened at a school.

7 hours ago, Boges said:

 

Or is this caustic debate simply about pronouns and how some Provinces are telling teachers that they have to let a parent know if a child wants to go by a different pronoun.

 

The protest is unwieldy, and the participants are angry and not much more.

 

No two of them will articulate their point the same way, and none of them are directing the protest towards any platform that would result in change of any kind.

 

It's just a perpetual parade of anger, even calling it a protest is probably inaccurate.

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2 hours ago, Boges said:

TBH I'm seeing more aggression from those that don't want Trans issue being discussed at all. 

And the decline of institutions also means that these arguments are going to be between tribal groups of people rather than representative groups, with policies processes and limits on how they express themselves.

So somebody saying that they saw a trans woman talking about lactation isn't about one person talking, they represent an entire movement to that person.  Similarly all of the marchers that I spoke to, and I mean all of them, say different things and will invoke trudeau, the w e f, and call teachers groomers.

Can we say anything about these groups then? Maybe not.

---+

What we can say is that trans rights are enshrined in law, and schools will teach what they need to to balance the views of the public, and teach the value of tolerance and acceptance.

 

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26 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/9971454/polling-canadians-split-gender-trans-issues/amp/

 

As usual, the Canadian public falls in the middle. About 70% with support their child coming out as trans but only 20% would support hormone therapy.

I didn't check your link, but don't see that as in the middle. I would think the majority of parents would want to know if their child feels they are trans. 

But I would also think that a minority would want them to take hormone therapy at that early age. If they still feel the same way by the time they are the age of reason, they can still do that.

I don't see those views as split at all. 

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23 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. I didn't check your link, but don't see that as in the middle. I would think the majority of parents would want to know if their child feels they are trans. 

2. But I would also think that a minority would want them to take hormone therapy at that early age. If they still feel the same way by the time they are the age of reason, they can still do that.

3. I don't see those views as split at all. 

1. They would support them is the point 

2. Yes I said that.

3. It's split from the extreme points of the debate.

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