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Will Conservatives lose official opposition status in next election?  

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You equate violence with someone smoking around you. I don't see how that is the same. If someone is smoking near you or if there is smoking in a bar you can leave.
I would equate smoking to urinating in public. It is extremely distasteful and there are legitimate health concerns. Do you believe that government prohibitions on urinating in public should be removed as well?

You also have to remember that 20-25 years ago people could not choose to go somewhere else because smokers were allowed to spew their filth everywhere. That is why the gov't had to crack down and pass regulations: to ensure non-smokers had a choice. Now that smoking has been banned from virtually everywhere I could see the rational in letting bars be the sole exception - however - the workers compensation board is now paying out claims to people who get lung cancer from second hand workplace smoke. So it seems a bit strange to pay out the claims yet not pass any regulations to protect workers in the first place.

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You equate violence with someone smoking around you. I don't see how that is the same. If someone is smoking near you or if there is smoking in a bar you can leave.
I would equate smoking to urinating in public. It is extremely distasteful and there are legitimate health concerns. Do you believe that government prohibitions on urinating in public should be removed as well?

You also have to remember that 20-25 years ago people could not choose to go somewhere else because smokers were allowed to spew their filth everywhere. That is why the gov't had to crack down and pass regulations: to ensure non-smokers had a choice. Now that smoking has been banned from virtually everywhere I could see the rational in letting bars be the sole exception - however - the workers compensation board is now paying out claims to people who get lung cancer from second hand workplace smoke. So it seems a bit strange to pay out the claims yet not pass any regulations to protect workers in the first place.

But they did know before hand that there was smoking aloowed in the establishment. At my work ( i work in a machine shop) the air isn't the greatest, but i can choose a different field. I just make sure to get a check up every year and keep healthy. I think at one time people had a legitimite beef because the cigerette companies were lying, but now that we all know i don't think people do. I am 31 years old now and have known the dangers of smoking since i was around 7.

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My having to move because of the action another person is taking is an assault. If someone is punching the air where I am standing it is not my responsibility to move in order to avoid getting hit. Your right to smoke stops where that right interferes with my right to breathe.

If someone takes an action that physically harms me then I should have the right to defend myself with all nessecary force in order to prevent the continuance of that harm.

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My having to move because of the action another person is taking is an assault. If someone is punching the air where I am standing it is not my responsibility to move in order to avoid getting hit.  Your right to smoke stops where that right interferes with my right to breathe.

If someone takes an action that physically harms me then I should have the right to defend myself with all nessecary force in order to prevent the continuance of that harm.

Well then maybe you should start punching out anyone who drives. Alot of toxins come out of the tail pipe. I don't think violence is the answer. And i doubt being around someone for a few minutes who lights up will do you any harm.

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Guest eureka

Indeed there are legitimate health concerns surrounding smoking. There are the concerns of people with Parkinson,s disease, Crohn's and a number of other diseases that smoking has been shown to have beneficial effects on.

There is the concern of those who like to think a little more quickly as smoking has been shown to stimulate thought.

There is also the concern that the lung cancer issue may be a crock. 50 years ago far more people smoked and smoked more and stronger cigarettes. Yet, lung cancer was not rampant the way it is today and neither were many of the other plagues that are said to be caused by smoking.

Could it be that there are more sinister forces that our captains of industry do not want to address?

Certainly smoking is a net contributor to ill health. I suspect, though, that it is far less damaging than it is made out to be and that other pollutants are far more dangerous.

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Well then maybe you should start punching out anyone who drives. Alot of toxins come out of the tail pipe. I don't think violence is the answer. And i doubt being around someone for a few minutes who lights up will do you any harm.

You are ignoring the essential point and that is that you are drawing a line, there is no absolute standard to which your line is any more reasonable, justifiable or fair then mine and thus it becomes the providence of government as a representative of the people. I don't know where the general population stands on smoking but considering the declining number of smokers I would think that most would be in favor (although that is just conjecture).

There is also the concern that the lung cancer issue may be a crock. 50 years ago far more people smoked and smoked more and stronger cigarettes. Yet, lung cancer was not rampant the way it is today and neither were many of the other plagues that are said to be caused by smoking.

50 years ago people died at a much earlier age, they were also often not diagnosed as to the cause of death and if they were diagnosed then it was often not attributed to anything. Although you are right living in an urban setting is the equivalent of smoking between 10 and 40 cigarettes a day which would more then make up for the differences (if they can be trusted).

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Well then maybe you should start punching out anyone who drives. Alot of toxins come out of the tail pipe. I don't think violence is the answer. And i doubt being around someone for a few minutes who lights up will do you any harm.

You are ignoring the essential point and that is that you are drawing a line, there is no absolute standard to which your line is any more reasonable, justifiable or fair then mine and thus it becomes the providence of government as a representative of the people. I don't know where the general population stands on smoking but considering the declining number of smokers I would think that most would be in favor (although that is just conjecture).

I didn't draw a line. would you punch out everyone that is driving a car. They too are intefering with your right to breathe. If the answer is no then you have drawn a line. I am ok with people smoking and if it bothers me i leave.

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Poisoning people with vehicle fumes is still socially acceptable, smoking no longer is. I don't know where you live but where I live there is no smoking in any private business, nor public building, and that includes bars. It is game over for the smokers I'm afraid.

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Poisoning people with vehicle fumes is still socially acceptable, smoking no longer is. I don't know where youy live but where i live there is no smoking in any private business nor public building and that includes bars. It is game over for the smokers I'm afraid.

I know it is a long shot but laws can change.

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RE:::Get used to it: It's called Progress. I know that's an alien concept in Conservative circles, but thankfully, the Cons arn't able to Con Canadians that often.

But it's not for lack of trying is it?

2 party name changes,3 party leader changes and a merger and still they are down in the polss.

Not to mention I might add the adoption of the Conservative name!

Hello!!!! :blink:

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Why do people think the Liberals are up in the polls?

I think it is partly to do with balanced budgets, addressing the debt, although we still do have a way to go here, and a fairly robust economy. PM Martin is connected with balanced budgets and beginning to pay off the debt.

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If you don't want to drink some beers in a bar because of smoke, don't go. It's that simple.

I don't understand this,

I imagine that's just about the most oft repeated phrase in your vocabulary. Along iwth "Duhhh".

shouldn't I have the right to punch someone in the face if they are smoking near me? Why should the government interfere with that? What if someone is pooring posion into my water supply? should I just avoid drinking it?

What if it's not your water supply. What if it's someone else's water supply who puts up a sign saying stay away if you don't like poison in your water. Do you still have the right to assault them?

Singapore would be a better example, and they're not doing so badly. Zimbabwe has busted itself, arguably, in pursuit of social equality - taking productive land out of the hands of those who made it productive, and giving it to unproductive people who did little or nothing with it.

WTH are you talking about? The same Singapore that gives you lashs for spitting your gum on the sidewalk?

Try to pay attention. We're talking about economies and social safety nets, not gum chewing and odd laws.

Because being a socialist means being not only arrogant enough to "know" how your neighbour should live his life, but arrogant enough to demand the government force him to live his life as you want, oh, and to take away almost all his money in order to do it. Socialists are basically Communists who live in a country with too good an education system to convince enough people to help them put Communism in place. Socialists have the same knee-jerk reflexes, though, in their determination to put in place lots and lots and lots of rules and laws and regulations to govern every aspect of everyone's lives, their jealousy of those who make too much money, and their outrage whenever anyone disagrees with their views of the world.

Personally I love free speech, there’s nothing better to separate the loud mouth no nothings from the intelligent productive members’ then free speech.

True enough, and you've done an excellent job very early in what I expect to be a brief tenure here to demonstrate the ample size of your oral orifice.

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What if it's not your water supply. What if it's someone else's water supply who puts up a sign saying stay away if you don't like poison in your water. Do you still have the right to assault them?

Water supplies as air supplies are shared; you don't own a water supply. Although I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you wouldn't know that.

Try to pay attention. We're talking about economies and social safety nets, not gum chewing and odd laws.

Were talking about social law, try to keep up. Not that it matters because Singapore has a very heavily controlled economy regardless.

True enough, and you've done an excellent job very early in what I expect to be a brief tenure here to demonstrate the ample size of your oral orifice.

Yes, because I am the one that has lied constantly, representing a limited knowledge base as if it were somehow coming from above. But I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised ideologues don't need to do research, they have "intuition".

As for the rather silly comparison to cars, that really holds no weight until

1. Someone argues for the right to park an idling car in the middle of a bar

2. Cars become pointless

3. We lose our very heavy restrictions of vehicle emissions.

Further to your idea that your not drawing a line...

I guess I will just have to spell it out for you

My line

Vehicle Emissions

---------------------------------------- <-- My line for assault

Smoking in a confined environment

Punching someone in the face

Your Line

Vehicle Emissions

Smoking in a confined environment

---------------------------------------- <-- Your line for assault

Punching someone in the face

Get it now?

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You also have to remember that 20-25 years ago people could not choose to go somewhere else because smokers were allowed to spew their filth everywhere. That is why the gov't had to crack down and pass regulations: to ensure non-smokers had a choice.

Drivel. Non-smokers always had a choice. There were more than enough of them that if they'd really cared much there'd have been more non-smoking bars, restaurants and clubs.

Now that smoking has been banned from virtually everywhere I could see the rational in letting bars be the sole exception - however - the workers compensation board is now paying out claims to people who get lung cancer from second hand workplace smoke. So it seems a bit strange to pay out the claims yet not pass any regulations to protect workers in the first place.

Worker's compensation pays people who get hurt in inherantly dangerous jobs all the time, but it doesn't close down those jobs because there's no way of making them safer. There were numerous ways of minimizing any danger to workers at a bar or restaurant that had smoking -starting with good ventilation. The risk to staff would have been negligible compared, for example, to someone who works in the streets every day inhaling pollution.

The reason no exceptions were made was that the no-smoking drive was led by zealots of the left who had the mentality that they were 100 percent right, that they were, if you like, on a holy mission from God, and that anyone who opposed them was an infidel deserving of no respect or notice. Compromise of any kind would have admitted that there was just the slightest possible way to arrive at their stated goals without crushing the opposition, and they couldn't stand that thought. They WANTED to crush the opposition. Like all holy warriors.

And btw, I've never smoked in my life.

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My having to move because of the action another person is taking is an assault. If someone is punching the air where I am standing it is not my responsibility to move in order to avoid getting hit.  Your right to smoke stops where that right interferes with my right to breathe.

If someone takes an action that physically harms me then I should have the right to defend myself with all nessecary force in order to prevent the continuance of that harm.

:rolleyes: Ah, there's nothing like self-righteous hyperbole in the morning.

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