What's Quebec's problem?

[Guest eureka]

August, when you say that my observations on Quebec are nonsense you should first think over your information. There are few people in Canada who were more deeply involved in these affairs than I for a period of several years and I have kept up with it since.

What those names are has little connexion to the obsession for purity. The Quebeckers I wrote of think of a few Irish immigrants who stopped in Quebec as amongst there forebears. The reality is that the proportion is huge and has been estimated in the range I gave.

For your suggestion that what I am writing about language is nonsense, I will respond with one question. Are you a member of a union? If you are, are you aware that the Language Laws require that any communication to you must be in French and that applies even if the Union is in an English speaking industry and all its members are English speaking - perhaps unilingual.

If you want to keep up the "nonsense" ejaculations, I will give you another example each time.

I was one of the movers in the Quebec Federation of Home and Schools Associations challenge to Bill 101 and wrote part of the statement of Claim. I cna give you many horror stories. Stories that would have the Canadian people on the march into Quebec could they ever learn the truth.

I think you do know these things. You are obviously too intelligent and politically aware not to. I have to wonder what is your own rationale for trying to paint a picture of Quebec as sweetness and light.

[Bakunin]

Well, it's nice to knowit's nothing 'personal', but it doesn't really explain the logic involved. How is secession a rational response to corruption among some Liberals?

The sovreignty movement was at 47% before the sponsorship scandal. it was at 50% at the last federal election, one year later its at 54%. The strong suport for sovreignty among the 18-24 while the 65+ are slowly dying played a role. There is no doubt the gomery comission and the provincial liberal helped because the federalist camp lost alot of credibility lately. Pierre trudeau, claude ryan died, jean chretien is linked to gomery and many other scandal, jean charest government is doing a very very bad job, Paul martin has never been a strong national unity defender. On the other hand gilles duceppe is the most popular quebec politican according to the polls. We can also count on Lucien Bouchard and possibly the "right wing" lead by Mario Dumont if we do another referendum.

There are no such conventions, Bakunin. The National Debt is a debt of the country of Canada. A separate Quebec would be a new entity with no obligation at all to share in the Canadian government's indebtedness.

It his true that quebec would have no obligation to pay its share of the debt but the vienna convention say that it should pay an equitable amount, it say it would hardly be justified not to pay its part. A sample would be based on either the pib, the % population of quebec, or the actif on quebec territory. If nobody agree, the international court will choose. There wont be endless discution like the liberal say to scare people.

[I miss Reagan]

If you want to keep up the "nonsense" ejaculations, I will give you another example each time.

pffft. ya sexist

[Guest eureka]

I suppose that I should really be supporting Harper in the Stronach affair!

[Guest eureka]

Those English institutions, August, were built by the English community with their own money and without any input from government. That is just about all the Universities and colleges in Quebec. The same goes for the English hospitals as well as almost all the business institutions of the province.

They were built, mostly, before education became compulsory in Quebec only in 1949. That is before many Francophone Quebeckers had more than a couple of grades of schooling. They have been, in many cases, expropriated by the Government of Quebec.

The so recent education of Francophone Quebeckers is one of the unspoken reasons behind the language laws and the threat of separatism that is used to get away with that.

The first generation of educated Francophones appeared only in the 1960's and, since they now had a couple of years of college or a university education, wanted more than the Province had offered before. They wanted meaningful jobs.

The small proportion of the educated had previously been absorbed in the goverment; the professions; and the Church. Now, there were too many for that and there were no French Businesses.

The result was social unrest, The language laws were brought in to force English business to become French and to replace English employees with French.

This was one of the major impulses behind the laws and it backfired as about 40% of English business left the Province rather than submit.

In all modern history, there has only been one other example of laws like Quebec's. That was in the Hungary of the Austro/Hungarian Empire. Hungary enacted similar laws with respect to its minorities. They led to the destruction of the Austrian Empire and the destruction of Hungary itself as the minorities fought back and established their own separate nations.

There are indeed English Language papers in Quebec. But, not so many as ther were as the English population has been halved. Remeber the Montreal Star; one of the best Canadian newspapers that went under in the late 70's when there was no longer the readership for two major dailies?

[Rovik]

If Quebec ever separates, it will not be an easy process but a very ugly one.

The impact won't be so much on Ontario west but on the Atlantic provinces. They would be cut off from the rest of Canada would be impacted very negatively.

In Newfoundland alone I can see a lot of problems. First, it's no secret that Quebec covets Labrador and would go after it, if it became a separate country. This could rile up Newfoundlanders and Canadians as a whole.

Newfoundland might try to null and void the horrible contract it signed with Quebec involving Churchill Falls saying that it had a deal with a province of Canada, not an independant country.

The fishing rights could be changed dramatically as many Quebec fishermen would be cut off to many of the fish stocks they now have as much of the quota would be given to Canadian fishermen.

And who knows what would happen with shipping tariffs and employment (such as Quebecois working in Canada and vice-versa) as well as many of the economic nightmares that have already mentioned and so on and so on.

In addition, many of the native people in Northern Quebec have no desire to be part of the country of Quebec but would want to stay in Canada. This could result in a major court challenge and anomosity on both sides.

So to those separtists who say there would be little impact (as well as some columnists, especially in western Canada) who also say this, I would disagree wholeheartedly.

[Riverwind]

In addition, many of the native people in Northern Quebec have no desire to be part of the country of Quebec but would want to stay in Canada.  This could result in a major court challenge and anomosity on both sides.

THe natives could decide to stick with an independent Quebec, however, that would only happen after the seperatist gov't acknowledges that Quebec has no claim on the northern territories. A compromise that seperatists would likely never be able to make. On the other hand, the Canadian gov't would be in a position to give the natives that recognition.

Citizenship is also over-looked as an issue. Most Quebequers assume that they will be allowed to keep their Canadian citizenship if Quebec were to seperate, however, it is rediculous to think that Canada could function if 20% of the eligible voters were living in and paying taxes to another country. As a result, many federalists will find that if they want to remain Canadian they must:

1) Relocate to Canada as soon as possible.

2) Support the partition of Quebec.

Both options will have a significant negative effect on the economy of an independent Quebec.

In short breaking up a country is a nasty business and cannot be justified unless there is overwhelming (>75%) support for such a move.

Regards

[Conrad]

You people just don't get it.Quebec does not want to separate,their true goal is to govern all of Canada.We liberals know this,and also can never let it happen.Money keeps them content enough to just have the seperation parties in place,and as long as we continue to fund their salaries and pensions,nothing is going to happen.All it takes is money,and we can raise taxes anytime we want if we need more money to keep them on our side.