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Belinda DEFECTS!?!?!


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I havn't attacked you for your generalizations, but I have certainly attacked your statements.

I believe you're quoted as calling Belinda either a prostitute or a whore....which one was it?

And this was well before the Liberals had ever made this an issue.

So Reagan, if you didn't call her a whore already, do you think it's alright to refer to any woman as a whore?

I never called her a whore, I called her a "political prostitute". Anyone who is not completely daft realizes that the use of the words "whore" and "prostitute", in this context, refer to one selling themself. Not for sex. She has in fact sold herself to the liberals. It is biting vocabulary, but perfectly describes her actions.

P.S. I'd pick a different hill to die on rather than the hill of quibbling over unintended meanings and useing sophism to attack conservatives. (*whisper*And I don't mean 'hill' literally, just so you know)

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I never called her a whore, I called her a "political prostitute".  Anyone who is not completely daft realizes that the use of the words "whore" and "prostitute", in this context, refer to one selling themself. Not for sex.  She has in fact sold herself to the liberals.  It is biting vocabulary, but perfectly describes her actions.

Except that "political laborer," or "political line chef," or "political cashier" would all convey the meaning of someone selling themself politically. The point is, you didn't use any of those alternatives. You picked the word "prostitute" as a means of derision, with all of the nasty connotation intentional. That the word "prostitute" attached the image of sex to this "bimbo, flake, dipstick, blonde, whore" is exactly why you picked it.

P.S. I'd pick a different hill to die on rather than using unintended meanings and sophism to attack conservatives.  (And I don't mean 'hill' literally, just so you know *wisper*)

P.P.S. Your dream of people letting ignorant fools run their mouths off at length with no one calling them on their BS is a longshot. Just give up on it now.

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Guest eureka

What English Canadians on Ontario hope to see, August, is the Budget passed and its provisions implented. They hope also to see C.48 passed. If these fail, there will be a backlash against the Conservatives. There will also be a less focused one against Quebec.

It is important to Ontarians that the fixes in these Bills are carried out. Quebec stands to lose the traditional sympathy of Ontario for its part in this.

We are in for rough times for the next few years - you are right about that. I hope that what comes out of that will be a hardening of this country against its detractors.

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1)The Liberals denied that they were offering choice positions to get Conservative MPs to join them. Now we have the evidence of yet another lie.

2) How pissed do you think some of the other Liberal MPs are that an outsider was given a cabinet post on the spot right after crossing the floor, while they showed their loyalty year after year without reward?

There are probably a number of Liberal MPs who want to distance themselves from the corrupt Liberal party as it is, this can only reinforce that. I would not be surprised to see some Liberals cross over to the Conservatives.

3) How pissed do you think the people who voted Conservative in her riding are that you basically took thewir vote away from them? The people in Newmarket voted Conservative, now she is making them take Liberal instead. I predict this will backfire on her. If she finds herself without a seat after the next election, she'll have no-one but herself to blame.

4) She tried to "moderate" the party? What part of the word "Conservative" did she have trouble with? We had two liberal parties before when the PCs were around. What Canada needs is an unapologetic Conservatlve party. The CPC is already far too moderate as far as I'm concerned, they certainly do not need to water things down.

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Alright, you said political prostitute.

So -- is it wrong to call her a whore?

Ya it's probably not the classiest word to use. But tell me this, is it wrong to betray your supporters by jumping ship, especially when taken in the context of a system where people, more often than not, are voting for the party rather than the individual and at a time when one vote in that party is crucial. And I would note that it wasn't just people in her own riding that supported her both fiscally and emotionally. Many people across the country campaigned for her and fought for on the basis of being a Conservative. And tell me how and why some petty name calling from a few no-name Conservatives is bigger news than her actual defection?

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Guest eureka

I doubt that you people will ever get it. Canada should have a Conservative party as an alternative to the Liberals. It should, however, be a party of conservatives not radical Western populists.

You can take your unthinking radicalism and bury ut in the Tar Sands.

Frankly, I have to qyustion whether the emissions from the oil production facilities have done permanent damage to Western brains. The utter stupidity that passes for political interest is overwhelming - or should that be underwhelming.

The silliness of defining whatever goes over the feeble heads of the radicals as arrogance is almost funny. Arrogance is the the unshakeable belief that the "Conservative" hold that the truth has been revealed to them and that all who do not follow are infidels and apostates.

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McKay did what he did for the sake of the party, not for personal gain.

Sure he did. That's what he says. Then he ran for leadership of that party - had he won and had the party won he would have been Prime Minister. No personal gain though, right?

Stronach says she did it for the COUNTRY (bigger than a party), not for personal gain. She says that partisanship is destroying the country. She knows that there is a real danger that: 1) her constituents won't vote her back in because of her actions, 2) that the Cons could win and she would be a backbencher opposition member, 3) that she would be reviled like no man ever has been crossing the floor. Now where is the personal gain in that.

What makes McKay credible in what he says after he went and completely reneged on a promise that gave him the position that would allow him to be a true Judas?

Why is McKay credible with anybody after what he did?

All Belinda Stronach did was to follow her ideologies and she gets tarred with a tremendously more critical brush that McKay.

And McKay talks about Stronach's ethics. How droll!

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Frankly, I have to qyustion whether the emissions from the oil production facilities have done permanent damage to Western brains.

You know, virtually everyone I know that has gone to work the rigs has come back a little slower and a little madder. I couldn't really comment on whether that is a result of the emissions or the (very real) problem of alchol and drug abuse up there, though.

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I doubt that you people will ever get it.

How many posts can you make, claiming you're the bearer of arcane knowledge?

Oh, excuse me...not arcane knowledge -- simplistic views that everyone else is too stupid to grasp.

I don't know whether your "I'm smarter than you" gimmick is funny or sad.

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What is sad is that you don't get it. It is so obvious (not at all arcane), but you don't get it.

What exactly do I not get? I didn't read the entire conversation, I just saw your pompous post and thought I'd point out that I get a chuckle at your gimmick.

The problem is we out West haven't yet learned our place. You see we need to learn who our rightful superiors are. We are here to serve them you see.

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I didn't see that IMR, but I did see a couple of MPs awkwardly try to fend off questions about their comments.

I can see where the comments came from, sort of.

It's just the language used was out there.

In the last 24 hours, I've gone over some of the comments made by CPC MPs, but instead of using some of their words, I substituted offensive, graphic and offensive language with equally strong civil(?) language, and it was better.

And it wouldn't have given the perception of intollerance and sexist attitudes.

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Hey does anyone have a link to any of Belinda's quotes during her extensive 11 month tenure as a Conservative? I'd like to read some of her hypocritical statements about the Liberals, Martin etc. I've heard tid bits on the radio like about her critisizing Scott Bryson for not "rolling up his sleeves and sticking with the party". I've heard some as recently as the past couple of weeks where she has critisized Martin.

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Guest eureka

What you don't get is that these "Conservatives" are not conservatives. They are the farthest thing from it that the country has ever seen. They are radical populists and radicals in the worst sense in that they wish to tear all the national institutions down - root them out, as radical means.

They would replace them with nothing but the jungle of a free for all between Provinces and peoples.

We do need a Conservative party, as I said. We haven't had one since Diefenbaker and since Stanfield was shunted aside.

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And tell me how and why some petty name calling from a few no-name Conservatives is bigger news than her actual defection?

That petty name calling cost the Conservatives MANY votes amongst the people you guys needed the most: Ontario women.

The Centre-Left of this country (NDP + Lib) is up over 55%.

The Centre-Left+Green is up over 60%

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McKay did what he did for the sake of the party, not for personal gain. And McKay isn't known as a little rich boy whose daddy gave him everything in life, including his job.

Backstabbing is backstabbing. McKay made a pledge that he would not merge the PC's with the CA. And then he did. It was a slimeball move.

As for the latter comment, since when are conservatives oppossed to unearned privilege?

Oh yes, I see it. If only the Tories had elected someone wise and honest and thoughtful and charismatic and well-spoken like oh, Jean Chretien, say.

"I have da guy in my cabinet he look like a Chinese too!"

I'm sure the Chinese were real impressed with that one. Not to mention the Africans when he said he liked Black people because of their "big white smiles".

Citation?

True. But she was someone whose daddy gave her everything in life, who had nothing, including an education, to support her contention for leader of one of Canada's two main parties. She was pretty, and that was basically it. She was not well-spoken, nor well-read. During her early forays with the media during her run at the Tory leadership she was embarrassingly out to lunch on major issues of the day - hadn't a clue.

No one's disputing Stronach's lack of qualifications. I'm simply saying sghe has been the subject to the kind of treatment a male politico in a similar situation wouldn't encounter.

Those words are clearly not mine. They are Christie Blatchford's. A woman! I suggest you go over and get a subscription to read the rest of her column.

BTW, the way, you'll also get to read Margaret Wente's column which is just as scathing - in a similar "sexist" way.

Simply possessing a vagina doesn't make one instantly qualified to comment on sexism. Both Wente and Blatchford have amde carers out of apologizing for power, so I'm not surprised by their reactions.

Belinda is no Margaret Thatcher, no Indira Gandhi, no Golda Meir, no Condoleeza Rice. Heck, she's not even a Hillary Rodham.

I shudder to think that the only female politicians of note you cite include the demonstratably vile Thatcher, Meir and Rice (not to mention the right-wing's favorite punching bag Clinton).

The point is, you didn't use any of those alternatives. You picked the word "prostitute" as a means of derision, with all of the nasty connotation intentional. That the word "prostitute" attached the image of sex to this "bimbo, flake, dipstick, blonde, whore" is exactly why you picked it.

Word.

4) She tried to "moderate" the party? What part of the word "Conservative" did she have trouble with? We had two liberal parties before when the PCs were around. What Canada needs is an unapologetic Conservatlve party. The CPC is already far too moderate as far as I'm concerned, they certainly do not need to water things down.

I agree. So far their moderation has led them to the brink of power. I would love to see the Cons immoderate themselves right out of existence.

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I doubt that you people will ever get it. Canada should have a Conservative party as an alternative to the Liberals. It should, however, be a party of conservatives not radical Western populists.

What this means is it should be a liberal party calling itself Conservative. It's all right to have a party with that name so long as it has no actual conservative or traditional beliefs.

Frankly, I have to qyustion whether the emissions from the oil production facilities have done permanent damage to Western brains. The utter stupidity that passes for political interest is overwhelming - or should that be underwhelming.
That people have different political beliefs and opinions than you isn't due to toxic emissions, but wisdom, judgement and intelligence, none of which have ever been associated with your postings on this web site. :P
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McKay did what he did for the sake of the party, not for personal gain.

Sure he did. That's what he says.

It is indisputable that the PCs were going nowhere, except into bankruptcyf, and that in the very near future. The party was going to be dead within a year. He had no choice whatever but to mend fences with the Alliance/Reform.
Stronach says she did it for the COUNTRY (bigger than a party), not for personal gain.

Drivel.

She says that partisanship is destroying the country.

And somehow her betraying her party and those people who voted for her is going to do something to tone down partisanship?

She knows that there is a real danger that:  1) her constituents won't vote her back in because of her actions, 2) that the Cons could win and she would be a backbencher opposition member,
No danger of the latter. If Stronach's Liberals lose the next electioni she will quit - unless it is a shaky minority where she thinks she has a real chance of getting the limo back soon. Stronach decided that it was boring to be an ordinary MP (true), and she wanted to be a high roller. She was willing to take the chance the Liberals might fail, at least temporarily. THe odds are in her favour, given the last half century of largely Liberal rule.

One more incompetent lightweight in cabinet to back up Mr. Dithers.

Even without the corruption, kickbacks and racketteering this government is on wobbly legs.

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And tell me how and why some petty name calling from a few no-name Conservatives is bigger news than her actual defection?

That petty name calling cost the Conservatives MANY votes amongst the people you guys needed the most: Ontario women.

Bullshit.

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