Jump to content

What the Tories need to do


Recommended Posts

After the Mulroney conservatives; you should consider yourself lucky to get anyone voted in as a conservative.

The Liberals got the edge in the last election because of Harper's desire to join the USA in Iraq plus his wish to dismantle our health care system,

Please show evidence that Harper wanted to diismantle the health care system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 73
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

But then deception is what Liberals are all about.

You make me laugh you really do.

Liberals appointed the Gomery Commission.

Liberals brought in the Access to Information Act.

Your party in it's attempt to decieve changed names and merged!!

So just who is into decieving people here?

QUESTION: How many seats do you think your party would win if they had of kept the REFORM name?

God some people are narrow minded! :angry:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every time the idea of changes to the Canada Health Act comes up, people start throwing around phrases like "two-tier" and "US-style." Why is that?

Because it's true. You want an insurance company running your healthcare like the U.S.A.?

Well that is exactly what you'll end up getting!

Again, for the benefit of the slow-witted, I'll mention that "Canadian" and "US-style" are not the only two healthcare systems out there.

There are better healthcare systems out there, like those in France and Sweden, where public and private work together.

-kimmy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest eureka

Public and private do not work together in those systems any more than they do here: it is a matter of what is public and what is private.

Those systems are essentially public systems as is ours with some private deliverery where it is practical without "two-tier" delivery or cost and access differentials

And, Harper is determined to undermine public health care. I have, on several threads, pointed ro the Reform Party Caucus Statement written by Harper. His plan to privatize health; put it under provincial control; bring in means tested access for the poor AND middle class; and to remove the federal presence entirely, is all spelled out.

But no one wants to be reminded!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Conservatives must certainly make a clear and detailed and very specific proposal of what they wish to do with the healthcare system, to combat this sort of scare-tactic.

-kimmy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every time the idea of changes to the Canada Health Act comes up, people start throwing around phrases like "two-tier" and "US-style." Why is that? Why do Canadians, who fancy themselves to be so much more knowledgeable of the wider world than their American friends, seem to have the notion that if it's not "Canada-style" healthcare, it must be "US-style" healthcare?

I couldn't have said it better, there are other semi privatized or privatized systems that are much more efficient than ours, ie sweden, and japan. Privitization (in Canadian context) does not mean US style healthcare! To win a election the conservatives will definitly have to lay out a VERY clear plan on healthcare, a plan that the other parties will have a very difficult time twisting to make it sound as though we will end up with US style health care.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I couldn't have said it better, there are other semi privatized or privatized systems that are much more efficient than ours, ie sweden, and japan.

Care to back that up? For-profit healh care is not only less effective and more costly on its own, but also increases the overall costs to the system.

The High Cost of For-Profit Care

The evidence from all of the OECD countries shows that publicly funded and administered medical care is cheaper than a mixed public-private system, provided the former is sufficiently funded.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The evidence from all of the OECD countries shows that publicly funded and administered medical care is cheaper than a mixed public-private system, provided the former is sufficiently funded.

At this link there is evidence to the contrary. http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readm...?sNav=pb&id=658

I'm sure you will note that this is a report from the fraser institute, a institution that liberals always argue is right leaning, this may or may not be true. But through their long history their investigations have been proven correct many times over (even when popular prevailing though would have them be wrong) , due to this they have gained a great deal of respect from across the country, bearing this in mind their report cannot simply be shrugged off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every time the idea of changes to the Canada Health Act comes up, people start throwing around phrases like "two-tier" and "US-style." Why is that?

Because it's true. You want an insurance company running your healthcare like the U.S.A.?

Well that is exactly what you'll end up getting!

Tired old Liberal propaganda.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But then deception is what Liberals are all about.

You make me laugh you really do.

Liberals appointed the Gomery Commission.

Unwillingly.
Liberals brought in the Access to Information Act.
Oh yeah, and brought us "ethics concillors" like Howard Wilson. And they've been doing everything they can to hide information.
So just who is into decieving people here?
Very clearly - you.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I couldn't have said it better, there are other semi privatized or privatized systems that are much more efficient than ours, ie sweden, and japan.

Care to back that up? For-profit healh care is not only less effective and more costly on its own, but also increases the overall costs to the system.

And yet, oddly, despite paying as much as or more than almost any other nation, our health care has enormous waiting lists and inefficiencies many mixed European systems seem to avoid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest eureka

Canada does not pay as much as or more than almost any other nation.

The two highest ratedsystems in the developed world are Switzerland , which spends about 13% of GDP, and France, which spends about 6% of GDP. Switzerland is mostly private in health care and France mostly public.

The US which spends about the same proportion as Swirzerland and is almost entirely private in delivery of services, is ranked 37th. in overall quality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

CRIME

Always a hot button issue. ... do away with parole except for demonstrated cases of remorse and rehabilitation. ... minimum sentences for illegal firearm posession and knife and firearms violence, ... funds for police to support strike teams to arrest gun dealers, smugglers and gang members. ... reforming the young offenders act to crack down hard on early offenders and ship them to work farms ... They need to put enough money into the system to speed up trials,...

It's odd that you strt your list with crime. As you say it's 'hot button' issue but I will add: for the Right. Fortunatly, most Canadians don't fall for the idea that crime is a major issue nor that the solutions is to just swing a bigger hammer. Most of the measures you suggested are impractical or counter-productive, and appeal to a desire to project a visceral toughness rather than prevent crime.

On the other hand, your health suggestions might have substantial merit, especially as a Tory PR strategy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1) Get rid of social conservatism...

and finally

5) Get rid of social conservatism

...

The thing about people with no morality is that they believe everyone is like them.

Well, there in a nutshell is exactly why the CPC can never be permitted to be the government. It's the self-righteous mindset. If you say people have "no morals" simply because they have different views than yours, they are going to recognize you as a dangerous extremist.

You want the tories to abandon their beliefs

This IS a discussion of what it would take to get elected. Dropping unproductive attitudes is one basic requirement.

... most conservatives want power in order to accomplish something.

Indeed. And most Canadian voters don't want those 'accomplisments'. There seems to be a reality-gap in the CPC ... they want somehow to get elected in spite of the voters' not wanting what they're selling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Conservatives must certainly make a clear and detailed and very specific proposal of what they wish to do with the healthcare system, to combat this sort of scare-tactic.

-kimmy

Obviously true. So the question is why have they not done so already? Two possible answers:

1. The policy they want IS in fact a privatized fend-for-yourself system.

or

2. A viable program is extremely difficult to devise. Rhetoric aside, there is no easy answer.

Either way, the Tory bastards have a major credibility gap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At this link there is evidence to the contrary. http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readm...?sNav=pb&id=658

I'm sure you will note that this is a report from the fraser institute, a institution that liberals always argue is right leaning, this may or may not be true.

:lol:

Let's be clear about one thing... Fraser Institute reports do no constitute 'evidence' of anything about the world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, there in a nutshell is exactly why the CPC can never be permitted to be the government. It's the self-righteous mindset. If you say people have "no morals" simply because they have different views than yours, they are going to recognize you as a dangerous extremist.

For the life of me: I can't figure out how the Conservatives think they have better morals than those in the center or the left. Is it immoral to want to give people down on their luck a hand up or to ensure all Canadians, rich or poor, will have medical help available and affordable????? Why is it immoral to want to allow gay people the same rights / and problems that we enjoy/endure. Re: abortion; Do we want to go back to the days where desperate young girls must seek out back street abortionists where they may die or be unable to have children forever. Or young mothers who are unable to financially care for their children. I agree; that having the child and offering the child up for adoption is a better answer but not always acceptable to many.

I guess being more compassionate and caring about others is considered immoral by the money hungry right wing crowd. That their preference for alcohol (a few outed alcoholic right wing leaders (no names mentioned) over marijuana. Marijuana when used and not abused is a viable safer alternative to prescription drugs with their more serious side effects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To get back on topic here,

To get elected, the tories need to fully explain two key topics in their platform: healthcare and foreign policy. As long as they produce plausible elements in these key areas, the ONLY reason they would not be elected after 12 years of Liberal shenanigans, is ignorant voters who do not like Stephen Harper. Why people can't understand that one man cannot make policy on his own in Canada is still a mystery to me.

What is needed next time around is a Tory minority gov with the Bloc holding the balance of power. If that is the situation, it would be impossible for the tories to privatize healthcare, or send what's left of our army off to an unjust war.

As a side note to anyone who believes private healthcare is a good thing, I suggest you read the book "Not For Profit".

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?Ite...on=books&zxac=1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear caesar,

For the life of me: I can't figure out how the Conservatives think they have better morals than those in the center or the left
Many of those 'on the right' claim to be 'devout christians', and adhere to the 'eye for an eye' philosphy of justice (akin to Islamic fundamentalists, I might add), while championing the 'everyman for himself' attitude of free enterprise. They seem to have a "Church on Sunday, but Business on Monday" mentality. One cannot serve both God and Mammon.

What the conservatives need to do first and foremost is 'unite the right', and mend the damage to the old PC party. There is far too much vote-splitting going on amongst the right wing parties in the west for any one of them to gain ground.

Secondly, they need to realize that the majority of Canadians ARE left of centre, and if they come out too far to the right, they will marginalize no one but themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ignorant voters who do not like Stephen Harper. Why people can't understand that one man cannot make policy on his own in Canada is still a mystery to me.

You mean informed voters who do not like Stephen Harper nor his party"s ideas on international relations, healthcare or other issues. The Prime Minister does have much more power within Canada than does the president of the USA; perhaps too much power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Secondly, they need to realize that the majority of Canadians ARE left of centre, and if they come out too far to the right, they will marginalize no one but themselves.

Well at least get a little closer to the center. Joe Clark type Conservatives might have actually gotten a Conservative victory. Harper and cronies are way too far right for reasonable working people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure you will note that this is a report from the fraser institute, a institution that liberals always argue is right leaning, this may or may not be true.

No, it's actually very true. They pretty much say as much:

The Fraser Institute focuses on the role competitive markets play in providing for the economic and social well-being of all Canadians and as an international forum for policy ideas.
But through their long history their investigations have been proven correct many times over (even when popular prevailing though would have them be wrong) , due to this they have gained a great deal of respect from across the country, bearing this in mind their report cannot simply be shrugged off.

Can you give us some examples?

In any case, I've got some examples of how the Fraser Institute has used data very selectively to prove their preordained conclusion that mor eprivate health care is better. Unfortunately I don't have it at my figertips, but will try to get it within the week.

And yet, oddly, despite paying as much as or more than almost any other nation, our health care has enormous waiting lists and inefficiencies many mixed European systems seem to avoid.

Yes, very odd, given the expanded role of private health care service providers in the system. It's weird: as the public system was slashed over the past two decades, the private componen of the system grew. Yet waiting times and costs have proliferated. Now if an increased for-profit prescence was the magic bullet, wouldn't waiting times decrease?

Interestingly enough, mixed private/public systems like the UK don't have any appreciable impact on waiting lists.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You mean informed voters who do not like Stephen Harper nor his party"s ideas on international relations, healthcare or other issues

Which was why I put in the misnomer that his platform must include plausible elements for these issues. I do not personally like Stephen Harper, but I believe it is time for a change, as the Liberals have been screwing us for long enough and seem to think that they are untouchable.

The Prime Minister does have much more power within Canada than does the president of the USA; perhaps too much power.

???????

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Tell a friend

    Love Repolitics.com - Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      10,714
    • Most Online
      1,403

    Newest Member
    wopsas
    Joined
  • Recent Achievements

    • Venandi went up a rank
      Explorer
    • Jeary earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Venandi went up a rank
      Apprentice
    • Gaétan earned a badge
      Very Popular
    • Dictatords earned a badge
      First Post
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...