Grantler Posted February 17, 2005 Report Posted February 17, 2005 Well I have to admit that I love this forum. I am not sure how many students are here though and it is really strange but they are starting to form some pretty decent opinions. I have to admit that I will be posting on this site very regularly as I can already tell that thoughts expressed by members of this site are incredible. Both sides to issues are argued well and with justification. Anyway, as you can see in my signature a group of us students from the University of Western Ontario is trying to get politically minded people in order to guage political culture etc for Canadians. We have gathered a group of students and are looking to talk to adults and other politcally minded people over at the link in my signature. If anyone is supportive of getting students talking and discussing issues on a scale as great at this website it would be great. Maybe then it would be possible for this website to think about making a forum that allows students to come and talk with each other? Anyway, what are your thoughts on youth beliefs and issues? It would be nice to see what you think we think!! Quote
Grantler Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Posted February 17, 2005 I guess I will start this one off. One thing I have found with students is their ability to form opinions on scarce information. What I see is a fragment of the population that adopts ultra-liberal tendencies without first thinking of the results of such policy. I am a Liberal, in the big L sense of the term, but to start mixing in all sorts of small l liberal desires in a nation-state such as Canada becomes scary. We need more students in two sided discussion that have their eyes open by quality argument. Quote
August1991 Posted February 17, 2005 Report Posted February 17, 2005 One thing I have found with students is their ability to form opinions on scarce information.I have noticed the same among people who are not students.Sorry to be flippant. Your post is welcome. Now, how is a big-L different from a little-l? Quote
Grantler Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Posted February 17, 2005 "All liberals agree on the primacy of individual freedom and individual choice, which distinguishes liberalism from, for example, socialism and nationalism. But some liberals argue in favour of these core values by means of highly abstract reasoning." Big L liberal: I would define this as the political nature of the word. Liberalism is something that the political party in Canada should hope to achieve...a balance between social programs and fiscal respinsibility etc. Small l liberal: This is more along the lines of the early political philosophy. The idea of passing individual freedoms to all is an amazing thought. But, when does this become a farce? Take my American Warfare class at UWO. We discuss American Wars and then 90% of the students and the prof take pot shots at the current regime and all of America's "terrible" actions over the past that restricted freedom. Is it really necessary to hate America based on how they view liberalism since it is obviously not as "liberal" as ours? Quote
Grantler Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Posted February 17, 2005 Furthmore, is my generation out of touch with reality because we are so protected in thinking whatever we want? ie. America is a terrible monster that we need to have nothing to do with? I think that this is the most prevalent thought among youth. Unfortunetly, it is not that simple and in my opinion, totally rediculous. Quote
I miss Reagan Posted February 17, 2005 Report Posted February 17, 2005 Good topic Grantler. Like August said in another thread: To wit, Maoism longer exists. Trotskyism also. Marxist-Leninism has basically disappeared. The only places these ideas exist anymore is in western university faculties and on Internet forums. I think the radical left has found a home in our universities. Understandibly they have an idealistic audience ready and willing to believe what ever they are told. Youth full of zeal starting to learn some of the awful realities of life, willingly embrace the simplistic solutions fed to them by their profs. What's that Churchill quote? Something like anyone under 30 who isn't a liberal doesn't have a heart, anyone over 30 who is still a liberal doesn't have a brain. You should check out this film online it's prett interesting: Campus Bias Quote "Liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to offer therapy and understanding for our attackers. Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war." -Karl Rove
Newfie Canadian Posted February 17, 2005 Report Posted February 17, 2005 Speaking on issues fosters debate, and debate is almost always good, especially on important issues concerning society. Quote "If you don't believe your country should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by livin' someplace else." Stompin' Tom Connors
Grantler Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Posted February 17, 2005 I totally agree. Its too bad that professors tend to limit debate to their own beliefs in school. That is why I am trying to get my board going for young and old alike. I think that a part on this board would be worthwhile if we could get enough students in. You would be surprised at the thoughts they have. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 17, 2005 Report Posted February 17, 2005 Yes, Newfie. In fact our western democracy was built on the idea that people would debate openly to come up with the best compromises. But our consumer society caters to people, and allows them to insulate themselves and surround themselves with their own kind. These forums are a great leap forward in terms of forcing people to face the reality that there are other people identical to them, except for their political leanings. full of zeal starting to learn some of the awful realities of life, willingly embrace the simplistic solutions fed to them by ...FOX news ? It's not a question of right or left, its a question of polarization, balkanization, isolationism by both sides. People wear their politics like fashion today. Quote  Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
I miss Reagan Posted February 17, 2005 Report Posted February 17, 2005 It's not a question of right or left, its a question of polarization, balkanization, isolationism by both sides. Hi Michael, Couldn't agree more. I think the polarization is the result of a backlash against the subtle bias in the news and on campus. The radical fringe groups from both sides are polarizing everyone else. From Michael Moore to Michael Savage. Ah I miss the days of Reagan Democrats. Quote "Liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to offer therapy and understanding for our attackers. Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war." -Karl Rove
Tawasakm Posted February 17, 2005 Report Posted February 17, 2005 What you call 'liberalism' in students could, perhaps, be more correctly termed as 'idealism'. To my mind most students are idealistic and want to see a 'better world' - no doubt full of love, tolerance and understanding. Liberal views would naturally be influential. It is also my exeperience, however, that as students progress through their courses (therefore gaining an increasing knowledge base) alot of students become more pragmatic as their idealism 'compromises' with their increasing knowledge of 'reality'. I don't see many third year students who are unthinkingly liberal (except perhaps for arts students) but rather I see a group of people who are amassing large amounts of theoretical information and are attempting to fit/apply it practically. That idealism has its place and hopefully leads people in the right direction to becoming the best people they can be - no matter the political ideology they settle on. Also that idealism often leads to critical analysis of the way the world is which is by no means a bad enterprise. Quote
Tawasakm Posted February 17, 2005 Report Posted February 17, 2005 Don't take this the wrong way - but that 'ultra liberalism' amongst students may also be the last stages of adolescence. Most teenagers rebel against authority and against their parents telling them what to think. And there are people at university telling them they were right to 'stick it the man' and those in authority shouldn't be. It probably adds to the lure. Also, I don't know about you, but I was alot more emotional as a teen. Definitely more likely to act on my passions. Quote
Guest eureka Posted February 17, 2005 Report Posted February 17, 2005 It is good to hear that radical ideas are still alive and well on Campus. Apart from the new "Conservatives" they are not audible on the outside, and that faith is one without an intellectual component. I was under the impression that universities no longer encouraged thought. The world will never reach a stage where questioning and the search for a better way will no longer be necessary. Quote
I miss Reagan Posted February 17, 2005 Report Posted February 17, 2005 I agree with Tawasakm. The problem is when profs like Ward Churchill and Noam Chomsky take advantage of this idealism and enthusiasm to further their own agendas. Not only is it an unhealthy teaching environment but the backlash isn't healthy either. In Ohio they are talking about legislating bias in college, which IMO, sets a dangerous precedent. Banning Bias Quote "Liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to offer therapy and understanding for our attackers. Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war." -Karl Rove
Newfie Canadian Posted February 17, 2005 Report Posted February 17, 2005 (edited) In Ohio they are talking about legislating bias in college, which IMO, sets a dangerous precident. Just another stop on the slippery slope. I agree with Tawasakm. The problem is when profs like Ward Churchilland Noam Chomsky take advantage of this idealism enthusiasm to further their own agendas. It is unfortunate. EDIT-Which adds to the importance and necessity of asking questions. Edited February 17, 2005 by Newfie Canadian Quote "If you don't believe your country should come before yourself, you can better serve your country by livin' someplace else." Stompin' Tom Connors
The Terrible Sweal Posted February 21, 2005 Report Posted February 21, 2005 In fact our western democracy was built on the idea that people would debate openly to come up with the best compromises. I think there is a subtle, but profound problem with this characterisation, Michael. The point is not to find the best "compromises", it is to find the best choices. There are times (many, many times) when the best choice is decidedly not to compromise. Digression: Perhaps this is an essential distinction between 'classical liberal' (e.g. Winston Churchill) and 'modern liberal' (e.g. Jimmy Carter). Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.