Would Canada want America destroyed?

[taxme]

On 9/28/2018 at 10:22 PM, paulagnes1745 said:

But Canuckland hates them, does it not?

Only the leftist liberals in Canada hate America. I am dam glad to have a neighbor like America next door to me. Better than having Mexico or India or China as a neighbor. Besides they have the nice warm places to go in winter like Arizona, California and Florida. They also have exciting other places to go to like New York city, two Disneylands and Las Vegas for our enjoyment and pleasure for all. There are no exciting cities to want to visit in Canada. Just cities and maybe the countryside or the mountains in Whistler. America can consider me a friend and not an enemy. 

[taxme]

1 hour ago, bigdro said:

But you can move there anyways.

He probably thinks that Canada needs to own Florida to be able go live there in the winter time. Shocking. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by taxme

[taxme]

5 hours ago, cannuck said:

NO joke.   Entertainment is the largest export earner for the USA, and we are eager consumers.

But here in Canada we have the CBC for entertainment.  Who needs that American entertainment stuff. Chuckle-chuckle. 

[Zeitgeist]

15 hours ago, taxme said:

Only the leftist liberals in Canada hate America. I am dam glad to have a neighbor like America next door to me. Better than having Mexico or India or China as a neighbor. Besides they have the nice warm places to go in winter like Arizona, California and Florida. They also have exciting other places to go to like New York city, two Disneylands and Las Vegas for our enjoyment and pleasure for all. There are no exciting cities to want to visit in Canada. Just cities and maybe the countryside or the mountains in Whistler. America can consider me a friend and not an enemy. 

Where are you really from?

[Argus]

19 hours ago, bigdro said:

But you can move there anyways.

Not full time. And if I did I'd need to buy health insurance.

[paxamericana]

48 minutes ago, Argus said:

Not full time. And if I did I'd need to buy health insurance.

Which part is less desirable? Reapplying for the visa or paying for your own healthcare? 

[Argus]

2 hours ago, paxamericana said:

Which part is less desirable? Reapplying for the visa or paying for your own healthcare? 

You can't 're-apply' for a visa. Canadians don't even need visas. But you can't stay in the US for more than 8 months out of 12. That means you need to maintain a home in Canada, too.

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

You can't 're-apply' for a visa. Canadians don't even need visas. But you can't stay in the US for more than 8 months out of 12. That means you need to maintain a home in Canada, too.

This is why some kind of loose union would be nice.  There's also a limit on the amount of time Americans can stay in Canada in a year.  I think we're at a point in our histories where we should be able to live and work anywhere in each other's countries, respecting the laws of the land, paying local taxes, etc.  It just spells more freedom and opportunity for both peoples and would improve relations.  

[bush_cheney2004]

33 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

This is why some kind of loose union would be nice.  There's also a limit on the amount of time Americans can stay in Canada in a year.  I think we're at a point in our histories where we should be able to live and work anywhere in each other's countries, respecting the laws of the land, paying local taxes, etc.  It just spells more freedom and opportunity for both peoples and would improve relations.  

 

Sure....lots more opportunity for Canadians going south than Americans going north, but that's how it has always been. 

No union...thank you very much.

[JamesHackerMP]

what kind of "loose union???

[Zeitgeist]

29 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Sure....lots more opportunity for Canadians going south than Americans going north, but that's how it has always been. 

No union...thank you very much.

Ha ha, there may come a time when you'll be begging to escape to a safe haven.  One thing's for sure, your 2nd amendment NEVER comes north.  Our border says up.  Keep your firearms at home.

[Zeitgeist]

28 minutes ago, JamesHackerMP said:

what kind of "loose union???

We keep almost everything status quo: our own food and drug policies, immigration, federal and provincial governments, etc.  The only changes are that Americans and Canadians can live and work anywhere in each other's countries.  The clear advantage for Americans is that they get access to one of the safest countries on Earth with one of the highest quality of life ratings.  They also get the opportunity to invest, build businesses, and buy property without any of the barriers foreign nationals face, even under current NAFTA and future USMCA.  Canadians get the same rights in the U.S..  Essentially Americans get access to land and security, as well as much of the social safety net Canadians enjoy, except for citizenship (and therefore voting rights), unless they apply for it according to the usual immigration laws.  Same goes for Canadians in the U.S..  The advantage for Canadians is more employment opportunities, but Americans would also benefit from business opportunity in Canada, in a country with massive growth potential. 

Cities like Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto are consistently rated near the top of the "Best places to live and work" in the world.  We're safe and have a far less polarized, more harmonious society.  What Canada lacks is scale, though it has come to cities like Toronto and Montreal.  It would be an experience for Canadians to be able to live and work in places like New York City.  It would be an experience for Americans to have the security of property and high quality of life in cities like Vancouver.  The only concerns on the Canadian end are that we don't want guns and violence migrating north.  Also, our health care system could not handle a massive influx of health care refugees, so it only works if either some form of Obamacare is retained in the U.S. or Americans who live and work in Canada buy their own private insurance.  Canadians wouldn't have an issue with Americans accessing our universal health care, but it would have to be reciprocal for Canadians in the U.S.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

  ...Essentially Americans get access to land and security, as well as much of the social safety net Canadians enjoy, except for citizenship (and therefore voting rights), unless they apply for it according to the usual immigration laws.  Same goes for Canadians in the U.S..  The advantage for Canadians is more employment opportunities, but Americans would also benefit from business opportunity in Canada, in a country with massive growth potential.

 

So in other words...Americans would get access to the potentional for great opportunities in Canada, while Canadians would get access to robust opportunities that already exist in a much larger market and have existed for decades.  

No wonder more Canadians have emigrated or traveled to the USA than Americans emigrating/going to Canada.

Edited October 27, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

So in other words...Americans would get access to the potentional for great opportunities in Canada, while Canadians would get access to robust opportunities that already exist in a much larger market and have existed for decades.  

No wonder more Canadians have emigrated or traveled to the USA than Americans emigrating/going to Canada.

I really don't give a crap how much better you think America is than everywhere else.  It's an arrogant and ugly attitude, and it's wrong.  No one is fooled and there's much to be concerned about in America as in all countries.  Whatever else happens, my hope for the future is that people can exist in safety and that there is less hatred, fear-mongering, xenophobia, war mongering, and oppression in the world.  I'll leave to the reader to figure out where the best hopes lie...   

Edited October 27, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I really don't give a crap how much better you think America is than everywhere else.  It's an arrogant and ugly attitude, and it's wrong.  No one is fooled and there's much to be concerned about in America as in all countries.  Whatever else happens, my hope for the future is that people can exist in safety and that there is less hatred, fear-mongering, xenophobia, war mongering, and oppression in the world.  I'll leave to the reader to figure out where the best hopes lie...   

 

Don't put words in my mouth....never said that.   If pointing out the past and present CanAm emigration reality is so upsetting, then change the reality.

If your hope is really as you have stated, then all other nations would be included in your "loose union" plan, but you stopped far short of that.

The fact is that more Canadians want access to the United States than Americans want access to Canada, for whatever reason.

 

 

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Don't put words in my mouth....never said that.   If pointing out the past and present CanAm emigration reality is so upsetting, then change the reality.

If your hope is really as you have stated, then all other nations would be included in your "loose union" plan, but you stopped far short of that.

The fact is that more Canadians want access to the United States than Americans want access to Canada, for whatever reason.

 

 

That's your big refrain, but there isn't a big movement.  Show me data to support it.  I do think that barriers should be reduced between all countries, but that's not your team's ideology.  You're all about keeping the movement of jobs out of America to low cost jurisdictions, which is not an issue for Canada, which is a higher cost jurisdiction, as you keep mentioning.  The best way to reduce barriers is through the creation of international rules, which is counter to the American exceptionalism and anti-globalism that you support.  

[paxamericana]

I like the salt in this thread

[bush_cheney2004]

20 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

That's your big refrain, but there isn't a big movement.  Show me data to support it. 

 

Already have....net migration for Canada...historical emigration from Canada to the United States....Canadian TN-1 visa workers in the USA (especially California)....Canadian snowbirds that repeatedly travel south.  

The most significant aspect of this movement that favours the United States is that Canada only has 10% of the U.S. population, but more Canadians than Americans have chosen to cross the border.   Same is true for cross border shopping...twice as many Canadians do this than do Americans.

[Zeitgeist]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Already have....net migration for Canada...historical emigration from Canada to the United States....Canadian TN-1 visa workers in the USA (especially California)....Canadian snowbirds that repeatedly travel south.  

The most significant aspect of this movement that favours the United States is that Canada only has 10% of the U.S. population, but more Canadians than Americans have chosen to cross the border.   Same is true for cross border shopping...twice as many Canadians do this than do Americans.

Fake news.  Show me data.  Snowbirds are a thing.  Cross border shopping, not so much.  Otherwise the differences are insignificant.  Net migration is small.  Two things going for America: better weather and bigger scale.  For Canada: better safety and social conditions.  So why not give citizens on both sides of the boarder the ability to enjoy either experience?  I'm actually advocating for an old position that fewer Canadians support these days as anti-Americanism is at a high these days.  The day may come when we just want to keep the craziness down there at bay.  I enjoy the weather and some of the craziness, but it's always good to know I can come back home.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Fake news.  Show me data.  Snowbirds are a thing.  Cross border shopping, not so much.  Otherwise the differences are insignificant.  Net migration is small.

 

OK...we'll do it the hard way:

For border crossing data....the ratio has been reported as 2:1...Canadians to Americans, backed up by this "data":

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/180612/dq180612d-eng.htm

This includes Canadians traveling to American airports to get cheaper/better access flights.

 

For net migration...big swings and brain drain depending on conditions...U.S. still far lower:

https://knoema.com/atlas/Canada/topics/Demographics/Population/Net-migration-rate

https://knoema.com/atlas/United-States-of-America/topics/Demographics/Population/Net-migration-rate

 

For emigration between the two nations, there is this snapshot:

Quote

According to a report by Statistics Canada about 167,300 Canadian residents moved to the U.S. between 2001 and 2006*. That’s about 33,000 per year. By comparison about 9,000 Americans move to Canada each year, and the U.S. has nine times as many people.

https://slate.com/culture/2012/06/americans-threaten-to-move-to-canada-do-canadians-ever-threaten-to-move-to-the-us.html

 

Snowbirds @ 100,000+ are already well documented in Canadian media and associations trying to preserve Canadian rights while avoiding Canadian winters.

No matter how much you may object or deny, Canadians want access to the United States in far greater numbers than Americans want/need access to Canada.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[cannuck]

11 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

We keep almost everything status quo: our own food and drug policies, immigration, federal and provincial governments, etc.  The only changes are that Americans and Canadians can live and work anywhere in each other's countries.  The clear advantage for Americans is that they get access to one of the safest countries on Earth with one of the highest quality of life ratings.  They also get the opportunity to invest, build businesses, and buy property without any of the barriers foreign nationals face, even under current NAFTA and future USMCA.  Canadians get the same rights in the U.S..  Essentially Americans get access to land and security, as well as much of the social safety net Canadians enjoy, except for citizenship (and therefore voting rights), unless they apply for it according to the usual immigration laws.  Same goes for Canadians in the U.S..  The advantage for Canadians is more employment opportunities, but Americans would also benefit from business opportunity in Canada, in a country with massive growth potential. 

Cities like Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto are consistently rated near the top of the "Best places to live and work" in the world.  We're safe and have a far less polarized, more harmonious society.  What Canada lacks is scale, though it has come to cities like Toronto and Montreal.  It would be an experience for Canadians to be able to live and work in places like New York City.  It would be an experience for Americans to have the security of property and high quality of life in cities like Vancouver.  The only concerns on the Canadian end are that we don't want guns and violence migrating north.  Also, our health care system could not handle a massive influx of health care refugees, so it only works if either some form of Obamacare is retained in the U.S. or Americans who live and work in Canada buy their own private insurance.  Canadians wouldn't have an issue with Americans accessing our universal health care, but it would have to be reciprocal for Canadians in the U.S.

I am old enough to recall my parents (who lived on Niagara peninsula then) travelling, shopping and working freely on both sides of the border, so there is a precedent.  But, in today's world, you have identified the real issue: we would be flooded by sick care refugees - the ones who are NOT adequately covered (and Obamacare is considered a joke by most).   Once the Yanks realize that health care and sick care are a social service, not a business, and people get genuinely universal insurance THEN what you propose is IMHO quite workable (pun intended).

[Zeitgeist]

9 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

OK...we'll do it the hard way:

For border crossing data....the ratio has been reported as 2:1...Canadians to Americans, backed up by this "data":

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/180612/dq180612d-eng.htm

This includes Canadians traveling to American airports to get cheaper/better access flights.

 

For net migration...big swings and brain drain depending on conditions...U.S. still far lower:

https://knoema.com/atlas/Canada/topics/Demographics/Population/Net-migration-rate

https://knoema.com/atlas/United-States-of-America/topics/Demographics/Population/Net-migration-rate

 

For emigration between the two nations, there is this snapshot:

 

Snowbirds @ 100,000+ are already well documented in Canadian media and associations trying to preserve Canadian rights while avoiding Canadian winters.

No matter how much you may object or deny, Canadians want access to the United States in far greater numbers than Americans want/need access to Canada.

 

 

So your data is basically insignificant.  100000 snowbirds is .04 of our population that spends up to eight months down there a year. That’s less than I thought.  People must be scared of Florida disappearing under water.  Brain drain doesn’t exist.  Flights?  Up and down with the currency.  If a $400.00 CDN flight is $300.00 US, the price is the same, and I haven’t paid for the gas in my car or taken the time to drive south.  Fake news!

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

So your data is basically insignificant.  100000 snowbirds is .04 of our population that spends up to eight months down there a year. That’s less than I thought.  People must be scared of Florida disappearing under water.  Brain drain doesn’t exist.  Flights?  Up and down with the currency.  If a $400.00 CDN flight is $300.00 US, the price is the same, and I haven’t paid for the gas in my car or taken the time to drive south.  Fake news!

 

The data is not insignificant to Canadian governments and businesses, because of the lost revenue, skilled labour, and net migration losses.   The U.S. population is an order of magnitude larger, but Canadians still outnumber Americans for border crossings by a large margin...because more Canadians want what the USA has to offer....voting with their feet and pesos.

[taxme]

On 10/26/2018 at 6:58 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Where are you really from?

I am Canadian but not very proud of wanting to call calling myself Canadian these days thanks to both papa and kid Trudeau's who have pretty much destroyed and who are still trying to destroy this once great British/European Western nation called Canada, and in their efforts to try to change the makeup and the culture of the original founders and settlers of Canada. 

So, where are you from?  

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

I am Canadian but not very proud of wanting to call calling myself Canadian these days thanks to both papa and kid Trudeau's who have pretty much destroyed and who are still trying to destroy this once great British/European Western nation called Canada, and in their efforts to try to change the makeup and the culture of the original founders and settlers of Canada. 

So, where are you from?  

Either you’re not Canadian or you don’t really know how what’s going on.  It’s okay.  I was born and raised in Canada.  Still live here, though I also lived for a spell in England and Eastern Europe.  Have Canadian and British citizenship.  I spend some time in the US but less so these days.  Don’t feel that safe down there or like the political climate, though I do like most Americans and that country as a whole.