Dougie93 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: If only Milton Friedman's Hong Kong sold better, that's the model. When it comes to energy though, America should be the model, not Norway. The parts of Norway that should be emulated are where they steal good ideas from the Americans, not Norway's Scandinavian Venezuela model. Well it has been said that oil is both a blessing and a curse, for example Canada likely never progresses because it is able to strip mine resources for export to subsidize its dysfunction, one of the things which made Milton Friedman's Hong Kong so dynamic as compared to backwaters like Canada,was simply necessity, they couldn't afford to be stupid, it's just a big rock with a harbor, trade and finance their only resources. Edited July 8, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Well it has been said that oil is both a blessing and a curse, for example Canada likely never progresses because it is able to strip mine resources for export to subsidize its dysfunction, one of the things which made Milton Friedman's Hong Kong so dynamic as compared to backwaters like Canada,was simply necessity, they couldn't afford to be stupid, it's just a big rock with a harbor, trade and finance their only resources. Indeed, it even has a name, The Dutch Disease. Canada can afford to be stupid, but if they stopped being stupid, it would be all blessing and no curse, alas Canada is not smart enough to realize that. Hong Kong couldn't afford to be stupid, and since they didn't go down that path, they have shown the world the light, unfortunately the world is too busy looking a gift horse in the mouth and rejecting the light. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, Milton Friedman knows. Edited July 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 18 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Energy East wouldn’t run through BC anyway. There won't be any Energy East. Andrew Scheer's energy corridor was dead before he ever voiced it. Through thousands of kilometres of opposition from communities, First Nations, putting lakes, rivers, wetlands at risk? No, we won't be relying on Alberta fossil fuels for energy self sufficiency in Canada. Silly idea at this point in history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 6 hours ago, Dougie93 said: Well it has been said that oil is both a blessing and a curse, for example Canada likely never progresses because it is able to strip mine resources for export to subsidize its dysfunction You have a point there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 20 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Let the Yanks create their own earthquakes and we’ll supply ourselves and world markets, including the Yanks. We have fracking in the BC earthquake zone here too. In fact a fracked gas pipeline & sea terminal is the purpose of the RCMP attack on Wet'suet'en people who are protecting their land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 19 minutes ago, jacee said: We have fracking in the BC earthquake zone here too. In fact a fracked gas pipeline & sea terminal is the purpose of the RCMP attack on Wet'suet'en people who are protecting their land. The other problem is that Canadians are obsessed with government central planning, largely because they have been indoctrinated by the government through the CBC state propaganda arm, but all central planning does is empower the government to further entrench the status quo racist apartheid strip mining regime. Canada cannot move forward, because Canadians simply won't get out of their own way. I would guess that it is a result of the World Wars, because the UK has the same problem, the British Empire mobilized massive bureaucracies to fight the wars, but in the wake those central planners simply declined to demobilize, and they got away with it because, again, state propaganda about what a great job they did in the wars, even though the British were a disaster in both wars and had to be bailed out by the Americans twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted July 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 6 hours ago, jacee said: There won't be any Energy East. Andrew Scheer's energy corridor was dead before he ever voiced it. Through thousands of kilometres of opposition from communities, First Nations, putting lakes, rivers, wetlands at risk? No, we won't be relying on Alberta fossil fuels for energy self sufficiency in Canada. Silly idea at this point in history. Instead be beholden to the Saudis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Instead be beholden to the Saudis. You're not beholden to them for oil, the Saudis have to bring their oil to market or they would be overthrown by their own people when they went broke, the only thing that beholds Canada to the Saudis is arms sales for the Canadian MIC. Edited July 8, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 38 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Instead be beholden to the Saudis. Neither you nor the feds can dictate where provinces get their fossil fuels from. It's a waning industry anyway, certainly not a time for plugging (the already dead) Energy East. The opposition was so strong and so broad they didn't even try putting it through an assessment process. Lol Andrew Scheer is playing to his Alberta base with the silly 'Energy corridor' idea, but it's going nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted July 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 50 minutes ago, jacee said: Neither you nor the feds can dictate where provinces get their fossil fuels from. It's a waning industry anyway, certainly not a time for plugging (the already dead) Energy East. The opposition was so strong and so broad they didn't even try putting it through an assessment process. Lol Andrew Scheer is playing to his Alberta base with the silly 'Energy corridor' idea, but it's going nowhere. I hope Scheer fights for and achieves the energy corridor. Canada needs more independence on energy, military, and policy, so we can chart our own course instead of having to bend to other countries’ foreign policy. That’s been the problem for the left in Canada. They can’t pursue more of a Scandinavian or purely Canadian model because we are compromised by our economic and military dependence on sketchy regimes, including the current US approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: I hope Scheer fights for and achieves the energy corridor. Canada needs more independence on energy, military, and policy, so we can chart our own course instead of having to bend to other countries’ foreign policy. That’s been the problem for the left in Canada. They can’t pursue more of a Scandinavian or purely Canadian model because we are compromised by our economic and military dependence on sketchy regimes, including the current US approach. Canada has been "compromised" by such dependencies regardless of the US "approach", past or present, and this will continue well into the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted July 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: Canada has been "compromised" by such dependencies regardless of the US "approach", past or present, and this will continue well into the future. We’re all compromised. It’s a matter of degree. Canada seems particularly compromised right now, given both international political conditions and domestic ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Just now, Zeitgeist said: We’re all compromised. It’s a matter of degree. Canada seems particularly compromised right now, given both international political conditions and domestic ones. Canada's choice for policies and leadership, going on now for generations. Permanent dependency as a matter of official policy. I always assumed that deep within the bowels of Canadian government there were think tanks and policy schools that had contingencies for an "unreliable" American president and/or abject failure by the PMO on other international "files". But now I am convinced that no such policy depth exists, and certainly no counter actions to implement even if they did. When Canada loses its moorings from the United States, it is set adrift without any equivalent replacement. And all it took to reveal this naked vulnerability was a real estate huckster from Queens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Canada's choice for policies and leadership, going on now for generations. Permanent dependency as a matter of official policy. I always assumed that deep within the bowels of Canadian government there were think tanks and policy schools that had contingencies for an "unreliable" American president and/or abject failure by the PMO on other international "files". But now I am convinced that no such policy depth exists, and certainly no counter actions to implement even if they did. When Canada loses its moorings from the United States, it is set adrift without any equivalent replacement. And all it took to reveal this naked vulnerability was a real estate huckster from Queens. Trump has been quite reliable, Canada has all sorts of tariffs against US products, Trump is reliably giving farcically hypocritical Canada a taste of its own medicine, Trump has reliably saved Canada from itself by driving a wedge between the traitors in Ottawa and their masters in Beijing, Trump has sent Canada some illegal immigrants that the Canadian government beckoned to come to Canada, Trump has been eminently reliable, he's reliably giving Canada everything Canada had coming to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted July 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dougie93 said: Trump has been quite reliable, Canada has all sorts of tariffs against US products, Trump is reliably giving farcically hypocritical Canada a taste of its own medicine, Trump has reliably saved Canada from itself by driving a wedge between the traitors in Ottawa and their masters in Beijing, Trump has sent Canada some illegal immigrants that the Canadian government beckoned to come to Canada, Trump has been eminently reliable, he's reliably giving Canada everything Canada had coming to it. Trump is a wannabe quasi-fascist who uses merchantilist bullying trade practices with allies and communist subsidies for farmers to offset failed tariffs. He’s also a big borrower, in business and government. His intolerance towards desperate migrants and refugees is mean-spirited. He is not an admirable man. Edited July 8, 2019 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Trump is a wannabe quasi-fascist who uses merchantilist bullying trade practices with allies and communist subsidies for farmers to offset failed tariffs. He’s also a big borrower, in business and government. His intolerance towards desperate migrants and refugees is mean-spirited. He is not an admirable man. So ? Why does he have such an impact on your world ? Does he impact your property in Florida ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Trump is a wannabe quasi-fascist who uses merchantilist bullying trade practices with allies and communist subsidies for farmers to offset failed tariffs. He’s also a big borrower, in business and government. His intolerance towards desperate migrants and refugees is mean-spirited. He is not an admirable man. Fascists may see some means to an end in Trump but Trump is not a fascist, not even quasi, he's a New York liberal who just found a path to the White House by way of the disgruntled GOP base and the equally disgruntled formerly Democrat industrial working class voters left behind by the Information Age. Trump can't borrow much more in America because he's already ripped Wall Street off for $300 million, hence why he courts Russian Oligarchs instead. The electorate is increasingly intolerant of migrants, Trump is simply being democratic by responding to that. I don't admire him, but I do see him as a means to an end, he's useful, which is more important than admirable. In terms of mean spirited, I'm far meaner than Trump so I'm in no position to sit in judgement of him for that, and I honestly have an affinity for other mean spirited people, I have no time for sob stories. Edited July 8, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted July 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 3 hours ago, Dougie93 said: Fascists may see some means to an end in Trump but Trump is not a fascist, not even quasi, he's a New York liberal who just found a path to the White House by way of the disgruntled GOP base and the equally disgruntled formerly Democrat industrial working class voters left behind by the Information Age. Trump can't borrow much more in America because he's already ripped Wall Street off for $300 million, hence why he courts Russian Oligarchs instead. The electorate is increasingly intolerant of migrants, Trump is simply being democratic by responding to that. I don't admire him, but I do see him as a means to an end, he's useful, which is more important than admirable. In terms of mean spirited, I'm far meaner than Trump so I'm in no position to sit in judgement of him for that, and I honestly have an affinity for other mean spirited people, I have no time for sob stories. I agree that Trump has appealed to a neglected element of US society. I also think Trump understands Information Age media better than any U.S. president. He’s also beholden to Russia. He’s no Goebbels, but he’s a dangerous character who has empowered white supremacacists and shifted the debates to the right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said: I agree that Trump has appealed to a neglected element of US society. I also think Trump understands Information Age media better than any U.S. president. He’s also beholden to Russia. He’s no Goebbels, but he’s a dangerous character who has empowered white supremacacists and shifted the debates to the right. Half right....Trump also appeals to very successful elements of "US society". Trump is such a gorilla in the Canadian psyche because the American experience and politics are so dominant in Canada, regardless of who is president. As for pipelines, Trump reversed Obama's denial of KXL permits for crossing the border. White supremacists have constitutional rights in the U.S., it is not the same as in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted July 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Half right....Trump also appeals to very successful elements of "US society". Trump is such a gorilla in the Canadian psyche because the American experience and politics are so dominant in Canada, regardless of who is president. As for pipelines, Trump reversed Obama's denial of KXL permits for crossing the border. White supremacists have constitutional rights in the U.S., it is not the same as in Canada. Keystone XL is tied up in US courts. And you’re right that most of Trump’s supporters were the wealthier elements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said: I agree that Trump has appealed to a neglected element of US society. I also think Trump understands Information Age media better than any U.S. president. He’s also beholden to Russia. He’s no Goebbels, but he’s a dangerous character who has empowered white supremacacists and shifted the debates to the right. Beholden to Russia is nonsense, influenced by Russian Oligarchs, plausible, but no crime, White Supremacy is also no crime in America as it is in Canada, and I for one am quite happy to shift the debates to the right, that's no danger to me, bring it on, like a firestorm to incinerate leftist sacred cows, burn baby burn. Edited July 9, 2019 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted July 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Dougie93 said: Beholden to Russia is nonsense, influenced by Russian Oligarchs, plausible, but no crime, White Supremacy is also no crime in America as it is in Canada, and I for one am quite happy to shift the debates the right, that's no danger to me, bring it on, like a firestorm to incinerate leftist sacred cows, burn baby burn. Just a matter of time before AOC starts collectivization. Should be quite a show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted July 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 5 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: So ? Why does he have such an impact on your world ? Does he impact your property in Florida ? A lot of Americans are critical of Trump too. It actually protects America to be critical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Just a matter of time before AOC starts collectivization. Should be quite a show. Actually that dingbat is quite useful, all she does is alienate people further to the right, but she has no influence outside of deep blue urban centers, which the Democrats already own, the Bernie Broads same as Bernie Bros, all they can do is blow the Democrats up, again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 22 hours ago, jacee said: Neither you nor the feds can dictate where provinces get their fossil fuels from. Yes, in fact, the feds can easily do so. 22 hours ago, jacee said: It's a waning industry anyway According to most estimates it will probably continue to grow for at least forty or fifty years. 22 hours ago, jacee said: certainly not a time for plugging (the already dead) Energy East. The opposition was so strong and so broad they didn't even try putting it through an assessment process. Lol The opposition in Ontario has disappeared. The only opposition remaining is in Quebec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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