Trump-Trudeau Fall-Out

[betsy]

1 hour ago, capricorn said:

 

Trudeau is riding high thanks to anti-Trump sentiments. Could that entice Justin to call a snap summer election?

https://ipolitics.ca/2018/06/12/anyone-in-the-mood-for-a-summer-election/

 

Oh.   He can do that?

[turningrite]

36 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Trump was right to insist on a sunset clause...here's why:

 

 

I'm not an opponent of the idea of a sunset clause. And I agree that public input into the FTA/NAFTA arrangements was cursory, at best. But five years seems a very short time period. It's taken North America almost ten years to recover from the last major recession, for instance. Although I'm not a huge fan of regional trading pacts in general and believe trade is better regulated under WTO rules and procedures, I think a much longer time frame should be set to examine the effectiveness of deals like the NAFTA.

Edited June 15, 2018 by turningrite

[capricorn]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

Oh.   He can do that?

Trudeau's majority government can most certainly do that.

[Argus]

14 hours ago, dialamah said:

What, exactly, have you had to change in your every day life because of "accommodation"?  

The sense of belonging that used to be commonplace wherever you went. I remember my mom telling me, when we moved to Ottawa from Quebec, how wonderful it was for her to walk down a street or go into a mall and hear everyone speaking English. She had felt like an outsider where we used to live. Now she felt part of the community. When we see the streets, malls, schools filled with foreigners babbling in foreign tongues, dressing in foreign costumes, we feel much less of a sense of belonging which is so important to nationhood and our sense of unity. Now our major cities are more than half filled with foreigners, with the numbers rising steadily under the influence of shrill progressive zealots who hate Canada and want to remake it into some sort of international cosmopolitan land with no culture or unique values.

Quote

How exactly, are Canadians not "first"?   

Maybe you can ask all those poor Canadians who were on the list for subsidized housing who got shoved way down the list by the influx of tens of thousands of 'homeless' Syrians and are being shoved even further down the lists now by tens of thousands of 'homeless' migrants. Maybe you can ask all the people waiting for operations who just got shoved aside to make way for all the tens and hundreds of thousands of migrants and immigrants Trudeau is allowing into Canada, or all the seniors who can't get into subsidized senior residences because Trudeau has doubled the number of senior immigrants allowed into Canada - all immediately eligible for full social services.

Quote

And, please note that the arguments from the conservatives go like this:  "Why should we help immigrants when our own citizens are homeless, hungry etc?  Shouldn't our tax dollars go to helping our people first", and then when ideas are raised that require tax money to help the homeless/hungry/etc, the argument becomes "Well, why aren't they working and finding their own house? 

More like the argument is "Jesus, you're already taking tens of billions from me for all these migrants and immigrants and natives and now you want to take billions more!?"

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Argus

[Argus]

25 minutes ago, capricorn said:

Trudeau's majority government can most certainly do that.

They'll want to finish their polling first to see how much Trump has driven up Trudeau's popularity.

[Argus]

7 hours ago, betsy said:

Why should I blame Trump???   He's doing what he thinks is best for his own country!  He's acting on behalf of his own!  Whether he's making a mistake or not, that's not our problem. 

Because your blame of Trudeau presumes he could have done something to appease the madman in Washington, and there's no evidence of that. He employed basic common sense, just like Harper tried to do with Obama when he called the keystone pipeline a 'no brainer'. He presumed Obama actually cared about facts. But he didn't. Nor does Trump. Facts and reality don't seem to work on Trump at all. That the US ships us more steel than the reverse is immaterial. That aluminum prices are skyrocketing and will increase costs to US manufacturers while producing no more jobs (US Aluminum production has been at maximum for some time) is irrelevant. He needs to wave his penis around and act like a big man because, at heart, he's nothing but a petulant, mean-spirited bully and narcisist. That's all this is about. And it's virtually impossible to deal with such a person.

[capricorn]

16 minutes ago, Argus said:

They'll want to finish their polling first to see how much Trump has driven up Trudeau's popularity.

The sooner we have an election the better, if only for the Conservative Party to remove Scheer as leader. Scheer is in the wrong party. He should cross over to the Liberals where he truly belongs. End result, Trudeau will win the next election hands down regardless of the trade issue.

[Argus]

2 minutes ago, capricorn said:

The sooner we have an election the better, if only for the Conservative Party to remove Scheer as leader. Scheer is in the wrong party. He should cross over to the Liberals where he truly belongs. End result, Trudeau will win the next election hands down regardless of the trade issue.

I was pulling more for O'toole, but what exactly is your issue with Scheer? Up until now the Tories had been well in the lead in the polls. And he's done a good job of fending off the typical media/left wing portrayal of the conservatives as big bad, mean, evil cruel, racist, nasty people.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Argus

[betsy]

1 hour ago, capricorn said:

Trudeau's majority government can most certainly do that.

Maybe.......it could work for the Conservative Party!   Ford just announced he'll scrap the carbon tax, and reduce gas price - he's delivering what he promised.   That might reflect well on the federal Cons.  They have to remind people of Trudeau's failure to deliver.

[capricorn]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

I was pulling more for O'toole, but what exactly is your issue with Scheer? Up until now the Tories had been well in the lead in the polls. And he's done a good job of fending off the typical media/left wing portrayal of the conservatives as big bad, mean, evil cruel, racist, nasty people.

I voted for Christine Elliott, Max Bernier and O'toole, in that order. IMO, the reason Scheer smoothed out the edges of the image of the Conservatives is that he appears too willing to please everyone. Could this be a result of his role as Speaker was to arbitrate between the different parties in the House? Without a strong front bench, he'd be lost. Oh, and just wait for the next election campaign. The Conservatives will once again be vilified as the party that will ruin all that is good about Canada.

I also think he was too quick to back Trudeau in defending supply management. My view of supply management is that it is an impediment to free trade and borders on socialism. In the case of dairy it's disgraceful that Canadians should have to pay more for products because of domestic dairy quotas. All political parties want to continue this game of kowtowing to farmers for their own self interest, i.e. votes.

[betsy]

42 minutes ago, Argus said:

Because your blame of Trudeau presumes he could have done something to appease the madman in Washington, and there's no evidence of that. He employed basic common sense, just like Harper tried to do with Obama when he called the keystone pipeline a 'no brainer'. He presumed Obama actually cared about facts. But he didn't. Nor does Trump. Facts and reality don't seem to work on Trump at all. That the US ships us more steel than the reverse is immaterial. That aluminum prices are skyrocketing and will increase costs to US manufacturers while producing no more jobs (US Aluminum production has been at maximum for some time) is irrelevant. He needs to wave his penis around and act like a big man because, at heart, he's nothing but a petulant, mean-spirited bully and narcisist. That's all this is about. And it's virtually impossible to deal with such a person.

He didn't have to appease!  All he had to do was talk positive during the closing statement of the G7 - especially so when there's some progress with their bilateral meeting!  He could've just ignored Trump's rhetorics - after all, we've heard them all before!  

 

His ministers have been working so hard trying to get NAFTA going !  Just look at Freeland!  She's looked so much older lately - her task is not an easy one!  And this reckless PM just decided to throw everything they've been working so hard for, just to preen again before everyone!

[taxme]

On 6/10/2018 at 1:02 PM, betsy said:

Watch the whole video above.

I can understand where Trump is coming from. When there is a 270% tariff on dairy products coming into Canada from the USA that is beyond being and acting like a fair trading partner. That is not a reasonable tariff that is theft. How can a country justify putting a 270% tariff on anything? That 270% tariff was to protect the farmers of Quebec farmers who would not be farmers anymore if it were not for the Federal government always trying to bail out Quebec. 

Personally, I would like to know as to why two countries like Canada and America have tariffs on anything at all? We are suppose to be great friends and neighbors. Why are we fighting against each other like this? Drop all tariffs and let the free market in both countries run and do the wheeling and dealing and the government should stay out of it all. It sounds short, sweet and simple if you ask me. Both countries should not be fighting over tariffs and maybe should think about getting rid of them altogether because the only ones that get hurt is the consumers. Does this sound like a crazy idea to you?  What say you, Betsy?   

 

[Jimwd]

On 6/10/2018 at 8:41 AM, betsy said:

By now, we already know about the press conference given by Trump prior to leaving for Singapore, and the famous closing statement at the G7 meeting given by Trudeau:

 

 

 

and his statement had triggered Trump's famous tweet:

 

Based on Justin’s false statements at his news conference, and the fact that Canada is charging massive Tariffs to our U.S. farmers, workers and companies, I have instructed our U.S. Reps not to endorse the Communique as we look at Tariffs on automobiles flooding the U.S. Market!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/g7-leaders-final-communique-1.4699658

 

 

-------------------

 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/white-house-adviser-kudlow-trump-trudeau-g7-summit-blame-1.4700061

 

 

 

I watched Kudlow on Face The Nation (the video clip isn't up yet),  and he blasted Trudeau for his closing statement.  

Kudlow said that he was in the room when they had the bilateral meeting - and it was progressing (the same sentiment was repeated by Morneau at Evan Solomon's Question Period, that it was constructive and progressing). 

Kudlow said that Trudeau should know better than to take pot-shots at Trump, especially at a time when Trump is headed for an important negotiation with Kim Jong Un  - Trump would definitely want to look strong, and wouldn't let any pot-shots go by!

 

APPARENTLY....EVERYTHING WAS GOING ON PROGRESSIVELY.....UNTIL TRUDEAU MADE HIS POT SHOTS AGAIN!   At a worst timing to boot!

 

Now, we're facing a very critical time (according to Solomon).  Putting a tarriff on automobiles will hit our economy really bad.  Retaliation won't do us any good - at the end of the day.....it's Canada that will suffer the most.

 

What to do with this Trudeau?  He can't control himself!

Trump is a pathological liar who told people that mexico would pay for a wall. Praised dictators......lied to trued about Trade balance...Who got a mindless mob to do a Lockstep Monkey Chant ..lock her up lock her up....Please 

 

On 6/10/2018 at 8:41 AM, betsy said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[taxme]

2 hours ago, capricorn said:

The sooner we have an election the better, if only for the Conservative Party to remove Scheer as leader. Scheer is in the wrong party. He should cross over to the Liberals where he truly belongs. End result, Trudeau will win the next election hands down regardless of the trade issue.

It is for sure that Scheer is not a Trump or appears to be a true and real conservative at heart. Scheer needs to appear to be more politically incorrect and tell Canadians what they need and want to hear which is if I become the PM of Canada I will be cutting taxes, cutting government and cutting laws like hate speech where people will have no fear from the government when they dare to question and challenge and express their right to their opinions and points of view on any subject. I am pretty sure that what they want to hear him say is let's make Canada great again because the liberals have pretty much made Canada not so great anymore. 

Geez, I hope that Trudeau does not win the next election. If he does then Canada as we once knew it will be dead period. It will not be the Canada that our parents and grandparents and some of us older guys and gals grew up in. Gawd only knows what will then happen to us all if that prime mistake is elected again as the fool and dictator of Canada. Unfortunately, I would have to vote for the conservatives in the hope that there is some conservatism in Scheer. I think that Maxine Bernier would have made a better leader for the conservative party leader than Scheer. But with Bernier gone Scheer is all we have left to hope for a change from the liberal plan for the total destruction of the WASP/European Canada. Just my opinion. 

[betsy]

12 hours ago, taxme said:

It is for sure that Scheer is not a Trump or appears to be a true and real conservative at heart. Scheer needs to appear to be more politically incorrect and tell Canadians what they need and want to hear which is if I become the PM of Canada I will be cutting taxes, cutting government and cutting laws like hate speech where people will have no fear from the government when they dare to question and challenge and express their right to their opinions and points of view on any subject. I am pretty sure that what they want to hear him say is let's make Canada great again because the liberals have pretty much made Canada not so great anymore. 

Geez, I hope that Trudeau does not win the next election. If he does then Canada as we once knew it will be dead period. It will not be the Canada that our parents and grandparents and some of us older guys and gals grew up in. Gawd only knows what will then happen to us all if that prime mistake is elected again as the fool and dictator of Canada. Unfortunately, I would have to vote for the conservatives in the hope that there is some conservatism in Scheer. I think that Maxine Bernier would have made a better leader for the conservative party leader than Scheer. But with Bernier gone Scheer is all we have left to hope for a change from the liberal plan for the total destruction of the WASP/European Canada. Just my opinion. 

Hopefully, Scheer will put that sacred cow,  Supply Management, on the table for negotiations.  It's only there for political reasons.

[betsy]

15 hours ago, taxme said:

I can understand where Trump is coming from. When there is a 270% tariff on dairy products coming into Canada from the USA that is beyond being and acting like a fair trading partner. That is not a reasonable tariff that is theft. How can a country justify putting a 270% tariff on anything? That 270% tariff was to protect the farmers of Quebec farmers who would not be farmers anymore if it were not for the Federal government always trying to bail out Quebec. 

Personally, I would like to know as to why two countries like Canada and America have tariffs on anything at all? We are suppose to be great friends and neighbors. Why are we fighting against each other like this? Drop all tariffs and let the free market in both countries run and do the wheeling and dealing and the government should stay out of it all. It sounds short, sweet and simple if you ask me. Both countries should not be fighting over tariffs and maybe should think about getting rid of them altogether because the only ones that get hurt is the consumers. Does this sound like a crazy idea to you?  What say you, Betsy?   

 

 

To point at the USA's subsidy for her agriculture, is not a rebuttal.   That's what he's working on - to remove subsidies.

 

Trump made it clear.   He's aiming for EQUAL trading.   No barriers.  No tarriffs.   No subsidies.   That means, that goes for everyone - including the USA.

I don't see anything wrong with that.  Especially so between friends and allies.  Friends and allies should treat one another equally.

 

The prosperity of all friends and allies will ensure the triumph of the alliance in facing any disasters or adversaries.   Indeed, economy is tied with national security.   If you don't have the dough - your defense is weakened.  You become a "dead weight" to your compadres!

 

If all our allies will have an under-funded and gutted military like us, thanks to the Liberals  - might as well raise the white flag!  Who can we rely on for protection and support? 

 

Edited June 16, 2018 by betsy

[GostHacked]

2 hours ago, betsy said:

To point at the USA's subsidy for her agriculture, is not a rebuttal.   That's what he's working on - to remove subsidies.

Trump made it clear.   He's aiming for EQUAL trading.   No barriers.  No tarriffs.   No subsidies.   That means, that goes for everyone - including the USA.

Tariffs are nothing more than subsidies.  Trump threw down the tariffs first, and he is not for fair trade. Because he was able to make a lot of money on the previous rules of outsourcing manufacturing to China and slave migrant labour from Latin America. He does not give a shit about the American people.

[Army Guy]

On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 10:45 PM, Kerfuffle said:

Hi Army Guy.....I am not saying if we dont like whats going on that you have to leave....I just stated it as an option if things are so bad here. I agree with you that we should protect Canadian values and culture....but some on here would rather support Trump and Kim Jung Un ,Vlad Putin then their own government.

You seem to project that idea in your post, you also seem to project the idea that everything is peachy keen in our nation,  while this is just my opinion.....I think there is a shit tonne wrong with our nation, and I don't want to leave it,....and I think we all deserve more than we are getting right now.....and that getting anything passed through parliament is next to imposable , our government knows that and distracts us with things like changing the national anthem to be more neutral, or stuffing great gobs of feminism into a trade agreement...purchasing USED F-18 off an allied.....perhaps we could use a little trump here in Canada....perhaps we need some else to kick us in the pants to wake us up the Canadian voters....plus all sides cons, liberal, green, NDP.....start addressing problems, major problems...stop jerking around while watching everything from the side lines.... Has Justin even kept one promise he made getting into office....

[Argus]

This is actually a very good idea on several levels. First, Ford and Trump probably would get along a hell of a lot better than Trump and Trudeau. Second, if the Americans wanted to cut a deal but make Trudeau look bad this is the way to do it. Much of the automotive, steel, aluminum and dairy industries are in Ontario, and since Canada's federal government has been busy discussing trade with senators, congressmen and governors there's no reason the Americans couldn't do the same with one of our premiers.

I bet Trump would love the idea of doing an end run around Trudeau with a guy who 'admires' him, and has been compared to him. And if the deal is reasonable then whether the feds approve of it or not they still come out looking bad and Ford and Trump come out looking good.

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/hyder-why-doug-ford-should-go-to-washington

Edited June 16, 2018 by Argus

[Signals.Cpl]

3 hours ago, betsy said:

 

To point at the USA's subsidy for her agriculture, is not a rebuttal.   That's what he's working on - to remove subsidies.

 

Trump made it clear.   He's aiming for EQUAL trading.   No barriers.  No tarriffs.   No subsidies.   That means, that goes for everyone - including the USA.

 

 

 

Maybe he should start by removing subsidies to American farmers... lead by example. He is attacking what he perceives as inequalities in trade with Canada while ignoring the fact that the US does the same thing in a different way.

 

 

Quote

The prosperity of all friends and allies will ensure the triumph of the alliance in facing any disasters or adversaries.   Indeed, economy is tied with national security.   If you don't have the dough - your defense is weakened.  You become a "dead weight" to your compadres!

He does not seem particularly interested in the prosperity of his allies, nor does he seem interested in the prosperity of the United States, because if he were interested in the prosperity of his allies he would not be trying to damage or destroy their economies and if he cared one shred about the prosperity of the United States beyond his own personal financial interests he would not be starting a trade war with the countries that take 65.5 % of American exports. Trump has placed the United States in the exact same situation that Canada is in because he is putting tariffs against countries that represent such a large % of American exports, if those countries reply in kind and escalate when Trump escalates, things will get very painful for the US. At the same time Trump is blaming China for the trade imbalance but the trade imbalance was and still is the fault of American corporations. Corporations outsource their manufacturing to China for cheaper labour and lax regulations and then import the final product into the United States and the US is complaining that China is taking advantage of the US when the US companies are taking advantage of the US. What % of China's exports to the US is actually made up of American companies that outsourced their manufacturing to China?  When the American people get hit with a price increase in everything affected by the tariffs Trump imposed and then American manufacturers start suffering because of the Retaliation tariffs from America's trading partners the only name that will come up associated with blame would be Trump. After all if Canada and the US are in a trade war Americans can point the finger at Canada as the culprit, but if the US is in a trade war with China, Canada, Mexico, European Union and Japan then the problem is common in all of those trade war's and that is the US.

[Army Guy]

On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 11:14 PM, dialamah said:

What, exactly, have you had to change in your every day life because of "accommodation"?   Accommodating newcomers/immigrants/refugees certainly hasn't removed anything from my Iife;   I can say Merry Christmas if I want to, despite the desperate attempts of victim-prone conservatives to claim I can't.  I can celebrate all the same religious festivals I celebrated as a child, plus some extras.   I can vote for my preferred candidate, worship my preferred God - or none at all.  I can work, or stay home.  I can dress how I want and in some places, I don't have to dress at all.   I have enough to eat and I have shelter and can live in safety and security, relative to many other parts of the world - including the US.  In addition, in my lifetime, I have seen freedom and equality extended to even more people - women, blacks, gays - than was available to them when I was born.   So please, tell me - exactly how have you  suffered due to accommodation?

 

Well then good for you Dialamah….well done, I'm sure if you thought about it for more than a second even YOU can find a few things that Canadians have had to change or accommodate so our culture could be more accommodating…..it seems to be the Canadian thing to do, almost rates up there with slagging Americans or in your case Israelis...

I mean every day our government is going on the media and saying sorry to someone for things we have done in the past, since our inception......and this is not some victim prone conservative thing, like there is a thing, I mean how many groups did harper say sorry to........this is a Justin , liberal thing, having to accommodate everyone about everything until there is nothing left of the original idea...from our national anthem....to our Christmas holidays....we are obsessed with changing things to accommodate someone....The whole idea of immigrants coming to a new land was to escape there own....not to transport their culture to Canadian shores, but to become part of our culture....to embrace it and all of it's whacky ideas and practices...But for the most part that seems to much for new comers to do, this is why we have massive Muslim enclaves in Toronto ,and else were or  china towns in BC, most immigrants band together with their own culture they are not interested in becoming Canadians, but rather exports from their own nations...Travel down these places and you'll lucky to see English signs, or even have the owners speak English to customers, this is not what immigration was suppose to look like......... then people like you come on here and demand "what have you changed" ...everything has changed.....And while it does not effect me in a huge way, every second of my day.....it does not change the fact changes or accommodations where  made...

And no where in my post did I say I have suffered under these accommodations…..…..I said I am tired of making accommodations to everyone and every group that comes along.....

 

 

[betsy]

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Tariffs are nothing more than subsidies.  Trump threw down the tariffs first, and he is not for fair trade. Because he was able to make a lot of money on the previous rules of outsourcing manufacturing to China and slave migrant labour from Latin America. He does not give a shit about the American people.

 

He put the tarriff to get to his aim:   no barriers, no tarriffs, no subsidies!

 

[betsy]

1 hour ago, Signals.Cpl said:

 

Maybe he should start by removing subsidies to American farmers... lead by example.

Why should anyone voluntarily give up any leverage they have?   That should come up in negotiations, right?   Surely they'll demand that from the USA!

Edited June 16, 2018 by betsy

[GostHacked]

1 minute ago, betsy said:

 

He put the tarriff to get to his aim:   no barriers, no tarriffs, no subsidies!

 

Well good luck with buying anything 100% made in America. One you get your head around that, you'll start to understand how stupid starting trade wars are. Especially when corps (including ones Trump dealt with) starting offshoring manufacturing.  The PC you are using is most likely all made in Asia. Actually 90% of your electronics/technology is built overseas. Your car has parts made from all over the world, but it might be assembled in Mexico and sold as a US product. The integration of economies of the last 50 years means that to Make America Great again, it will take a return of manufacturing within the USA, but at the cost of American labour, those products are going to be very very expensive. People are used to this comfort level based on that alone. Why does Walmart NOT have their world HQ in the USA?

Those tariffs mean that US corps are going to have a to pay more for for their products made from their own factory in China.

[Signals.Cpl]

16 minutes ago, betsy said:

Why should anyone voluntarily give up any leverage they have?   That should come up in negotiations, right?   Surely they'll demand that from the USA!

Why should Canada change their policies then? Should we make unilateral concessions in the hope that Trump will negotiate with us? I don't know exactly how much value any treaty/agreement signed by the Trump administration has since after all many times even his advisors are caught off guard by his change of policy which usually comes out through twitter.