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Signals: How do honest people show themselves


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Abroad, I am facing various problems to show that I am who I claim to be. Sometimes, I wish that I had a Norwegian or Icelandic name.

Increasingly, I suspect, so-called data/social-analytics/Karl Marx/Noam Chomsky will realize that signals make the game.

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Among the several 7 billion people in the world, how do you show others that you're an honest person? 

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On 5/29/2018 at 7:01 PM, August1991 said:

Abroad, I am facing various problems to show that I am who I claim to be. Sometimes, I wish that I had a Norwegian or Icelandic name.

Increasingly, I suspect, so-called data/social-analytics/Karl Marx/Noam Chomsky will realize that signals make the game.

 =====

Among the several 7 billion people in the world, how do you show others that you're an honest person? 

Doesn't a Canadian flag sewn on your backpack cut it anymore?

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On 1/14/2019 at 7:31 PM, AngusThermopyle said:

Accents have Jack sh*t to do with it. There's only one way, be an honest person. Anything less is to be dishonest.

But how to signal that you're honest? (Like bird calls, dishonest people can imitate honest people.)

At issue, how to show/signal that you are who you say you are.

======

Canadians typically speak English and French - with some very bad accents. Few foreigners can imitate Stephen Harper's French or François Legault's English. And Justin Trudeau? To Butts' gratitude, he's gotta be Canadian.

 

 

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6 hours ago, August1991 said:

But how to signal that you're honest?  

Indeed, the value in trust is so high that we can't afford to run a country without it.  Imagine having to be able to double check every statement or transaction ?

 

Those who sell verification services and security know this...

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18 hours ago, August1991 said:

But how to signal that you're honest? (Like bird calls, dishonest people can imitate honest people.)

At issue, how to show/signal that you are who you say you are.

======

Canadians typically speak English and French - with some very bad accents. Few foreigners can imitate Stephen Harper's French or François Legault's English. And Justin Trudeau? To Butts' gratitude, he's gotta be Canadian.

 

 

As I said, there is no signal, signals can be imitated too. There is only one way, just be as unfailingly honest as you possibly can be. There's no quick fix or magic bullet, honesty itself is the answer to your question.

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On 1/16/2019 at 6:05 PM, AngusThermopyle said:

As I said, there is no signal, signals can be imitated too. There is only one way, just be as unfailingly honest as you possibly can be. There's no quick fix or magic bullet, honesty itself is the answer to your question.

Angus,

How to show/signal that you're honest?

Abroad, I often merely want to show that I am truly Canadian. An ability to speak French and English, like Harper's French or the English of Marois is enough to show/signal that I am Canadian: the accent is obvious, eh. Then, foreigners trust me as a, uh, genuine Canadian - je pense.

Edited by August1991
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On 1/16/2019 at 3:35 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Indeed, the value in trust is so high that we can't afford to run a country without it.  Imagine having to be able to double check every statement or transaction ?

Seems to be the case already. I assume 100% of information I casually hear/see is wrong and disregard most of it, while researching the veracity of the small subset which is of enough importance to warrant the time to do so. 

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On 1/16/2019 at 3:05 PM, AngusThermopyle said:

As I said, there is no signal, signals can be imitated too. There is only one way, just be as unfailingly honest as you possibly can be. There's no quick fix or magic bullet, honesty itself is the answer to your question.

Agreed. The only way to show your honesty is to continue to be honest for long enough that the person who you are trying to convince of your honesty thoroughly establishes the fact of your honesty in their minds. And then, once they fully trust you, is when you betray them of course and move on to the next victim. 

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6 hours ago, Bonam said:

Seems to be the case already. I assume 100% of information I casually hear/see is wrong and disregard most of it, while researching the veracity of the small subset which is of enough importance to warrant the time to do so. 

Really ?  Including in-person interactions ?  And friends and family and friends of friends ?  What about written instructions ?  

Trust is like oxygen: you forget it's there.

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5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Really ?  Including in-person interactions ?  And friends and family and friends of friends ?  What about written instructions ?  

You were talking about "running a country". When it comes to family and friends, if they are talking about themselves, plans that we are making, or other things that they should have clear knowledge or controlling decision making power over, then sure I'll trust them. But if they are talking about politics, the latest "scientific study", or other things they may have heard or seen that they don't have direct knowledge or control over, I assume it's bullsh*t just as if I'd seen it on facebook. Whether I let them know of that fact or politely smile and nod depends on the person, of course. 

Edited by Bonam
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On 1/15/2019 at 8:47 PM, August1991 said:

But how to signal that you're honest? (Like bird calls, dishonest people can imitate honest people.)

At issue, how to show/signal that you are who you say you are.

By your actions. The answer is no different when you're left wondering how to tell if someone else is honest.

It takes time to tell, there's just no way around it.

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Two things I always keep a healthy respect for, one is a mans prerogative to be lazy, and another is a mans prerogative to lie.

I don't want to live in a world of zero deception, that's an Orwellian Panopticon.

In terms of trying to convince people of my honesty?  I don't bother, I either let the argument stand on its own merits, or I try to illustrate how we have mutual self interest and there's no reason for us to show all our cards to do business, cause it's not personal, it's business.

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On 1/16/2019 at 6:05 PM, AngusThermopyle said:

As I said, there is no signal, signals can be imitated too. There is only one way, just be as unfailingly honest as you possibly can be. There's no quick fix or magic bullet, honesty itself is the answer to your question.

So what are you going to do if/when you end up in jail?  You're going to be unfailingly honest to everybody, including the guards?

What would you do in the army, rat your fire team partner out to the chain of command, or lie to protect the man who your life is depending on?

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18 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Honest people, if they are smart, do not show themselves.

And dishonest smart people do the same. They also do not show themselves.

OftenWrong, your remark is terribly naive, and not helpful.

=====

Like someone from Iceland, I now rely on my family name. On the phone, I also speak with an accent to show that I am truly, uh, "Canadian". 

Edited by August1991
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5 hours ago, August1991 said:

Like someone from Iceland, I now rely on my family name. On the phone, I also speak with an accent to show that I am truly, uh, "Canadian". 

Not sure what the issue is.  For non-commercial interactions you start with an assumed level of civility and let your street smarts take you.  For commercial interactions, you give them your Visa card to begin.

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On 2/7/2019 at 7:49 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Not sure what the issue is.  For non-commercial interactions you start with an assumed level of civility and let your street smarts take you.  For commercial interactions, you give them your Visa card to begin.

Michael, it's an issue.

How do I show that I am who I am.

=====

Reputation matters.

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9 hours ago, August1991 said:

Michael, it's an issue.

How do I show that I am who I am.

=====

Reputation matters.

I just told you.  Give me some context and tell me why my answers are wrong. 

I thought of another: LinkedIn or Facebook friends which is the digital method of 'letter of introduction'

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45 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Michael,

Context? Talking with someone in the Philippines/Egypt or (Welland/Sherbrooke) who asks you a "few questions" to verify "your status".

To make this personal, I always ask where the person is, and how the weather is where they are.

The answers are remarkable, and human.

Why are you talking to them?  It's not really natural to have a light conversation with someone on the other side of the world for no reason.

This is the context I crave.

For some reason you like to dance around answering the questions anyone would ask.  

Maybe you think this is clever, I don't know.  It leads to a series of half-interesting conversation openings which you like to pepper with Cheshire Cat observations.

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