angrypenguin Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 Doesn't seem that any major news publication has written who was the clear victor. Anybody have anything? Polls, perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) Pundits seems to be saying it's a tie for all. Here are the criticisms: Horvath kept interrupting; seen as combative. Ford didn't give details on his platform Wynne for her "I'm not sorry...." script - which could be like waving a red flag to a bull. My take: Andrea Horvath doesn't know what she's on about. She kept accusing Ford of being disrespectful to voters for not giving details to his platforms - and yet at the same time she was quite disrespectful to all viewers last night for trying to drown out the other two (by her incessant interruptions). In case it's lost to her, a debate isn't a Horvath monopoly. As to Wynn - she can really look you in the face, and lie. And I think.....she indeed, believes her own lies. I wish Ford would speak a little bit faster than that. I'm almost wanting to pull the words out of his mouth as he spoke. But he played it well - he doesn't have to give details to his platforms. Why should he? For the other two to have a chance to steal them? Details are not important when a politician cannot be trusted anyway - like the way Wynne treated her details" like, not going to sell Hydro 1 (and she didn't follow her detail, did she?) Yeah, Horvath gave a few details as to where she's going to pull the billions of dollars to support her humonguous planned spendings - but what's the real detail on "PAY a LITTLE BIT MORE TAXES?" How "little is "a bit more?" She makes it sound like it's nothing at all. She's trying to seem open, but her words are ambiguous. There's really no detail there. It's kinda like the same amount of details Ford had said that he'll look into efficiency by talking to the front-liners (the ones who really see and has the experience of what's going on)......except that Ford gave the practical detail! He gave his track record - and no one got laid off. You can't ask for anymore than that. All Ford has to do is say what he aims to do - and if he gets into power, deliver them! Edited May 28, 2018 by betsy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) Wynne did and Ford came second. Horwath gave a JT-type performance equivalent to hanging on to the other guy in boxing. She stopped them from landing anything big so she didn’t lose too badly which may be all she needed to do to win the war. Ford once again showed he’s short on the sort of detail one would expect from students at this level. He looked exhausted as well. Edited May 28, 2018 by SpankyMcFarland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 2 hours ago, betsy said: I wish Ford would speak a little bit faster than that. I'm almost wanting to pull the words out of his mouth as he spoke. But he played it well - he doesn't have to give details to his platforms. Why should he? For the other two to have a chance to steal them? Yes, I think Ford's inexperience in such debates was apparent. However, he did manage to speak to audience in a way that they could understand. On the matter of a costed platform, it's not easy putting one together when you haven't seen the books. And knowing the creative accounting the Liberals have perfected, no doubt it's one big mess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H10 Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 I disagree with all the other's above me. I have been clear that I think NDP will win. However, I saw this as a big victory for Doug Ford. 1. Wynne did ok, she defended her record. 2. Horwath didn't land any knockout blows but didn't do or say anything to blow up her own spot. 3. Ford didn't have a platform, but explained his record, he was able to maintain the idea that he wasn't going to cut any government workers jobs, he was going to fix healthcare, cut waste, and create job growth while cutting taxes and creating good paying jobs. I doubt he could really do it, but I believe if this was really true, he could win the election. Doug could be wise to stay in provinicial politics, gain some experience in opposition, then if NDP doesn't deliver, ok, he could still win as an alternative. So in my view, Ford is the big winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 55 minutes ago, capricorn said: Yes, I think Ford's inexperience in such debates was apparent. However, he did manage to speak to audience in a way that they could understand. Yes. Actually that was pointed out by a pundit - that he was able to speak to those that aren't highly educated (not meant as a put-down to them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 1 hour ago, betsy said: Yes. Actually that was pointed out by a pundit - that he was able to speak to those that aren't highly educated (not meant as a put-down to them). I would think quite a few well educated business owners and entrepreneurs were also listening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) Ford said it well when he advised people to ask their employers! With the $15 minimum wage hike ( which will result in people losing jobs or losing hours, as happened in Seattle) - with the NDP being in power (tax hike for businesses), the only business to remain standing, will be big corporations! The very ones socialists hate! How ironic is that? Edited May 28, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 (edited) For Canada’s most populous province, the standard of debate was truly awful. You had one candidate who heckled the whole way through and another who doesn’t even have a costed platform yet. Edited May 29, 2018 by SpankyMcFarland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-1=e^ipi Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 They all lost. Vote none of the above party! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted May 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 Interestingly enough most polls report that Wynne won, and I concur. She did well, although apparently that didn't mean anything to voters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 The worry with Ford is that Ontario may trade high tax/high spend for low tax/high spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted June 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: The worry with Ford is that Ontario may trade high tax/high spend for low tax/high spend. How is that a worry if you're earning > 42,000 which is the tax bracket that he is targeting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 4 hours ago, angrypenguin said: How is that a worry if you're earning > 42,000 which is the tax bracket that he is targeting? The worry is that the provincial debt will get even bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted June 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 38 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: The worry is that the provincial debt will get even bigger. I never ever got comments like this one. It makes 0 sense. NDP - running a deficit, seemingly no one cares Liberals - running a deficit, seemingly no one cares PCs - will be most likely running a deficit, yet those who support the NDP/Liberals LOVE chomping at the bits here when the PCs run a deficit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 2 hours ago, angrypenguin said: I never ever got comments like this one. It makes 0 sense. NDP - running a deficit, seemingly no one cares Liberals - running a deficit, seemingly no one cares PCs - will be most likely running a deficit, yet those who support the NDP/Liberals LOVE chomping at the bits here when the PCs run a deficit. It makes sense this way: do you want to see more debt or less? Long-term, debt is bad no matter who piles it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted June 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) 56 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: It makes sense this way: do you want to see more debt or less? Long-term, debt is bad no matter who piles it up. If I had it my way I would rather vote for a party that is for running a surplus government and thus takes thus surplus and pays down our debt. If that means taxes have to remain the same while gutting social services, I'm fine with that. If that means taxes can be decreased while gutting more social services, I'm fine with that. And before the left crucifies me for gutting social services, there are some social services I'm fine with gutting and some that I'm not fine with. E.g. Gutting healthcare - not a good idea. Gutting guaranteed income and paying for healthcare services for illegal aliens -yup, CUT. Gutting education - no, not for that. Gutting IVF and prescription drugs, especially for those who already have an insurance plan through their employer that covers their kids - WOW, am I for gutting that BAD! That's so wrong that government money is going to pay for drugs for kids whose parents have insurance plans that cover them. Edited June 1, 2018 by angrypenguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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