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InCel rebellion, Toronto


jacee

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On 5/11/2018 at 8:22 AM, jacee said:

They don't want a real woman. They can't sustain a real relationship. They just want a sex object they can dominate. There's a difference.

So legalize sex robots and prostitutes?

 

I think that the problem is that the incel ideology insists that people have sex with them; it's people who feel entitled to sex. Sex robots and prostitutes wouldn't fix that, so I don't think they just want a sex object.

Edited by -1=e^ipi
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On 4/29/2018 at 7:07 PM, Argus said:

Drivel. There is no such thing as misogyny. He didn't hate women. He hated not having a woman. He hated that other men had them and he didn't. He was jealous. He was emotionally stunted and developmentally challenged, with a persistent tic, who had special ed teachers in school. 

Who told him he has a right to "have" any woman?  He doesn't see women as autonomous and deserving freedom to make their own decisions...and if he's not part of it...thems the breaks! There seems to be a lot of guys who share the same attitudes about women. It's pretty common among conservatives.

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12 hours ago, WIP said:

 There seems to be a lot of guys who share the same attitudes about women. It's pretty common among conservatives.

You mean heterosexuality? Yes it is. Wanting women is a biological instinct not dependent upon a patriarchal culture.

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

You mean heterosexuality? Yes it is. Wanting women is a biological instinct not dependent upon a patriarchal culture.

I credit my father's bad example as a belligerent, controlling patriarch, and my mother's good example  of standing up and refusing to be cowed by him, as the reason why I grew up with a strong belief in women's rights and have tried to practice equality in my home. After 30 years of official marriage, I still want my wife to be with me because she wants to be with me/not because of obligation or that I need a female to exploit!

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20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Somebody asked a question about these people that I wonder about: do they feel that any woman has a right to them ?  Or that involuntarily celibate women they won't see are their fault ?

Isn't it obvious from the 'manifestos' that they don't consider women as having their own minds? Just a means to an end!

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5 hours ago, WIP said:

I credit my father's bad example as a belligerent, controlling patriarch, and my mother's good example  of standing up and refusing to be cowed by him, as the reason why I grew up with a strong belief in women's rights and have tried to practice equality in my home. After 30 years of official marriage, I still want my wife to be with me because she wants to be with me/not because of obligation or that I need a female to exploit!

That's mighty white of you but kind of irrelevant to the point, which is that men, esp young men, are always going to feel a biological need for women.

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22 hours ago, Argus said:

That's mighty white of you but kind of irrelevant to the point, which is that men, esp young men, are always going to feel a biological need for women.

It's also a fact-free claim of yours, since you're implying that a biological need...which is no more than a biological "urge," means that need includes a need to possess a woman.

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On 5/21/2018 at 7:08 PM, Argus said:

That's mighty white of you but kind of irrelevant to the point, which is that men, esp young men, are always going to feel a biological need for women.

Then legalize prostitution and sex robots. Problem solved.

 

With respect to having kids, legalize the sale of sperm, eggs, surrogacy services and artificial wombs. Problem solved.

 

Canada needs more freedom in general.

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 5/14/2018 at 9:59 PM, -1=e^ipi said:

So legalize sex robots and prostitutes?

 

I think that the problem is that the incel ideology insists that people have sex with them; it's people who feel entitled to sex. Sex robots and prostitutes wouldn't fix that, so I don't think they just want a sex object.

No, a rape object.

 

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On 5/12/2018 at 10:36 AM, Argus said:

You're not talking about misogynists but men with poor social skills who don't know how to read women, and thus don't have experience in talking to/relating to them. This is exacerbated by our society and culture where many women try to 'let them down easy' by making excuses or giving hints, many of them non-verbal in order to spare both sides embarrassment.

How often does a guy ask a woman to dance or go out and have her say something like "Sorry, but you don't meet my minimum standards." Such a woman would indeed be called a bitch, even though she's just being honest. Hey, men don't even approach women they don't think are physically attractive to begin with! It's silly to think such measurements only go one way. But women aren't allowed to say that (culturally) so they tend to give cues that most men understand - but not all, and not always.

Domineering? Hmm. That's a judgement thing on the part of both sides. Because one of the things women look for in a man is confidence. So there's a line where you demonstrate confidence (a 'bumbling' advance is the opposite of confident) but not arrogance, strength but not too much. To expect every guy to know where that line is, especially when drinking, especially given every woman draws the line in a different places, is unrealistic. And again, when you're dealing with men who don't have very good social skills, well...

I'm talking about men who become explosive, hateful and downright scary when they're rejected.

They are everywhere.

But you wouldn't know that.

These are the kind of guys that get bullied, ridiculed and dismissed as weird and pathetic by other guys. You don't realize how dangerous they are to women because you don't experience it ... and you dismiss women's complaints about them.

Edited by jacee
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9 hours ago, jacee said:

I'm talking about men who become explosive, hateful and downright scary when they're rejected.

They are everywhere.

No, they are not everywhere. They are a tiny minority of men.

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4 minutes ago, Argus said:

No, they are not everywhere. They are a tiny minority of men.

They are only a tiny minority if they are motivated by religion.  You should know that.

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27 minutes ago, Argus said:

No, they are not everywhere. They are a tiny minority of men.

Yes, they are a relatively small minority of men.  This is why most women don't generally assume men are going to be a-holes.  This is exactly the same argument I make about Islamic terrorists, which you reject.

22 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

They are only a tiny minority if they are motivated by religion.  You should know that.

They are all motivated by religion, whether its a devout Christian or Muslim or Sikh who firmly believes in his current God-given rights over women, or it's an atheist who thinks our society has completely shed the shackles of religious patriarchy and women should want to submit to his "natural, biological" rights over her.

Edited by dialamah
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4 hours ago, dialamah said:

Yes, they are a relatively small minority of men.  This is why most women don't generally assume men are going to be a-holes.  This is exactly the same argument I make about Islamic terrorists, which you reject.

They are all motivated by religion, whether its a devout Christian or Muslim or Sikh who firmly believes in his current God-given rights over women, or it's an atheist who thinks our society has completely shed the shackles of religious patriarchy and women should want to submit to his "natural, biological" rights over her.

I bet you can't quote me rejecting your argument about Islamic terrorists.  And I don't show approval for posts which say they are everywhere.

Edited by bcsapper
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction - Blaise Pascal
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6 hours ago, dialamah said:

Yes, they are a relatively small minority of men.  This is why most women don't generally assume men are going to be a-holes.  This is exactly the same argument I make about Islamic terrorists, which you reject.

No, I never have. I've never claimed Muslim terrorists are more than a tiny number. My problem with Muslims is their devotion to a medieval social code and value system which is antithetical to our own. And while only a small number become terrorists it is the brutality and ugliness and hate for non-believers which fills their religion which causes them to do so. And many who believe in Islam share those beliefs, even if they're not about to go blow people up.

Quote

They are all motivated by religion, whether its a devout Christian or Muslim or Sikh who firmly believes in his current God-given rights over women, or it's an atheist who thinks our society has completely shed the shackles of religious patriarchy and women should want to submit to his "natural, biological" rights over her.

Oh nonsense. Mostly, for those who are acting like assholes because they are turned down, they're driven by alcohol.  Except for the Muslims and some other newcomers to Canada. Those might indeed be driven by the factors you list above.

 

Edited by Argus
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24 minutes ago, Argus said:

No, I never have. I've never claimed Muslim terrorists are more than a tiny number.

 

6 hours ago, dialamah said:

Yes, they are a relatively small minority of men.  This is why most women don't generally assume men are going to be a-holes.  This is exactly the same argument I make about Islamic terrorists, which you reject.

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

I bet you can't quote me rejecting your argument about Islamic terrorists.  And I don't show approval for posts which say they are everywhere.

 

I didn't see that you were not quoting me there.  My apologies.

Edited by bcsapper
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On 6/23/2018 at 2:18 PM, dialamah said:

Yes, they are a relatively small minority of men.  This is why most women don't generally assume men are going to be a-holes.  This is exactly the same argument I make about Islamic terrorists, which you reject.

They are all motivated by religion, whether its a devout Christian or Muslim or Sikh who firmly believes in his current God-given rights over women, or it's an atheist who thinks our society has completely shed the shackles of religious patriarchy and women should want to submit to his "natural, biological" rights over her.

Never had a problem with any of those. 

Just garden variety creeps. 

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On 6/23/2018 at 5:33 PM, Argus said:

Oh nonsense. Mostly, for those who are acting like assholes because they are turned down, they're driven by alcohol.  Except for the Muslims and some other newcomers to Canada. Those might indeed be driven by the factors you list above.

All those religions believe men dominate women and women are there for men's convenience and pleasure.  This is also the Christian belief, and Western culture is "Christian".  In Canada, its only been 30 years that men could be charged with raping their wives.   My mother told me that she had to get her husband's permission to use birth control in the 50s.  Both of these things reflect our society's deep rooted belief that women are subject to men.  Sure, we are getting past all that BS, but If you think we've left all that behind in less than a generation, you are remarkably naive.  Especially given that most Canadians still call themselves Christian and a significant number of them also support the Biblical teaching that women submit to men.  That attitude is alive and well in Canada, even if its not as blatant as it used to be.  

Edited by dialamah
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10 hours ago, jacee said:

Explosive rejects are everywhere.

Obviously you aren't qualified to make that judgement because you don't have a woman's experience.

No, but I have been to the same places, and I do occasionally discuss things with women, you know.

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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

All those religions believe men dominate women and women are there for men's convenience and pleasure.  This is also the Christian belief, and Western culture is "Christian".  In Canada, 

Perhaps, but it is no longer the Christian belief, and more importantly, it hasn't been the cultural belief in Canada for many decades, whereas it definitely IS the cultural belief (as well as religious) in the homelands most of our immigrants came from.

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25 minutes ago, Argus said:

Perhaps, but it is no longer the Christian belief, and more importantly, it hasn't been the cultural belief in Canada for many decades, whereas it definitely IS the cultural belief (as well as religious) in the homelands most of our immigrants came from.

Because of our Christian heritage, culturally we are behind where we are *legally*.   Christianity still directly controls a significant portion of the population, and indirectly affects considerably more people.  1983 is hardly ancient history and before that, a man could rape his wife at will.   In certain Christian groups, he still can.  In certain secular subgroups, women are expected to submit to their husbands - which again means that a man can rape his wife.  Just check out some of the alt-right groups if you don't believe me.   

Yes, certain immigrant groups are even more entrenched in that kind of female-submission mindset, no doubt.

Edited by dialamah
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