Southern Californian in EDMONTON.

[The Terrible Sweal]

... at heart I will always be American and Albertan (not Canadian, because to me Canada means "Ontario only").

I hope Canada doesn't let in too many people with your Anti-Canadian attitude!

Anti-Americanism in Canada is real,

I wish people who say that kind of thing would once in a while offer some concrete support for it.

[daniel]

Freedom:

You're not Jake Crew are you?

[August1991]

it really is amazing, I had no idea the Westerners, and Albertans in felt that they were so hard done by until I joined this forum, I can certainly feel for some of it, I mean what would happen if Ontario kept all its revenues?

Albertans, people in BC, Newfoundlanders and people in Quebec would do quite well if Canada did not exist.

Ontario would become another Michigan, or Ohio.

I mean no harm when I state that.

[Cartman]

You can keep your weather when it even snows in what we call summer. Plus we have the Canucks.

Did I get this right Caesar? Having the Canucks is a good thing?! I never know who to cheer for in a Buffalo/Vancouver game and I used to live in Van!!

[Freedom]

In the post above, the only thing I find truly surprising is why any Califiornian would choose Edmonton weather. (Come to think of it, I don't know why anyone would choose Albertan weather, except maybe a Russian.)

Cherchez la femme. It must be true love.

REBUTTAL

please allow me to respond to that. weather isn't everything. the advantages to living in edmonton as supposed to califonia and the reason i don't mind living here is :

1) alberta's economy is awesome ! the best in Canada, and certainly the US economy looks grim these days. opportunities are abundant in alberta. and may i also mention that for a place so "cold and russian climate like", there's certainly no shortage of Ontario and Quebec license plates here ! We must be something special for the easterners to leave their nice habitats.

2) better place to raise a family, especially for younger kids. crime is low and alberta judicial system is tougher on criminals.

3) much more affordable health care here than in the states.

so it works for me, although i do spend 25% of the year in califonia still.

opps, message went right after the response to the quote

thanks

[Freedom]

... at heart I will always be American and Albertan (not Canadian, because to me Canada means "Ontario only").

I hope Canada doesn't let in too many people with your Anti-Canadian attitude!

Anti-Americanism in Canada is real,

I wish people who say that kind of thing would once in a while offer some concrete support for it.

response to both quotes.

Firstly, I am not anti-Canadian, but very much pro albertan. i didn't understand the fragile nature of the Union between Canadian federalism and its association with the provinces and territories until I arrived in the country. You suggesting that I, as an immigrant may have an anti-Canadian attitude, yet recently a certain premier from the maritimes ordered the maple leaf down, someone born in Canada. Certainly we are not that extreme in Alberta, but we do understand (and the same applies to others here in the west), that our values are not represented in Ottawa, although our finances is fair game.

Anti-Americanism- when you walk into a bar, when you're in a group having casual conversation and the subject turns to politics, its very easy to see the American bashing. I saw what people were doing with the star spangled banner during Bush's visit. The bottom line is (and I am gonna be critical of both places), most Americans are dumb enough to not even know that Canada exists North of them. And many Canadians despise that Americans might have a warmer climate, economically Canadians might feel that they are being held hostage sometimes in things like lumber dispute, mad cow etc. heck, canadians love to assemble a grand top notch hockey squad lined up by Gretzky and then just beat the heck out of the Americans- except that for the average American, hockey is no more important than washing your neighbors car !

[daniel]

Freedom: (how typical)

You've never heard of the Newfie joke? or any other joke that people from one province makes about another? I suppose when an American jokes about someone from another state, you would call him anti-American.

Well, I am quite aware of indidivual Americans who criticize France, Iraq, China, Britain, as well as Canada. You've never heard these criticisms?

I have also heard Canadians making criticism of other countries. You've never heard them? Not sure what people in other countires do but if I guess it would be reasonable to guess that they do the same

But your radar only picks up "anti-American" comments right?

[Cartman]

Certainly we are not that extreme in Alberta

No, we just put up signs advocating separation from Canada (i.e. on the #1 and #2 highways).

[Guest LLL]

=August1991,Jan 7 2005, 12:30 AM]I mean what would happen if Ontario kept all its revenues? Albertans, people in BC, Newfoundlanders and people in Quebec would do quite well if Canada did not exist.

Ontario would become another Michigan, or Ohio.

I mean no harm when I state that.

No harm done.

Considering the fact that what Aristophanes said ...

"A man's homeland is wherever he prospers"

... is a fact of life, and since Americans always were and will be more prosperous than us, what sane person wouldn't leap with joy at the opportunity of living there without even having to leave their home.

And most will, when talks of Canada joining the US become more real. One day soon, the party that cares the most about Canadians' prosperity will put joining the US at the top of their electioneering agenda, will sweep into power as noone has swept in before .... and the rest is H I S T O R Y.

[Chamuel]

Calgary or Edmonton? Which is a better place to live???

Hi. I am a US citizen living in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I've made up my mind to move to either Calgary or Edmonton, but I can't figure out which one is a nicer place to live. Would you mind sharing your opinion? (I will be renting an apartment.) Anything you can tell me to help compare the two cities would be appreciated--maybe in terms of cost of living, living conditions, temperatures, available water, how crowded they are, or ANYthing else that you think I should know about! Thanks so much.

I was a Senior in college when I met my wife to be on a southern california pier. I pursued her despite the presence of her strict parents. She was wonderful and unlike any other human being I had ever met. When she explained to me that she was from Edmonton, Canada, I had to look it up in the map later on and politely asked her if she had ever seen a computer ! Yes I was ignorant, a very ignorant American, but its hard not to be when the 50 states provides you with pretty much everything that the rest of the world has to offer in terms of material wealth.

We got married and the shocker came afterwards when she refused to live in Los angeles because "it wasn't homely like edmonton" and the daily car chasing by cops on tv on southern california scared her. we tried to compromise, looking for a middle ground. in tems of neutral weather suitable to both of us, we looked at Oregon. We didn't really like it there because she didn't have any friends and family around and it just wasn't an exciting city like Los Angeles for me. Vancouver was "very expensive for a place that didn't provide sunshine", and Calgary- well by then I had developed a liking for Edmonton, and accordingly, a cute, rivalry style dislike for Calgary. I was jealous at their flames, and that my oilers were struggling. I laughed at their road systems which seemed so disoriented and disorganized unlike Edmonton, and their lack of real parks with lots of trees and was thrilled that we had the world's biggest or second largest mall and they had crappy old ones. So i left my parents beach front home and my surf board and moved to West Edmonton, bought a decent 2000 square foot home, had 2 kids and a wonderful wife. For me, the choice wasn't as broad as Canada or the United States, but rather Los Angeles or Edmonton ?

Politically, I am a moderate. I like Northern Alberta, and although a dual citizen now, at heart I will always be American and Albertan (not Canadian, because to me Canada means "Ontario only"). In Edmonton, I have never felt unwanted, never heard a single anti-american slur. Alberta is just like home in California, and after having lived here for 5 years, I think it has a lot more in common with mainstream America than anything Canadian. I like the toughness of Ralph Klein, and the will of politicans like stephen harper.

When i turn on the cbc and hear broadcasters from Ontario, Ottawa and Quebec question America's right leaning moderates, i chuckle because the root of Canada's economic prosperity comes from the conservative west.

Anti-Americanism in Canada is real, but it has a deep liberal and NDP root attached to it, something that we can hopefully continue to expel from our beloved alberta.

I am a proud American, a proud Albertan, and the only threat that I see to cross border relations is left leaning politics from those in Ottawa. For someone who was an ignorant American, i feel that I have an above average IQ on Canadian politics than an average Canadian.

cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[fellowtraveller]

Plus we have the Canucks.

Yes, you do.

How many Stanley Cups have they won, in total?

One consolation, they haven't had 38 years of pathetic futility like the leafs.

[Boondoggle]

Shakey, in actuality Ontario DOES keep all ITS revenues.  Ontario and Quebec get all the goodies from Ottawa.  We felt the loss of income on the West Coast thanks to Ontario's failure to control SARS.  BC did control our outbreak despite being a large destination city for visitors from Asia and China.  BC did not get a expensive concert paid for nor any help for our hurting tourist industry.  When our fishing industry is shut down due to low stocks; BC does not get any subsidy.  We don't have government industries set up all over the place feeding our economy.  BC has been until the last few years a "Have" province; donating to the rest of the country.

We all feed Ontario whenever we pay taxes to the federal government which spend most of its money in Ontario and most of its offices and services are based in Ontario; paid for by ALLanadian.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you kidding me? Where do you think most of the tax payers are? The same place that most of the population is. There is a $23 billion dollar gap between what Ontario sends to Ottawa in taxes, and what it gets back in services and transfers. 40% of Canada's industry is in Ontario, and it's #1 in North America for automotive manufacturing. It is the financial heart of the country with the main stock market in Toronto, and most major companies have offices in Toronto. I'm not trying to gloat, or argue about which province is better; I'm just pointing out some facts because to say that you pay for Ontario means that you're grossly misinformed.

In fact, it's quite the opposite of you paying for Ontario. The $23 billion dollar gap is a result of an equalization program in which the money goes to those most in need, and the federal government argues that Ontario isn't in need. I agree with helping other provinces and I'm totally for a strong and united Canada, but it's really annoying to listen to people in Alberta with their flat rate 10% income tax complain about paying too much. If anything, it wouldn't hurt Alberta to carry a little more weight if the economy is going so well and give people in Ontario a little tax relief.

[tml12]

Plus we have the Canucks.

Yes, you do.

How many Stanley Cups have they won, in total?

One consolation, they haven't had 38 years of pathetic futility like the leafs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OT: I HATE THE LEAFS

[Freshinit]

Gee, I thought our economic prosperity was due to our natural ressources, not neo-conservatism. The only reason Alberta is right winged is because of our potential for oil, which attracts money hungry neo-con American businessmen. I view Albertans as an attempted cultural invasion from our neighbours to the south. If the United States can't take over our vast piles of natural ressources through military invasion, why not encourage loosened borders and free trade and culturally breed the leftists out?

The irony lies in the fact that I was born and raised in Alberta, and have never lived anywhere else in my entire life. However I think it takes an insiders opinion to really let people know the truth about a province with such an ego. Growing up in Alberta has deprived me of real culture, and exposed me to a materialistic lifestyle in which I have had to fend off with every weapon at my disposal. I am approached by some sort of christian weekly, who is keen on "saving me". My breathing is air is smoggy, for all you ontario folk; Imagine driving home in rush hour with 50 heavy duty ford 3500s excreting smoke into your lungs. Every year we have something called the Stampede in Calgary. An event that attracts cowboys from all over to come show us the latest in animal harming techniques, or how much meat they can pack onto one plate, and how much country music they can pump into your ears.

[crazymf]

Gee, I thought our economic prosperity was due to our natural ressources, not neo-conservatism. The only reason Alberta is right winged is because of our potential for oil, which attracts money hungry neo-con American businessmen. I view Albertans as an attempted cultural invasion from our neighbours to the south. If the United States can't take over our vast piles of natural ressources through military invasion, why not encourage loosened borders and free trade and culturally breed the leftists out?

The irony lies in the fact that I was born and raised in Alberta, and have never lived anywhere else in my entire life. However I think it takes an insiders opinion to really let people know the truth about a province with such an ego. Growing up in Alberta has deprived me of real culture, and exposed me to a materialistic lifestyle in which I have had to fend off with every weapon at my disposal. I am approached by some sort of christian weekly, who is keen on "saving me". My breathing is air is smoggy, for all you ontario folk; Imagine driving home in rush hour with 50 heavy duty ford 3500s excreting smoke into your lungs. Every year we have something called the Stampede in Calgary. An event that attracts cowboys from all over to come show us the latest in animal harming techniques, or how much meat they can pack onto one plate, and how much country music they can pump into your ears.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's ok guys. Every now and then we get one of these around here. Edmonton has IMT, Calgary has this person.

Most of the rest of us are true stereotypical Albertans.

[kimmy]

The irony lies in the fact that I was born and raised in Alberta, and have never lived anywhere else in my entire life.

Perhaps spending a few years living in other parts of Canada would give you some perspective. You seem to be under the illusion that the rest of Canada is free of the things that annoy you about Calgary.

However I think it takes an insiders opinion to really let people know the truth about a province with such an ego. Growing up in Alberta has deprived me of real culture, and exposed me to a materialistic lifestyle in which I have had to fend off with every weapon at my disposal.

You think materialism is limited to Calgary? You really do need to spend some time in other parts of the country.

I am approached by some sort of christian weekly, who is keen on "saving me".

If you think door-to-door proselytes are something Alberta invented, I've got news for you: they're everywhere. And if you want Christian wackos, I have never seen anything to rival the Fire of God folks in Ottawa. When I lived there, they congregated in front of the Rideau Centre Mall on Saturday afternoons with drums, placards, banners, and chanting. Wild-eyed street-preachers would rant at everybody who passed by. "Don't you leave, miss, you need to hear this." It was a little harrowing. I've honestly never seen anything like it.

My breathing is air is smoggy, for all you ontario folk; Imagine driving home in rush hour with 50 heavy duty ford 3500s excreting smoke into your lungs.

Do you think pickup trucks are any worse than SUVs for pollution?

I don't think all those Ontario folk need to be told about smog; they've got plenty of first-hand experience.

Every year we have something called the Stampede in Calgary. An event that attracts cowboys from all over to come show us the latest in animal harming techniques, or how much meat they can pack onto one plate, and how much country music they can pump into your ears.

And the kicker. The notion that while we're stuck with all these dumb-ass cowboy wannabes and low-brow tradesmen, people elsewhere are more enlightened and ejumacated. But they're not. I promise: for every cowboy wannabe you find in Calgary, you will find an urban thug wannabe in Ottawa or Vancouver. Dumb-ass punks who have modelled themselves after some fictional tough-guy lifestyle they've emulated from American music videos.

The thing is, dumb and cheap aren't just Albertan. They're coast-to-coast. You can't get away from dumb and cheap by moving to another province.

-k

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear kimmy,

dumb and cheap

Funny...that is just how I like my women....(j/k)

Even though I live in Calgary, I abhor the Stampede. Good for business, but lousy for your liver (and your sanity). About the only thing that changes from one year to the next at the Stampede is the price.

[Freshinit]

Is that your rebutal? Simply comparing the conditions I had outlined to those in other provinces? Alberta is the core base for Christianity. Albertans drive more heavy duty vehicles than other provinces. No other festival in the country glorifies meat eating, steer roping or horrid country music more than the Calgary Stampede. Albertan "culture" is merely the effects of an oil rich land. We all know how the neo-cons always make their way to the money though.

[kimmy]

Is that your rebutal? Simply comparing the conditions I had outlined to those in other provinces? Alberta is the core base for Christianity. Albertans drive more heavy duty vehicles than other provinces. No other festival in the country glorifies meat eating, steer roping or horrid country music more than the Calgary Stampede. Albertan "culture" is merely the effects of an oil rich land. We all know how the neo-cons always make their way to the money though.

You said you've never lived anywhere else. I have. My dad has had contract work that's taken my family to Calgary, Ottawa, Vancouver, and Victoria. I've lived in these places, I've attended school in these places, experienced traffic conditions and air quality and interacted with people and experienced their attitudes and outlooks.

So no, this isn't a rebutal. I'm sharing my observations.

You feel country music is horrid; I'm actually inclined to agree, but appreciation of horrid music is hardly unique to Alberta. In Ottawa you'll find widespread enthusiasm for urban thug music, which I feel makes country music seem like Beethoven by comparison. As I've said before, bad taste is coast to coast.

Is the Calgary Stampede a sophisticated event? Probably not. I can't bring myself to view it as a quality of life issue. You always have the option of, you know, not going... I'm also skeptical as to whether it's any worse than the crime-marathon that Caribana has become, in the cosmic scheme of things. Do people in Alberta enjoy meat? Yup. Elsewhere? Yup.

You complained about smog; I can tell you from experience that air-quality in Calgary is better than in Ottawa or Vancouver. And air quality in the Greater Toronto Area is just ridiculous, to the point of becoming dangerous for people with respiratory ailments. I once flew from Ottawa home to Edmonton for holidays, on a clear, sunny summer afternoon. The flight stopped at Pearson Airport in Toronto, and I thought "goody! I will get to see the CN Tower this time!" But a funny thing happened as the plane descended from the cloudless sky: it got darker. The horizon became less distinct, and finally vanished altogether. The line where the ground ended and the sky begins had become obscured by smog. I finally did spot the CN Tower, so obscured by smog that it was just a slightly darker grey in a sea of grey.

You challenged Ontarions to "Just imagine..." Well they don't need to just imagine; most of them live in much worse air than what you're breathing. Vancouver is pretty ridiculous too. 3 million car-crazed people crammed into a narrow valley surrounded by mountains. It's lousy.

You complained about materialism. Maybe you've just graduated from highschool and the perspective of a status-symbol conscious heirarchy is fresh in your mind. I promise, that mentality is not unique to schools in Calgary. It's every highschool in every city. I doubt there's been a time and place in Canadian history when people were more obsessed with material wealth than in Ottawa of about 5-6 years ago.

You complained about Christians trying to "save you". As I said, there are proselytes all over; moving away from Alberta won't spare you from that. My personal experience was that they were more visible in Ottawa, but perhaps that was just because I lived closer to downtown. As I mentioned, I've never encountered anything like Ottawa's "Fire of God" nutjobs.

You complained that living in Calgary has deprived you of "real culture." I'm struggling to grasp what this "real culture" you're seeking is. I'd suggest that living in Calgary has deprived you of the chance to experience the extent to which people in your age group in other parts of the country have adopted American thug culture as their own. Calgary has fake cowboys, other places have fake gangstas. If you're interested in museums and galleries and so on, plan a visit to Ottawa. Make sure you visit the Museum of Civilization in Hull, the National Art Gallery, take a tour the Parliament buildings. It's good to see all those things once in your life. (And once is probably about as many times as most Ottawanians have toured those things, too.)

You seem to be under the illusion that people elsewhere are smarter, more sophisticated, more cultured. In my experience that's just not the case. People are on average pretty dumb from coast to coast. People embrace trash from coast to coast; the only variable is the kind of trash they favor. But don't take my word for it. You said you're 18; you're probably going to university now or will be soon. So try going to university in some other part of the country. Experience the country. If you believe life in Toronto or Vancouver would be better, then give it a try. Live the dream. Maybe you'll find it's to your liking. Trying new things in other parts of the country has to be better than sitting at home in Calgary imagining that people are better elswhere.

-k

[Yodeler]

You said you've never lived anywhere else.  I have. My dad has had contract work that's  taken my family to Calgary, Ottawa, Vancouver, and Victoria. I've lived in these places, I've attended school in these places, experienced traffic conditions and air quality.

I can tell you from experience that air-quality in Calgary is better than in Vancouver.  -k

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice post!

The only thing that I find a bit hard to believe is that "air-quality in Calgary is better than in Vancouver".

Had you said "Greater Vancouver", I'd say OK, but Vancouver?

Are you sure about that?

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear kimmy,

An excellent post indeed. Perhaps Yodeler

The only thing that I find a bit hard to believe is that "air-quality in Calgary is better than in Vancouver".

Had you said "Greater Vancouver", I'd say OK, but Vancouver?

Are you sure about that?

is saying that Vancouver has a higher quality pot smoke in the air???

[Freshinit]

Kimmy,

I guess when I say Calgary is lacking culture I mean it's lacking historical significance. I am sitting down in December to apply to various universities. My hope is to major in political sciences somewhere out east, prefferably Ottawa.

[tml12]

Kimmy,

I guess when I say Calgary is lacking culture I mean it's lacking historical significance. I am sitting down in December to apply to various universities. My hope is to major in political sciences somewhere out east, prefferably Ottawa.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When you come East you may feel that your "Liberal values" are tested.

What is certain is that you will be in a more Liberal Party-friendly culture, especially if you are in Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, or Halifax.

You will eventually make a political decision that is best for you, though remember that you may change your mind several times along the course of your life.

[Minimus Maximus]

Gee, I thought our economic prosperity was due to our natural ressources, not neo-conservatism. The only reason Alberta is right winged is because of our potential for oil, which attracts money hungry neo-con American businessmen. I view Albertans as an attempted cultural invasion from our neighbours to the south. If the United States can't take over our vast piles of natural ressources through military invasion, why not encourage loosened borders and free trade and culturally breed the leftists out?

The irony lies in the fact that I was born and raised in Alberta, and have never lived anywhere else in my entire life. However I think it takes an insiders opinion to really let people know the truth about a province with such an ego. Growing up in Alberta has deprived me of real culture, and exposed me to a materialistic lifestyle in which I have had to fend off with every weapon at my disposal. I am approached by some sort of christian weekly, who is keen on "saving me". My breathing is air is smoggy, for all you ontario folk; Imagine driving home in rush hour with 50 heavy duty ford 3500s excreting smoke into your lungs. Every year we have something called the Stampede in Calgary. An event that attracts cowboys from all over to come show us the latest in animal harming techniques, or how much meat they can pack onto one plate, and how much country music they can pump into your ears.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This post is the proof in the pudding that even today the education system still fails to teach our young anything meaningful about the region in which they live.

You can't seriously believe that Alberta is right wing because of oil, have you ever heard of the Social Credit Party? do you know that this party came into existance well before Leduc#1 was every contemplated? The Social Credit Party was very right wing and came onto the Albertan political scene around the 1930's, the first oil strike in Alberta was around 1945-1948. Please do some research about your home province before spouting off like this. Youthful ideology is only valid if it is tempered with knowledge of the subject you wish to debate.

As far as being taken over by neo-con American businessmen, I have to wonder how many oil/gas company CEO's you have rubbed shoulders with in your 18 years? I have been in this industry for about 25 years now and have dealt with many people of high ranking, the majority have been Canadian. The US is a major player in the industry, I am pretty sure that they play a major part in the auto manufacturing industry in Ontario as well.

If you don't like the smog in Calgary then please try Toronto. I love this city for the cultural events it offers, but could not live there because of the air quality (and as kimmy pointed out, the wanna be gangsta's). If you don't like the city move to rural Alberta.

As far as the Stampede goes... if you don't like it and are a vegitarian then stay at home rent a movie and have a salad. More cow for me and my friends.Mooooo

[Guest eureka]

Social Credit was also strong in a left of centre way in Quebec. It was not necessarily just a right wing party but a party with a funny view of economic matters.