Global Warming

[maplesyrup]

A right-winger attacks global warming

I suppose we will have to wait for a major catastophic event for the few remaining people to be convinced. Kinda reminds me of the people who don't believe in dinasaurs either, eh!

Of course a lot of the people who post here at mapleleafweb remind me of the dinasaurs as well.

Michael Crichton's new novel, "State of Fear," not only unfairly bashes the global environmental movement but represents yet another example of how multinational corporations and their political allies are invading the popular culture to advance fanatic and lunatic right-wing ideas and agendas.

The book demonizes scientists who argue that the world is heading toward cataclysmic weather change unless something is done about the spewing forth of greenhouse gases into Earth's atmosphere.

Crichton develops a story line that has environmentalists and scientists creating weather-making doomsday machines that wreak havoc on the planet.

Killer hurricanes, towering tidal waves and destructive lightning storms are all meant to prove the scientists' point about the deadly effects of global warming. The environmentalists are the villains. The corporate shills who have been paid big bucks to debunk the global warming community are the good guys. According to Crichton, global warming is a myth.

In today's world of increasing corporate control of almost every facet of our public and private lives, Crichton's screed against the environmental movement should come as no great surprise.

After all, the publisher of "State of Fear" is Harper Collins, a wholly owned subsidiary of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp., the same people who feed Americans and people around the world a daily dosage of right-wing propaganda billed as 24-hour news.

Crichton is no different than crossword puzzle editors who are now paid to include as answers to their clues the names of corporations and brand names as a form of subtle advertising -- a new low in the newspaper business.

It is obvious that Murdoch will eventually have his Fox movie arm put Crichton's global eco-terrorism conspiracy tale on the big screen to counteract the climate change warning conveyed by Roland Emmerich's global disaster flick "The Day After Tomorrow."

Crichton's book, perhaps not coincidentally, comes at a time the Bush administration is blowing off the Arctic meltdown concerns raised in the Arctic Climate Change Assessment initiated by regional Arctic nations and native tribal peoples.

[Slavik44]

A right-winger attacks global warming

I suppose we will have to wait for a major catastophic event for the few remaining people to be convinced. Kinda reminds me of the people who don't believe in dinasaurs either, eh!

Of course a lot of the people who post here at mapleleafweb remind me of the dinasaurs as well.

Michael Crichton's new novel, "State of Fear," not only unfairly bashes the global environmental movement but represents yet another example of how multinational corporations and their political allies are invading the popular culture to advance fanatic and lunatic right-wing ideas and agendas.

The book demonizes scientists who argue that the world is heading toward cataclysmic weather change unless something is done about the spewing forth of greenhouse gases into Earth's atmosphere.

Crichton develops a story line that has environmentalists and scientists creating weather-making doomsday machines that wreak havoc on the planet.

Killer hurricanes, towering tidal waves and destructive lightning storms are all meant to prove the scientists' point about the deadly effects of global warming. The environmentalists are the villains. The corporate shills who have been paid big bucks to debunk the global warming community are the good guys. According to Crichton, global warming is a myth.

In today's world of increasing corporate control of almost every facet of our public and private lives, Crichton's screed against the environmental movement should come as no great surprise.

After all, the publisher of "State of Fear" is Harper Collins, a wholly owned subsidiary of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp., the same people who feed Americans and people around the world a daily dosage of right-wing propaganda billed as 24-hour news.

Crichton is no different than crossword puzzle editors who are now paid to include as answers to their clues the names of corporations and brand names as a form of subtle advertising -- a new low in the newspaper business.

It is obvious that Murdoch will eventually have his Fox movie arm put Crichton's global eco-terrorism conspiracy tale on the big screen to counteract the climate change warning conveyed by Roland Emmerich's global disaster flick "The Day After Tomorrow."

Crichton's book, perhaps not coincidentally, comes at a time the Bush administration is blowing off the Arctic meltdown concerns raised in the Arctic Climate Change Assessment initiated by regional Arctic nations and native tribal peoples.

So do you just want to throw insults around or was there something of value you wanted to say in this thread.

[maplesyrup]

slavik44....I see you are starting off the new year with the same approach you leftoff during the last year. Nothing of any significance to contribute. You and the other right wingers might gain some credibility here if you had something of consequence to say. Too bad you don't.

Obviosly our younger generations are concerned for their future and we adults ignore the significant issues at their peril. What a legacy we are leaving for our children and grandchildren. Pitiful!

[ticker]

"slavik44....I see you are starting off the new year with the same approach you leftoff during the last year"

the real question is MS still 1 stike away from being banned for his bad language or has the moderator let him start new for the year with 3 strikes to go in the bad language department.

[Guest LLL]

Kinda reminds me of the people who don't believe in dinosaurs either, eh!

Of course a lot of the people who post here at mapleleafweb remind me of the dinosaurs as well. 

Here's another dinosaurian piece for you to read. One from Dec.19th.

The other two are no slouches either.

ENJOY!

http://www.suntimes.com/index/steyn.html

[Argus]

slavik44....I see you are starting off the new year with the same approach you leftoff during the last year. Nothing of any significance to contribute. You and the other right wingers might gain some credibility here if you had something of consequence to say. Too bad you don't.

You start a thread based on the rants of a screwball "journalist" who apparently doesn't like Michael Chricton's new book, and cast sneering abuse on anyone who is "right wing", and then you have the gall to accuse someone else of having nothing significant to contribute?

Maybe you should go back to trying to ban trucks on the highways or registering butter knifes.

[Stoker]

Though I won't bother wasting my time reponding to MS, I'll respond to this part of the "story":

After all, the publisher of "State of Fear" is Harper Collins, a wholly owned subsidiary of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp., the same people who feed Americans and people around the world a daily dosage of right-wing propaganda billed as 24-hour news.

Crichton is no different than crossword puzzle editors who are now paid to include as answers to their clues the names of corporations and brand names as a form of subtle advertising -- a new low in the newspaper business.

It is obvious that Murdoch will eventually have his Fox movie arm put Crichton's global eco-terrorism conspiracy tale on the big screen to counteract the climate change warning conveyed by Roland Emmerich's global disaster flick "The Day After Tomorrow."

Crichton's book, perhaps not coincidentally, comes at a time the Bush administration is blowing off the Arctic meltdown concerns raised in the Arctic Climate Change Assessment initiated by regional Arctic nations and native tribal peoples.

Who distributed the movie "The Day After Tomorrow"?

Three letter word.

Shares the name of a small carnivorous mammal, that is in the dog and wolf family.........

If thats not enough, I'll spot you the first and last letter in the name:

F*X

[B. Max]

A right-winger attacks global warming

One can not attack something that does not exist. They merely expose the myth of global warming which was concieved in the outer edges of the leftwing lunatic fringe, a cesspool of corruption known as the UN. The purpose this scam being to transfer jobs and wealth from the west to the despot run, and failed socialist backwaters of the world. A scheme far larger than the oil for palaces racket that they've recently been caught at.

[ceemes]

A right-winger attacks global warming

One can not attack something that does not exist. They merely expose the myth of global warming which was concieved in the outer edges of the leftwing lunatic fringe, a cesspool of corruption known as the UN. The purpose this scam being to transfer jobs and wealth from the west to the despot run, and failed socialist backwaters of the world. A scheme far larger than the oil for palaces racket that they've recently been caught at.

Right.......and the moon is made of green cheese.......

Baby, global warming is a FACT pure and simple. Winters for the most part are cooler, less snow is falling, hell I drove to Penticton to visit my mother for Christmas, and there was bugger all snow on the mountains and the roads were bone dry all the way there. This is very unusual for this time of the year and does not bode well for the up coming summer forest fire season in BC.

But go ahead, continue denying the evidence, burn fossile fuels like there is no tomorrow, consume and spend at an ever increasing rate.....after all, you probably only have between 40 to 60 years left in your alloted lifespan and should be dead before the real hardcore impacts of global warming hit.

[B. Max]

A right-winger attacks global warming

One can not attack something that does not exist. They merely expose the myth of global warming which was concieved in the outer edges of the leftwing lunatic fringe, a cesspool of corruption known as the UN. The purpose this scam being to transfer jobs and wealth from the west to the despot run, and failed socialist backwaters of the world. A scheme far larger than the oil for palaces racket that they've recently been caught at.

Right.......and the moon is made of green cheese.......

Baby, global warming is a FACT pure and simple. Winters for the most part are cooler, less snow is falling, hell I drove to Penticton to visit my mother for Christmas, and there was bugger all snow on the mountains and the roads were bone dry all the way there. This is very unusual for this time of the year and does not bode well for the up coming summer forest fire season in BC.

But go ahead, continue denying the evidence, burn fossile fuels like there is no tomorrow, consume and spend at an ever increasing rate.....after all, you probably only have between 40 to 60 years left in your alloted lifespan and should be dead before the real hardcore impacts of global warming hit.

Right.......and the moon is made of green cheese.......

Yes, no doubt caused by global warming.

Fact, there is no global warming which is born out by the historical temperature records. Not by your little trip through the mountains which means nothing.

There is not the slightest evidence, never mind proof that fossile fuels have any effect what so ever. Of course you refer to the co2 scare tactics of the junk science crowd. Who fail to inform people that co2 makes up about 2% of all greenhouse gases. With water vapor being the most prevalent of all. That sure doesn't bode well for using hydrogen for fuel. Putting all that greenhouse gas in the air might cause global warming.

[ceemes]

A right-winger attacks global warming

One can not attack something that does not exist. They merely expose the myth of global warming which was concieved in the outer edges of the leftwing lunatic fringe, a cesspool of corruption known as the UN. The purpose this scam being to transfer jobs and wealth from the west to the despot run, and failed socialist backwaters of the world. A scheme far larger than the oil for palaces racket that they've recently been caught at.

Right.......and the moon is made of green cheese.......

Baby, global warming is a FACT pure and simple. Winters for the most part are cooler, less snow is falling, hell I drove to Penticton to visit my mother for Christmas, and there was bugger all snow on the mountains and the roads were bone dry all the way there. This is very unusual for this time of the year and does not bode well for the up coming summer forest fire season in BC.

But go ahead, continue denying the evidence, burn fossile fuels like there is no tomorrow, consume and spend at an ever increasing rate.....after all, you probably only have between 40 to 60 years left in your alloted lifespan and should be dead before the real hardcore impacts of global warming hit.

Right.......and the moon is made of green cheese.......

Yes, no doubt caused by global warming.

Fact, there is no global warming which is born out by the historical temperature records. Not by your little trip through the mountains which means nothing.

There is not the slightest evidence, never mind proof that fossile fuels have any effect what so ever. Of course you refer to the co2 scare tactics of the junk science crowd. Who fail to inform people that co2 makes up about 2% of all greenhouse gases. With water vapor being the most prevalent of all. That sure doesn't bode well for using hydrogen for fuel. Putting all that greenhouse gas in the air might cause global warming.

Jr, not all that long ago, Lake Okanagon would freeze solid in the winter. They used loaded rail barges as ice breakers to create a passage, and when the ice was too thick, they blasted it with dynamite....that was the norm......except in the past three decaded, that lake has not froze...indeed, you are lucky to get freezing along the shoreline.

But please, keep denying the evidence......like I said, you most likely will be dead and cold before the full impact hits us....pity your grandchildren and their kids will have to pay the price.

[Shakeyhands]

Yup... I can remember when we got alot of snow in Ontario year after year, there certainly is something going on with the Climate here...

and boy oh boy do the right wingers like to jump on MS.

[ceemes]

and boy oh boy do the right wingers like to jump on MS.

Not just right wingers, but also left wingers and centralist such as myself.....sadly MS seems to be on the far far left wing at times...as evidence with his posting re Banning Trucks and Registering Knives....you have to admit......those were really really loopy.

[Guest eureka]

Perhaps you should read a little more about the water vapour and why it is trapped.

Keep it up MS. The lemmings will go their way and these idiots will follow Bush to the bitter end - or until the oceans are covering their favourite beaches.

[B. Max]

A right-winger attacks global warming

One can not attack something that does not exist. They merely expose the myth of global warming which was concieved in the outer edges of the leftwing lunatic fringe, a cesspool of corruption known as the UN. The purpose this scam being to transfer jobs and wealth from the west to the despot run, and failed socialist backwaters of the world. A scheme far larger than the oil for palaces racket that they've recently been caught at.

Right.......and the moon is made of green cheese.......

Baby, global warming is a FACT pure and simple. Winters for the most part are cooler, less snow is falling, hell I drove to Penticton to visit my mother for Christmas, and there was bugger all snow on the mountains and the roads were bone dry all the way there. This is very unusual for this time of the year and does not bode well for the up coming summer forest fire season in BC.

But go ahead, continue denying the evidence, burn fossile fuels like there is no tomorrow, consume and spend at an ever increasing rate.....after all, you probably only have between 40 to 60 years left in your alloted lifespan and should be dead before the real hardcore impacts of global warming hit.

Right.......and the moon is made of green cheese.......

Yes, no doubt caused by global warming.

Fact, there is no global warming which is born out by the historical temperature records. Not by your little trip through the mountains which means nothing.

There is not the slightest evidence, never mind proof that fossile fuels have any effect what so ever. Of course you refer to the co2 scare tactics of the junk science crowd. Who fail to inform people that co2 makes up about 2% of all greenhouse gases. With water vapor being the most prevalent of all. That sure doesn't bode well for using hydrogen for fuel. Putting all that greenhouse gas in the air might cause global warming.

Jr, not all that long ago, Lake Okanagon would freeze solid in the winter. They used loaded rail barges as ice breakers to create a passage, and when the ice was too thick, they blasted it with dynamite....that was the norm......except in the past three decaded, that lake has not froze...indeed, you are lucky to get freezing along the shoreline.

But please, keep denying the evidence......like I said, you most likely will be dead and cold before the full impact hits us....pity your grandchildren and their kids will have to pay the price.

Well pops perhaps you have become challenged in your elderly years. The nearest historical records to that area in davenport washington indicated a slight cooling since 1940 as do the overall records. A time when echo whaco's claim global warming. Something they've been unable to prove.

http://www.john-daly.com/stations/davnport.gif

http://www.john-daly.com/usa-1999.gif

[B. Max]

Yup... I can remember when we got alot of snow in Ontario year after year, there certainly is something going on with the Climate here...

and boy oh boy do the right wingers like to jump on MS.

This wouldn't be another susuki story would it. The lefties sure like that junkscience.

http://www.john-daly.com/stations/suzuki.htm

[B. Max]

Perhaps you should read a little more about the water vapour and why it is trapped.

Keep it up MS. The lemmings will go their way and these idiots will follow Bush to the bitter end - or until the oceans are covering their favourite beaches.

What does that have to do with percentages, and while you're at it please tell the class what the socalled global warming has to do with the earthquake and resulting tsunamis. At best it is the worst of the left and their attempt to score political milage at the expense of people suffering a natural disaster.

[Slavik44]

slavik44....I see you are starting off the new year with the same approach you leftoff during  the last year. Nothing of any significance to contribute.  You and the other right wingers might gain some credibility here if you had something of consequence to say. Too bad you don't.

Obviosly our younger generations are concerned for their future and we adults ignore the significant issues at their peril. What a legacy we are leaving for our children and grandchildren. Pitiful!

some credibility? Cut the crap Ms you are probabley the least credible person on these forums. As for off topic banter, judging by your posts and your responses to the contributions of other people to these forums you are also one of the biggest contributors to that. But my appologies for nto swearign at people, calling them names, makeing baseless accusations, and inserting words into peoples mouth, I will try to improve my behavoir, by calling you a worthless Communist atleast two times a week.

[August1991]

Yup...  I can remember when we got alot of snow in Ontario year after year, there certainly is something going on with the Climate here...

and boy oh boy do the right wingers like to jump on MS.

It is precisely such evidence that removes any credibility from the environmental argument. Any measure of temperature change must be broad both in time and geography. Regional and annual variations are too large.

Since Dennis Meadows' Limits to Growth (heck, since Rachel Carson and Thomas Malthus), various people have predicted the End of Civilization as We Know It.

The Leftist slant to these claims is interesting.

Some on the Left are Robin Hoods: steal from the rich, give to the poor.

But there are some other Leftists who simply want to see the whole thing go up in smoke: Pol Pot, self-loathers, anti-everything. IME, these latter Leftists are often the granola green types.

Malthus? I sense the kids have cried wolf too often.

----

With all that said, there is no doubt that, in theory, the Greenhouse Effect exists. The Sun heats the Earth like a microwave oven. The Earth radiates heat like a toaster.

It is true that Kyoto is much less about the environment and much more about stealing from the rich, primarily the US. (Kyoto exempts China and India and locks in Germany and Eastern Europe at Soviet emission levels.)

Lastly, nobody owns the world's air and the world's oceans. In a world made rich through ownership traded in markets with prices, this remarkable lack of ownership is a recipe for catastrophe.

Too much of our world is an open dumping ground.

[Slavik44]

Jr, not all that long ago, Lake Okanagon would freeze solid in the winter. They used loaded rail barges as ice breakers to create a passage, and when the ice was too thick, they blasted it with dynamite....that was the norm......except in the past three decaded, that lake has not froze...indeed, you are lucky to get freezing along the shoreline.

But please, keep denying the evidence......like I said, you most likely will be dead and cold before the full impact hits us....pity your grandchildren and their kids will have to pay the price.

The lake hasn't frozen over I must be responsible right?

Is that what this si all about the lack hasn't frozen over and some people who once had water front properrties with a dock now have to walk a couple of feet to get to the water? But then why is that my fault? why is that our fault? Atleast when chicken little told us the sky was falling he didn't say it was our fault. But the mor eI look at the chicken little/sky is falling scenario the more I see the Global warming situation. I will not lie to you and tell you the earth isn't getting warmer it is, but it doesn;t mean Humans caused. Infact human contribution to green hosue gases in the environment is less then 0.3%,

of the 186 billion tons of CO2 that enter the earth atmosphere every year 6 billion of that comes from human activities. Today Global temperatures sit around the same as the did between the year A.D 1000 and 1350 if global warming was caused by humans why do environmentalists have to tell us that the Earth hasn't been this warm in thousands of years? Clearly the earth is warming but this isn't neccasarily an unnatural thing, it has happend, we just have not expirenced this before. Lets face it when a tsunami hit greece thousands of years ago, it may not have been posiedans fault, and when Mount Vesuvius well I don't know what God got the bad rap for that one but it now turns out the he may be cleared of the charges against him. But despite todays so called advanced technology and peoples higher intellegence and education we are still lookign to blame events that we don't understand on something, while we know with fair certinity that posieden wasn't at fault the other week in south east asia, when we see temperatures rising and lacks ceasing to freeze over who do we blame? Thats right Capilalismo the God of all that is evil an ancester of Hades. As I am looking at a line graph of the history of world temperatures for the past 800 thousand years, I notice that the earths temperatures go both up and then down I see ten Major peaks on this graph and we look to be slightly below the peak from about 100,000 thousand years ago, back in the early days of the internal combustion engine right?

[I miss Reagan]

I just finished reading the book this past weekend. An excellent book I highly recommend reading. Of course it's a fictional story but the dialogue between characters is backed up by solid references. What I think is sad, is how we're fed over and over this false science by people with an agenda. Even worse, the book exposes the damage to the environment that radical environmentalists cause the environment. What makes these types of books appear even more valid are the ad hominem attacks on their authors rather than refuting their arguments. A tactic often used by radicals like David Suzuki.

[Pateris]

The fact of the matter is that the current debate on climate change is based on two key pieces of information:

1. There is evidence that the climate is changing.

Spring arrives earlier in the arctic than it did 20, 40 or 100 years ago. The ice packs are melting (in some places), although they are not in others (for instance, the ice in the western arctic of Canada is melting, but less is changing in the eastern arctic). It is very hard for anyone to deny the climate IS changing, albeit slightly.

2. The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is rising

This is well established. It is also well established at this point that the level of CO2 dissolved in the oceans is rising as well. This makes sense because the higher partial pressure in the atmosphere will increase the equilibrium concentration in the water.

Considering our use of fossil fuels, it is not unlikely that human activity has had something to do with this change.

What has NOT however been proven is that there is a CAUSAL link from #2 to #1. Yes, the climate models say that #2 would cause #1, but the climate models are not 100% accurate. For instance, none of the climate models are actually able to predict the 20th century... for which we know the result.

However, I think the more fundamental questions are not whether or not humanity is the primary cause of climate change:

Q1: Would any action at all by humanity result in a difference in result?

Q2. Is humanity actually willing to do what would be necessary to SIGNIFICANTLY change our societies?

The answer to Q1 is essentially unknowable. But the answer to Q2 is likely No, simply because a signficant change is too large given the "small risk" and because the viable solutions are not seen as good alternatives.

[I miss Reagan]

There is evidence that the climate is changing but hardly the extent to which environmentalists would have us believe. It's the exageration and omission of contrary evidence that is so disheartening about the environmental movement. I think it's true that these 'doomsday' people harm the movement by turning people off. People don't like being lied to.

[Guest eureka]

This is an "argument" that I will never have again. Frankly, I would like ti take all the murderous b+++tds that deny warming out and hang them. The world is facing catastrophe of a scope that will dwarf the tsunamis in extent. The lives that will be lost are uncountable and the future of the human race itself will be in peril.

Yet, the complacent fools think they can play politics or talk about the economy.

As for the crassness of responses such as that that suggested I was making a link between warming and the recent earthquake! Well, what hope for humanity is there anyway when that level of intelligence is allowed to sit behind a computer.

A nephew of mine is the co-author of a paper (available on the Web) on the degradation of coral reefs due to CO2. He is appalled at the response of the deniers. He is also a world expert on earthquakes and a number of things that fall in his area that are not the domain of climatologists but that put him in daily contact with the effects of climate.

What he says in private but, being a scientist, does not say in public, would burn holes in the heads of the greedy and the stupid who will not see. I wish that he and some other scientists would learn he ways of the business lackeys who, though few in number, have the wealth of political lobying and advertisers on their side.

[caesar]

Of course our atmosphere and world is suffering many different types of problems caused by man. Could you drive through LA and deny pollution. Even our Fraser Valley has problems with pollution of the air and water.

The oceans are being polluted; fish are being over fished.

Most of the problems are caused by big companies with poor manufacturing techniques that ooze out pollution . Warring governments from countries that test and use nuclear weapons or with uranium depleted or not are another large source. No one can deny the holes in the ozone layer are getting larger. I think there is a large iceberg in Antarctica that has broke off and that is causing problems.