Israel's Discriminatory so-called Justice System

[betsy]

3 hours ago, WIP said:

You're Israeli allies! And your racism is as offensive as your complete ignorance of history!

Well? 

 

Quote

 

Abbas: We'll Never Sign Deal Demanding Recognition of Israel as Jewish State

"Just as the Palestinians expect us to recognize their state, we expect reciprocal treatment," said Netanyahu.

 

https://www.haaretz.com/1.5126122

[WIP]

23 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

No, maybe it is your ignorance of history. I am not certainly an Israeli ally as my posting history shows in THIS thread however, history shows a very violent brutal invasion to their West and East centuries ago by a certain race (i don't name the race so that I am not accused of being racist) residing in today's Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Jordan resulting in destruction of many civilizations. The invasion resulted in cultural oblitration and one based on the fact that after conquer everything belong to them including women. What d you expect these people will do to Israelis when they massacre their own people (Assad, Saddam and others). Israel has the right to defend itself against violence and oblitration intended by extremists.

Hard to figure out what your point is here except that you believe that Arabs are incorrigibly violent and savage...which raises the question: why would anyone want to move in and lay claim to one of their territories? 

And you are an Israeli apologist..whether you want to admit it or not, because you're also claiming the State of Israel is the target of aggression/rather than the source of aggression against others. Raising the names of Arab dictators doesn't support your claim...it's just throwing crap at the wall to hide the fact that international law and standards gives the subjects of enclosure and forced removal from their land the right to try to defend themselves/not the oppressors who seize other peoples' lands...regardless of whether they do it in a single swoop or piecemeal actions like in the West Bank.

 

[CITIZEN_2015]

32 minutes ago, WIP said:

Hard to figure out what your point is here except that you believe that Arabs are incorrigibly violent and savage...which raises the question: why would anyone want to move in and lay claim to one of their territories? 

And you are an Israeli apologist..whether you want to admit it or not, because you're also claiming the State of Israel is the target of aggression/rather than the source of aggression against others. Raising the names of Arab dictators doesn't support your claim...it's just throwing crap at the wall to hide the fact that international law and standards gives the subjects of enclosure and forced removal from their land the right to try to defend themselves/not the oppressors who seize other peoples' lands...regardless of whether they do it in a single swoop or piecemeal actions like in the West Bank.

 

Your post has ignored the purpose of my comment you quoted which was to make an argument that a tiny 8 million nation of Israelis are surrounded by very bitter historically proven violent and conquering people who always invaded and destroyed (read the history books that is if you can read), and imposed their culture upon captured nations. No wonder after making close to 5000 post you only have ONE single reputation point and I wonder who was the single one who gave you that single reputation point!!!!!.

Edited May 29, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

[WIP]

23 hours ago, betsy said:

Well? 

 

https://www.haaretz.com/1.5126122

Consider that a nation can either be an ethno-religious state or a democracy, but can't claim to be both!  "Jewish and democratic state"

That's why most nations that have forged identities out of specific ethno-nationalist pasts have the same dilemma when they claim to be democracies that recognize all citizen's rights. The "Jewish" state cannot accord equal rights to non-Jewish Israelis for this reason, so Israeli Arabs, including Muslims, Druze, Christians etc., let alone the growing population of unrecognized Israeli migrant workers cannot achieve equal rights.

And Abbas, who has long been subject of suspicion as a sellout to the majority of Palestinians, is well aware of the extra baggage that Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders have piled on their "Jewish state" claim, most notably that Jerusalem cannot be divided or negotiated as a shared capital of a Palestinian state. 

The alternative to Jewish states and Palestinian states would be a secular state where everyone's rights are recognized...but the continual influx of foreign Jews as instant Israelis/corresponding to the expulsion of native Arabs makes the hopes of a one state solution more and more remote: 

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/04/201344840244399.html

 

[WIP]

4 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Your post has ignored the purpose of my comment you quoted which was to make an argument that a tiny 8 million nation of Israelis are surrounded by very bitter historically proven violent and conquering people who always invaded and destroyed (read the history books that is if you can read), and imposed their culture upon captured nations. No wonder after making close to 5000 post you only have ONE single reputation point and I wonder who was the single one who gave you that single reputation point!!!!!.

No, first you need to prove that endlessly repeated historical narrative, since it doesn't match with real historical facts such as the unbroken legacy of Jewish populations in Jerusalem and the surrounding areas, as well as usually peaceful coexistence between Christian and Muslim communities. 

So when you just import large numbers of outsiders from Europe who push out local populations (look up the Irgun and Menachem Begin etc.) for more foreign Jews to move in, do you expect the welcome mat to get rolled out?

[CITIZEN_2015]

40 minutes ago, WIP said:

No, first you need to prove that endlessly repeated historical narrative, since it doesn't match with real historical facts such as the unbroken legacy of Jewish populations in Jerusalem and the surrounding areas, as well as usually peaceful coexistence between Christian and Muslim communities. 

So when you just import large numbers of outsiders from Europe who push out local populations (look up the Irgun and Menachem Begin etc.) for more foreign Jews to move in, do you expect the welcome mat to get rolled out?

You started your post with denying a historical fact that Arabs invaded east and west and captured territories belonging to long standing civilizations like Egyptions and Persians among others and set fire to libraries and forcefully imposed their own culture. Once you so blatantly deny this historic fact then you totally discredit yourself as an unbiased poster and nobody would believe you no matter what else you say in the rest of your post and infact all your posts become worthless even though what you say in the second half of your post is somewhat true. 

Edited May 29, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 hours ago, WIP said:

And you are an Israeli apologist..whether you want to admit it or not,

Geez this is new. Something I never expected to be called. Before I was called many things like a muslim fanatic, an ISIS supporter, An Iran regime supporter, a leftist and now this!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder what would be next. a zionist?

Edited May 29, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

[betsy]

11 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Geez this is new. Something I never expected to be called. Before I was called many things like a muslim fanatic, an ISIS supporter, An Iran regime supporter, a leftist and now this!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder what would be next. a zionist?

Being labelled - that means he must be scraping the bottom of his barrel.   If you're a known Christian, the Jesus card will be up soon. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

On 5/28/2018 at 12:14 PM, WIP said:

And the rightwing zionist talking point used to justify shooting demonstrators, doctors and even at children through a chainlink fence, is to claim Hamas is using them as human shields again. Rightwingers like Betsy, who soak up this propaganda would have blamed Martin Luther King and other church leaders for the police assault on the Edmund Pettis Bridge more than a century ago by this logic!

 

Quote

 

15 hours ago, WIP said:

And you are an Israeli apologist..whether you want to admit it or not,

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

On 5/28/2018 at 12:15 PM, WIP said:

You're Israeli allies! And your racism is as offensive as your complete ignorance of history!

 

Just because you claim I'm "ignorant" of history,  doesn't really mean, and it doesn't  show you know history........or, understand logical reasoning!

 

Since your pathetic rebuttals are nothing but putting labels.........I say you're more than a Muslim apologist.  You are an Islamist terrorist sympathizer!  Maybe, even a collaborator!  Admit it.  

Heck, you could be their grand Imam for all I know.

Edited May 30, 2018 by betsy

[WIP]

On 5/29/2018 at 3:43 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

You started your post with denying a historical fact that Arabs invaded east and west and captured territories belonging to long standing civilizations like Egyptions and Persians among others and set fire to libraries and forcefully imposed their own culture. Once you so blatantly deny this historic fact then you totally discredit yourself as an unbiased poster and nobody would believe you no matter what else you say in the rest of your post and infact all your posts become worthless even though what you say in the second half of your post is somewhat true. 

And those "civilizations" didn't kill, enslave and push others off the land to claim those empires? 

The Arab and later mostly Turkish Muslims who built the caliphates, are not the same Arabs and Turks who live today, who do not claim/nor want to belong to an empire-religious nor secular!  Should we judge Italians by what the Roman Empire did two millennia ago? 

More recent empires...like the American Empire, are still functioning and running by the same standards today that they were founded with. Same with the settler/colonial state of Israel...which has no legacy going back more than 150 years! 

[WIP]

On 5/29/2018 at 6:25 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Geez this is new. Something I never expected to be called. Before I was called many things like a muslim fanatic, an ISIS supporter, An Iran regime supporter, a leftist and now this!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder what would be next. a zionist?

You declared that Israel has a right to the land or most of the land they've laid claim to. What do you consider an Israeli apologist?  

[CITIZEN_2015]

2 hours ago, WIP said:

And those "civilizations" didn't kill, enslave and push others off the land to claim those empires? 

The Arab and later mostly Turkish Muslims who built the caliphates, are not the same Arabs and Turks who live today, who do not claim/nor want to belong to an empire-religious nor secular!  Should we judge Italians by what the Roman Empire did two millennia ago? 

More recent empires...like the American Empire, are still functioning and running by the same standards today that they were founded with. Same with the settler/colonial state of Israel...which has no legacy going back more than 150 years! 

As far as I know the Persians stood for equality and justice for all. The very first Charter of Human Rights was brought in by Cyrus the great some 2500 years ago.

http://www.persepolis.nu/persepolis-cyrus.htm

 And later a Persian king freed Jews from Egyption slavery which shows that Egyptions did indeed kill and enslave.

But even now the Arabs of today are still invaders. Then who were Iraqis who invaded Iran in 1980??? They were Jews? Or what Assad is doing to his own people (violence) or Iraqis or Lenanese are/were doing to each other. Italians (Romans) did bad deeds but now they do not anymore. So that is the difference.

[CITIZEN_2015]

2 hours ago, WIP said:

You declared that Israel has a right to the land or most of the land they've laid claim to. What do you consider an Israeli apologist?  

I said they have the right to exist within the recognized borders of Israel. I do not recognize the settlements. I have also in the past repeatedly condemned Israeli army criminal actions against defenseless Palestinian women and children. I am an unbiased poster who sees both sides of the strories and not commenting in a biased one sided manner.

Edited May 31, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

[eyeball]

On 5/30/2018 at 2:49 AM, betsy said:

Being labelled - that means he must be scraping the bottom of his barrel.   If you're a known Christian, the Jesus card will be up soon. 

Asking a Christian what Jesus would do doesn't label Christians it simply and quite effectively tests and challenges the principles they preach.

Edited June 1, 2018 by eyeball

[WIP]

23 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I said they have the right to exist within the recognized borders of Israel. I do not recognize the settlements. I have also in the past repeatedly condemned Israeli army criminal actions against defenseless Palestinian women and children. I am an unbiased poster who sees both sides of the strories and not commenting in a biased one sided manner.

Since this Mideast mess is usually measured from 1967 as the starting line now, we need to go back and make the point that most of the land in 1948-1967 Israel was expropriated from Palestinian Arabs living there.  One of the fascinating factoids that popped up during Israel's latest crimes against humanity in Gaza was a reminder that approx. 70% of Gaza residents are refugees...or is more likely the case after this length of time...descendents of refugees from Israel because of the Nakba in 1948! 

Prior to the Six Day War in 1967 and that massive land grab, the main issue regarding Israel/Palestine in the west was how these and other Palestinian refugees in Jordan and Lebanon would be resettled and/or compensated for their losses. After 1967, this issue was completely forgotten about, and virtually everyone in the west who considers themselves liberals or conservatives seems to believe that the 1948 State of Israel represents some sort of natural rights and boundaries....and it doesn't fwiw!

[GostHacked]

On 5/28/2018 at 3:39 PM, betsy said:

Well?

https://www.haaretz.com/1.5126122

Its no different than Netanyahu making the statement that he would never support a two state solution. IN fact Netanyahu NEVER supported a two state solution. No one anywhere is require to recognize Israel as a Jewish state. However we do have to recognize it AS a state.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/gaza-shows-that-netanyahu-never-wanted-a-two-state-solution/article19694572/

Quote

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has done more to kill the peace plan than any previous leader on either side. The two-state solution was on the table when he came into office in 2009, he had partners in Palestine and the United States, yet he paid only lip service to the plan as he continued to allow the expansion of settlements in the occupied territories.

And further into the article.

Quote

It turns out that much of this 'moderation' was a sham. Mr. Netanyahu's father – himself an opponent of Palestinian statehood – told an Israeli news channel very soon thereafter that his son "doesn't support [a Palestinian state]. He would support it under terms they would never accept." The settlements expanded, the occupation continued, and the U.S. president backed off.

When the Arab Spring broke out in 2011, President Obama tried again to restart the negotiations and called for a return to the 1967 lines. This was supposed to be an uncontroversial statement. But Mr. Netanyahu openly rejected it, called it "indefensible," then went on to lecture the president in the Oval Office.

And right at the end.

Quote

If the current war has revealed anything, it is the simple truth that this Israeli government is not in favour of a just end to the occupation.

The mentality of the settlers is the occupied territories are for taking over the area as well.  Each one making the claim that the land belongs to Jews.  The settlements were part of the plan.

And can one claim an attack on an illegal settlement as terrorism?

 

[Hudson Jones]

Israel continues to target civilians and first responders. Israel continues to commit war crimes with its actions in the Gaza strip.

A wounded Palestinian protester is evacuated during demonstrations east of Khan Younis in the southern Gaza Strip on 25 May. The woman medic in the photo is Razan al-Najjar, who was shot in the back and killed by an Israeli army sniper on 1 June.

[CITIZEN_2015]

23 minutes ago, Hudson Jones said:

Israel continues to target civilians and first responders. Israel continues to commit war crimes with its actions in the Gaza strip.

 

A wounded Palestinian protester is evacuated during demonstrations east of Khan Younis in the southern Gaza Strip on 25 May. The woman medic in the photo is Razan al-Najjar, who was shot in the back and killed by an Israeli army sniper on 1 June.

Israeli army murderous actions against defenseless civilian especially women amd medics is deplorable. Death to those elements in Israeli army who order or carry out these murderous actions.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/06/gaza-grief-pain-slain-angel-mercy-paramedic-180602143958100.html

 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Israeli army murderous actions against defenseless civilian especially women amd medics is deplorable. Death to those elements in Israeli army who order or carry out these murderous actions.

 

Death to the Israeli army elements ?   Well, that certainly boils down things to the basics.   

Q: What is harder to get than sympathy for PLO terrorists ?

A: Nothing

[Hudson Jones]

10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Death to the Israeli army elements ?   Well, that certainly boils down things to the basics.   

Q: What is harder to get than sympathy for PLO terrorists ?

A: Nothing

The medic is a PLO terrorist? So is the Canadian doctor who was shot and the thousands of other civilians who have been shot? 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Hudson Jones said:

The medic is a PLO terrorist? So is the Canadian doctor who was shot and the thousands of other civilians who have been shot? 

 

 

If he wants to be....that's his choice.   Nothing special about a Canadian doctor giving aid to violent protesters in a war zone.

[CITIZEN_2015]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

If he wants to be....that's his choice.   Nothing special about a Canadian doctor giving aid to violent protesters in a war zone.

It is Israel and its violent policies against the defenseless people who makes those people violent. And even violent protestors are much less criminal than the murderous Israelis who target and kill defenseless women and medics. Anyone who supports them and their murderous actions is equally guilty.

Edited June 5, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Death to the Israeli army elements ?   Well, that certainly boils down things to the basics.   

Q: What is harder to get than sympathy for PLO terrorists ?

A: Nothing

I am sure not everyone in Israel or even in Israeli army supports these actions or carry out these actions so my curse is on those who do.

It is Israeli army who are the terrorists who murder defenseless women and medics. Even the most violent armies in the world always respected the peace officers like medics. The Israeli army just showed to the world that Israel is a rogue state and gave reasons to the world as why this rogue state MUST END.

Edited June 5, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

[bush_cheney2004]

53 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

It is Israel and its violent policies against the defenseless people who makes those people violent. And even violent protestors are much less criminal than the murderous Israelis who target and kill defenseless women and medics. Anyone who supports them and their murderous actions is equally guilty.

 

Ummm...no they are not.   I support Israel (with my taxes), and yet you cannot bring any charges against me for IDF "crimes".

What's so special about violent women....that's sexist !

[marcus]

13 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

What's so special about violent women....that's sexist !

A medic was shot in the back by a sniper.

Only someone with psychopathic tendency would not find something wrong with that.