The Jordan Peterson phenomenon

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

By saying he's academic ?  How is it silly to call him something else that he is ?

 

I said just the opposite.  

I also listen when I feel like it.

It's silly to call him it if he isn't.  Like alt right.  Based on the exposure I've had to his views, I would say he does not fit the accepted view of what alt right means at all.

Perhaps I didn't do a good job of making my point.

Edited February 5, 2018 by bcsapper

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Perhaps I didn't do a good job of making my point.

Maybe.  

Anyway, it's a great missed opportunity.  We'll have to wait for somebody else to step in.

[drummindiver]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Peterson is a new kind of fraud, in that he - as an academic - is charged with helping the public cause.  Unlike Alex Jones, who is free to lie and enrich himself, Peterson is paid out of the public purse to advance the 'public' good.  By aligning with an organization that spreads disunity to profit itself, by accepting money from them and aligning with them he has shown that he is not worthy of his profession.

Far from listening to him, he should be absolutely ignored, at least until he either resigns his post and stops accepting taxpayer money to sow disunity.

Your reasoning is flawed. Justin Trudeau must be. a muslim then.

And god forbid anyone promotes critical thinking........

[drummindiver]

 

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

I suppose people just want him to be alt right. 

No, Just the lefties who want to call anybody they dont agree with a nazi.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

 

No, Just the lefties who want to call anybody they dont agree with a nazi.

Well, yes.  Those were the ones I was talking about.

[Argus]

15 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Peterson is a new kind of fraud, in that he - as an academic - is charged with helping the public cause. 

As he sees it, not as YOU see it. I'm sure those lying weasels at Laurier trying to bully Shepherd into their mindthink cadre thought they were doing it in the public interest too, even though they were, of course, completely and totally wrong, and proved themselves so dishonest they shouldn't even be allowed on a college campus.

15 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Unlike Alex Jones, who is free to lie and enrich himself, Peterson is paid out of the public purse to advance the 'public' good.  By aligning with an organization that spreads disunity

And how many professors have aligned themselves with Communists over the years, with Cuba, with other anti-democratic groups and beliefs? Has anyone demanded they be removed because they weren't advancing the public good?

15 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

to profit itself, by accepting money from them and aligning with them he has shown that he is not worthy of his profession.

I'll make you a deal. You can fire him if I get to fire all the brainless Left wing academics at our universities. I do warn you that means almost all of them.
Of course, they're not 'profiting' from their anti-democratic, anti-western views in a monetary sense. But since when is profit a dirty word except to Marxists?

15 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Far from listening to him, he should be absolutely ignored, at least until he either resigns his post and stops accepting taxpayer money to sow disunity.

He does his job as he's paid to do. What he does on his own time expressing views which, while they outrage you, seem pretty mainstream to me, is none of your business. All you're demonstrating is that familiar Left wing intolerance for views which violate your sacred beliefs.

[Argus]

15 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Ignoring him is definitely an option.  I've ignored his religious ramblings in what little I've read/seen about him. 

What religious ramblings?

[Argus]

15 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

"Lumped in" meaning he is in a group with these people, yes.  He freely chose to associate with them.  it doesn't mean he's a neo-nazi, white supremacist, or fascist himself but it does mean he associates with them.

Evidence?

[Michael Hardner]

16 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm asking this sincerely: wouldn't you consider someone who aligns with, and accepts money from a leading alt-right new source to be alt-right ?

 

https://www.therebel.media/reception_with_jordan_peterson

@Argus from the last page.

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, Argus said:

 I'm sure those lying weasels at Laurier trying to bully Shepherd into their mindthink cadre thought they were doing it in the public interest too, even though they were, of course, completely and totally wrong, and proved themselves so dishonest they shouldn't even be allowed on a college campus.

Yes, and they are even more of a blemish on their profession.

 

7 minutes ago, Argus said:

And how many professors have aligned themselves with Communists over the years, with Cuba, with other anti-democratic groups and beliefs? Has anyone demanded they be removed because they weren't advancing the public good?

Actually, people even being sympathetic to Marxism were forced out of their careers and blacklisted, yes.

 

7 minutes ago, Argus said:

I'll make you a deal. You can fire him if I get to fire all the brainless Left wing academics at our universities. I do warn you that means almost all of them. 

I can't fire anybody - and it has nothing to do with politics either.  If somebody is supposed to provide assistance to public dialogue and does just the opposite then they are a net negative.

 

8 minutes ago, Argus said:

He does his job as he's paid to do. What he does on his own time expressing views which, while they outrage you, seem pretty mainstream to me, is none of your business. All you're demonstrating is that familiar Left wing intolerance for views which violate your sacred beliefs.

Nothing to do with politics, though you want to make it about that because it's easier to write off views you don't like.

[Argus]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

@Argus from the last page.

What you are doing is calling the rebel alt-right, when it is only peripherally so, and then calling him alt-right for being in any way associaed with them. I admittedly have not followed this much because I find him an unexciting speaker, and the topic of transgendered nouns is frankly, ludicrously stupid. I did look at his wiki entry, though, and it looks fairly impressive, without any suggestion whatsoever of him being alt right.

Incidentally, that rebel association appears to be described here in the wiki article

In April 2017, Peterson was denied a Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council grant for the first time in his career, which he interpreted as retaliation for his statements regarding Bill C-16.^[75] A media relations adviser for SSHRC said "[c]ommittees assess only the information contained in the application".^[76] In response, The Rebel Media launched an Indiegogo campaign on Peterson's behalf.^[77] The campaign raised $195,000 by its end on May 6, equivalent to over two years of research funding.^[78]

Edited February 5, 2018 by Argus

[Argus]

10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes, and they are even more of a blemish on their profession.

 

And yet universities overflow with such as them.

Quote

Actually, people even being sympathetic to Marxism were forced out of their careers and blacklisted, yes.

PHhht. Maybe in the 1950s red scares. They're full of them now.  BTW, the WIKI article on Peterson he had this to say on his views here, which made sense to me.

Peterson believes that postmodern philosophers and sociologists since the 1960s,^[49] while typically claiming to reject Marxism and Communism, because they were discredited as economic ideologies as well by the exposure of crimes in the Soviet Union, have actually built upon and extended their core tenets. He states that it is difficult to understand contemporary society without considering the influence of postmodernism which initially spread from France to the United States through the English department at Yale University. He argues that they "started to play a sleight of hand, and instead of pitting the proletariat, the working class, against the bourgeois, they started to pit the oppressed against the oppressor. That opened up the avenue to identifying any number of groups as oppressed and oppressor and to continue the same narrative under a different name ...

Quote

Nothing to do with politics, though you want to make it about that because it's easier to write off views you don't like.

And you are doing the same thing here, quite obviously so.

Wiki quotes him thusly on Charlottesville.

In response to the 2017 protest in Charlottesville, Virginia, he criticized the far right's use of identity politics, and said that "the Caucasians shouldn't revert to being white. It's a bad idea, it's a dangerous idea, and it's coming fast, and I don't like to see that!" He stated that the notion of group identity is "seriously pathological ... reprehensible ... genocidal" and "it will bring down our civilization if we pursue it".

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, Argus said:

What you are doing is calling the rebel alt-right, when it is only peripherally so, and then calling him alt-right for being in any way associaed with them.

How are they peripherally so ?  They have had several journalists admonished for far-right comments, had correspondents at the Freedom Marches last August.  This is really a non-starter.

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, Argus said:

And yet universities overflow with such as them.

And so ?  The Laurier professor embarrassed his entire profession.

Would you undo that embarrassment by having all professors adopt pejorative and subjective terms moving forward ?

 

[Michael Hardner]

And your examples of Communists are people who say they're not Communists.... 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

How are they peripherally so ?  They have had several journalists admonished for far-right comments, had correspondents at the Freedom Marches last August.  This is really a non-starter.

Didn't the Wall Street Journal have correspondents at the Freedom Marches last August? When the Rebel starts pushing white supremacy and anti-Jewish arguments you'll have a case. But since it's run by a Jew I doubt that will happen soon.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

And your examples of Communists are people who say they're not Communists.... 

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and is anti-capitalist and in favor of government takeover of private business, well... It's a red duck.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

And so ?  The Laurier professor embarrassed his entire profession.

More people in his profession seem to deride Shepherd rather than him.

Quote

 

Would you undo that embarrassment by having all professors adopt pejorative and subjective terms moving forward ?

I'd undo it by firing anyone with his mindset, actually, but we both know that's not going to happen. In some respects universities are like the opposite of FOX news. They give students only one side of an argument, and mock and deride anyone who suggests there is any other side.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

22 minutes ago, Argus said:

  When the Rebel starts pushing white supremacy and anti-Jewish arguments you'll have a case. But since it's run by a Jew I doubt that will happen soon.

You really aren't caught up on The Rebel and their controversies.  

[Omni]

A bit of advice from "the stupid mans smart person"

 

“Look for your inspiration to the victorious lobster, with its 350 million years of practical wisdom,” Peterson wrote. “Stand up straight, with your shoulders back.”

 

He does sound a lot like Kermit the Frog though so he's kinda cute to listen to.

[Michael Hardner]

22 minutes ago, Argus said:

More people in his profession seem to deride Shepherd rather than him.

Cite ?

 

1 hour ago, Argus said:

And you are doing the same thing here, quite obviously so.

No.  My concern is chiefly with an organ for disunity funding a professor who claims to speak objectively for the public good.

[Michael Hardner]

24 minutes ago, Argus said:

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and is anti-capitalist and in favor of government takeover of private business, well... It's a red duck.

And yet you object to The Rebel, a publication that hires people who post anti-Semitic material, being tagged as alt-right.  Strange.  Almost like you have two standards.

[eyeball]

19 hours ago, GostHacked said:

The implications of not listening while trying to create safe spaces for some is the huge fall out that occurred at WLU.  It really is a big deal when universities appear to be teaching this kind of thing that goes against critical thinking while not challenging ideas because it might hurt someone's feelings.

 

So, to summarize,  people are simply not listening with their ears, they hear what they want to hear to match their worldview and will throw fits when they hear something that opposes their views.

This is not a phenonmenon that is restricted to a few handfulls of lefties in a few universities scattered across the landscape, you see it everyday around here in spades. I've been pointing out for years how mealy ears are a bigger pain in the ass than mealy mouths.

Recall the city of Babel where God scrambled up everyone's language so they can't understand each other.  Welcome to Planet Babel. where people deliberately choose to not understand what you're saying.

[Argus]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

And yet you object to The Rebel, a publication that hires people who post anti-Semitic material, being tagged as alt-right.  Strange.  Almost like you have two standards.

Does the Rebel post antisemitic material?  I'm not clued into what the backgrounds are of whoever writes for their website, nor even what appears on the website. It's a pro trump place and I have no interest in it. You're imputing guilt by second hand association. Ie Peterson is alt-right because the rebel, in response to him losing a grant, started a fundraising campaign, and while the rebel might not post antisemitic material some of the people known to have contributed to it have done so elsewhere...

That's a hell of a lot further to go than my saying professors who angrily denounce capitalism, engage in 'oppressor' identity politics, and call for government nationalization of industries are Marxist. The NDP Socialist Caucus might not call itself Marxist either but it's manifesto is a Marxist's wet dream.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Argus

[eyeball]

16 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Agreed...labeling Peterson with an imported term like "alt-right" is just intellectually lazy.

Sorta like lumping lelfties everywhere in with university flakes you mean?

Or did I just commit a 'so-what-you-really mean'?