The Great Deception

[blackbird]

On 2/10/2018 at 3:01 AM, John Prewett said:

Trinitarianism is insidious.

Contending Jesus “IS” God seems to honor Jesus,

but actually is a refusal to abide in the word of Jesus who identified Himself as Son OF God

[John 10:36] and endorsed being identified as the Son OF God.  [Matt 16]

 

Christians contend Jesus is the Son OF God.

Trinitarians contend Jesus IS God.

 

See Matt 16 Peter's confession that Jesus endorsed.  

 

Listen to following: 

"Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God." 1 John 4:15 ......

 

"...I [Jesus] said, I am the Son of God"”    John 10:36

 

 

“And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ”              John 17:3

 

“Jesus said …. go unto my brothers, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God”  John 20:17

 

TRINITARIANS put a stumbling block in the way of the blind [Muslims and Jews].

 

Trinitarianism is insidious.

 

  Contending Jesus “IS” God seems to honor Jesus,

 

  but actually is a refusal to abide in the word of Jesus who identified Himself as Son OF God.

 

By contending and demanding confession that Jesus IS God,  TRINITARIANS have been putting stumbling block in front of Muslims and Jews since the state church of the Roman Empire was established on 27 February 380 with the Edict of Thessalonica, when Emperor Theodosius I made Nicene [TRINITARIAN] "Christianity" the Empire's sole authorized religion. 

 

The Roman empire empowered the TRINITARIAN imitation "church" that the deceived world has thought the real Church ever since.

 

With the Edict of Milan of 313, Constantine I gave/established tolerance for Christianity, thus at this time Christians ceased being deemed enemies of the state. 

 

The Trinitarian cult, imposed on the Roman empire in 380ad caused Christians to be persecuted as “heretics.”

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_church_of_the_Roman_Empire

 

The King James Bible says:

"16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. "  1 Timothy 3:16       "God was manifest in the flesh"   seems clear.  The flesh refers to Jesus

"1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."  John 1:1   Here the word refers to Jesus and "the Word was God".

[betsy]

14 hours ago, dialamah said:

I suppose it boils down to being able to pick and choose what one wants to believe and prove it has God's approval.  The Bible has options for everyone. 

 

....unless you stop and think of the rationale why someone (like moi, as an example), would "pick and choose" certain verses. 

Anyway.....what do you mean, "pick and choose?"  Why shouldn't we "pick and choose" which is relevant? 

What do you expect - for me to cite the whole Scriptures? 

 

It's easy for you to be flippant and dismissive.........and yet, you offer nothing to substantiate what you say.  What you say has no substance at all. It's just all noise. 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

I hope you're reading all these verses John Prewett.  Here are some more.........

 

Hebrews 1

⁸ But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

⁹ Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

 

The Son was referred to as God.

 

 

 

 

Rev 1

⁷ Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

⁸ “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,”^[c] says the Lord,^[d] “who is and who was and who is to come,

the Almighty.”

 

Why is Jesus called the Almighty?  Isn't Jesus just the Son......and God being  the Almighty?

 

Genesis 17

The Sign of the Covenant

17 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God;

walk before Me and be blameless.

 

 

 

This is also the verse from the same chapter that shows that the Spirit is also Jesus (and therefore, is also God).

 

¹⁰ I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, ¹¹ saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and,^[f] “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia:^[g] to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

There is only one lawgiver.....and one judge.    To be judged is to either be rewarded, or be punished. 

Isaiah had written:

Isaiah 33

22 For the Lord is our judge; the Lord is our lawgiver; the Lord is our king; he will save us.

 

The Lord is also the title given to Jesus.

Jesus claims to be the judge who will give rewards.  He reiterates the title of being the Alpha and Omega.

 

Revelation 22

¹² “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. ¹³ I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

 

 

---------------------

 

Isaiah 33

22 For the Lord is our judge; the Lord is our lawgiver; the Lord is our king; he will save us.

 

Christ being given the same titles given to God, is consistently shown in so many verses, by different authors!

 

Luke 2:11

for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

Timothy refers to Jesus as the living God!

 

1 Tim 4

For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

 

 

Timothy refers to Jesus as, who alone, has immortality!  What about God?  Isn't God immortal?  So.....why Jesus alone?

 

1 Timothy 6

¹⁴ that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, ¹⁵ which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords,

¹⁶ who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

 

It says, Jesus is the only one who has immortality..... be honor, and everlasting power!  What about God?

 

What happened to God?

 

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by betsy

[dialamah]

3 hours ago, betsy said:

 

....unless you stop and think of the rationale why someone (like moi, as an example), would "pick and choose" certain verses. 

Anyway.....what do you mean, "pick and choose?"  Why shouldn't we "pick and choose" which is relevant? 

What do you expect - for me to cite the whole Scriptures? 

 

It's easy for you to be flippant and dismissive.........and yet, you offer nothing to substantiate what you say.  What you say has no substance at all. It's just all noise. 

 

 

Religious people pick and choose those scriptures that suit their beliefs.  JWs choose scripture that supports their no-blood belief.  Some Churches choose scripture that allows them.to prevent women from leading, impose dress codes on their flock, impose celibacy or to keep secret confessions of child abuse.  Others choose scripture that allows them to discriminate against people who look different or to kill non-believers.  And some choose scripture that emphasizes love and acceptance for all.   

Like I said, there is something for everyone in Scripture, along with scripture to prove that everyone else's favored scripture isn't what God meant, really.

 

[betsy]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Religious people pick and choose those scriptures that suit their beliefs.

 

I understand that.  Don't generalize.  John Prewett, seems to be one of them.....unless just like you, he hadn't read and studied the Bible.  

There are religious folks who "pick and choose" what is relevant to the discussion!  Like I said, surely you're not suggesting we cite the ENTIRE Scriptures, right?

Btw,  non-religious (especially the anti-Christians), are notorious for cherry -picking the Bible in their feeble attempt to discredit the Scriptures and Christians.  Taking things out of context.  You've been one of them!

 

Furthermore.....

You're referring to the verses being given here.  Don't you understand why  verses are being given??  

Edited February 13, 2018 by betsy

[dialamah]

8 minutes ago, betsy said:

I inderstand that.

But you're responding to my verses!  Don't you understand why I was giving those verses?  

Yes.  You are trying to demonstrate that your belief is the "correct" interpretation of the Bible.  I am saying your intepretation is merely your opinion and is no more or less valid than the OP's. 

[betsy]

7 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Yes.  You are trying to demonstrate that your belief is the "correct" interpretation of the Bible.  I am saying your intepretation is merely your opinion and is no more or less valid than the OP's. 

Yes.  But it's more than just an opinion, since I've backed them up with Scriptural verses!

And along with some of the verses.....I also explained why.   Some don't need any explanations.  It's just simple reading with the application of  common sense.

 

 

I edited, btw.  There's more to my response above.

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by betsy

[dialamah]

If people can use scripture to support what they believe, even if it directly contradicts someone else's scripture-based belief, then the Bible does not prove anything, it merely provides validation for people's preferences.

I consider this a feature of the Bible, not a bug.  This feature has allowed (most) Christians to advance beyond medieval beliefs and practices.

[betsy]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

If people can use scripture to support what they believe, even if it directly contradicts someone else's scripture-based belief, then the Bible does not prove anything, it merely provides validation for people's preferences.

 

It doesn't prove anything to those who don't think!  Or, to those who are ignorant about it! 

How can someone who hasn't really read the Bible say...."it doesn't prove anything?"  How would you know, when you don't even know that the OT is still very much relevant even when there is a  New Testament!   That alone, proves you don't understand whatever it is you'd read about the Bible.....and you can't even tell that you're repeating disinformation from who knows where you got that silly idea.

 

If you have some knowledge about the Scriptures, and you're using critical thinking, you'd know whose rationale is valid, or not.  You'd know what is shallow, and what's been taken out of context.

Edited February 13, 2018 by betsy

[?Impact]

6 minutes ago, betsy said:

How can someone who hasn't really read the Bible say...."it doesn't prove anything?"

I believe in wizards and wizardry, for I have read Harry Potter. It spoke to me.

Edited February 13, 2018 by ?Impact

[betsy]

56 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

I believe in wizards and wizardry, for I have read Harry Potter. It spoke to me.

Well....what can I say? 

I've always thought you're kinda weird........now, you prove I have reasonable  reason to think that.

Edited February 13, 2018 by betsy

[blackbird]

Salvation depends on believing Jesus is God.   When one received Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, he must understand who he is receiving as Lord and Saviour.  Jesus the Messiah is the Son of God and God as the Bible teaches in various places which have already been posted. and can be googled.  

[betsy]

I'm on the Book of  Revelation these days, and I read Chapter 21.    Here are the particular verses that consistently follows all the other declarations.  It is so plainly written.  It's so easy to connect the dots:

 

Rev 21

³ And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.

 

 

⁵ Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me,^[b] “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

⁶ And He said to me, “It is done!^[c] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. ⁷ He who overcomes shall inherit all things,^[d] and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

 

 

²² But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. ²³ The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it,^[j] for the glory^[k] of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.

 

 

God HIMSELF will be with them and be their God.  Jesus (the Alpha and Omega) says that He will be the God of saved people who'll be in this new kingdom.  That's so clearly stated!  

There is no temple.......... for Jesus Christ (God and Lamb),  is its temple!

 

 

 

Interesting thing...... that relevant verses seem to jump out when reading the Scriptures - even when you're not really looking for them. 

What more when one is sincerely searching for answers, or comfort, or guidance - the LIVING BOOK provides.  A new angle comes forth to give answer, to illuminate, to guide and to comfort.

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

On 2/10/2018 at 6:01 AM, John Prewett said:

Trinitarianism is insidious.

 

The term Trinity isn't found in the Bible........but the term, "Godhead," is listed 3 times in KJV.

 

Acts 17

²⁹ Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

 

 

Romans 1

²⁰ For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

 

Colossians 2

⁹ For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

 

 

 

With all the verses that have been given here - all of which clearly depicting God and Jesus as  One and the Same......to teach otherwise, is, what is insidious.   I hope you're paying attention, John Prewett.

 

Why God has to come and be introduced to us as The Son - we can't fully understand.  Maybe......maybe, to be the model of how a Son of God  would  be like.  In His obedience to His Father.  In His glorification of His Father.  In His dependency to His Father.  That role as a Son of God, will be bestowed on the saved.

 

 

Revelation 21

⁷ He who overcomes shall inherit all things,^[d] and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

 

The saved (sons of God) will therefore do all those that have been shown by Jesus Christ when He was here on earth as the Son of God:  Obey. Glorify. Depend.

Didn't Jesus teach all those when He was here?

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

Here's another cross-referencing explanation about Christ being God incarnate.

 

 

Quote

Colossians 2:9 is one of the clearest statements of the deity of Christ anywhere in the Bible: “In him [Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” The word for “Godhead” here is theotés.

According to this verse, Jesus Christ is God Incarnate. He embodies all (“the fulness”) of God (translated “the Deity” in the NIV). This truth aligns perfectly with Colossians 1:19, “God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him [Christ].”

Because the Godhead dwells bodily in Christ, Jesus could rightly claim that He and the Father are “one” (John 10:30). Because the fullness of God’s divine essence is present in the Son of God, Jesus could say to Philip, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9).

In summary, the Godhead is the essence of the Divine Being; the Godhead is the one and only Deity. Jesus, the incarnate Godhead, entered our world and showed us exactly who God is: “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known” (John 1:18; cf. Hebrews 1:3).

https://www.gotquestions.org/Godhead.html

[betsy]

On 2/10/2018 at 6:01 AM, John Prewett said:

Christians contend Jesus is the Son OF God.

Trinitarians contend Jesus IS God.

 

See Matt 16 Peter's confession that Jesus endorsed.  

 

Listen to following: 

"Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God." 1 John 4:15 ......

 

"...I [Jesus] said, I am the Son of God"”    John 10:36

 

 

“And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ”              John 17:3

 

“Jesus said …. go unto my brothers, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God”  John 20:17

 

 

 

However.....they're not all that's been said, and explained about Jesus Christ (as the numerous given verses show).   You can't simply use those verses to validate your claim.  That's what we call, "cherry-picking." 

You can't ignore the other verses that say Jesus is God.

Edited February 14, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

 

 

On 2/10/2018 at 6:01 AM, John Prewett said:

Listen to following: 

"Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God." 1 John 4:15 ......

 

"...I [Jesus] said, I am the Son of God"”    John 10:36

 

 

TRINITARIANS put a stumbling block in the way of the blind [Muslims and Jews].

 

 

 I think you should sit down, and take a deep breath. 

 

Muslims and Jews don't believe Jesus is the Son of God.  Jews don't believe He is the Messiah! 

There you go.  Think about that.

 

What do you suggest?  We tweak and change  the Word of God...........to suit your opinion?

Edited February 14, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

These verses declare Jesus as the Alpha and the Omega.

 

Revelation 22

 

¹² “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. ¹³ I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

¹⁴ “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. ¹⁵ Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

¹⁶ “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you^[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

Edited February 14, 2018 by betsy

[?Impact]

8 hours ago, betsy said:

The term Trinity isn't found in the Bible

Perhaps the word is not but it does describe the concept that is found in the Bible as in:

• Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost - Matthew 28:19-20
• This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. - Acts 2:32-33

There are at least another dozen verses that reference the three as distinct, and yes as one as well.

----

I am not sure what concept you are getting at with all your references to alpha and omega. I see that as an all encompassing concept, not a binary one. Alpha and Omega are the first and last letters of the Greek Alphabet, it is like saying A to Z. I think Revelation 22:13 you quoted above confirms that.

[betsy]

1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

I am not sure what concept you are getting at with all your references to alpha and omega.

Your views are irrelevant to this discussion, Impact.      Your statement is proof of that.

[Scott Mayers]

I used to think it odd that Christianity came up with the concept of the "Trinity". But with a lot of thought and investigation into logic, I discovered that given the Greek intellectual era came about because of fear regarding the implications of 'contradiction', the "trinity" was actually a disguised or evolved description of the last stages of Greek wisdom before the destruction of Alexandria. 

In a summary way of explaining here, the original words of any religious concepts were most likely 'secular' interpretations of reality. The words, God, Odd, Oden, Aten, and Adam, all relate to various interpretations of the concept of "solids". That is, these words actually evolved from a common root, namely, "Aten", which basically means "Thee (ultimate) thing" (think, "a tin" == "a thing"). In Egypt, "Aten" referred to the PERFECT solid of ORIGIN, the sun. It mainly meant the actual defining concept of solids: that which has borders enclosed (versus liquids and gases). 

As such, "Aten" refers to the PERFECT CIRCLE in nature in which it defines the SOURCE of all things. "Ra" is where "ray" comes from and referred to the ENERGY of Aten. It appears that English relates (as do many languages) unusually close to many of these original terms. For instance, the Northern (English) world had Odin (or Oden) as its major "god". Note too that "God" is "G"-"odd". Thus the Adam and Eve is derivative of their order in number, as in Odd and Even. 

I could speak a lot on this but will save it for a book. The point to here is that here we see the concept of some initial source, such as Aten. "Adam" comes from "Adem" which is the OBJECTIVE (or secondary form) of "Aten". This meant "that which is shaped of Earth (as a solid)". As such we see a tri-nature or "trinity" of ideas forming.

It is also due to logic that ended in the Alexandrian era of the Greeks in Egypt. To logic, for any initial assumption, A, there is an opposite (die-ty = dual thing), not-A.

But it was recognized that a 'third' factor to reality that may 'cause' change itself is A and not-A. This third factor is what the word "con-tra-dictory" came from. In means, "with three commanded (dictated or spoken of)". The word, "trivia", also derives from this to mean, "tri-valance" (that with three values).

The "Trinity" thus likely derived from the latter stages of the Greek philosophy in which the Church, when formally accepted by the Roman Empire, opted to HIDE the nature of this as though it were a "Gnostic" inside secret. Though it seems that a contradiction is something which cannot occur, logically, it can be reasoned that it IS THE 'causation' of all change, such as time and movement. Though it is lost to us with certainty (I bet there is some interesting banned books in the basement library of the Vatican), the Trinity is a transferred secular wisdom coded in religion. This is much of the case for all 'myths'. Most people then were just as 'secular' back then as now. But they didn't have regular means to read and write by the population at large. As such, the means to remember secular realities passed on by collective past societies was by ANIMATING them (like the "Simpsons" cartoons of today). These stories originally act as both secular AND character names which become gods, prophets and heroes. But what BECAME religion was originally just ways to remember and pass on intellectual wisdom. 

Obviously there would be flaws and 'religion' is the inevitable result, both with good and bad factors that come along with it.

The Trinity, as "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" are references to "The source" (YWYH = Ye ovah = "the egg" = uncertain source), to the 'son', or the literal "sun" in the sky, and then to the air. OR, as multiple possibilities coincide with many stories, relations to solids, liquids, and gases, etc. [Multiple interpretations are appropriately intended just as "The Simpsons" or "South Park" or other cartooned entertainment are designed to appear to APPEAL to EVERY listener by being sufficiently vague.

Either way, the "Trinity" is not simply some irrational reality that we see it as from now. Much of history is destroyed or lost by our ancestors with purpose. The library at Alexandria, Egypt, for example, was destroyed by the populous who feared the rationality of the intellectuals at the time. "Trinity" rationales are what Hegel also used in the 1800s where he also thought of all political ideas BEGINNING as 'good' and FOR most people. This is called the "thesis". Then in time, the political children of the original leaders become the spoiled offspring who then think their power to rule is INHERITED and granted by God. This is the Antithesis that DENIES or NEGATES the original intention of the past government. This makes it so corrupt in time that it leads to CONFLICT: a 'contradiction' to which the ONLY resolution is to overthrow the NOW evil leaders. This is called the "Synthesis". Can you see the "trinity" logic concept having some rationality now? 

This cycle then just repeats. The synthesis is the revolutionary change that then becomes the next "thesis".

 

Sorry for going on like this. But you guys might at least find it interesting to discuss and debate in context to the Catholic religion that adopted this. I hope its helpful.

 

Scott.

 

P.S. "Amun" also relates to Egyptian reference of the sun. It meant "that which reflects", as in LIGHT. It meant "the moon" because it reflects this. The sun's light was "Amun-ra". So the Egyptian's apparent Polytheism was NOT actually as it seems. Many interpret these today as "gods". This is NOT how it was originally interpreted by the original tribes that formed that society. Note here that another word, "Ptah", came about. It references the 'sound' of a spark from a fire. These words BECAME 'gods' and later generations LOST the original meanings. As such, when AkenAten (akin or related to Aten), King Tut's father, came along, he tried to make their then 'multicultural' society conform to a single 'god'. The population probably knew this leader (Mosis) as an idiot and while they accepted him, they had to stop him from destroying all the temples (as he was) and sent him to the desert for a generation (40 years). In that place, he created Amarna and is where the broken stone of an obelisk that had his commandments were placed upon an arc (a sled/boat), and became Judaism's "arc of the covenant"!!

Edited February 15, 2018 by Scott Mayers
Edited to add a Postscript.

[blackbird]

On ‎2018‎-‎02‎-‎13 at 9:40 AM, dialamah said:

If people can use scripture to support what they believe, even if it directly contradicts someone else's scripture-based belief, then the Bible does not prove anything, it merely provides validation for people's preferences.

I consider this a feature of the Bible, not a bug.  This feature has allowed (most) Christians to advance beyond medieval beliefs and practices.

There are certain beliefs or doctrines in the Bible that have been accepted by the great majority of churches down through the ages.  Some of these basic beliefs have been stated in a number of confessions of faith.  Examples would be the Apostles Creed, the Nicene Creed, The Westminster Confession of Faith, The Heidelberg Catechism,  The Canons of Dort, etc.

[betsy]

9 hours ago, Scott Mayers said:

I used to think it odd that Christianity came up with the concept of the "Trinity". But with a lot of thought and investigation into logic, I discovered that given the Greek intellectual era came about because of fear regarding the implications of 'contradiction', the "trinity" was actually a disguised or evolved description of the last stages of Greek wisdom before the destruction of Alexandria. 

In a summary way of explaining here, the original words of any religious concepts were most likely 'secular' interpretations of reality. The words, God, Odd, Oden, Aten, and Adam, all relate to various interpretations of the concept of "solids". That is, these words actually evolved from a common root, namely, "Aten", which basically means "Thee (ultimate) thing" (think, "a tin" == "a thing"). In Egypt, "Aten" referred to the PERFECT solid of ORIGIN, the sun. It mainly meant the actual defining concept of solids: that which has borders enclosed (versus liquids and gases). 

As such, "Aten" refers to the PERFECT CIRCLE in nature in which it defines the SOURCE of all things. "Ra" is where "ray" comes from and referred to the ENERGY of Aten. It appears that English relates (as do many languages) unusually close to many of these original terms. For instance, the Northern (English) world had Odin (or Oden) as its major "god". Note too that "God" is "G"-"odd". Thus the Adam and Eve is derivative of their order in number, as in Odd and Even. 

I could speak a lot on this but will save it for a book. The point to here is that here we see the concept of some initial source, such as Aten. "Adam" comes from "Adem" which is the OBJECTIVE (or secondary form) of "Aten". This meant "that which is shaped of Earth (as a solid)". As such we see a tri-nature or "trinity" of ideas forming.

It is also due to logic that ended in the Alexandrian era of the Greeks in Egypt. To logic, for any initial assumption, A, there is an opposite (die-ty = dual thing), not-A.

But it was recognized that a 'third' factor to reality that may 'cause' change itself is A and not-A. This third factor is what the word "con-tra-dictory" came from. In means, "with three commanded (dictated or spoken of)". The word, "trivia", also derives from this to mean, "tri-valance" (that with three values).

The "Trinity" thus likely derived from the latter stages of the Greek philosophy in which the Church, when formally accepted by the Roman Empire, opted to HIDE the nature of this as though it were a "Gnostic" inside secret. Though it seems that a contradiction is something which cannot occur, logically, it can be reasoned that it IS THE 'causation' of all change, such as time and movement. Though it is lost to us with certainty (I bet there is some interesting banned books in the basement library of the Vatican), the Trinity is a transferred secular wisdom coded in religion. This is much of the case for all 'myths'. Most people then were just as 'secular' back then as now. But they didn't have regular means to read and write by the population at large. As such, the means to remember secular realities passed on by collective past societies was by ANIMATING them (like the "Simpsons" cartoons of today). These stories originally act as both secular AND character names which become gods, prophets and heroes. But what BECAME religion was originally just ways to remember and pass on intellectual wisdom. 

Obviously there would be flaws and 'religion' is the inevitable result, both with good and bad factors that come along with it.

The Trinity, as "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" are references to "The source" (YWYH = Ye ovah = "the egg" = uncertain source), to the 'son', or the literal "sun" in the sky, and then to the air. OR, as multiple possibilities coincide with many stories, relations to solids, liquids, and gases, etc. [Multiple interpretations are appropriately intended just as "The Simpsons" or "South Park" or other cartooned entertainment are designed to appear to APPEAL to EVERY listener by being sufficiently vague.

Either way, the "Trinity" is not simply some irrational reality that we see it as from now. Much of history is destroyed or lost by our ancestors with purpose. The library at Alexandria, Egypt, for example, was destroyed by the populous who feared the rationality of the intellectuals at the time. "Trinity" rationales are what Hegel also used in the 1800s where he also thought of all political ideas BEGINNING as 'good' and FOR most people. This is called the "thesis". Then in time, the political children of the original leaders become the spoiled offspring who then think their power to rule is INHERITED and granted by God. This is the Antithesis that DENIES or NEGATES the original intention of the past government. This makes it so corrupt in time that it leads to CONFLICT: a 'contradiction' to which the ONLY resolution is to overthrow the NOW evil leaders. This is called the "Synthesis". Can you see the "trinity" logic concept having some rationality now? 

This cycle then just repeats. The synthesis is the revolutionary change that then becomes the next "thesis".

 

Sorry for going on like this. But you guys might at least find it interesting to discuss and debate in context to the Catholic religion that adopted this. I hope its helpful.

 

Scott.

 

P.S. "Amun" also relates to Egyptian reference of the sun. It meant "that which reflects", as in LIGHT. It meant "the moon" because it reflects this. The sun's light was "Amun-ra". So the Egyptian's apparent Polytheism was NOT actually as it seems. Many interpret these today as "gods". This is NOT how it was originally interpreted by the original tribes that formed that society. Note here that another word, "Ptah", came about. It references the 'sound' of a spark from a fire. These words BECAME 'gods' and later generations LOST the original meanings. As such, when AkenAten (akin or related to Aten), King Tut's father, came along, he tried to make their then 'multicultural' society conform to a single 'god'. The population probably knew this leader (Mosis) as an idiot and while they accepted him, they had to stop him from destroying all the temples (as he was) and sent him to the desert for a generation (40 years). In that place, he created Amarna and is where the broken stone of an obelisk that had his commandments were placed upon an arc (a sled/boat), and became Judaism's "arc of the covenant"!!

 

We're not all Catholics.  And some of us, like me who used to be Catholic....had left that building because I see some of its teachings go directly against the Scriptures.  I have a very big problem with glorification of Mary and the saints.....among other things.  Now that I'd read the Bible, that is to me, a big red flashing flag!

 

My take on this is that, some folks discredit the Scriptural truths  - like the concept of 3-in-1 - by pointing to denominations that they say, had corrupted it. 

  So the term "Trinity" was coined.  So what?  Big deal.    Based on that....some try to sell the opinion that Jesus as God, is therefore,  a hoax. 

 

They came up with the term Trinity - maybe, it's because they don't really have an accurate  term for 3-in-1 that's described in the Scriptures!  Some even tried to explain that concept likening it to  a clear glass of water (God = glass, The Word (Jesus) and the Spirit are its content)

 

Arguing about the term Trinity.....is petty disputation!   What's there to argue about it? 

 

Instead, let's deal with what's turning out to be the hoax.....

Let's talk about the false teaching that Jesus isn't God, but merely the Son.  Why should an opinion that's based on cherry-picked quotations matter at all?   I'm pointing to the verses that clearly say, Jesus is God.

Edited February 15, 2018 by betsy