H10 Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Brown was accused of sexually assaulting 2 women, and his entire senior campaign staff resigned. His Party seems to have abandoned him. He was probably the strongest candidate that the conservatives has ran in a good decade. The real question is who will replace Brown in the conservative party once his caucaus gives him the boot. Its quiet sad really because he signed up tens of thousands of new members in what was a party becoming very unpopular. Now they are talking about throwing in some unknown person to challenge Wynne, the Conservative party is finished in 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Doug Ford is an unknown ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Maybe Horwath will be able to sneak in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginsy Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 I'm confused and disappointed. I was a fence sitter and Patrick Brown pulled me towards the tories. With new leadership I'm not entirely sure how I'll feel. 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: Doug Ford is an unknown ?? Is everyone expecting Doug Ford to be next up? I like Lisa MacLeod but I guess that's not happening... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Ginsy said: Is everyone expecting Doug Ford to be next up? I like Lisa MacLeod but I guess that's not happening... I thought Christine Elliott was the front runner for much of the time, up until shortly before the convention. I didn't pay a lot of attention to their leadership race, but I would expect her to be in a good position. Ford would be a losing proposition for the OPC. He might bring in some radical elements, but that is not what they need. Edited January 25, 2018 by ?Impact 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 2 hours ago, H10 said: Brown was accused of sexually assaulting 2 women, and his entire senior campaign staff resigned. His Party seems to have abandoned him. He was probably the strongest candidate that the conservatives has ran in a good decade. The real question is who will replace Brown in the conservative party once his caucaus gives him the boot. Its quiet sad really because he signed up tens of thousands of new members in what was a party becoming very unpopular. Now they are talking about throwing in some unknown person to challenge Wynne, the Conservative party is finished in 2018. The conservative party in all provinces of Canada are finished because none have a candidate to put forward like Trump. They had Kellie Leitch who came close to being a Trump but she has quit the conservative party because she knows that Scheer is no Trump. All political party's are all just full of politically correct clowns who have no clue as to how to run a country. They all just know how to screw this country up and suck up to the banksters. I am amazed that this country has lasted as long as it has. The West needs a Trump like political candidate that will save the West from the abuse and corruption that Ontario and Quebec have been laying on Canada for several decades now. Ontario was finished a long time ago because the people of Ontario have been putting in corrupt and self serving political morons who have been only interested in destroying Canada, not make it great. Canada has to be seen as a dumb country these days. It stands for nothing but decay and bankruptcy. Just my opinion. Works for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 32 minutes ago, Ginsy said: I'm confused and disappointed. I was a fence sitter and Patrick Brown pulled me towards the tories. With new leadership I'm not entirely sure how I'll feel. Is everyone expecting Doug Ford to be next up? I like Lisa MacLeod but I guess that's not happening... Probably the only chance that the Ontario PC's have to beat Wynne is if they take a guy like Doug Ford and vote him as leader of the conservative party. Hey, you never know, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 27 minutes ago, ?Impact said: I thought Christine Elliott was the front runner for much of the time, up until shortly before the convention. I didn't pay a lot of attention to their leadership race, but I would expect her to be in a good position. Ford would be a losing proposition for the OPC. He might bring in some radical elements, but that is not what they need. On the contrary, that is what the OPC do need. They need someone like a Trump to put in as their leader. What have they got to lose? If they just put in another politically correct leader then nothing will change. Ontarians might as well vote the liberals back in again because they have a politically correct party already. It could just stay the same old, same old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, taxme said: take a guy like Doug Ford and vote him as leader of the conservative party Since I haven't heard any conspiracy theories yet, I will start one. I wouldn't be surprised if Doug Ford paid these ladies to make accusations to provide an opening for him. b.t.w. Brown resigned an hour ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) It may be a good thing. Brown wasn't well liked. Lisa Macleod would be my pick. But man! Innocent until proven guilty has been thrown out the window eh? Edited January 25, 2018 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 40 minutes ago, Boges said: But man! Innocent until proven guilty has been thrown out the window eh? Not if sexual assault/harassment allegations were made against Kathleen Wynne. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Well reality says depends on 2 items, one who the new leader of the Tories and who the voters of the GTA, who will they support since that were the major voters r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Boges said: But man! Innocent until proven guilty has been thrown out the window eh? Unlike a lot of the other political targets of sexual assault allegations, there is not a lot in Patrick Brown's past that helps to support them. While he may have other things like his strong anti-choice history to overcome, that only describes his politics and not his character. While I did see one reference last night that there were some unsubstantiated rumors a few years ago, I have so far dismissed that because it was from limited sources. That being said,it sounds like there is some credibility to the allegations in that there are two different accusers and one of them has some supporting documentation and others she has told in the past. No, having that verified by CTV is obviously not enough to convict him of criminal charges, but it is enough to stand up and take notice. Despite the bull coming from Donald Trump and the right wing noisemakers about "fake MSM news", the reality is they do have a relatively good record of journalistic integrity. Innocent until proven guilty is very important in law when you are going to incarcerate a person, it does not apply to the rest of life. Yes the allegations should be investigated and if they are proven false then those making them should be held accountable. Concerning criminal charges, from the allegations I am not sure what could be leveled. There might be an underage charge with the first, but "high school" could also include 18 year old students so jumping to conclusions is premature. Additionally the way our laws are written, 16&17 might not result in any charges which is why I have always advocated for difference in age and not a single value. Certainly as described, the conduct is unacceptable, but is it criminal? Edited January 25, 2018 by ?Impact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, H10 said: Brown was accused of sexually assaulting 2 women, and his entire senior campaign staff resigned. His Party seems to have abandoned him. He was probably the strongest candidate that the conservatives has ran in a good decade. The real question is who will replace Brown in the conservative party once his caucaus gives him the boot. Its quiet sad really because he signed up tens of thousands of new members in what was a party becoming very unpopular. Now they are talking about throwing in some unknown person to challenge Wynne, the Conservative party is finished in 2018. Caroline Mulroney? Edited January 25, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 8 hours ago, ?Impact said: Since I haven't heard any conspiracy theories yet, I will start one. I wouldn't be surprised if Doug Ford paid these ladies to make accusations to provide an opening for him. b.t.w. Brown resigned an hour ago. 2 women at the same time, just before a election.. Sounds fishy. But I was never a fan of his and hope elliot would have own. I think she will be put in,if she wants it. The party is not done yet, a lot pf people out there that would vote for a tree, before they vote wynne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Innocent or guilty Brown is done like dinner, which is a sad commentary on today's social justice system. What happened to a day in court and innocent until proven guilty as he is categorically denying the allegations. I also agree with BC about Wynne. I wonder if the accusers are Liberals as the timing is suspect, this could tip the election in favour of the Liberals (heaven help Ontario) I'm inclined to disregard the first accusation which allegedly happened in high school where I'm sure a lot of that stuff goes on; not that it's acceptable but I doubt he's not the first or only guy to do that. The second one needs to be investigated and Brown cleared or not. Also, why are the accusers allowed to remain anonymous, considering they have ruined Brown's career, innocent or not, surely they should be under some scrutiny. I hope they can get a decent interim leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, PIK said: 2and hope elliot would have own I didn't pay close attention to the leadership race, but yes Elliott seemed to have a lot of support and was even the front runner until close to the convention. I don't know much about her other than having been married to Jim Flaherty. I understand that Wynne appointed her to some role (in health care, possibly concerning patient rights or advocacy) so she might be committed to that at the moment. I have seen a lot of other names floated in the past 12 hours, and hers has not been prominent. 1 minute ago, scribblet said: What happened to a day in court and innocent until proven guilty as he is categorically denying the allegations. Do you see a difference between illegal and unacceptable behavior? Yes, he deserves his day in court if they are false and defamatory comments but that is a different issue from criminal court. 1 minute ago, scribblet said: I'm inclined to disregard the first accusation which allegedly happened in high school where I'm sure a lot of that stuff goes on; not that it's acceptable but I doubt he's not the first or only guy to do that. Maybe I misunderstood the first accusation. I thought the girl was in high school, but he was in his late 20's at the time. Not sure what her age was so it might or might not be an underage charge in addition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 hour ago, ?Impact said: Despite the bull coming from Donald Trump and the right wing noisemakers about "fake MSM news", the reality is they do have a relatively good record of journalistic integrity. This allegation has nothing to do with Donald Trump, but I know he is the go to meme in Canada now. Sexual harassment/assault allegations have been weaponized for political gain, and the media are complicit in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: This allegation has nothing to do with Donald Trump, but I know he is the go to meme in Canada now. Sexual harassment/assault allegations have been weaponized for political gain, and the media are complicit in that. I never said that, I said discrediting the main stream media is due to Donald Trump and that is 1000% true. Sexual assault is never acceptable, stop it with the weaponized rhetoric. Much of what we hear in the media on that subject recently has nothing to do with politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, scribblet said: Innocent or guilty Brown is done like dinner, which is a sad commentary on today's social justice system. What happened to a day in court and innocent until proven guilty as he is categorically denying the allegations. Today's social justice system is as it is, and for the same reason the political system in general has 'trust issues'. 8 minutes ago, scribblet said: I wonder if the accusers are Liberals as the timing is suspect, this could tip the election in favour of the Liberals (heaven help Ontario) Unlikely. One of them worked for him. *could* LOL... As for the timing, an insider has told me that it was likely PC people who triggered this, fearing that the Liberals had something they could release closer to the election. As it is, the PC party gets a 'do over' of their leader selection which is actually a benefit for them. 8 minutes ago, scribblet said: I'm inclined to disregard the first accusation which allegedly happened in high school where I'm sure a lot of that stuff goes on; not that it's acceptable but I doubt he's not the first or only guy to do that. The second one needs to be investigated and Brown cleared or not. Also, why are the accusers allowed to remain anonymous, considering they have ruined Brown's career, innocent or not, surely they should be under some scrutiny. Uh.... *she* was in high school (18 years old) and he was not, and plied her with booze. Accusers are allowed to remain anonymous, I think, because the courts work that way. 8 minutes ago, scribblet said: I hope they can get a decent interim leader. I will bet they do, unless Doug Ford gets involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Boges said: It may be a good thing. Brown wasn't well liked. I was not impressed with the way Brown handled his press conference last night. Right there it showed he is lacking in leadership qualities and the PC party is better off without him as leader. He should have waited till this morning to make any pronouncements where presumably he would have been more composed and cohesive. Instead he looked and sounded wimpy and was chased out of the building by the media. Like watching and hearing a nightmare unfold. Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) I didn't realize Brown was not in high school in which case it is more serious. However, let's hope that this is an opportunity for the party to appoint a reasonable leader who won't rig nominations and so on. Ontario is losing another company due to Liberal policies, Ontario cannot afford to let the Liberals win, which is why I don't understand how anyone could possible vote for them. Also note that the second accuser actually returned to work for Brown, the next year. Edited January 25, 2018 by scribblet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, ?Impact said: I never said that, I said discrediting the main stream media is due to Donald Trump and that is 1000% true. False....MSM had been discredited long before Donald Trump came along. Trump just had a national platform to highlight this reality, and Canada has somebody across the border to blame, as usual. Quote Sexual assault is never acceptable, stop it with the weaponized rhetoric. Much of what we hear in the media on that subject recently has nothing to do with politics. Sexual assault allegations are not only acceptable, they need not be proven for political weaponization. Edited January 25, 2018 by bush_cheney2004 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, ?Impact said: Innocent until proven guilty is very important in law when you are going to incarcerate a person, it does not apply to the rest of life. Yes the allegations should be investigated and if they are proven false then those making them should be held accountable. The allegations on the surface don't seem all that shocking to me. One is that he suggested oral sex to a drunk high school girl when he was a city councilor. But how bad that is depends on the context, which we do not know. The other said he 'assaulted' her when she was drunk. In both cases the women had been out drinking at a bar with him. He was elected to Barrie city council at the ripe old age of 22. Back then we still had grade 13 in Ontario. There were a lot of 18 and 19 year olds in high school. A 22 year old propositioning a 19 year old for oral sex is big meh. And especially if it was preceded, as would seem likely, by a certain amount of sexual banter beforehand. According to the complaint she didn't agree and there was no suggestion he tried to force her. In the second allegation a woman who had asked him for a job after he had told her he thought she was attractive, was working as at a summer job in his constituency office. She said she had a lot to drink while at a get-together, went home with him and and another guy, and was shocked, shocked that he came on to her after she went to his bedroom 'to look at pictures" and was sitting on his bed with him! Even though he had suggested earlier he found her attractive. And then, then... why, when she said no he stopped and drove her home! Damn the man! Clearly he should be in prison. https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/01/24/pc-leader-patrick-brown-holds-late-night-press-conference-to-deny-allegations-of-sexual-misconduct.html Edited January 25, 2018 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, Argus said: He was elected to Barrie city council at the ripe old age of 22. Back then we still had grade 13 in Ontario. There were a lot of 18 and 19 year olds in high school. A 22 year old propositioning a 19 year old for oral sex is big meh. Yes, details are not that clear but one I found is that the first accuser is 29 today, or 10 years younger than Brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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