Jerusalem is Israel's Capital...

[Army Guy]

19 hours ago, Gingerteeth said:

Didn't say it could change history. The UN still see Palistinian's have a claim to parts of Israel.

Yes the palestinians do have a claim in front of the UN, and yet so does Israel.  

[Gingerteeth]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Yes the palestinians do have a claim in front of the UN, and yet so does Israel.  

I never claimed Israel didn't have a claim so no disagreements there.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Gingerteeth

[Hudson Jones]

6 hours ago, Bonam said:

Ok, good for the UN. 

It's International Law, which Israel, U.S. and Canada are a signatory to. 

Perhaps in the medieval times, but you cannot just conquer a territory by war and say it's mine. 

[DogOnPorch]

39 minutes ago, Hudson Jones said:

It's International Law, which Israel, U.S. and Canada are a signatory to. 

Perhaps in the medieval times, but you cannot just conquer a territory by war and say it's mine. 

 

North Viet-Nam says you're wrong.

[DogOnPorch]

For those unaware, North Viet-Nam invaded Cambodia, Laos and South Viet-Nam...ethnically cleansed the South...was rewarded by the UN with a full seat in the assembly and was never asked to give back any of the land they conquered. The North even renamed the ancient city of Saigon after their dictator. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_413

 

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by DogOnPorch

[taxme]

On 12/6/2017 at 10:18 PM, marcus said:

Three of the biggest donors in U.S. politics are billionaires Ronald Lauder, Sheldon Adelson (historically republican donors) and Haim Saban (historically, a democratic donor). 

Their number one agenda is Israel. Or as they are called, Israeli Firsters. 

Trump knows that donations drive politics in the U.S. and if he wants to survive what`s ahead of him internally and if he wants the support of the republicans, he will need to get the big donors on board. 

He also knows that the attention and the fireworks this move will start will take away attention from the cluster f*ck his administration has been at home.

 

This just shows as to who really runs the world. It ain't you and me, pardner. He who has the most money gets the most ballots. They all pretty much appear to be of the zionist Israel firsters kind. It is so bloody obvious as to who really runs and rules the world. It is as plain as day. 

[taxme]

19 hours ago, Hudson Jones said:

It's International Law, which Israel, U.S. and Canada are a signatory to. 

Perhaps in the medieval times, but you cannot just conquer a territory by war and say it's mine. 

Hello, Did you just wake up yesterday?  Where have you been all these decades? Asleep?  

A number of decades ago Israel invaded Palestine and stole that land away from the Palestinian people. Hello. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by taxme

[DogOnPorch]

57 minutes ago, taxme said:

Hello, Did you just wake up yesterday?  Where have you been all these decades? Asleep?  

A number of decades ago Israel invaded Palestine and stole that land away from the Palestinian people. Hello. 

 

Not true.

The Arabs attack the new state of Israel upon its foundation. The Israelis have never invaded anything.

Palestinians were invented in 1967. Before 1967 they were called Egyptians and Jordanians.

[Rue]

On 1/9/2018 at 8:16 PM, Hudson Jones said:

It's International Law, which Israel, U.S. and Canada are a signatory to. 

Perhaps in the medieval times, but you cannot just conquer a territory by war and say it's mine. 

What is international law. You again spew horseshit. What specific treaty do you claim Israel signed that it has violated. Do you even know? Of course not. This forum simply serves for you to spew shit about Israel with no specifics.

[Hudson Jones]

4 hours ago, Rue said:

What is international law. You again spew horseshit. What specific treaty do you claim Israel signed that it has violated. Do you even know? Of course not. This forum simply serves for you to spew shit about Israel with no specifics.

No. You spew horseshit.

Israel is violating many international law.

You can have a look at some of them on the HRW site: Israel: 50 Years of Occupation Abuses

One specific one are the illegal settlements. 

Israel’s Settlements Have No Legal Validity, Constitute Flagrant Violation of International Law, Security Council Reaffirms
14 Delegations in Favour of Resolution 2334 (2016) as United States Abstains

“Reaffirming the obligation of Israel, the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by its legal obligations and responsibilities under the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949, and recalling the advisory opinion rendered on 9 July 2004 by the International Court of Justice,

“Condemning all measures aimed at altering the demographic composition, character and status of the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, including, inter alia, the construction and expansion of settlements, transfer of Israeli settlers, confiscation of land, demolition of homes and displacement of Palestinian civilians, in violation of international humanitarian law and relevant resolutions,

“Expressing grave concern that continuing Israeli settlement activities are dangerously imperilling the viability of the two-State solution based on the 1967 lines,

The rest of the world, including Canada agrees with this.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2018 by Hudson Jones

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Hudson Jones said:

The rest of the world, including Canada agrees with this.

 

Yes...Canada agrees with having lots of settlements on occupied land...for over 150 years.

Edited January 12, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[taxme]

On 1/10/2018 at 2:07 PM, DogOnPorch said:

 

Not true.

The Arabs attack the new state of Israel upon its foundation. The Israelis have never invaded anything.

Palestinians were invented in 1967. Before 1967 they were called Egyptians and Jordanians.

There was once a land called Palestine, don't you know? The Arabs no doubt attacked Israel because the Jews stole the land of Palestine from the Palestinians.

Then why are they called Palestinians if they were considered to be Egyptian or Jordanian? 

Israel did not exist before 1967. Israel only became a country after they stole the land from you know who. 

[taxme]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Yes...Canada agrees with having lots of settlements on occupied land...for over 150 years.

Canada has to agree with anything Israel does and everybody knows that or else. 

[taxme]

3 hours ago, Hudson Jones said:

No. You spew horseshit.

Israel is violating many international law.

You can have a look at some of them on the HRW site: Israel: 50 Years of Occupation Abuses

One specific one are the illegal settlements. 

Israel’s Settlements Have No Legal Validity, Constitute Flagrant Violation of International Law, Security Council Reaffirms
14 Delegations in Favour of Resolution 2334 (2016) as United States Abstains

“Reaffirming the obligation of Israel, the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by its legal obligations and responsibilities under the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949, and recalling the advisory opinion rendered on 9 July 2004 by the International Court of Justice,

“Condemning all measures aimed at altering the demographic composition, character and status of the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, including, inter alia, the construction and expansion of settlements, transfer of Israeli settlers, confiscation of land, demolition of homes and displacement of Palestinian civilians, in violation of international humanitarian law and relevant resolutions,

“Expressing grave concern that continuing Israeli settlement activities are dangerously imperilling the viability of the two-State solution based on the 1967 lines,

The rest of the world, including Canada agrees with this.

 

 

Canada and pretty much every other country knows that they must agree with Israel or else.  That is how the world works. 

[taxme]

7 hours ago, Rue said:

What is international law. You again spew horseshit. What specific treaty do you claim Israel signed that it has violated. Do you even know? Of course not. This forum simply serves for you to spew shit about Israel with no specifics.

Israel doesn't give a bit of horseshit about international law and as to what the rest of the world has to say or think. If a country goes against Israel more than likely that country may soon get invaded. That is how the world works and you know that. So you should stop with the horseshit, eh? 

[taxme]

On 1/10/2018 at 2:07 PM, DogOnPorch said:

 

Not true.

The Arabs attack the new state of Israel upon its foundation. The Israelis have never invaded anything.

Palestinians were invented in 1967. Before 1967 they were called Egyptians and Jordanians.

There is no need for Israel to invade any country. They get America, Canada and Britain to do it for them. 

[DogOnPorch]

32 minutes ago, taxme said:

There was once a land called Palestine, don't you know? The Arabs no doubt attacked Israel because the Jews stole the land of Palestine from the Palestinians.

Then why are they called Palestinians if they were considered to be Egyptian or Jordanian? 

Israel did not exist before 1967. Israel only became a country after they stole the land from you know who. 

 

Israel was born officially in 1948 by UN vote. The Arabs attacked immediately after. Dragged on well into 1949. An Israeli victory overall as they survived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War

There was the British Mandate of Palestine. A military jurisdiction run by the UK post WW1 after the Ottoman surrender & fall. Not a country. The Palestine of Roman times was a different critter altogether. Not an Arab in the place.

The Gaza Strip as we know it was created after the 1956 Suez Crisis....a spur of Egyptian territory. The West Bank was annexed by Jordan after it captured the region during the 1948 War.

"Palestinians" used to refer to the Jews, oddly enough. Arabs were all Arabs...just from different clans. Yasser Arafat was Egyptian by our standards. Born and lived in Cairo before joining his uncle Hajj Amin in his bid for dominance over al-Aqsa/Temple Mount.

However, there has always been a Jewish presence in the area since ancient times. Despite Roman and Arab efforts otherwise. The Jews even previously survived Alexander the Great where the Ancient Philistines did not.

Starting with the 1858 Land Code, individuals were allowed to purchase crown land from the Ottoman Sultan in order to refill the coffers drained during the Crimean War. This opened the door to the Zionist Movement a number of years later who started buying land in the Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem region...basically scrub-land. They paid the Jizya and a highly inflated price (being Jews) but were exempt from military service in the Ottoman Army. The Arabs were also able to buy land and numerous clans did so...like the Hashemites and al-Husseinis. But it meant paying steep property taxes back to the Sultan as well as service in the Ottoman military. So not every Arab could or would...being somewhat distrustful of the Turks from day 1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Land_Code_of_1858

The event from 1967 you are mixed-up with is called The Six Day War. That was when Nasser & crew declared war on Israel and then got their rear ends handed to them. Especially in Operation Focus. Jordan lost the West Bank it had annexed in the previous 1948 war at that time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Focus

Not to be confused with the later Yom Kippur War with its massive tank battles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War

The Palestinian Cause was started by Haj Amin al-Husseini in 1920 when he became Grand Mufti. He went on to join Hitler and Himmler and participate in the Holocaust. Then start the Arab-Israeli Conflict. Yasser Arafat, as mentioned, was his nephew. The Mufti was just as much an enemy of the Hashemites as he was to the Jews...assassinating Jordan's King Abdullah I for making peace with Israel (1950).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_I_of_Jordan

All basic 2nd year Middle East History 201 stuff.

[blackbird]

On 12/22/2017 at 9:12 PM, marcus said:

You seem to be in total denial.

Over 95% of the world condemned US' action. 95% of the world is not the Arab League and Europe.

Even in the US, 2 to 1 Americans oppose the embassy move to Jerusalem. 

The only backers of US actions are Zionists and Christian Zionists who cheer for "the Jews" to return to Jerusalem so that they could die.

 

"so that they could die"??? not sure what that means.

Nothing wrong with Zionists.  If I understand it, Zionism was a movement for the return of the Jews to their historic land of Israel.

Christian Zionists would be those christians who believe this is a reasonable idea.

Most of the world hates Israel because they don't accept the God of the Bible or the Bible.  So they don't accept the concept that God gave the land of Israel to them for perpetuity as the Bible states.  No surprise.

We can see the hostility of Iran and other Arab nations toward Israel.   Some of these countries are not terribly friendly toward the west either.  I don't see any benefit in siding with them against Israel.  Kind of like shooting yourself in the foot.  To be opposed to Israel puts one on the losing side as far as I can see, even if 95% of the nations are against Israel. They always have been so nothing new there.  The Jews have been persecuted for 2000 years. 

Edited January 12, 2018 by blackbird

[marcus]

21 minutes ago, blackbird said:

"so that they could die"??? not sure what that means.

Nothing wrong with Zionists.  If I understand it, Zionism was a movement for the return of the Jews to their historic land of Israel.

Christian Zionists would be those christians who believe this is a reasonable idea.

Christian Zionists are looking to gather Jews in Israel to bring back Jesus, get the rapture rolling, and engage in mass slaughter of those who won't be saved.

21 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Most of the world hates Israel because they don't accept the God of the Bible or the Bible.  So they don't accept the concept that God gave the land of Israel to them for perpetuity as the Bible states.  No surprise.

I am surprised that there are still people who are oblivious to what Israel has been doing.

Why were so many people against Apartheid South Africa? It was because of the racist behaviour of the Apartheid government towards the black South Africans. Where they had one set of rules for the blacks and one for the whites.

The same thing has been happening between the Zionists and the Palestinians.

21 minutes ago, blackbird said:

We can see the hostility of Iran and other Arab nations toward Israel.   Some of these countries are not terribly friendly toward the west either.  I don't see any benefit in siding with them against Israel.  Kind of like shooting yourself in the foot.  To be opposed to Israel puts one on the losing side as far as I can see, even if 95% of the nations are against Israel. They always have been so nothing new there.  The Jews have been persecuted for 2000 years. 

How about not siding with Iran, Arab nations or Israel? How about siding with international human rights laws and the moral values we say we have. There is nothing wrong with opposing anything that is bad. Even if the two bad things dislike each other. 

Jews do not have a monopoly on being victims or for being persecuted. What the Nazis did to them is no excuse for them to treat the Palestinians the way they are doing. The Palestinians should not suffer for what the Europeans did to the Jews. 

[taxme]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

"so that they could die"??? not sure what that means.

Nothing wrong with Zionists.  If I understand it, Zionism was a movement for the return of the Jews to their historic land of Israel.

Christian Zionists would be those christians who believe this is a reasonable idea.

Most of the world hates Israel because they don't accept the God of the Bible or the Bible.  So they don't accept the concept that God gave the land of Israel to them for perpetuity as the Bible states.  No surprise.

We can see the hostility of Iran and other Arab nations toward Israel.   Some of these countries are not terribly friendly toward the west either.  I don't see any benefit in siding with them against Israel.  Kind of like shooting yourself in the foot.  To be opposed to Israel puts one on the losing side as far as I can see, even if 95% of the nations are against Israel. They always have been so nothing new there.  The Jews have been persecuted for 2000 years. 

So, what would be the reason for pretty much the whole world hating Israel? Is it because the whole world just hates Jews for the fun of it or could it be for other reasons? 

The Jews have been persecuting the gentiles for even longer than 2000 years and they still do today. The Jews here hate me because I question and challenge Israel and Judaism. All they do is attack me and call me an anti-semite. This just shows me that Jews are bigots and very intolerant towards anyone who dares question their precious Israel. They make it appear as though Israel can do no wrong, and that Judaism is a sacred cow and taboo subject which must never be questioned. Just about the whole world does not see it that way anymore. 

[blackbird]

8 hours ago, taxme said:

So, what would be the reason for pretty much the whole world hating Israel? Is it because the whole world just hates Jews for the fun of it or could it be for other reasons? 

The Jews have been persecuting the gentiles for even longer than 2000 years and they still do today. The Jews here hate me because I question and challenge Israel and Judaism. All they do is attack me and call me an anti-semite. This just shows me that Jews are bigots and very intolerant towards anyone who dares question their precious Israel. They make it appear as though Israel can do no wrong, and that Judaism is a sacred cow and taboo subject which must never be questioned. Just about the whole world does not see it that way anymore. 

Yes the whole world hates Jews with a few exceptions.  They have been persecuting them for nearly 2000 years in Europe and various places.  However, unless one is prepared to accept the Bible as God's word, I doubt if we will get anywhere.

[blackbird]

10 hours ago, marcus said:

Christian Zionists are looking to gather Jews in Israel to bring back Jesus, get the rapture rolling, and engage in mass slaughter of those who won't be saved.

I am surprised that there are still people who are oblivious to what Israel has been doing.

Why were so many people against Apartheid South Africa? It was because of the racist behaviour of the Apartheid government towards the black South Africans. Where they had one set of rules for the blacks and one for the whites.

The same thing has been happening between the Zionists and the Palestinians.

How about not siding with Iran, Arab nations or Israel? How about siding with international human rights laws and the moral values we say we have. There is nothing wrong with opposing anything that is bad. Even if the two bad things dislike each other. 

Jews do not have a monopoly on being victims or for being persecuted. What the Nazis did to them is no excuse for them to treat the Palestinians the way they are doing. The Palestinians should not suffer for what the Europeans did to the Jews. 

South Africa was a systemic racist country with laws against blacks.   Israel is not a racist country.  The laws are not systematically against non-Jews.  Israel does what it does only to defend it's existence in a sea of hostile neighbours, who deny it's right to exist.

[Argus]

11 hours ago, marcus said:

Why were so many people against Apartheid South Africa? It was because of the racist behaviour of the Apartheid government towards the black South Africans. Where they had one set of rules for the blacks and one for the whites.

The same thing has been happening between the Zionists and the Palestinians

And in every Muslim country there is one law for Muslims and another law for others, and that bothers you not even the slightest, tiniest little bit...

 

[Rue]

12 hours ago, marcus said:

 

Jews do not have a monopoly on being victims or for being persecuted. What the Nazis did to them is no excuse for them to treat the Palestinians the way they are doing. The Palestinians should not suffer for what the Europeans did to the Jews. 

The topic is supposed to be about Jerusalem. You will notice once again Marcus uses it as a platform, a pretext, an excuse, to attack Jews and engage in comments that insult ALL Jews and have nothing to do with the Jerusalem issue. This individual engages in blatant and classic anti-semitism. He uses a conflict between the Israeli government and Palestinian terrorist groups and the PA as an excuse to insult Jewish victims of Nazism. Its pathetic and it of course attracts more participants like Taxme who like Marcus and Hudson Jones et al, engage in comments about all Jews in a way that assigns all  Jews negative characteristics.

The exercise of invoking the word JEWS then assigning all Jews the same description as Marcus has done to then engag ein holocaust inversion, i.e., accusing them of being Nazis is anti-semitic. Marcus does not discuss the issue. He calls Jews Nazis.

That is what makes his words anti-semitic. He like Taxme are no victims. They are pathetic bigots using this forum to ferment hatred between not just Palestinians and Israelis but all people against Jews. Its a pathetic attempt to exploit Palestinians as a cover to hate Jews. Marcus uses Palestinians to ferment hatred against Jews, no more, no less.

 

[marcus]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

South Africa was a systemic racist country with laws against blacks.   Israel is not a racist country.  The laws are not systematically against non-Jews.  Israel does what it does only to defend it's existence in a sea of hostile neighbours, who deny it's right to exist.

Israel is a systemic racist country with laws against Palestinians. Israel treats both the Palestinians living in Israel differently than Jews and the Palestinians living in the Occupied Territories different than the illegal Jewish settlers who have stolen Palestinian land. So you are absolutely wrong.

Difference in treatment of Palestinians in Israel vs Jews in Israel

1) Citizenship laws - Palestinians are not allowed to have their families immigrate to Israel. If a Palestinian marries someone from outside of Israel, they would not be able to bring them over to live in Israel. Whereas any Jew, anywhere around the world has automatic citizenship in Israel.

2) Civil Rights - Palestinians are discriminated against regularly. Israeli High Court Justice Theodor Or wrote in The Report by the State Commission of Inquiry into the Events of October 2000:

The Arab citizens of Israel live in a reality in which they experience discrimination as Arabs. This inequality has been documented in a large number of professional surveys and studies, has been confirmed in court judgments and government resolutions, and has also found expression in reports by the state comptroller and in other official documents. Although the Jewish majority’s awareness of this discrimination is often quite low, it plays a central role in the sensibilities and attitudes of Arab citizens. This discrimination is widely accepted, both within the Arab sector and outside it, and by official assessments, as a chief cause of agitation.

According to the U.S. State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices:

• "Israeli-Arab advocacy organizations have challenged the Government's policy of demolishing illegal buildings in the Arab sector, and claimed that the Government was more restrictive in issuing building permits in Arab communities than in Jewish communities, thereby not accommodating natural growth."
• "In June, the Supreme Court ruled that omitting Arab towns from specific government social and economic plans is discriminatory. This judgment builds on previous assessments of disadvantages suffered by Arab Israelis."
• "Israeli-Arab organizations have challenged as discriminatory the 1996 "Master Plan for the Northern Areas of Israel," which listed as priority goals increasing the Galilee's Jewish population and blocking the territorial contiguity of Arab towns."
• "Israeli Arabs were not required to perform mandatory military service and, in practice, only a small percentage of Israeli Arabs served in the military. Those who did not serve in the army had less access than other citizens to social and economic benefits for which military service was a prerequisite or an advantage, such as housing, new-household subsidies, and employment, especially government or security-related industrial employment. The Ivri Committee on National Service has issued official recommendations to the Government that Israel Arabs not be compelled to perform national or "civic" service, but be afforded an opportunity to perform such service"."
• "According to a 2003 University of Haifa study, a tendency existed to impose heavier prison terms to Arab citizens than to Jewish citizens. Human rights advocates claimed that Arab citizens were more likely to be convicted of murder and to have been denied bail."
• "The Orr Commission of Inquiry's report […] stated that the 'Government handling of the Arab sector has been primarily neglectful and discriminatory,' that the Government 'did not show sufficient sensitivity to the needs of the Arab population, and did not take enough action to allocate state resources in an equal manner.' As a result, 'serious distress prevailed in the Arab sector in various areas. Evidence of distress included poverty, unemployment, a shortage of land, serious problems in the education system, and substantially defective infrastructure.'"
• "According to a 2005 study at Hebrew University, three times more money was invested in education of Jewish children as in Arab children."

3) Property Ownership Discrimination - Jewish National Fund (JNF) owns a portion of land in Israel. Majority of this land belonged to Palestinians who lost their land after a bizarre Absentee Property Law was past, because the owners of the lands were 'absent'. As many know, these "absent" Palestinians were driven out of Israel by the Israeli military and terrorist groups such as Irgun. Land owned by JNF is only given to Jews. Palestinians only have access to purchase only 6.5% of land in Israel. There is discrimination there as well as it's almost impossible for Palestinians to receive permits to build new homes. In essence, Palestinians are able to live in small portions of Israel, while the Jews can live anywhere in Israel.

4) Allocation of government funds - When it comes to education, health and other funding, Palestinians regularly receive a lot less funds from the Israeli government than Jewish Israelis. Have a look at this report from The Guardian where this is well documented. 

Treatment of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories vs Jewish Settlers in the Occupied Territories

This can be a long post. Everything from the use of natural resources, to land, to economic access, to discriminatory laws. If you want to learn more about the racist and discriminatory treatment of Palestinians and the difference in treatement of Jews, I would recommend that you start here, on the HRW site.