Where is the NDP

[PIK]

Party of the people ,party of the worker, do they agree with trudeau or not??

[Argus]

3 hours ago, PIK said:

Party of the people ,party of the worker, do they agree with trudeau or not??

About what?

[PIK]

Taxing small business out of business.

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, PIK said:

Party of the people ,party of the worker, do they agree with trudeau or not??

I doubt it, Trudeau is a right-winger.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, PIK said:

Taxing small business out of business.

AFAIC, small business means a small handful of employees as in less than five so tax the snot out of the real rich first.  If we can't make ends meet with them then there's a good chance we'll never make ends meet no matter which way we turn.

But of course any real lefty knows that we need a real full cost accounting system that starts with a deep inventory of our stock of natural capital (including sink resources). Personally I'm pretty certain we're well into deficit territory and have been for a long long time now and that everyone should be paying more not less. 

[Bonam]

39 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Personally I'm pretty certain we're well into deficit territory and have been for a long long time now and that everyone should be paying more not less. 

Feel free to send an extra check to the government for the amount you feel you underpaid. 

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Bonam said:

Feel free to send an extra check to the government for the amount you feel you underpaid. 

Don't in-kind contributions count? They should.  Its unconscionable how much free labour is expected of people in addition to their money.

[Ash74]

7 hours ago, eyeball said:

I doubt it, Trudeau is a right-winger.

Trudeau is only a right wingers compared to the teachings of Marx. At most he is center but not right.

[August1991]

13 hours ago, PIK said:

Party of the people ,party of the worker, do they agree with trudeau or not??

With this new federal leader Singh, the federal NDP is about to win many urban Anglo votes - taking them from our urban, hip tattooed PM.

If the kids votes. Or as they say, whatever.

[PIK]

The new leader seemed pretty happy with the death of the pipeline, screw the worker. The old dippers must be spinning in thier graves. Time for them to join the green party.

[eyeball]

8 hours ago, Ash74 said:

Trudeau is only a right wingers compared to the teachings of Marx. At most he is center but not right.

I suppose according to a sliding ideological scale.  Myself I prefer the original meaning for right and left as a measure of influence in a political system where the center point is the seat of power, the right is where the influential innies (Bay Street for example) sit and the left is for the outies (Main Street) who have little to no influence.

Whatever else Trudeau is he is also in power and I'm pretty sure that's Bay Street on his right not a union hall.

[Rue]

7 hours ago, August1991 said:

With this new federal leader Singh, the federal NDP is about to win many urban Anglo votes - taking them from our urban, hip tattooed PM.

If the kids votes. Or as they say, whatever.

What the phack is an urban Anglo vote?  Does it have two humps or one.

[Rue]

9 hours ago, Ash74 said:

Trudeau is only a right wingers compared to the teachings of Marx. At most he is center but not right.

The only thing Trudeau centres around is his reflection of his image. 

11 hours ago, eyeball said:

Don't in-kind contributions count? They should.  Its unconscionable how much free labour is expected of people in addition to their money.

I'd start a revolution just don't show up in your land rover.

 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

What the phack is an urban Anglo vote? 

I think it's something to do with fishing...

[Rue]

6 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I think it's something to do with fishing...

Interesting he's too politically appropriate to use the word white. Can you imagine if I suggested the new NDP leader got elected because of the concentrated Siekh vote he was able to get in his 32,000  phone in votes.

[August1991]

On 10/12/2017 at 11:25 AM, Rue said:

What the phack is an urban Anglo vote?  Does it have two humps or one.

Montreal, like Lemberg once was, is still a functioning, civilised, multicultural, multilingual city - a place where people can speak different languages, yet live together.

In Toronto? Everyone speaks boring Canadian English.

In Montreal, people speak sophisticated language, yet live together in peace.

In Calgary? In Newfoundland? Been there, done that.

 

Edited October 14, 2017 by August1991

[Argus]

13 hours ago, August1991 said:

Montreal, like Lemberg once was, is still a functioning, civilised, multicultural, multilingual city - a place where people can speak different languages, yet live together.

In Toronto? Everyone speaks boring Canadian English.

I take it you haven't been there since about 1970.

[Rue]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

I take it you haven't been there since about 1970.

Alice in Wonderland. Need I say more.

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Rue said:

Alice in Wonderland. Need I say more.

Really you do, yes.

[taxme]

On 10/12/2017 at 12:36 AM, August1991 said:

With this new federal leader Singh, the federal NDP is about to win many urban Anglo votes - taking them from our urban, hip tattooed PM.

If the kids votes. Or as they say, whatever.

As an Anglo I would rather vote for the Green Party first before I would vote for the NDP. I cannot believe that Anglos would vote this guy in as leader. I cannot imagine this guy becoming the PM of Canada and then start travelling around the world wearing a turban on his head. They will ask Is this guy from Canada or Pakistan? Are Canadians fast losing their minds?  

[taxme]

17 hours ago, August1991 said:

Montreal, like Lemberg once was, is still a functioning, civilised, multicultural, multilingual city - a place where people can speak different languages, yet live together.

In Toronto? Everyone speaks boring Canadian English.

In Montreal, people speak sophisticated language, yet live together in peace.

In Calgary? In Newfoundland? Been there, done that.

 

1. But you better speak french if you want to live and work in Montreal, and should have a french looking name. Anglos are not welcome in a multicultural unilingual french speaking Quebec anymore. The french do not want to live together with the Anglos. They want them all gone. 

2. English is the official language of Ontario. How could that be considered boring? So, if the french in Quebec speak french only would that be considered boring to you then? 

3. French is nowhere near to be considered a sophisticated language in Quebec. The french there speak a form of slang french. Even the french from France cannot understand the french of Quebec at times when they speak. There is no language peace in Quebec, just language tension just waiting to explode. 

4. Lucky for them that they don't have to deal or need to work in french. Now that is language peace and people learning to live and speak one language only together in peace. Imagine living in Quebec and being told that you must speak french or else leave. 

[Rue]

45 minutes ago, taxme said:

1. But you better speak french if you want to live and work in Montreal, and should have a french looking name. Anglos are not welcome in a multicultural unilingual french speaking Quebec anymore. The french do not want to live together with the Anglos. They want them all gone. 

2. English is the official language of Ontario. How could that be considered boring? So, if the french in Quebec speak french only would that be considered boring to you then? 

3. French is nowhere near to be considered a sophisticated language in Quebec. The french there speak a form of slang french. Even the french from France cannot understand the french of Quebec at times when they speak. There is no language peace in Quebec, just language tension just waiting to explode. 

4. Lucky for them that they don't have to deal or need to work in french. Now that is language peace and people learning to live and speak one language only together in peace. Imagine living in Quebec and being told that you must speak french or else leave. 

1. Anglo is a not so veiled term for white English Quebecers. It refers to British ancestry Quebecers. French Quebecers don't really care if they stay or leave, what they do want is that they speak French.

2.English and French are the official languages of Ontario, Its a bilingual province along with Manitoba and New Brunswick. Quebec is not. Clearly August does not understand why Quebec is unilingual and what that means.

3. I have no idea what makes a language sophisticated. English and French are simply languages. The word sophisticated is a subjective term and so without being defined further is meaningless. The French in Quebec has many dialects. There is CBC French used on television, there are many dialects. Quebec French can depend on the city, town, region. Its not slang per se anymore than English is. You misunderstand accent or use of certain words. The use of certain words or accents makes the language different then French in Sudbury, Timmins, St. Hyacinthe in Manitoba, the French used by Acadiens or Metis. Doesn't make it slang. It may in fact make the language as its spoken in small towns colloquial or anqituated. It is true regional dialects of French contain language that people in France turn their nose up at. Parizeau the phony head of the Parti Quebecois used a fake Parisenne accent like some snots in English Canada do trying to make their tone of language sound Royal. French in Quebec has lots of regional words but they are not necessarily slang. In fact there is probably less slang in French than English because French vocabulary is easier to abbreviate making slang not as necessary but its there. But to say all Quebec French is slang is like saying the same of Canadian or Australian English. As for language tension you are right its always there. Tourists who do not speak French outside Montreal find themselves faced with hostility when they don't speak French. You won' find that tension in Hull or Montreal but you will find it outside those cities. However Quebecois can be friendly. Its ridiculous to say they all hate English. They appreciate English people speaking French. Whenever I speak French back in Quebec they speak English to me and I laugh saying hey I spent years learning French let me use it and they say no we speak better English stop. Some if it is tension, a lot of it is just showing politeness. Quebecois see their language as endangered-sometimes its simply a fear of assimilation.

4. I lived in Quebec and was born there. I left because although I was bilingual and brought up that way the Parti Quebecois had open anti semites and racists such as Parizeau. Rene Levesque was a genuine person. He was a WW2 journalist who was there when the concentration camps were liberated. He was by no means a bigot. He was a man of the people and very very personable. Very modest. Everyone liked him including us Anglos who disagreed with him. He was a gentleman. He was a federalist Liberal. He was the Energy Minister in Quebec for the provincial Liberals under Jean Lesage. He felt the federal government ripped of Quebec over an energy deal with Newfoundland. Joey Smallwood of Newfoundland felt the same in reverse. This caused Levesque to go separatist. His party had moderates, progressive liberals, conservatives, socialists, it was a hodge podge. You have to understand that before the Parti Quebecois the Union Nationale ran Quebec like a banana republic and this party under Marcel Duplessis used the Catholic Church to control the masses. Duplessis identified with Mussolini during WW2.

The sentiment for Quebec independence was a direct result of Americans coming in and running the Quebec asbestos mines their largest industry and making every one feel inferior. There was and still remains as well an unresolved conflict with losing the war to the British. It may as well have happened yesterday.

What makes August's comments incredibily stupid if not ignorant and no doubt you will not grasp is Quebec has always had two solitudes as written by so many Quebec writers such as Faulkner and Richler and even Pierre Vallieres when he wrote "White niggers of  America".

The Anglos of Quebec were predominantly WASP and wealthy and then there were an elite French society. Anglos were WASP with some Catholic in there, French were Catholic. Irish came to Quebec to escape the famine. Their children to be exact were the ones who came. They were orphans and the French Catholic Church arranged their adoptions to French Quebec families who let them keep their Irish family names. Thus for the example the name "Johnson" which using your terminology sounds English but can be very French Canadian.

Irish being Catholic were looked down by the Anglo Wasps and French Catholics did not indentify with them unless they spoke French which some did and many later on did not.

Minorities such as Irish, Jamaicans/West Indians  Chinese Jews, Italians, served as a buffer between the Anglo Wasps and French Catholics.

We physically lived in the middle and it was we minorities that made the province multi cultural. We were a melting pot.

Both sides discriminated against us forcing us to become independent and never dependent on either.

Being a minority meant bigoted comments by the WASPS and French Catholics equally. This notion Montreal was a wonderful tolerant city is a crock of crap. It was always political. In fact it was the Montreal Canadiens hockey club that kept all Quebecers united, nothing else. Hockey took on mythical levels of unity. It literally meant the same thing to us all and when you walked in the forum, it was not just a place of hockey it was a passion play where we all agreed and for that 3 hours shared a dream.

In Montreal you wore that Habs uniform whether you were Anglo, Irish, French, you were a God.

That was our true religion that kept us from a civil war and the Richard riots shows you just how serious hockey was in terms of what it meant to the identity of Quebec.

When the Quebecois came in they engaged in systemic discrimination using the protection of language as a cover for institutionalizing discrimination against anyone other than a French Quebecer called a purelaines. That meant you had to be descended from someone white from France.

It meant if you spoke French but you were an Arab, a Haitiens, an African, a Vietnamese, a Jew anyone from a French speaking country that came to Quebec you were NOT excepted and you still are not.

There is a kind of open racism in Quebec that is permitted as its couched as support of protecting Quebec culture.

If the NDP leader thinks he can walk into Quebec and get votes from the existing NDP voters I myself think he is in for a rude surprise. I think Trudeau is counting heavily on a Quebecois vote and minority vote in that province and usually those two votes are polarized. Anglophones in Quebec preferred the Liberals federally but next time around I would not be surprised if many more vote Conservative.

All that said, Montrealers like me die Montrealers. Its always in our heart. I love Montreal, I have zero problem with Quebecois wanting to speak French-I do think however some Quebecois are bigots like you Taxme and hide it. In your case you call it protecting endangered white people they call it protecting endangered Quebecois. You both suck as far as I am concerned. You both hate people for the very same reasons.

That said, I happen to think there are a lot of good Quebecois who have contributed to Canada and been at the forefront of progressive laws. I respected Rene Levesque because he never once like Parizeau or some others in his party engaged in bigotry and took on his partry's bigots, Parizeau was an anti semite racist pig.  Daniel Johnson Jr was a good Premier. The guy now in Quebec is trying his hardest in a province that is known for corruption and stubborn unions.

I want Quebec staying in Canada but its taken more than its given in federal payments, that is a fact. Quebecois the ones who do all the talking about separating are two faced. They have no problems collecting federal benefits. None.

That said French Quebecers fought in WW2 although many were known for resisting the draft like Pierre Trudeau.

The VanDoos (22d regiment) have a proud history and still do.

I have no problems with Quebecois asking me to speak French. No one forced it on me. I wanted to speak French. Its just common courtesy. Most Quebecois I know spoke English. All we minorities left in the late 70's because the economy collapsed and there were no jobs for us and discriminating against non Francophone names was acceptable in those days.

However I have as many Quebecois friends who had to leave to for the same reason Ironically French Quebecers have always done well when they leave Quebec. Its the separatist ones remaining behind that didn't do as well. Quebec universities were always excellent, i.e., Laval, McGill, Universite de Montreal, Universite de Sherbrooke, Concordia, (originally Loyola and Sir George Williams), then Universite de Quebec.

Universite de Montreal had a leading medical school with world wide fame in Neurology. 

[taxme]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

1. Anglo is a not so veiled term for white English Quebecers. It refers to British ancestry Quebecers. French Quebecers don't really care if they stay or leave, what they do want is that they speak French.

2.English and French are the official languages of Ontario, Its a bilingual province along with Manitoba and New Brunswick. Quebec is not. Clearly August does not understand why Quebec is unilingual and what that means.

3. I have no idea what makes a language sophisticated. English and French are simply languages. The word sophisticated is a subjective term and so without being defined further is meaningless. The French in Quebec has many dialects. There is CBC French used on television, there are many dialects. Quebec French can depend on the city, town, region. Its not slang per se anymore than English is. You misunderstand accent or use of certain words. The use of certain words or accents makes the language different then French in Sudbury, Timmins, St. Hyacinthe in Manitoba, the French used by Acadiens or Metis. Doesn't make it slang. It may in fact make the language as its spoken in small towns colloquial or anqituated. It is true regional dialects of French contain language that people in France turn their nose up at. Parizeau the phony head of the Parti Quebecois used a fake Parisenne accent like some snots in English Canada do trying to make their tone of language sound Royal. French in Quebec has lots of regional words but they are not necessarily slang. In fact there is probably less slang in French than English because French vocabulary is easier to abbreviate making slang not as necessary but its there. But to say all Quebec French is slang is like saying the same of Canadian or Australian English. As for language tension you are right its always there. Tourists who do not speak French outside Montreal find themselves faced with hostility when they don't speak French. You won' find that tension in Hull or Montreal but you will find it outside those cities. However Quebecois can be friendly. Its ridiculous to say they all hate English. They appreciate English people speaking French. Whenever I speak French back in Quebec they speak English to me and I laugh saying hey I spent years learning French let me use it and they say no we speak better English stop. Some if it is tension, a lot of it is just showing politeness. Quebecois see their language as endangered-sometimes its simply a fear of assimilation.

4. I lived in Quebec and was born there. I left because although I was bilingual and brought up that way the Parti Quebecois had open anti semites and racists such as Parizeau. Rene Levesque was a genuine person. He was a WW2 journalist who was there when the concentration camps were liberated. He was by no means a bigot. He was a man of the people and very very personable. Very modest. Everyone liked him including us Anglos who disagreed with him. He was a gentleman. He was a federalist Liberal. He was the Energy Minister in Quebec for the provincial Liberals under Jean Lesage. He felt the federal government ripped of Quebec over an energy deal with Newfoundland. Joey Smallwood of Newfoundland felt the same in reverse. This caused Levesque to go separatist. His party had moderates, progressive liberals, conservatives, socialists, it was a hodge podge. You have to understand that before the Parti Quebecois the Union Nationale ran Quebec like a banana republic and this party under Marcel Duplessis used the Catholic Church to control the masses. Duplessis identified with Mussolini during WW2.

The sentiment for Quebec independence was a direct result of Americans coming in and running the Quebec asbestos mines their largest industry and making every one feel inferior. There was and still remains as well an unresolved conflict with losing the war to the British. It may as well have happened yesterday.

What makes August's comments incredibily stupid if not ignorant and no doubt you will not grasp is Quebec has always had two solitudes as written by so many Quebec writers such as Faulkner and Richler and even Pierre Vallieres when he wrote "White niggers of  America".

The Anglos of Quebec were predominantly WASP and wealthy and then there were an elite French society. Anglos were WASP with some Catholic in there, French were Catholic. Irish came to Quebec to escape the famine. Their children to be exact were the ones who came. They were orphans and the French Catholic Church arranged their adoptions to French Quebec families who let them keep their Irish family names. Thus for the example the name "Johnson" which using your terminology sounds English but can be very French Canadian.

Irish being Catholic were looked down by the Anglo Wasps and French Catholics did not indentify with them unless they spoke French which some did and many later on did not.

Minorities such as Irish, Jamaicans/West Indians  Chinese Jews, Italians, served as a buffer between the Anglo Wasps and French Catholics.

We physically lived in the middle and it was we minorities that made the province multi cultural. We were a melting pot.

Both sides discriminated against us forcing us to become independent and never dependent on either.

Being a minority meant bigoted comments by the WASPS and French Catholics equally. This notion Montreal was a wonderful tolerant city is a crock of crap. It was always political. In fact it was the Montreal Canadiens hockey club that kept all Quebecers united, nothing else. Hockey took on mythical levels of unity. It literally meant the same thing to us all and when you walked in the forum, it was not just a place of hockey it was a passion play where we all agreed and for that 3 hours shared a dream.

In Montreal you wore that Habs uniform whether you were Anglo, Irish, French, you were a God.

That was our true religion that kept us from a civil war and the Richard riots shows you just how serious hockey was in terms of what it meant to the identity of Quebec.

When the Quebecois came in they engaged in systemic discrimination using the protection of language as a cover for institutionalizing discrimination against anyone other than a French Quebecer called a purelaines. That meant you had to be descended from someone white from France.

It meant if you spoke French but you were an Arab, a Haitiens, an African, a Vietnamese, a Jew anyone from a French speaking country that came to Quebec you were NOT excepted and you still are not.

There is a kind of open racism in Quebec that is permitted as its couched as support of protecting Quebec culture.

If the NDP leader thinks he can walk into Quebec and get votes from the existing NDP voters I myself think he is in for a rude surprise. I think Trudeau is counting heavily on a Quebecois vote and minority vote in that province and usually those two votes are polarized. Anglophones in Quebec preferred the Liberals federally but next time around I would not be surprised if many more vote Conservative.

All that said, Montrealers like me die Montrealers. Its always in our heart. I love Montreal, I have zero problem with Quebecois wanting to speak French-I do think however some Quebecois are bigots like you Taxme and hide it. In your case you call it protecting endangered white people they call it protecting endangered Quebecois. You both suck as far as I am concerned. You both hate people for the very same reasons.

That said, I happen to think there are a lot of good Quebecois who have contributed to Canada and been at the forefront of progressive laws. I respected Rene Levesque because he never once like Parizeau or some others in his party engaged in bigotry and took on his partry's bigots, Parizeau was an anti semite racist pig.  Daniel Johnson Jr was a good Premier. The guy now in Quebec is trying his hardest in a province that is known for corruption and stubborn unions.

I want Quebec staying in Canada but its taken more than its given in federal payments, that is a fact. Quebecois the ones who do all the talking about separating are two faced. They have no problems collecting federal benefits. None.

That said French Quebecers fought in WW2 although many were known for resisting the draft like Pierre Trudeau.

The VanDoos (22d regiment) have a proud history and still do.

I have no problems with Quebecois asking me to speak French. No one forced it on me. I wanted to speak French. Its just common courtesy. Most Quebecois I know spoke English. All we minorities left in the late 70's because the economy collapsed and there were no jobs for us and discriminating against non Francophone names was acceptable in those days.

However I have as many Quebecois friends who had to leave to for the same reason Ironically French Quebecers have always done well when they leave Quebec. Its the separatist ones remaining behind that didn't do as well. Quebec universities were always excellent, i.e., Laval, McGill, Universite de Montreal, Universite de Sherbrooke, Concordia, (originally Loyola and Sir George Williams), then Universite de Quebec.

Universite de Montreal had a leading medical school with world wide fame in Neurology. 

1. Good, let them leave. They are nothing more than a bunch of sucking leaches on the rest of English/Anglo Canada.  Long overdue for them to get the hell out of Canada. 

2. Quebec was allowed to declare itself unilingual french with no problem but let some other province try to declare itself unilingual English and the chit would hit the fan. Only the french can get away with that one. And what is sad is that our useless dead beat Anglo politicians let them do it without a whimper. The Anglophones in quebec are now second class citizen's in a supposedly bilingual country. What a joke this country has become thanks to the french and the liberal English speaking traitors. The french pretty much have taken over Ontario and Manitoba and NB. I guess that Nova Scotia and Saskatchewan will be next to go bilingual. Sad indeed. 

3. It should be the Anglophones in Canada who should start to fear and worry that their language could be endangered and will be forced to assimilate into a multicultural dogs breakfast. 

4. I also was born in quebec but I because of the anti-Anglophone sentiment that took over after the PQ came to power. That was the end for the Anglophones in quebec. And yet the rest of Canada kisses their french azzes. What more can be said. 

[Rue]

17 hours ago, taxme said:

1. Good, let them leave. They are nothing more than a bunch of sucking leaches on the rest of English/Anglo Canada.  Long overdue for them to get the hell out of Canada. 

2. Quebec was allowed to declare itself unilingual french with no problem but let some other province try to declare itself unilingual English and the chit would hit the fan. Only the french can get away with that one. And what is sad is that our useless dead beat Anglo politicians let them do it without a whimper. The Anglophones in quebec are now second class citizen's in a supposedly bilingual country. What a joke this country has become thanks to the french and the liberal English speaking traitors. The french pretty much have taken over Ontario and Manitoba and NB. I guess that Nova Scotia and Saskatchewan will be next to go bilingual. Sad indeed. 

3. It should be the Anglophones in Canada who should start to fear and worry that their language could be endangered and will be forced to assimilate into a multicultural dogs breakfast. 

4. I also was born in quebec but I because of the anti-Anglophone sentiment that took over after the PQ came to power. That was the end for the Anglophones in quebec. And yet the rest of Canada kisses their french azzes. What more can be said. 

In regards to 1 I am a Habs fan. That would cause me problems.

In regards to 2, BC, Saskatchewan, Alberta Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, PEI as well as Quebec are unilingual.

In regards to 3,  I don' think English is threatened in Canada, North America or across the world. If I were you I would take a laxative though.

In regards to 4,  I do not condone some  of the politics in Quebec and the appeasement by the federal government of Quebec on some policies but my criticism would apply to all political parties equally.

.You like to define whites as endangered but you then exclude from whites all kinds of whites that don't fit your narrow definition of white so I do not take what you say seriously. I also think you interchange the word Anglo for the narrow sub category of whites you really defend. You can call yourself an Anglo, but I only think you speak for neo Nazis and not any other kind of Anglos..

The fears you have of "whites", (you and your neo Nazis pals)  being assimilated, ignores one thing. Its the kind of assimilation happening to other peoples equally.

Yah in your crude terms if the natural progression of assimilation continues, we all eventually will me a caramel mix of all features.

If you were to take every physical characteristic you associate with race and put it in a computer, which Walt Disnbey studios did to come up with Pocahontas for its movie,   in fact looked  like Jennifer Lopez.

I have zero problem with that look. Zero.

 

[August1991]

On 10/14/2017 at 11:15 AM, Argus said:

I take it you haven't been there since about 1970.

Argus, in Toronto, to succeed a person must speak English. Everyone in Toronto aspires to speak (boring) Canadian English.

In Montreal, still nowadays, early 21st century, to succeed a person can speak French or English. Imagine.

=====

Pierre Trudeau once said that Quebec nationalists would make Montreal a Danzig of the New World.

Well, IMHO, Montreal is still a Lemberg.