NAFTA negotiations.

[bush_cheney2004]

26 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

...  The U.S. has within it the capacity to provide a high standard of living and upward mobility to the masses and to be a beacon of hope to the rest of the world.  Instead, it is acting penurious, fearful, and vindictive, for no good reason.  The long term costs for this approach may be much higher than many Americans realize.  I hope that Trump will essentially cease to be taken seriously by mainstream America and the vast majority of the voting public.  Some find his antics amusing or tough, but make no mistake, they are destructive.  We'll all be paying for the clean up, Americans more than anyone else.  Just hope it's not past the point of no return.   

 

Such a point does not exist.    The U.S. became a "beacon" with the most landed legal and illegal immigrants despite all the "penurious" things it has done in the past and will do in the future....decisions made by Americans, not foreign nationals who want to curb or harness American capacities and capabilities that far exceed their own nation's.    But it's not all bad news...they still get to use the the many things that America develops through investment, innovation, and risk taking.

 

[taxme]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

With comments like that it’s clear that America needs Canada like never before.  It’s getting very close to being too late to address serious, possibly extinction level climate change, but there are also shorter term domestic concerns such as gun violence and public safety.  You have to raise up your disenfranchised, set policy that expands your middle class, and push the society towards sustainable lifestyles.  This is beyond US Canada relations, though trade policy should be progressive for both countries.  I realize some want to move backwards, clingy to institutionalized racism/sexism and irresponsible growth that enhances the interests of the rich at the expense of the masses.  That’s not what the US, Canada or the world should be about.  

I am Canadian. Why would you think that I am an American?   

 

20 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Trudeau is absolutely right.  If you think we’re trading our rich culture for McCulture, you can take off, eh!

Sounds like your farmers want our supply management.  If only America was run by Ottawa. Americans would be so much happier. 

I still want to know as to what you meant by rich culture

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, taxme said:

I am Canadian. Why would you think that I am an American?   

 

I still want to know as to what you meant by rich culture

That’s one of the reasons I know you’re not Canadian.  Visit Newfoundland or a gailic village in Cape Breton, maybe take in a kitchen party.  Spend time in Quebec or the far north.  

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Such a point does not exist.    The U.S. became a "beacon" with the most landed legal and illegal immigrants despite all the "penurious" things it has done in the past and will do in the future....decisions made by Americans, not foreign nationals who want to curb or harness American capacities and capabilities that far exceed their own nation's.    But it's not all bad news...they still get to use the the many things that America develops through investment, innovation, and risk taking.

 

I hope it’s not just foreigners that want to curb Trump.  Hopefully there’s enough opposition in America, perhaps even within his own party. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

  I hope it’s not just foreigners that want to curb Trump.  Hopefully there’s enough opposition in America, perhaps even within his own party. 

 

There is always opposition in America....America thrives on conflict...and opportunity.   It has always been thus.

Thankfully, that's what makes it so different from Canada.

[Zeitgeist]

40 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

There is always opposition in America....America thrives on conflict...and opportunity.   It has always been thus.

Thankfully, that's what makes it so different from Canada.

Canada is probably a more diverse society than the U.S.   We’re not a melting pot.  That brings different challenges, but I don’t relish the conflict in the U.S., which is a less peaceful society. 

[bush_cheney2004]

13 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canada is probably a more diverse society than the U.S.   We’re not a melting pot. 

 

Clearly this is not the case based on population, total number of immigrants, number of languages spoken, number of churches/mosques/temples/etc., media production, literature.

There are more mosques in New York City than in the entire nation of Canada.

The U.S. is more like a gumbo than a homogeneous melting pot.

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Clearly this is not the case based on population, total number of immigrants, number of languages spoken, number of churches/mosques/temples/etc., media production, literature.

There are more mosques in New York City than in the entire nation of Canada.

The U.S. is more like a gumbo than a homogeneous melting pot.

Well nationally it’s hard to say.  Toronto is often cited as the most diverse major city, with more than half its population foreign born.  I like the gumbo metaphor though. It’s a cool image for America.  

[DFCaper]

I think David Orchard has an interesting perspective on the negotiations.  He was on Cross country checkup.  He calls in at ~23 minutes point.

 

Thinks we should bail

 

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/checkup/what-grade-are-you-giving-justin-trudeau-on-the-nafta-file-1.4806234

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, DFCaper said:

I think David Orchard has an interesting perspective on the negotiations.  He was on Cross country checkup.  He calls in at ~23 minutes point.

 

Thinks we should bail

 

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/checkup/what-grade-are-you-giving-justin-trudeau-on-the-nafta-file-1.4806234

Agreed.  Mexico obviously negotiated from a position of fear.  Behind Canada's back, in what is supposed to be a tripartite deal, Mexico and the U.S. agreed to a six year sunset clause and the reckless abandonment of the Chapter 19 dispute resolution.  There must be no, or very little reduction of Canadian dairy subsidies unless they are matched by a reduction in U.S. subsidies.  Supply management has been an effective mechanism in Canada for protecting farmers' livelihoods that American farmers would probably be wise to adopt.  In any event, supply management is a domestic matter not to be decided by a trade agreement.  On cultural protections there can be no compromise, except perhaps on the broadcasting of U.S. commercials during the Super Bowl.  Canadians may like American Super Bowl adds, but broadcasters and producers of media content have the right to make money from advertising to pay for programming.  Chapter 19 must be retained to ensure fairness in trade disputes, period.  If Canada's negotiators cannot strike a fair deal that works for Canadians with the Trump team, then Canada will have to terminate negotiations and state the reasons for walking away publicly.  

Trump would be hard-pressed to get NAFTA through Congress without Canada.  Quite simply, it cannot be NAFTA without Canada.  It would be a bilateral deal with Mexico.  The scrapping of NAFTA would take a minimum of six months (by law), at which point the mid-terms would be over.  At that point it's a new ball game.  The worst case scenario is that NAFTA is scrapped and we revert to old trade rules, protected by the WTO.  Until a more fair and reasonable regime is in place in the U.S., we would live with this situation.  Not ideal but better than the alternative.  If Trump doubles down and lays on 25 percent auto tariffs, they will be countered by Canada with equal tariffs on U.S. auto imports.  At that point Trump would have a new mess on his hands, and not a made in Canada mess.  In the meantime, Canada will seek new markets with knowledge of the U.S.'s unfair approach to trade.  Apart from all of this trade business, Trump is facing serious challenges, legal and political, on a range of matters.  If he continues to behave belligerently and erratically, his authority will be further weakened.  The worst part about Trump's belligerence for America, on trade as in other matters, is the continued loss of credibility internationally. 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[taxme]

20 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s one of the reasons I know you’re not Canadian.  Visit Newfoundland or a gailic village in Cape Breton, maybe take in a kitchen party.  Spend time in Quebec or the far north.  

I hope it’s not just foreigners that want to curb Trump.  Hopefully there’s enough opposition in America, perhaps even within his own party. 

Boy, are you one silly dude. I was born in Montreal and know all about Quebec. That should make me a Canadian, eh? ? And I also know a lot about Newfoundland. My mother and wife were born in Newfoundland. Now the question I have to ask you is are you Canadian?  

I am a Canadian foreign supporter of Trump. How's that for you? 

Dammit boy, answer my question will you? What Canadian "rich culture" are you talking about? Multicultural culture? Asian culture? What? Stop avoiding the question, will you? 

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

Boy, are you one silly dude. I was born in Montreal and know all about Quebec. That should make me a Canadian, eh? ? And I also know a lot about Newfoundland. My mother and wife were born in Newfoundland. Now the question I have to ask you is are you Canadian?  

I am a Canadian foreign supporter of Trump. How's that for you? 

Dammit boy, answer my question will you? What Canadian "rich culture" are you talking about? Multicultural culture? Asian culture? What? Stop avoiding the question, will you? 

Sorry dude but I don’t believe you. 

[-TSS-]

I was kind of wondering which of the three couples of countries have the most intertwined relationship: Australia/New Zealand, Britain/Ireland or Canada/USA.

[Army Guy]

17 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Agreed.  Mexico obviously negotiated from a position of fear.  Behind Canada's back, in what is supposed to be a tripartite deal, Mexico and the U.S. agreed to a six year sunset clause and the reckless abandonment of the Chapter 19 dispute resolution.  There must be no, or very little reduction of Canadian dairy subsidies unless they are matched by a reduction in U.S. subsidies.  Supply management has been an effective mechanism in Canada for protecting farmers' livelihoods that American farmers would probably be wise to adopt.  In any event, supply management is a domestic matter not to be decided by a trade agreement.  On cultural protections there can be no compromise, except perhaps on the broadcasting of U.S. commercials during the Super Bowl.  Canadians may like American Super Bowl adds, but broadcasters and producers of media content have the right to make money from advertising to pay for programming.  Chapter 19 must be retained to ensure fairness in trade disputes, period.  If Canada's negotiators cannot strike a fair deal that works for Canadians with the Trump team, then Canada will have to terminate negotiations and state the reasons for walking away publicly.  

Trump would be hard-pressed to get NAFTA through Congress without Canada.  Quite simply, it cannot be NAFTA without Canada.  It would be a bilateral deal with Mexico.  The scrapping of NAFTA would take a minimum of six months (by law), at which point the mid-terms would be over.  At that point it's a new ball game.  The worst case scenario is that NAFTA is scrapped and we revert to old trade rules, protected by the WTO.  Until a more fair and reasonable regime is in place in the U.S., we would live with this situation.  Not ideal but better than the alternative.  If Trump doubles down and lays on 25 percent auto tariffs, they will be countered by Canada with equal tariffs on U.S. auto imports.  At that point Trump would have a new mess on his hands, and not a made in Canada mess.  In the meantime, Canada will seek new markets with knowledge of the U.S.'s unfair approach to trade.  Apart from all of this trade business, Trump is facing serious challenges, legal and political, on a range of matters.  If he continues to behave belligerently and erratically, his authority will be further weakened.  The worst part about Trump's belligerence for America, on trade as in other matters, is the continued loss of credibility internationally. 

Lets not forget that at the beginning of all this NAFTA BS, our government was ready to do the same thing, so we could get the better deal...And why is everyone so hung up on this dairy thing, first of all most of the dairy is in Quebec, second it inflates our dairy costs to the consumer to pay for all of this...How is it that US dairy is so cheap ? do we have more processes to it ? or are we just sub g the industry....Frankly I tired of paying more, for most products because Canadian industry has us by the balls and jacks up the prices...Look at fuel, Dairy, poultry, meat, vehs, clothing....Sure I get it, it means jobs, and money flowing around our nation, but at what point to we stop propping up industries that can not compete with the US...besides Justin already made concession on dairy for the TPP. so why not go further....

 

And WTF is cultural protections.....we had this discussion on this forum already, what Canadian cultural points do we need to preserve, that the US really want to steal....the secret to our maple syrup, Hockey...oopps already done....Don't sit there and tell me it's CBC radio.....or TV...everyone loves Canadian movie content....or listening to CBC radio on a long drive....Would anybody even miss Canadian movies or the CBC....anyone...

the only thing I see worth dying on the NAFTA hill is Chap 19....

I do think Justin could use those points in winning concession from the US to eliminate or reduce all tariffs....including softwood...

[Wilber]

As far a supply management goes, you should do a bit of research on your own. Basically it sets a price that reflects the cost of production without subsidies or over supply that drives prices down to a point where farmers need to be subsidized or go broke, as in the US.

Cultural protections would mean the likes of Rupert Murdoch couldn't buy up and control Canadian media outlets. Forget CBC, what if Global and or CTV turned into Fox News North?

CBC may not be without any biases but it and our other MSM outlets are far more impartial than the likes of FOX,  CNN or MSNBC.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Wilber

[bush_cheney2004]

So basically, Trudeau and Freeland want to keep as many/much of the tariffs, non-tariff barriers, dumping, IP theft, and CanCon as they can.

...because Canada is special !

The irony is that Canada affords no protection for American cultural products (e.g. Super Bowl ads) while demanding protections for Canadian culture.

Edited September 7, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

So basically, Trudeau and Freeland want to keep as many/much of the tariffs, non-tariff barriers, dumping, IP theft, and CanCon as they can.

...because Canada is special !

The irony is that Canada affords no protection for American cultural products (e.g. Super Bowl ads) while demanding protections for Canadian culture.

Any Canadians who have lived for a while appreciate greatly hearing a Canadian voice in the media.  My favourite stations are the CBC, TVO and America’s HBO because I value thoughtful programming.  America doesn’t need cultural protection because of the massive scale of its media domination.  When many Americans look at Canadians they see themselves and another northern state, but Canadians see themselves as different and value their differences, much as we value and respect much about America.  I suggest that Americans try to learn more about Canada because it is different, interesting, and valuable. Whether you care about it or not, Canadians care about it.  

Supply management has always been about providing stability for farmers.  It works better than subsidies.  Ultra low dairy prices hurt dairy farmers.  Subsidies encourage over production which falsely lowers dairy prices. We value our agriculture sector in Canada, in Quebec as much as in any other province. Maybe the US should try supply management.  In any event, it’s a system that has worked well domestically in Canada irrespective of international trade. 

As for your IP theft claims, they are exaggerations.  Stop being the pot that calls the kettle black.  The US has massive subsidies and has raised tariffs.  Some protections for vulnerable sectors may remain necessary in a trade agreement, but don’t pretend that the US doesn’t have them. 

A trade agreement must be in Canada’s interest or it’s not worth having.  Trade is balanced between our countries and a fair deal that serves both countries is possible.  We have one called NAFTA.  At least it has worked quite well between Canada and the U.S.   If anything, the U.S. has had an advantage and the dispute resolution process in NAFTA wasn’t strong enough. 

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Any Canadians who have lived for a while appreciate greatly hearing a Canadian voice in the media.  My favourite stations are the CBC, TVO and America’s HBO because I value thoughtful programming.  America doesn’t need cultural protection because of the massive scale of its media domination.  When many Americans look at Canadians they see themselves and another northern state, but Canadians see themselves as different and value their differences, much as we value and respect much about America.  I suggest that Americans try to learn more about Canada because it is different, interesting, and valuable. Whether you care about it or not, Canadians care about it. 

 

Non-sequitur  vis-a-vis trade negotiations.    I have learned a lot about Canadians, and it is not all good.   The "scale" argument has also been made for Canadian cheating, proposing that it hardly impacts the American behemoth, but ignores the underlying contention(s) and conflict.

 

Quote

Supply management has always been about providing stability for farmers.  It works better than subsidies.  Ultra low dairy prices hurt dairy farmers.  Subsidies encourage over production which falsely lowers dairy prices. We value our agriculture sector in Canada, in Quebec as much as in any other province. Maybe the US should try supply management.  In any event, it’s a system that has worked well domestically in Canada irrespective of international trade.

 

Sure...it is a direct tariff and non-tariff barrier to other nations' exports...New Zealand has been hammering Canada on supply management long before Trump came along, and Canada was forced to make concessions for CETA and CPTPP.

 

Quote

As for your IP theft claims, they are exaggerations.  Stop being the pot that calls the kettle black.  The US has massive subsidies and has raised tariffs.  Some protections for vulnerable sectors may remain necessary in a trade agreement, but don’t pretend that the US doesn’t have them.

 

Canadian IP theft is not only real, it has been reiterated as a threat against U.S. pharma and "cultural" products should Trump persist.   Stealing from America is a Canadian Charter right.

 

Quote

A trade agreement must be in Canada’s interest or it’s not worth having.  Trade is balanced between our countries and a fair deal that serves both countries is possible.  We have one called NAFTA.  At least it has worked quite well between Canada and the U.S.   If anything, the U.S. has had an advantage and the dispute resolution process in NAFTA wasn’t strong enough. 

 

Agreed....Canada should leave if so hard done by.

NAFTA is obsolete...Canada's cheating can no longer be tolerated regardless of trade balances.   Transshipments have seriously harmed the NA steel industry, and Canada only moved on this issue after Trump threatened and imposed tariffs.

Canada's attitude seems to be leave NAFTA alone, providing little leadership except for unrelated "feminist agenda" fantasies.

[Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Non-sequitur  vis-a-vis trade negotiations.    I have learned a lot about Canadians, and it is not all good.   The "scale" argument has also been made for Canadian cheating, proposing that it hardly impacts the American behemoth, but ignores the underlying contention(s) and conflict.

 

 

Sure...it is a direct tariff and non-tariff barrier to other nations' exports...New Zealand has been hammering Canada on supply management long before Trump came along, and Canada was forced to make concessions for CETA and CPTPP.

 

 

Canadian IP theft is not only real, it has been reiterated as a threat against U.S. pharma and "cultural" products should Trump persist.   Stealing from America is a Canadian Charter right.

 

 

Agreed....Canada should leave if so hard done by.

NAFTA is obsolete...Canada's cheating can no longer be tolerated regardless of trade balances.   Transshipments have seriously harmed the NA steel industry, and Canada only moved on this issue after Trump threatened and imposed tariffs.

Canada's attitude seems to be leave NAFTA alone, providing little leadership except for unrelated "feminist agenda" fantasies.

That’s all bullshit.  America benefits as much as or more than Canada from its current trade flow with Canada.  Trump has put that valuable trade relationship at grave risk through his imposition of tariffs and his bellicose and overblown critique of our trade relationship.  Canada will NOT accept a trade deal that is more imbalanced in the US’s favour and we will work around an irresponsible US foreign policy that hurts workers and families.  Smarten up and stop spouting dangerous disinformation.  

We all see Trump’s divide and conquer, might is right approach to trade and we won’t accept those terms, ever.  Better instead to reroute trade away from the US, however hurtful and unnecessary, than to accept an even more damaging bad trade deal. Hopefully there really are “adults in the room” in these negotiations on the US side who act in good faith to broker a fair deal.  Otherwise find other suckers to exploit. 

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

That’s all bullshit.  America benefits as much as or more than Canada from its current trade flow with Canada.  Trump has put that valuable trade relationship at grave risk through his imposition of tariffs and his bellicose and overblown critique of our trade relationship.  Canada will NOT accept a trade deal that is more imbalanced in the US’s favour and we will work around an irresponsible US foreign policy that hurts workers and families.  Smarten up and stop spouting dangerous disinformation. 

 

Sorry, but countering your position is not "bullshit".   It is a fact that Canada moved to stop transshipments from China.   It is a fact that the CRTC refused to protect American IP rights (e.g. Super Bowl ads).  It is a fact that Canada has lost many NAFTA Chapter 11 challenges.  It is a fact that New Zealand, Brazil, and other nations have brought WTO actions against Canada's tariffs and non-tariff barriers long before Trump became U.S. president.

You are entitled to your own biased opinion, but you don't get your own facts.

 

Quote

We all see Trump’s divide and conquer, might is right approach to trade and we won’t accept those terms, ever.  Better instead to reroute trade away from the US, however hurtful and unnecessary, than to accept an even more damaging bad trade deal. Hopefully there really are “adults in the room” in these negotiations on the US side who act in good faith to broker a fair deal.  Otherwise find other suckers to exploit. 

 

Agreed...something I have stated in this forum for many years.

Canada should stop being so damn dependent on exports to and capital investment from a single nation...the original anti-NAFTA argument.

 

[Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Sorry, but countering your position is not "bullshit".   It is a fact that Canada moved to stop transshipments from China.   It is a fact that the CRTC refused to protect American IP rights (e.g. Super Bowl ads).  It is a fact that Canada has lost many NAFTA Chapter 11 challenges.  It is a fact that New Zealand, Brazil, and other nations have brought WTO actions against Canada's tariffs and non-tariff barriers long before Trump became U.S. president.

You are entitled to your own biased opinion, but you don't get your own facts.

 

 

Agreed...something I have stated in this forum for many years.

Canada should stop being so damn dependent on exports to and capital investment from a single nation...the original anti-NAFTA argument.

 

Do I really have to cite the multiple US court challenges to the NAFTA dispute resolutions and WTO decisions in Canada’s favour on softwood, aerospace, agriculture, and other matters?  No one with a modicum of education on such matters is fooled.  The US took advantage of Canada before, tying us up in costly court battles or simply ignoring the decisions of the rules based system.  Trump is seeking much greater advantage now.  We’re not buying what your selling, so take your snake oil elsewhere.  

On one matter we agree: Canada has depended too much on our trade relationship with the US.  It had largely made sense to do so because of proximity, economic similarity, rule of law, and because we believed we could trust Americans.  That trust has taken a major and perhaps irreparable hit.  I don’t suggest you fuck up the relationship any further, but that’s your government’s choice, not ours. 

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Do I really have to cite the multiple US court challenges to the NAFTA dispute resolutions and WTO decisions in Canada’s favour on softwood, aerospace, agriculture, and other matters?

 

Yes...you do, because Canada has been busted before by the very same processes.   Canada is not always innocent in such matters.

 

Quote

 Trump is seeking much greater advantage now.  We’re not buying what your selling, so take your snake oil elsewhere. 

 

President Trump has a much larger purpose in mind....one that goes far behind grab-assing with Canada and Mexico over NAFTA.   Trump is attacking globalism and the very expensive "post WW2 order" that Canada and others want Americans to keep paying for.

Trump will continue to goad Trudeau into quitting NAFTA...exactly what he wants, but Trudeau doesn't have the stones to do it.

 

Quote

On one matter we agree: Canada has depended too much on our trade relationship with the US.  It had largely made sense to do so because of proximity, economic similarity, rule of law, and because we believed we could trust Americans.  That trust has taken a major and perhaps irreparable hit.  I don’t suggest you fuck up the relationship any further, but that’s your government’s choice, not ours. 

 

It will always be America's choice.....most Americans don't know or care about the special "relationship".   The UK is the USA's closest ally...not Canada.

Don't worry, Canadians will still be able to watch (and steal) American media just like before.

Edited September 7, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Yes...you do, because Canada has been busted before by the very same processes.   Canada is not always innocent in such matters.

 

 

President Trump has a much larger purpose in mind....one that goes far behind grab-assing with Canada and Mexico over NAFTA.   Trump is attacking globalism and the very expensive "post WW2 order" that Canada and others want Americans to keep paying for.

Trump will continue to goad Trudeau into quitting NAFTA...exactly what he wants, but Trudeau doesn't have the stones to do it.

 

 

It will always be America's choice.....most Americans don't know or care about the special "relationship".   The UK is the USA's closest ally...not Canada.

Don't worry, Canadians will still be able to watch (and steal) American media just like before.

The US is NOT our closest ally.  The UK is. We share the same Queen and political system and don’t you forget it.  Trump is seriously fucking up the international order and reducing America’s importance, destroying relationships with allies that value liberal democracy, cozying up to dictators, empowering Russia, and creating an opening for China to become the lead superpower.  How stupid is Trump?  Maybe you should forget your revolution and return to mother Britain to take care of you, because you’re governing like spoiled babies. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

The US is NOT our closest ally.  The UK is. We share the same Queen and political system and don’t you forget it.  Trump is seriously fucking up the international order and reducing America’s importance, destroying relationships with allies that value liberal democracy, cozying up to dictators, empowering Russia, and creating an opening for China to become the lead superpower.  How stupid is Trump?

 

Agreed...please inform Canadian news media that the USA is not Canada's closest ally...as they are misinformed on the matter.

I don't care about your political system, but apparently mine is of much interest to you.

China should be a superpower...Canada will never be a superpower.

 

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Agreed...please inform Canadian news media that the USA is not Canada's closest ally...as they are misinformed on the matter.

I don't care about your political system, but apparently mine is of much interest to you.

China should be a superpower...Canada will never be a superpower.

 

I love Canada as it is and don’t envy the mess that America is becoming.  I wish we didn’t have to deal with your bullshit, but you’re neighbors so we have to make the best of it.  Actually, I’m not going to disparage America as a whole.  We’ll take Obama and the majority of Americans who mean well and are good people.  The likes of Trump and his greedy, damaging cronies can take a hike. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

I love Canada as it is and don’t envy the mess that America is becoming.  I wish we didn’t have to deal with your bullshit, but you’re neighbors so we have to make the best of it.  Actually, I’m not going to disparage America as a whole.  We’ll take Obama and the majority of Americans who mean well and are good people.  The likes of Trump and his greedy, damaging cronies can take a hike. 

 

Take Obama, eh?   Then Canada's memory isn't very good....

 

Quote

OTTAWA–A "Buy American" rider in the U.S. economic stimulus package that would block the use of foreign-made iron, steel, textiles and manufactured products is triggering a wave of alarm in Canada and around the world.

"The effect would be catastrophic," said Jean-Michel Laurin, a spokesperson for the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, which has asked the Canadian government to urge U.S. President Barack Obama to reverse the measure.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2009/01/30/obamas_buy_american_plan_blasted.html