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2 hours ago, paxamericana said:

 "Trump told Bloomberg that eliminating tariffs on U.S. car imports would do little to help the U.S. car industry, as European consumers would still not buy American cars. “Their habits, their consumer habits are to buy their cars, not to buy our cars," he said."

So this is the heart of it, even if you do free trade for one product it only benefits the EU. It has to be all or nothing on free trade. If the US give the EU free trade on cars then we loose leverage from them to negotiate other tariff down. Its free trade or back to tariff . Nothing wrong with that. 

As for Canada, you have nothing to leverage us with so you might as well go full free trade.

Exactly, his BS about removing all tariffs was just BS. Don't build what people want and get pissed off because people won't buy what you are making. 

The US has given up on cars and gone all in on trucks and SUV's.  The US has a 25% tariff on its core market of light trucks and Trump bitches about other country's tariffs. 

Europe and Asia don't want trucks and SUV's therefore it is their fault. Capitalist logic Trumpster style.

 

Trump and the US will never go all in on free trade because there are just to many areas where the US is no longer competitive. You should give up on that lie because Trump himself has discredited it too many times.

 

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1 hour ago, Wilber said:

Exactly, his BS about removing all tariffs was just BS. Don't build what people want and get pissed off because people won't buy what you are making. 

The US has given up on cars and gone all in on trucks and SUV's.  The US has a 25% tariff on its core market of light trucks and Trump bitches about other country's tariffs. 

Europe and Asia don't want trucks and SUV's therefore it is their fault. Capitalist logic Trumpster style.

 

Trump and the US will never go all in on free trade because there are just to many areas where the US is no longer competitive. You should give up on that lie because Trump himself has discredited it too many times.

 

I think you're letting your trump derangement syndrome get the best of you. Look its freetrade for everything or nothing at all. That's the only way to ensure nobody has any advantage over the other.  He offered that during the G7 meeting. 

Edited by paxamericana
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2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Very well...Trump should crush what remains of Ontarios dwindling, highest cost auto sector, because it is not competitive (labour costs, energy, taxes, regulations, etc.)

There are no Canadian owned automotive makes....all are foreign.

It’s as expensive to produce cars in Canada as America.  We import more autos from America than the reverse.  The US benefits from a trade surplus with Canada and is seeking to take advantage of Canada through might is right, divide and conquer tactics, period.  They twisted Mexico’s arm into accepting the elimination of a Section 19 dispute resolution mechanism, because that was the only tool Mexico and Canada had to ensure that trade rules were respected.  Even then the Americans would challenge decisions and tie us up in court.  Stand firm against Trump’s unfair trade proposals 

Edited by Zeitgeist
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2 hours ago, paxamericana said:

I think you're letting your trump derangement syndrome get the best of you. Look its freetrade for everything or nothing at all. That's the only way to ensure nobody has any advantage over the other.  He offered that during the G7 meeting. 

Trump whined continually about other country’s auto tariffs when US tariffs were only 2.5%. As soon as he is offered zero tariffs from those he was complaining about, he turns tail and runs away.  Trump is just a poser.

 

Of course he coveniently omits the 25% light truck tariff. Hell will freeze over before that goes because that’s about all the US builds these days.

 

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55 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s as expensive to produce cars in Canada as America.  We import more autos from America than the reverse.  The US benefits from a trade surplus with Canada and is seeking to take advantage of Canada through might is right, divide and conquer tactics, period.  They twisted Mexico’s arm into accepting the elimination of a Section 19 dispute resolution mechanism, because that was the only tool Mexico and Canada had to ensure that trade rules were respected.  Even then the Americans would challenge decisions and tie us up in court.  Stand firm against Trump’s unfair trade proposals 

 

No, it is cheaper to produce in American right-to-work states.   Canada is guilty of protectionist tariffs, non tariff barriers (banks, telcom, CanCon, etc.), dumping, transshipments, and IP theft for decades, regardless of any real or imagined trade surplus. 

Trump is right to challenge Canada on trade and crush its cheating ways.  

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26 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No, it is cheaper to produce in American right-to-work states.   Canada is guilty of protectionist tariffs, non tariff barriers (banks, telcom, CanCon, etc.), dumping, transshipments, and IP theft for decades, regardless of any real or imagined trade surplus. 

Trump is right to challenge Canada on trade and crush its cheating ways.  

Ha ha, you're trying to have honest dialogue on this?  Okay, we could get into aerospace and at least 10 other industries, but let's just start with U.S. farm subsidies (below).  Take special note of ARC, America's answer to Supply Management:

1. Insurance. The largest farm subsidy program is crop insurance run by the USDA's Risk Management Agency. Spending on the program has averaged more than $8 billion a year over the past five years, up from around $3 billion in the early 2000s.8

The program subsidizes both the insurance premiums of farmers and the administrative costs of the 16 private insurance companies that offer the policies. Over the past five years, spending has averaged $6.7 billion a year in premium subsidies, $1.5 billion for insurance company subsidies, $0.3 billion for underwriting losses, and $0.2 billion for federal administrative costs.9

Subsidized insurance is available for more than 100 crops, but corn, cotton, soybeans, and wheat are the main ones. About 80 percent of current policies in force protect against revenue shortfalls, while the other 20 percent protect against yield shortfalls.10

The insurance companies receive direct subsidies for administration, but they also earn inflated profits from the high premiums they charge. The Government Accountability Office has found that crop insurance firms earn high rates of return.11 Agricultural economist Bruce Babcock has found that commissions made by crop insurance agents have increased substantially over the years.12

As for farmers, the USDA pays 62 percent of their premiums, on average.13 Most farmers actually make money on this so-called insurance, receiving more in claims than they pay in premiums. The Congressional Budget Office found that farmers have received $65 billion more in claims than they have paid in premiums since 2000.14 As Babcock noted, this program is not "insurance" at all, but a lottery that is a sure bet.15

Congress has expanded crop insurance to become the largest farm program for a reason. For other farm programs, the identities of the wealthy subsidy recipients are public information, which can be politically embarrassing for farm program supporters. But with insurance subsidies, Congress essentially launders the cash through the insurance firms, which hides the identities of the recipients.

Also, unlike other farm programs, there are no income limits on insurance, so millionaires and billionaires receive subsidies. There are about 20 farm businesses that receive more than $1 million a year from the program.16

2. Agriculture Risk Coverage (ARC). This program pays subsidies to farmers if their revenue per acre, or alternately their county's revenue per acre, falls below a benchmark or guaranteed level. Generally, the lower the prices and revenues, the larger the subsidies. The program covers more than 20 crops, from wheat and corn to chickpeas and mustard seed. ARC subsidies fluctuate, but they were $3.7 billion in 2017.17

3. Price Loss Coverage (PLC). This program pays subsidies to farmers on the basis of the national average price of a crop compared to the crop's reference price set by Congress. The larger the fall in a crop's national price below its reference price, the larger the payout to farmers. Since reference prices are set high, payouts are likely. The program covers more than 20 crops, and payments were $3.2 billion in 2017.18

Farmers choose to participate in either ARC or PLC. At the same time, they can enroll in crop insurance, which has the same general function of keeping farm incomes high. So farmers can double dip from at least two subsidy programs should their crop revenues come up short.19

4. Conservation Programs. The USDA runs numerous farm conservation programs, which cost taxpayers more than $5 billion a year. Some of the programs pay farmers to improve lands that are in production, such as the Conservation Stewardship Program. Other programs pay farmers to take land out of production, such as the Conservation Reserve Program. Like other farm programs, these subsidies are tilted upward, providing the great bulk of benefits to the largest farms.20

Rather than handing out taxpayer cash to farmers, a better way to conserve marginal lands would be to repeal farm subsidies, which encourage excessive cultivation.

5. Marketing Loans. This is a price-guarantee program that began during the New Deal. The original idea was to give farmers a loan at harvest time so that they could hold their crops to sell at a higher price later. But today the program is just another unneeded subsidy that boosts farm incomes. The cost of this program dropped to near zero in 2017, but it was about $160 million in each of the previous two years.21

6. Disaster Aid. The government operates disaster aid programs for various types of farmers, from wheat growers, to livestock producers, to orchard operators. In addition to disaster programs already in law, Congress often distributes more aid after adverse events. Disaster aid amounts fluctuate, but such aid has averaged $1.9 billion a year since 2010.22

7. Marketing and Export Promotion. The Agricultural Marketing Service spends $1.2 billion a year on farm and food promotion activities. The Foreign Agricultural Service spends about $300 million a year on marketing activities for U.S. farm and food products, including operating more than 90 foreign offices.

8. Research and Other Support. Most American industries fund their own research and development, but the government employs thousands of scientists and other experts to aid the agriculture industry. The USDA spends about $3 billion a year on agriculture and food research at more than 100 locations. The department also provides an array of other support services to farmers, such as statistical data and economic studies.

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3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Ha ha, you're trying to have honest dialogue on this?  Okay, we could get into aerospace and at least 10 other industries, but let's just start with U.S. farm subsidies (below).  Take special note of ARC, America's answer to Supply Management:

 

...with plenty more to come.   If the U.S. is not welcomed for excess dairy production, then Canadian dumping is not welcomed either.  

Clear cut all the beetle infested forests you want, but ship them to China instead.   

Canada cannot win a trade war with the United States.

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1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

...with plenty more to come.   If the U.S. is not welcomed for excess dairy production, then Canadian dumping is not welcomed either.  

Clear cut all the beetle infested forests you want, but ship them to China instead.   

Canada cannot win a trade war with the United States.

Your last lines reveal the whole stupid position.  No one wins a trade war.  Every tariff is met with a counter tariff.  Workers, consumers and families are negatively impacted in equal numbers on both sides of the border.  Don’t underestimate Canadian pride and fortitude.  We’ll ride this out like many bigger challenges in the past.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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31 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Your last lines reveal the whole stupid position.  No one wins a trade war. 

 

Thank you...obviously you agree with my stupid position.

 

Quote

...Don’t underestimate Canadian pride and fortitude.  We’ll ride this out like many bigger challenges in the past.  

 

Of course....it is delightful fun to see Canadian pride on full display, with a rare opportunity to fully exercise the throbbing anti-murican resentment and passive aggressive behaviour that existed long before Trump came along.

Trudeau will build a wall made of Canadian cheese...and make those damn Americans pay for it !

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17 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Thank you...obviously you agree with my stupid position.

 

 

Of course....it is delightful fun to see Canadian pride on full display, with a rare opportunity to fully exercise the throbbing anti-murican resentment and passive aggressive behaviour that existed long before Trump came along.

Trudeau will build a wall made of Canadian cheese...and make those damn Americans pay for it !

Why doesn't that idea seem far-fetched anymore?

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8 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Because Obama made Canada pay for the new Detroit River bridge ?

We're recouping the costs through tolls.  Michigan was unable to finance it.

With regard to that last video clip, the message is clear: Canada must walk away from NAFTA negotiations immediately.  Let Trump try to cancel NAFTA.  Maybe he'll get it through Congress before or even after the mid-terms.  Maybe.  Something tells me the legislation gets pulled apart, and piece by piece reassembled with some changes by committees that know something about trade.  Trump can threaten WW3 on trade and even cancel NAFTA and we'd be back to the WTO and most favoured country status.  The tariffs under that regime are fairly nominal.  With regard to TPP, he is right to say that we should be seeking the same labour standards as our reps have called for in NAFTA.  However China isn't part of TPP, so the countries with low labour standards are much smaller.  They will have to revisit labour standards in time.  Canada will need to lean on free trade with other countries, now that the U.S. has gone protectionist.  The U.S. is going to see a rise in consumer costs and take a hit on its exports as the counter-tariffs from China, Europe, Canada et al have their impact.  Yes, Canada is impacted by U.S. tariffs and Canada's economy will undergo a major readjustment of trade, but the result won't be good for the U.S.

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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

We're recouping the costs through tolls.  Michigan was unable to finance it.

 

Yes...Michigan has less revenue since telling Ontario to keep its garbage on the Canadian side of the border.    Ambassador Bridge is still getting the job done for its private owner.

 

Quote

With regard to that last video clip, the message is clear: Canada must walk away from NAFTA negotiations immediately.  Let Trump try to cancel NAFTA.  Maybe he'll get it through Congress before or even after the mid-terms.  Maybe.  Something tells me the legislation gets pulled apart, and piece by piece reassembled with some changes by committees that know something about trade. 

 

In other words, Canada won't do any such thing and is dependent on what another government decides to do on NAFTA.    The leader of the biggest trade union in Canada agrees with Trump, not Trudeau and his inept Liberal Party.   Canadians will live with higher consumer prices and taxes regardless of what happens on NAFTA, just as they have always done (they are still crossing the border for better deals and product selection).

 

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1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Yes...Michigan has less revenue since telling Ontario to keep its garbage on the Canadian side of the border.    Ambassador Bridge is still getting the job done for its private owner.

 

 

In other words, Canada won't do any such thing and is dependent on what another government decides to do on NAFTA.    The leader of the biggest trade union in Canada agrees with Trump, not Trudeau and his inept Liberal Party.   Canadians will live with higher consumer prices and taxes regardless of what happens on NAFTA, just as they have always done (they are still crossing the border for better deals and product selection).

 

Not crossing the border to buy as many goods, no.  Canada will be part of fair trade negotiations.  Otherwise Trump can fall on the sword of Congress and the State governments.  

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4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Not crossing the border to buy as many goods, no.  Canada will be part of fair trade negotiations.  Otherwise Trump can fall on the sword of Congress and the State governments.  

 

Canadians are making more cross border trips after Trump....not less.   Others look forward to lower dairy and poultry prices.

Trudeau does not have the stones to leave NAFTA, so Canada is dependent on what the Americans decide to do...as usual.

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Canadians are making more cross border trips after Trump....not less.   Others look forward to lower dairy and poultry prices.

Trudeau does not have the stones to leave NAFTA, so Canada is dependent on what the Americans decide to do...as usual.

Not true.  Canadians are traveling to other places.  We will protect our farmers and high quality produce, one of many factors that make Canada the best place to live. 

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After carefully listening and analyzing the various statement about who controls the fate of NAFTA (the President or Congress) I have decided nobody has a clue. I've heard so many conflicting scenarios from experts and the delightful Bush-Cheney, I am going to wait and see. If the US decides it is in their best interest to return to pre-FTA rules, fine. We will adapt. In the short term, I may need to buy a car and they may be going cheap if our friends don't want them. I do not foresee any long term damage to US- Canada relations. Without NAFTA, Ms. Barlow may finally not have much to say. Every cloud...

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3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Not true.  Canadians are traveling to other places.  We will protect our farmers and high quality produce, one of many factors that make Canada the best place to live. 

 

Very true....Canadians are traveling to the USA more after Trump...not less.   

 

Quote

Despite all the boycott talk, the number of Canadians returning from overnight trips in the U.S. has actually grown by six per cent, on a seasonally adjusted basis, since Trump's inauguration.

Western Canadians, in particular, are flocking across the border in larger and larger numbers, with double-digit increases recorded in B.C., Alberta and Saskatchewan over that same time.

Here's the national data, at a glance, over the past 10 years on record.

 

canada-tourist-travel-usa.png

 

On average, about twice as many Canadians cross the border than do Americans each year, and Canada has a much smaller population.   

Must be the weather, eh ?

 

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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On 9/1/2018 at 12:32 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Oh, this is still very cynical, and a candid admission that American excesses were quite acceptable as long as "liberal democracy" was being defended by U.S. blood and treasure.   Trump has just exposed the deadbeats for what they are and the "deal with devil" they have long made.

 

 

Happy to do so....and is still far better than hoping and wishing that another nation will make my bed for me...as Canada does.

As for Senator John McCain, I know more than you will ever comprehend, or have ever experienced.

The sad part about all of this is that we the Canadian people are being left out of the loop as always as to what is going on behind closed doors. Is this right? Should Canadians be kept informed as to what they are wheeling and dealing about behind those closed doors? Where is the transparency here anyway? What is the secrets talks all about anyway? All I ever hear from Freeland is that she is having talks and that is it. Are they negotiating for Quebec independence if the NAFTA talks break down? I always thought that we the people had the right to listen to what goes on as far as deals go like NAFTA. But we will only find out after the talks are over and the papers have been signed as to whether it will be good or bad for Canada and Canadians. Taxpayer's never get to play the NAFTA game and never get to bet in the NAFTA game. There is something really wrong with this picture. Why the secrecy? 

It's funny when I watch the Canadian left wing media liberal party like the CBC, CTV and Global who always attack Trump on the talks and how Trump is f'n things up when maybe it could be Canada that is trying to f things up. But we will never know because we the people are being left out as to what they are talking or negotiating about. We must sit outside the closed doors and try to guess as to who is going to get screwed when all is done and settled away. 

From some of the horror stories that I read about McCain's past Americans should all be thankful that traitor to America is dead and gone. I bet Trump will not miss the traitor. While McCain was lying dead in his coffin Trump was alive and well and out playing golf, and rightly so, as Trump was not invited, and was told by McCain before he died to not attend his funeral. I hope Trump had a good golf game that day. LOL. 

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34 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Very true....Canadians are traveling to the USA more after Trump...not less.   

 

 

On average, about twice as many Canadians cross the border than do Americans each year, and Canada has a much smaller population.   

Must be the weather, eh ?

 

One only has to go watch the lineups of vehicles at all of the Washington state borders to see that even despite the low Canadian peso Canadians still love to go to America for their shopping and vacations. I go to Blaine, Wash. for my gas, along with hundreds more Canadians, every two weeks as I do save quite a lot of pesos. The federal and provincial governments are so stupid here where they would rather force Canadians to pay higher prices for their gas instead of lowering their high taxes on gas and keep Canadians at home. Even with the exchange the gas still comes out somewhat still cheaper. It is the governments that cause most Canadians to run to America to do their shopping as they just do not seem to get it that by lowering the price of taxes on everything will allow Canadians to be able to buy at home instead. Get rid of the GST would be a great start that is if they can learn to stop spending tax dollars so foolishly. They appear to be totally clueless has to how capitalism works. They all think socialism is the way too go. 

It is for sure that the winter weather has a lot to do with it. Lucky you. But there are plenty of other countries to go visit in the winter time like Mexico or the Caribbean. Canadians do have a choice here but the problem is that Canadians pretty much have to pay their money in American dollars. Shit, Canadians can never win. I can always thank our dear liberal/ socialist leaders for that. Chuckle-chuckle. 

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55 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Very true....Canadians are traveling to the USA more after Trump...not less.   

 

 

On average, about twice as many Canadians cross the border than do Americans each year, and Canada has a much smaller population.   

Must be the weather, eh ?

 

Sorry, BC, it isn't the weather, although that is a nice bonus. The reason is the friendliness and generosity of the American people.

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On 9/3/2018 at 8:02 AM, Zeitgeist said:

We're recouping the costs through tolls.  Michigan was unable to finance it.

With regard to that last video clip, the message is clear: Canada must walk away from NAFTA negotiations immediately.  Let Trump try to cancel NAFTA.  Maybe he'll get it through Congress before or even after the mid-terms.  Maybe.  Something tells me the legislation gets pulled apart, and piece by piece reassembled with some changes by committees that know something about trade.  Trump can threaten WW3 on trade and even cancel NAFTA and we'd be back to the WTO and most favoured country status.  The tariffs under that regime are fairly nominal.  With regard to TPP, he is right to say that we should be seeking the same labour standards as our reps have called for in NAFTA.  However China isn't part of TPP, so the countries with low labour standards are much smaller.  They will have to revisit labour standards in time.  Canada will need to lean on free trade with other countries, now that the U.S. has gone protectionist.  The U.S. is going to see a rise in consumer costs and take a hit on its exports as the counter-tariffs from China, Europe, Canada et al have their impact.  Yes, Canada is impacted by U.S. tariffs and Canada's economy will undergo a major readjustment of trade, but the result won't be good for the U.S.

OR you could just agree to the terms as laid out by Trump and save your self the hassle. Canada has no real trading partner other than the US. There are no major market for Canadian products other than the US. Think about it, if there were markets for Canadian goods elsewhere, those market would have already establish itself. Government intervention be damn. 

Edited by paxamericana
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