NAFTA negotiations.

[paxamericana]

24 minutes ago, Wilber said:

If Trump is so much into free trade, why is he imposing tariffs right and left?  I don't give a crap if you think it is insulting and unacceptable. Your Agent Orange distributes insults on a daily basis.

On edit

We shouldn’t be insulted when Agent Orange designates our steel and aluminum to be a threat to your national security but you find it insulting and unacceptable if we want to feed ourselves. Give me a friggin break.

 

 

 

 

Steel and alum is a national security threat because without it you can't build tanks and ships. Also its actually meant to target china's transshipment through canada that canada could have stop them selves but nooo. We didn't tariff everyone, not australia and Brasil. Just china and everywhere else china dumped their surplus on. 

Tariff for china's transgression is well deserved.

Second its about time somebody trolled the snowflake intersectionality left. If agent orange has to be called upon then even better.

Edited August 19, 2018 by paxamericana

[bush_cheney2004]

The funny part is that "Agent Orange" herbicide/defoliant was produced and tested for many years in....Canada.

[Wilber]

3 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Steel and alum is a national security threat because without it you can't build tanks and ships. Also its actually meant to target china's transshipment through canada that canada could have stop them selves but nooo. We didn't tariff everyone, not australia and Brasil. Just china and everywhere else china dumped their surplus on. 

Second its about time somebody trolled the snowflake intersectionality left. If agent orange has to be called upon then even better.

There ya go, anyone who doesn’t take to Agent Orange’s insults and tells you to pound sand is a snowflake. How predictable. How boring.

 

[Zeitgeist]

5 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Steel and alum is a national security threat because without it you can't build tanks and ships. Also its actually meant to target china's transshipment through canada that canada could have stop them selves but nooo. We didn't tariff everyone, not australia and Brasil. Just china and everywhere else china dumped their surplus on. 

Second its about time somebody trolled the snowflake intersectionality left. If agent orange has to be called upon then even better.

How do you propose that Canada intervene to prevent China’s so called dumping?  China is reacting to U.S. tariffs. You may not give a shit about our steel and aluminum businesses, but we sure do.   If the U.S. wanted Canada in on tariffs against China, it should have communicated this instead of imposing them on Canada and treating us like collateral damage in your trade war with China. Again, these practices erode trust and make us question our alliance, at a time when the U.S. faces a rising China and could use friends.  Are you trying to push us into an alliance with China?  It’s just reckless foreign affairs. 

[paxamericana]

20 minutes ago, Wilber said:

There ya go, anyone who doesn’t take to Agent Orange’s insults and tells you to pound sand is a snowflake. How predictable. How boring.

 

Because its true? Trump isn't the one tearing the country apart, its snowflake lefty who thinks intersectionality should reign over politics. Ever been in the military, or any major team sport? They can tell you it ain't about you. Its about the team. Get over your self. Nobody cares about you enough to cause you all these percieved injustice. 

Also you can't fix past injustice. Find individual cases of where there is injustice and we will be right along fighting it. But don't tell me society failed you.

Edited August 19, 2018 by paxamericana

[Wilber]

 Canada is taking measures to restrict dumping from China and others because it is detrimental to our industry as well. China isn’t.happy about it. They say we should be punished as a US colony so it is a no win position for us. 55% of Canadian steel imports in 2017 were from the US, not China. 

[Wilber]

3 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Because its true? Trump isn't the one tearing the country apart, its snowflake lefty who thinks intersectionality should reign over politics. Ever been in the military, or any major team sport? They can tell you it ain't about you. Its about the team. Get over your self. Nobody cares about you enough to cause you all these percieved injustice. 

What a laugher. Everything about Trump is about Trump.

[paxamericana]

2 minutes ago, Wilber said:

 Canada is taking measures to restrict dumping from China and others because it is detrimental to our industry as well. China isn’t.happy about it. They say we should be punished as a US colony so it is a no win position for us. 55% of Canadian steel imports in 2017 were from the US, not China. 

Okay then why don't canada make that number lower? Obviously milk farmers who are now worth 5 million each is more important. 

[Wilber]

3 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Okay then why don't canada make that number lower? Obviously milk farmers who are now worth 5 million each is more important. 

Is it a matter of national security or not? Either it is or he is just using to exert pressure during NAFTA negotiations. Make up your mind.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Okay then why don't canada make that number lower? Obviously milk farmers who are now worth 5 million each is more important. 

 

Indeed....the stupid part about Canada's position on these things (dumping, transshipments, IP theft, culture protectionism, and tariff barriers) is that they only impact a small part of the NAFTA trade portfolio, admitting that Trump is right about all of them.

[Zeitgeist]

14 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Indeed....the stupid part about Canada's position on these things (dumping, transshipments, IP theft, culture protectionism, and tariff barriers) is that they only impact a small part of the NAFTA trade portfolio, admitting that Trump is right about all of them.

If they’re of such little import to the U.S., why does Trump make so much of them, especially knowing that trade is balanced with Canada and that the U.S. has a surplus with Canada on dairy, steel and aluminum?  The only interpretation we can have is that he is seeking even greater advantage.  It’s always about taking the extreme position, hoping that by doing so, even when that position isn’t properly defended, the negotiators will win more concessions. It’s a transparent and tired extortionist tactic right out of the Art of the Deal.  We’ve all seen it before and are tired of watching the belly flops.  Be responsible and negotiate equitably or don’t bother coming to the table. 

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

If they’re of such little import to the U.S., why does Trump make so much of them, especially knowing that trade is balanced with Canada and that the U.S. has a surplus with Canada on dairy, steel and aluminum?  The only interpretation we can have is that he is seeking even greater advantage.

 

Of course Trump is seeking advantage, and Canada has given him the leverage to do so.   Nobody is forcing Canada to stay in NAFTA....Canada's politicians have threatened to leave several times to get domestic political support.  

What is making Canada stay if not such a huge dependence on exports to the U.S. market ?

Edited August 19, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

What makes you think NAFTA is widely supported in Canada?  It never has been.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

What makes you think NAFTA is widely supported in Canada?  It never has been.

 

Already discussed...and mocked before:    Liberal Party hated FTA/NAFTA...now they love it ?

[Michael Hardner]

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/05/09/nafta-support-canada-us-pew-survey_n_16513822.html

Quote

The Pew Research survey finds that of those who took part in the poll, 76 per cent of Canadian respondents, 60 per cent of Mexicans and 51 per cent of Americans supported NAFTA.

That's from 2017.

[Zeitgeist]

That's surprising and definitely wasn't the case for many years.  My guess is that the question is problematic.  I would say more Canadians than Americans support free trade, but they weren't questioned about supporting free trade, so NAFTA represents, at least in part, a surrogate for free trade.  I am surprised though.  The U.S. has tried to screw over Canada multiple times through NAFTA.  Mexico has certainly benefited the most from NAFTA.  I'd say it's a dead heat between Canada and the U.S. in terms of how much each country has benefitted.  Trump will whine about how hard done by America is on trade.  It's the same old refrain.

[paxamericana]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Someone on here said there’s no cultural difference between Canada and the U.S. apart from Quebec.  That’s the crux of the problem in these discussions.  Interlocutors don’t understand the complexity of what is being disputed in trade.  French Acadia in the Maritime provinces is different from Quebec.  Newfoundland is vastly different from Ontario or even Nova Scotia.  The indigenous groups vary widely east to west and especially compared to the far north.  Trade experts in both Canada and the U.S. know what’s at stake.  In a small country like Canada, we have to work to preserve our First Nations, francophone, and other cultures.  We value them. Agriculture isn’t something we’re just going to scrap to save a little on milk.  In fact, milk, meat, and produce cost roughly  the same in New York as in Ontario.  There’s simply no favorable argument for giving up our culture and industries.  

Focus on a fair trade agreement in the areas where we can establish agreement.  This is how it’s done.  Trump and some other commentators throw out selective data to get a reaction, but all this does is erode trust.  We want to carve out a fair deal, but Canadians and to some extent the rest of the world have been given ample reasons for cynicism.  It’s not too late to turn this around, but we need honest arguments, good faith, and fair negotiations. 

Tis me the biggest interlocutors on this forum, I said there is no cultural difference. Look, from America's perspective, Canada is the Sudetenland of Germany, like Austria  or more recently Ukraine to Russia. Canada has a population roughly the size of Texas, just let that sink in. So while you're advocating for this multicultural fabric of society made up by a hodgepodge of pseudo groups ... Canada is therefore not a country and should be absorbed. Free trade is free trade. There isn't this give and take relationship, free market should dictate such specialization based on comparative advantage not artificial trade barriers. 

[Zeitgeist]

12 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Tis me the biggest interlocutors on this forum, I said there is no cultural difference. Look, from America's perspective, Canada is the Sudetenland of Germany, like Austria  or more recently Ukraine to Russia. Canada has a population roughly the size of Texas, just let that sink in. So while you're advocating for this multicultural fabric of society made up by a hodgepodge of pseudo groups ... Canada is therefore not a country and should be absorbed. Free trade is free trade. There isn't this give and take relationship, free market should dictate such specialization based on comparative advantage not artificial trade barriers. 

Good luck with that attitude.  You just revealed the ignorance and belligerence of your approach.  Pseudo groups, huh?  I can't believe your vulgarity.  I'll tell you that there will be no such "trade agreement" supporting such conditions, ever.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Good luck with that attitude.  You just revealed the ignorance and belligerence of your approach.  Pseudo groups, huh?  I can't believe your vulgarity.  I'll tell you that there will be no such "trade agreement" supporting such conditions, ever.

 

Great news...buh-bye NAFTA...hello Canadian peso.

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Great news...buh-bye NAFTA...hello Canadian peso.

I've got news for you:  You're one person; so is Trump.  And I'd say his time is running down.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

I've got news for you:  You're one person; so is Trump.  And I'd say his time is running down.

 

Agreed...I am only one of many people who has witnessed the Canadian peso before....and it will happen again without free trade with the United States.

Trump is just another American president, and hardly the first to confront Canada on trade practices.  Get use to it.

 

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Good luck with that attitude.  You just revealed the ignorance and belligerence of your approach.  Pseudo groups, huh?  I can't believe your vulgarity.  I'll tell you that there will be no such "trade agreement" supporting such conditions, ever.

Struck a nerve? Wasn't trying to hide it...have you seen my profile. See it is me who find Canadians who are anti-american or anti-intercollusion fascinating. I mean Canada wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for you nay sayers. I'm just surprised Canada was't annex a long time ago. But i digress. Anyways trade should be used as a tool to integrate the Canadian economy further and further into America's hegemony. Then, then that's when we mail you your new driver liscense. This is America's final solution.

Edited August 20, 2018 by paxamericana

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, paxamericana said:

Struck a nerve? Wasn't trying to hide it...have you seen my profile. See it is me who find Canadians who are anti-american or anti-intercollusion fascinating. I mean Canada wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for you nay sayers. I'm just surprised Canada was't annex a long time ago. But i digress. Anyways trade should be used as a tool to integrate the Canadian economy further and further into America's hegemony. Then, then that's when we mail you your new driver liscense. This is America's final solution.

I think I'm pro-American, in that I think the U.S. has many great qualities and I'd love to see everyone there successful.  What I find worrisome is when commentators don't appreciate the fine grain of things and the differences.  Why would you want to create a monoculture?  Enjoy the vitality and variety.  Vive la difference.  Both countries can learn from each other.  People want options.  The ideal would be for Canadians to be able to take in the American experience, whatever Americans decide that is within U.S. borders, and for Americans to be able to take in the Canadian experience, however Canadians define it.  Both countries should thrive.  I think many Yanks would like to know that if they wanted a refuge in Canada, they could buy or rent one and stay as long as they want.  Canadians sometimes seek out the American experience because of that intensity in places like New York.  The countries aren't that different, but enjoy the differences.  If Trump wants to be the hero in this relationship, he should propose a vision that captures the imagination.  If Americans and Canadians knew that they could live and work anywhere in either Canada or the U.S., respecting the laws, taxation, etc. within each jurisdiction, that would be a win for everyone.  But don't start calling cultures fake that are working hard to hang onto whatever they have left, like the Ojibwe or Inuit or French Acadian.  We've seen where colonialism ends and it's boring.  These are small groups and industries.  It doesn't take much to keep them going.  Disney, Hollywood, and Broadway do good business telling these kinds of stories.  U.S. and Canadian businesses will seek to reduce barriers.  I just recommend making a trade agreement tight on the issues where we agree and flexible or non-existent in the areas we don't.  A bad agreement breeds contempt and isn't worth it.    

[paxamericana]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Why would you want to create a monoculture?  Enjoy the vitality and variety.  Vive la difference.  Both countries can learn from each other.  People want options. 

This is not the american way. We are a melting pot, we strip what ever previous cultural identity you may have and replace it with a uniquely american one. Obviously this isn't done overnight its over the course of1-2 generations. Look at the italian americans, german american, chinese american, korean american, mexican american, african americans... now they are all just american. This reduces intersectionality and  builds a more unified country. Also americans do not look up to other cultures simply because we are the best, american exceptionalism is omnipresent. We think the rest of the world should learn from us and not the other way around. The constitution is basically the holy scripture of why america is as great as it is. It protects individual liberty, something other countries and government keep eroding away. 

Canadians are generally viewed as somewhat effeminate here in america. This is mainly due to your communitarian tendencies of caring about what others think. This is the opposite for us american. We simply do not care about what others may think of us.

Edited August 20, 2018 by paxamericana

[Wilber]

paxamericana shows his true colours. He isn’t about free trade or free anything, just about American hegemony and domination, as well as full of his own Cool Aid. All Americans my ass, blatant racism hasn’t been as alive and well in decades as it is under this president. This president and congress are making a mockery of their vaunted Constitution and its supposed checks and balances. The Scots had a term for it. Toom Tabard. 

 

If you don’t care about what others think about you, why do you hang out on their forums so you can tell them you don’t care about what they think of you?

Edited August 20, 2018 by Wilber