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Compensating Khadr


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12 hours ago, Rue said:

Horse crap. In the areas Canadian soldiers were present it was. You know what Canadian soldiers are? Let me explain. They wear uniforms. They follow the Geneva war convention. They do everything and defend everything Kadr spits on. The damn government won't spend money on vets returning from Afghanistan-they have epidemic rates of suicide and they have the audacity to give 10 million to someone who went to Afghanistan to kill innocent civilians and Canadian soldiers?

They follow the Geneva Convention?  Anyways, if you read any of my posts regarding returning soldiers, you'd know that I support them. Our government uses them as a tool and them throws them away after the fact. The returning soldiers need the most help when they return.

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12 hours ago, Rue said:

Democracy my fn ass. Omar Kadr a victim entitled to 10 million my f'n ass. Trying to justify terrorism my f'n ass.

So now you want to lecture that its ok for Kadr to engage in terrorism because you don't like certain governments.

Oh well then that settles it.

Who the fk cares what you think of Karzai or his corrupt government that does not excuse what Kadr was and remains-an unrepentant terrorist.

Whats the difference of us going in to engage in terrorism  to take out The Taliban, Saddam Hussein, Muamar Qaddafi, and now Assad because we don't like those certain governments?? Come on. Use your brains for once.

And Karzai was key in the 'New Afghanistan' propped up by the west.

The other thing is that much worse people that did time in GITMO are back in the terror scene causing hell for our soldiers.  That seems counter productive does it not?  And I am still not sure his confession was genuine since he admitted to everything under torture. And we know torture is not effective to get to the truth.

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52 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

considering most NATO countries pulled out in 2014, leaving a skeleton force to maintain peace your right, a lot of the country has a Taliban presence.....but that was what the people in the west wanted, they wanted out , even before the job was done.....our government left, leaving Afghan to fend for itself....sorry we can't help you any more, we are leaving because our people grow tired of seeing this conflict on the tv.....what message did that send, sorry we are not reliable to help you out in time of crises, our people do not have the patients.

The fact that while NATO was there the Taliban controlled very little to none of Afghanistan.....

Actually most of us never wanted to go in in the first place. But idiots will be bamboozled and scared by our government telling us that if we don't invade they are going to kill us.  But at least we can see that the notion was never to fully pacify the area.

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14 hours ago, GostHacked said:

So why was Khadr not brought instantly back to Canada after the incident and be tried? Why was he sent off to GITMO instead? 

This is part of the contention. There were worse people who did a stint at GITMO then released back into those troubled nations to cause even MORE trouble. GITMO is all on the up and up right? I mean it's illegal to hold someone in a prison indefinitely without a charge, correct? Extraordinary Renditioning is all on the up and up as well right? 

Even if he actually commit those acts, Canada should have hauled his ass back here and tried him here. GITMO should not have been an option.

What about every civilian that dies from Canada's actions in Afghanistan? Nothing more than an apology of 'oops' while Khadr is sent off to GITMO.

Otherwise he would have been a POW if he was part of another nation's military and treated very differently.

Because ... Harper.

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1 minute ago, Boges said:

This is all a moot point for Good Ole Omar as that money will be taken away by the widow of the man he killed. 

We can only hope.  We can also hope that he does the right thing if he gets the money, which would be handing it over to her.

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20 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I hope that all Canadians take a step back and see this pay out for what it is really.....to correct a mistake by our government and a few actions of people that work within it....i still can't believe that someone is not being held responsible.....

I couldn't agree more, but of course I'm referring to the decisions and deciders that led us into our complicity in the Great Molestation of the Islamic world.

But of course I realize you think we're the only genuinely innocent victims here.

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16 hours ago, capricorn said:

I read somewhere that we should not expect that other countries adopt our style of democracy to the letter. Those countries who are new to democratic government will determine for themselves what type of democracy works best for them with the tools they have at their disposal and the characteristics of the society to be governed. Afghanistan is new to the game and that country will one day find its way.

They'll only be able to determine for themselves when we stop determining for them.

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4 hours ago, jacee said:

Because ... Harper.

Because Harper, like the great majority of Canadians, did not see him as a Canadian, and did not care about what happened to him or his miserable excuse for a family.

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6 minutes ago, Argus said:

Because Harper, like the great majority of Canadians, did not see him as a Canadian, and did not care about what happened to him or his miserable excuse for a family.

And once again you presume to speak for "the great majority". 

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41 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

If he was dead,  no need to pay out 10 mill ..  it should not have been that hard to come to that conclusion.

No, He's getting $$$ because the Canadian flunkies traipsed down to Gitmo to interrogate the kid knowing full well he was on the receiving end of abusive treatment. That's why Khadr is getting a payout. 

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2 hours ago, Argus said:

Because Harper, like the great majority of Canadians, did not see him as a Canadian, and did not care about what happened to him or his miserable excuse for a family.

Not the majority.

Harper is a sociopathic creep who left a 15 year old Canadian (born) kid to be tortured. 

Omar Khadr cannot be held responsible for the actions of his father. But you're right: Harper did make that error in justice, punishing the son for the sins of the father.

Because ... Harper ... creep.

 

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8 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Whats the difference of us going in to engage in terrorism  to take out The Taliban, Saddam Hussein, Muamar Qaddafi, and now Assad because we don't like those certain governments?? Come on. Use your brains for once.

And Karzai was key in the 'New Afghanistan' propped up by the west.

The other thing is that much worse people that did time in GITMO are back in the terror scene causing hell for our soldiers.  That seems counter productive does it not?  And I am still not sure his confession was genuine since he admitted to everything under torture. And we know torture is not effective to get to the truth.

You are right that Karzai is a piece of garbage. No argument there. He's a piece of corrupted crap who protects his brother a drug lord and pedophile. Doesn't change a damn thing about Kadr.

You know I appreciate the legal hybrid system the US created was defective legally. I get that. You can make great legal arguments that the laws he was arrested under were unconstitutional according to US law. I get that. I am not debating you on that. You know I can't because as a lawyer I have to go with the US constitution and the US Supreme Court rulings and for that matter I hold my nose at our own Supreme Court. Laws are laws. We have to change them when we do not like them not break them.

My argument is with compensating him. I said from the get go the US should have never created their hybrid system and just dealt with him under their US military law and treated him as a POW. They couldn't because he would eventually have to be released. The Americans could have left him to die or sent him to his death in Afghanistan. They felt they had to make an example of him and with no international laws for dealig with terrorists they tried to create a hybrid civil-military system that violated their own constitution.

None of that justifies compensating him and the US could have been bold and held him indefinitely in a military prison claiming hostilities with Al Quaeda have not ended. That I would like them to do. I think he belongs in a US Marines military prison myself.

It was US Marines, that's saved Omar Kadr. They could have left him to die and they chose to save him which is testament to their professional behaviour. He should be in their jail until Al Quaeda disbands.

He killed an unarmed medic. He knew exactly what he did. He to this day has never apologized for what he did. In fact in interviews he makes clear he is unrepentant, hat he thinks what he did was justifiable.

His entire family but one brother are Al Queda terrorists.

He does not deserve 10 million. Even if you could argue he was tortured the torture should not entitle him to make a profit from what he did only if that was true get those torturers held accountable.

From the sounds of the torture it sounds far less in scale then what Al Quaeda does to its prisoners. I don't think he was wash-boarded. I believe he was interrogated in bright lights yes. If he was water-boarded that is unacceptable but I don't think he should be compensated for it.

The basic principle of allowing him to financially profit from being a terrorist is wrong. Its dead wrong. Punish the water boarders if they did in fact do that.

I wish the dead marine's wife luck in suing Kadr to get that 10 million.

May I also say you argued back to me with great restraint. I appreciated that but the shot at Canadian soldiers not following the Geneva convention was a cheap shot.  That is b.s.  Your restraint other then that cheap shot was appreciated.

Edited by Rue
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7 hours ago, GostHacked said:

It would have been better for those soldiers to have just shot Khadr dead.  Then we would not be talking about this.

 

That's probably what will happen next time they catch a Canadian terrorist.

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5 hours ago, jacee said:

?

They did shoot him repeatedly, but not lethally.

I'm not sure what your point is here.

 

I assume he meant, "take no prisoners."    It saves a lot of headache and diplomatic tensions.

 

Edited by betsy
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4 minutes ago, betsy said:

And? 

What happened to the terrorist they got jailed in Guantanamo?  What's he doing walking freely here on our street, and getting rewarded by the millions?

The "terrorist" was illegally tortured and then jailed in Gitmo for ten years. Our legal system was able to correct that, although it them awhile.

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7 minutes ago, Rue said:

You are right that Karzai is a piece of garbage. No argument there. He's a piece of corrupted crap who protects his brother a drug lord and pedophile.

You know I appreciate the legal hybrid system the US created was defective legally. I get that. You can make great legal arguments that the laws he was arrested under were unconstitutional according to US law.

My argument is with compensating him. I said from the get go the US should have never created their hybrid system and just dealt with him under their US military law.

That's what the US Armed Forces originally asked for but were over-ruled by bush.

It was US Marines, that's saved Omar Kadr. They could have left him to die and they chose to save him which is testament to their professional behaviour.

He killed an unarmed medic. He knew exactly what he did. He to this day has never apologized for what he did. In fact in interviews he makes clear he is unrepentant, hat he thinks what he did was justifiable.

His entire family but one brother are Al Queda terrorists.

He does not deserve 10 million. Even if you could argue he was tortured the torture should not entitle him to make a profit from what he did only if that was true get those torturers held accountable.

The basic principle of allowing him to financially profit from being a terrorist is wrong. Its dead wrong.

I wish the dead marine's wife luck in suing Kadr to get that 10 million.

 

Sgt Speer was armed and not working as a medic that day.

I don't believe they can leave him to die - wars have some rules - especially after he hollered that he's Canadian. They did try to kill him, though, shot him repeatedly. They executed the other survivor too.

I think that's not legal either, but that guy was a true terrorist, friend of Omar's father, making sure Omar didn't run away, and likely the one who actually did throw the grenade.

 

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