Women Who Cover Their Faces Shouldn't Be accepted To Enter Canada!

[Rue]

3 minutes ago, Peter F said:

So? If a woman wants to cover herself up then whose business is that but hers? Or go topless for that matter. Is this some Canadian Values thing going on? A demand that women expose a certain amount of themselves at all times? 

That's very liberal of you to tolerate sexual fascist practices by arguing its the same as a woman being topless,  What crap. When was the last time a topless woman took the oath of citizenship? Man this liberal tolerance shtick just does not end trying to repackage sexual fascism.

 

[hot enough]

13 minutes ago, Rue said:

That's very liberal of you to tolerate sexual fascist practices by arguing its the same as a woman being topless,  What crap. When was the last time a topless woman took the oath of citizenship? Man this liberal tolerance shtick just does not end trying to repackage sexual fascism.

 

Such dishonesty, Rue. Can you say freedom to choose?

[Peter F]

4 hours ago, Rue said:

That's very liberal of you to tolerate sexual fascist practices by arguing its the same as a woman being topless,  What crap. When was the last time a topless woman took the oath of citizenship? Man this liberal tolerance shtick just does not end trying to repackage sexual fascism.

 

Sexual facism my ass. If folks want to dress modestly they can - or not - as they please. 

[Rue]

12 hours ago, Peter F said:

Sexual facism my ass. If folks want to dress modestly they can - or not - as they please. 

Good now you want to describe covering oneself head to toe, dressing moderately. How moderate of you.

Man does your  liberalism ever stop? Is that what it does, make you engage in some fantasy that  SEXUAL FASCISM is moderate

and enlightened hip in the know people like you embrace it?

You aint hip doing that.. You aint tolerant, you apologize and condone  sexual fascism and the symbols it uses to remind women who controls them..

You want to call it moderate knock yourself out. Its not moderate. Its extreme. Its a symbol of control by men over a woman's body.

People who cover themselves head to toe because they have been taught their bodies are sexually provocative are not expressing moderate view s they are reflecting the views of  Muslim fundamentalist men in their society demanding they wear such things..

Tell me would you consider swearing an oath, topless, moderate?

Would you consider someone wearing a Nazi uniform moderate?

Your take on what is moderate could be construed that way by me using your liberal criteria.

Its not the society I want my daughters and grand-daughters living in and quite frankly I find your blindness to what it is more scary then any

Muslim brought up in a society where they never learned to question and be critical of authority-in your case you were given the qift to be free and 

challenge archaic concepts and you choose to roll over and turtle in the face of fascism and condone it and re-name it moderate?

You think appeasement of fascism works? Chamberlain tried that. It failed. 

I am not in the mood to mince words. If someone wants to bag women I will side with women who tell them to shove the bag up their keester.

That's what I taught my daughters, that is what I will teach my grand-daughters and when I run across people justifying andmolly coddling and trying to suger coat archaic ignorant backward sexual  practices I will fight it. 

I will. I don't think a woman's body needs to be covered up head to toe-.  I don't find that moderate. I find it fascist.and no I don't agree with having more than 1 wife or segregating women in houses of worship either. I don't find that moderate either..

 I consider the definition of women and how they are demanded to behave in Muslim societies crap-sexual fascism.

I support MODERATE Muslim women- those MODERATES are fighting hard to get rid of such practices.

Please don't misappropriate their cause and suggeste extremist Muslim beliefs that are used to oppress moderate Muslim women are moderate.You've misappropriated the word.

 

Edited June 14, 2017 by Rue

[Rue]

17 hours ago, hot enough said:

Such dishonesty, Rue. Can you say freedom to choose?

Tell me have you a clue how the world operates outside your bubble? G et out of your Mama's basement. Freedom of choice? Freedom of choice?

You think a woman brought up in a Muslim society where she's told to cover up made that decision based on free choice?

Oh I don't doubt  Muslim women born in Canada with freedom of choice have chosen it as a lifestyle. Met some. I also think they chose it because like you they have have not seen it in practice outside their own life bubble-it comes from a society where women have no free choice and its a symbol of how  men strip women of free choice and impose control over them by covering them up.

Hey man wearing slave chains is cool man, Wear them.Show everyone how hip it is to have slave chains.

Lol. Trendy.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Rue

[Goddess]

12 hours ago, WestCoastRunner said:

The sole basis of any religion is to convert. Surely you know this being an ex JW

As far as ripping off the welfare system, you have e heard of Bounty BC haven't you?  .

Plenty of white women in Canada are held under the thumb of their abusive male partners. Isolated and segregated from friends and family. No different than women covering themselves up because of orders from their beloved hubby. 

Since you brought up, yes I used to be a JW. And yes, I left the religion. So I understand what is involved with going against one's religion and culture. You and Dialamah think it's soooooo easy! You think once these women get to Canada, they'll buck the system and just quit wearing their burkas and niqabs. No, darling. It's not that easy. 

I know what it's like to buck the system and have to leave in the night with only a few dollars in an envelope and what you can carry in your car. To leave without your child in order to make a better life for them. To leave without a friend or family member for support. I know how hard it is to  try and make new friends after being told that worldly people don't love others or look after others and you distrust the whole world. I know what it's like to have no family, as in - none. It's not as easy peasy lemon squeezy as you portray. More like difficult difficult lemon difficult. And let me tell you, some of my hardest most stressful  times came when well-meaning people like you, who had absolutely no friggin clue about all the psychological mind manipulations that went on in the religion,  made comments about how "normal" the JWs are and how wonderful the religion is "So devout and morally superior in this day and age!"

I don't think making out like women having to cover themselves in reams of cloth to hide their dirty filthy whore bodies is a normal, acceptable cultural trait, helps women at all.

Are there Muslim women who burka-up freely out of choice? Of course there are. But to assume they all have "chosen" this, is dead wrong and is Islamic propaganda just the same as the JW propaganda that kept me enslaved.

You do a great disservice to the millions of women around the world who are beaten and killed over the burka issue when you pretend this is a normal and acceptable thing to do to women. How disappointed the woman must be who longs for the freedom of Canada to shed the bulky fabrics and feel the sun on her face and the wind in her hair, the woman who has the courage and strength to buck a religion, a culture, lose all their family and friends....only to be met by people like you, telling her it's normal and acceptable for her to be covered at all times. 

This is religious and domestic abuse right in your face. And you support it by poo-pooing it as nothing.

[Goddess]

Don't ever tell me this is normal and acceptable.

[dialamah]

11 hours ago, Rue said:

Your first sentence is blatantly false.

Yah another liberal apologizing for Muslim fascism by arguing since there are non Muslim fascists and their victims are white, it makes it ok for Muslims to abuse presumably non white women?

 

I suppose if these people were devoting hours and threads to non-Muslim women  being abused by their non-Muslim husbands, or non-Muslim women forced to wear long skirts and long sleeves by non-Muslim husbands/fathers their concern for Muslim women would be a bit more believable.  

These posters claim concern about Canadian culture, but how many threads have they started about rape and pedophilia by non-Muslim men being a problem?   Or fraud and crime by non-Muslim and those of white European descent?

The point isn't that bad actions committed by Muslims are excused because the same thing happens among non-Muslims, but that focusing on Muslims as if the bad actions they commit aren't committed by non-Muslims or aren't as common or as serious.   As if fraud, abuse and criminal behavior were almost unheard of before Muslims, and now these people threaten to overthrow Canada because some of them also do what some Canadians have always done.  

This is why I think it would be useful if ethnic or religious information was part of crime stats.  Instead of speculation and guesses, such information might calm hysteria or fan it - but still, hard data is preferable to assumptions based one's personal bias, imo.

 

 

[dialamah]

37 minutes ago, Goddess said:

You and Dialamah think it's soooooo easy! You think once these women get to Canada, they'll buck the system and just quit wearing their burkas and niqabs. No, darling. It's not that easy. 

I know what it's like to buck the system and have to leave in the night with only a few dollars in an envelope and what you can carry in your car. To leave without your child in order to make a better life for them. To leave without a friend or family member for support

I left the same religion you did.  I've also left an abusive relationship where I was quite literally expected to the the slave of the man.   Yet somehow I didn't come out of that believing I knew best for other people and could impose on them my beliefs about how they should behave.  I understand that until a woman chooses for herself to make that change you'll only make her more determined to remain in her comfort zone if you try to force her to change.   

[Goddess]

9 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I left the same religion you did.  I've also left an abusive relationship where I was quite literally expected to the the slave of the man.   Yet somehow I didn't come out of that believing I knew best for other people and could impose on them my beliefs about how they should behave.  I understand that until a woman chooses for herself to make that change you'll only make her more determined to remain in her comfort zone if you try to force her to change.   

Yet here you are - doing just that.

Yes. No one goes through all the things associated with leaving a cherished belief system until they're ready and able to withstand everything that goes with it.

Do you think telling women that it is normal and acceptable in Canada to be covered all the time helps them leave behind religious and domestic abuse or hinders?  Do you think Trudeau going to a radical mosque and making women MPs use the side entrance, cover up and sit away from the men helps or hinders? I'm awfully surprised that you feel "going along with" and accepting archaic religious beliefs as normal is a great thing for Canada.   I'm not "for" banning the burka but I am for not making out like it's a great thing or even normal and acceptable for the human race.

You can continue to support it if you like. I do not.

 

[DogOnPorch]

23 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I suppose if these people were devoting hours and threads to non-Muslim women  being abused by their non-Muslim husbands, or non-Muslim women forced to wear long skirts and long sleeves by non-Muslim husbands/fathers their concern for Muslim women would be a bit more believable.  

These posters claim concern about Canadian culture, but how many threads have they started about rape and pedophilia by non-Muslim men being a problem?   Or fraud and crime by non-Muslim and those of white European descent?

The point isn't that bad actions committed by Muslims are excused because the same thing happens among non-Muslims, but that focusing on Muslims as if the bad actions they commit aren't committed by non-Muslims or aren't as common or as serious.   As if fraud, abuse and criminal behavior were almost unheard of before Muslims, and now these people threaten to overthrow Canada because some of them also do what some Canadians have always done.  

This is why I think it would be useful if ethnic or religious information was part of crime stats.  Instead of speculation and guesses, such information might calm hysteria or fan it - but still, hard data is preferable to assumptions based one's personal bias, imo.

 

 

 

Once again, Islam is a religion like Christianity. It IS NOT a race or a skin colour. Even WHITE PEOPLE can join Islam.

[Peter F]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Don't ever tell me this is normal and acceptable.

It's normal where they are. In fact the state where they are punishes them for not conforming. It is oppression and Facistic where they are.. But it isn't here. Because they are not caned here for dressing differently. 

 Argus and Rue argue that what this photo shows is women who actually want to dress like that. Most of them don't and wouldn't if it wasn't for the damn caning they'd face. 'Don't let those barbarians come here and do that' Argus argues.   I am saying by all means come here; See that there is no punishment for not dressing like that.  Over time, most will end such silliness. They will see thier religion doe's not demand them to. Not here. There yes but not here. I say, Canadian Values require us to tell all those women there that they can come here and be free. That freedom to choose also means that if any wish to wear such things, well , they get to do so.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Peter F

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Peter F said:

It's normal where they are. In fact the state where they are punishes them for not conforming. It is oppression and Facistic where they are.. But it isn't here. Because they are not caned here for dressing differently. 

 Argus and Rue argue that what this photo shows is women who actually want to dress like that. Most of them don't and wouldn't if it wasn't for the damn caning they'd face. 'Don't let those barbarians come here and do that' Argus argues.   I am saying by all means come here; See that there is no punishment for not dressing like that.  Over time, most will end such silliness. They will see thier religion doe's not demand them to. Not here. There yes but not here. I say, Canadian Values require us to tell all those women there that they can come here and be free.

 

Men call the shots under Islam. Not women.

 

[Peter F]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Men call the shots under Islam. Not women.

 

Which does nothing to explain why so many muslim women in this country don't dress like that.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Peter F said:

Which does nothing to explain why so many muslim women in this country don't dress like that.

 

Because Canada has only a small number of Muslims at the moment. 

As more Islam is imported, the rules will change. You're free to believe that your Western beliefs & values trump Islam, mind you.

They won't if Europe is an indicator, however.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Don't ever tell me this is normal and acceptable.

I don't like this either.   I didn't like it when I saw a few women like this in Egypt and I don't like seeing it in Canada.

But as far as I'm concerned there is nothing in this world that gives me the moral right to decide I must save these women against their will or offer blanket insults to them, their husbands and fathers or their religion.  I can offer them something different through example and education but they have to make a choice to accept it.  Banning them from my country because they make me uncomfortable will not help them or their daughter.  Forcing them  to wear what I find acceptable will not help them.

Prosecuting them for domestic abuse sends a message that wife beating, honor killings and FGM are unacceptable in this country helps them understand our standards and sends a message to potential victims that they aren't abandonned.  Refusing to let them entry because they're dressed a certain way and assuming their thoughts doesn't help those women or their daughters.

If our culture isn't strong enough to offer opportunity for freedom from oppression to these women without losing our way, that's pretty pathetic.

 

Edited June 14, 2017 by dialamah

[Peter F]

The rules won't change Dog, You think those women over there who come here will want to revert back to that once they see that it is not necessary?  Unlike you, I am not living in fear of muslims because I know very well that our culture is far more powerful than even you give it credit for. That power is influence. We don't need no caneings to make folks stop wearing those things  

As dialamah correctly says: "If our culture isn't strong enough to offer opportunity for freedom from oppression to these women without losing our way, that's pretty pathetic"

Edited June 14, 2017 by Peter F

[DogOnPorch]

7 minutes ago, dialamah said:

 

If our culture isn't strong enough to offer opportunity for freedom from oppression to these women without losing our way, that's pretty pathetic.

 

 

Is Sweden a good example or bad example of Muslim integration into a Western society?

 

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Peter F said:

The rules won't change Dog, You think those women over there who come here will want to revert back to that once they see that it is not necessary?  Unlike you, I am not living in fear of muslims because I know very well that our culture is far more powerful than even you give it credit for. That power is influence. We don't need no caneings to make folks stop wearing those things  

 

As mentioned, you're free to believe that your values trump Islam.

Worked well in Europe. 

[dialamah]

14 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Because Canada has only a small number of Muslims at the moment. 

As more Islam is imported, the rules will change. You're free to believe that your Western beliefs & values trump Islam, mind you.

They won't if Europe is an indicator, however.

Show me a non-Muslim, Western country where that has actually happened.  And I don't mean Sharia councils specific to Muslims but countries where laws have actually incorporated some belief of Islam into laws that affect every single citizen regardless of religion or belief.

[Peter F]

In reply to DoP above:

 

and, of course, you are free to see others remain oppressed in order to save yourself.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Peter F

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, dialamah said:

Show me a non-Muslim, Western country where that has actually happened.  And I don't mean Sharia councils specific to Muslims but countries where laws have actually incorporated some belief of Islam into laws that affect every single citizen regardless of religion or belief.

 

A Western Nation changed forever by Islam? How about ALL of them?

Meanwhile, how are "multiculturalism" efforts proceeding outside of Western countries?

 

 

[dialamah]

6 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

As mentioned, you're free to believe that your values trump Islam.

Worked well in Europe. 

Yup.  Europe is still not Muslim.  Imagine that!

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, dialamah said:

Yup.  Europe is still not Muslim.  Imagine that!

 

Europe is your Islamic success story, eh?

[Goddess]

11 minutes ago, Peter F said:

It's normal where they are. In fact the state where they are punishes them for not conforming. It is oppression and Facistic where they are.. But it isn't here. Because they are not caned here for dressing differently. 

 Argus and Rue argue that what this photo shows is women who actually want to dress like that. Most of them don't and wouldn't if it wasn't for the damn caning they'd face. 'Don't let those barbarians come here and do that' Argus argues.   I am saying by all means come here; See that there is no punishment for not dressing like that.  Over time, most will end such silliness. They will see thier religion doe's not demand them to. Not here. There yes but not here. I say, Canadian Values require us to tell all those women there that they can come here and be free. That freedom to choose also means that if any wish to wear such things, well , they get to do so.

It doesn't matter that it's "normal" where they are.  This is not how "normal" women choose to live.  The only women who "want" to dress like this are abused women - religiously abused, domestically abused.  No one in their right mind would "choose" this freely. 

 

Quote

They will see thier religion doe's not demand them to. Not here

Really?  Muslim women in Canada are not demanded to wear it?  Yet we legitimize it by enshrining it in our laws.  As I said, I'm not for banning the burka/niqab.  But I am definitely for not legitimizing it.

You over-simplify the situation when you say that women will just see that in Canada they don't have to wear it and throw their burkas in the streets.  No.  You have no idea (or just don't care) about difficult that would be for someone to abandon a cherished religious belief, knowing they will lose everything - family, freinds - when they do.  There is almost a de-programming that needs to take place.  For women who are forced to wear this - and you all can deny it all you want but there are many women in Canada who are forced to wear it - it's not so easy to just shrug off the garment.  Which is why legitimizing it in no way helps.

Again, I'm not saying it should to be banned, but we really need to stop legitimizing wonky religious beliefs in Canada.

 

11 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I don't like this either.   I didn't like it when I saw a few women like this in Egypt and I don't like seeing it in Canada.

But as far as I'm concerned there is nothing in this world that gives.me the moral right to decide I must save these women or offer blanker insults to them, their husbands and fathers or their religion.  I can offer them something different through example and education but they have to make a choice to accept it.  Banning them from my country because they make me uncomfortable will not help them or their daughter.  Forcing them  to wear what I find acceptable will not help them.

Prosecuting them for domestic abuse sends a message that wife beating, honor killings and FGM are unacceptable in this country helps them understand our standards and sends a message to potential victims that they aren't abandonned.  Refusing to let them entry because they're dressed a certain way and assuming their thoughts doesn't help those women or their daughters.

If our culture isn't strong enough to offer opportunity for freedom from oppression to these women without losing our way, that's pretty pathetic.

 

Where did I say I was trying to "save" these women?  I agreed with you that you cannot save someone who is not ready or able to be saved.  I also offer them something different by example and education.  The difference between us is that while you SAY you are against burkas, you at the same time want them legitimized and accepted as normal in our society.  Which is why you argue so vehemently for all things Islam.

When we change our laws to allow niqabs at the citizenship oath, while not allowing others to wear headgear, when our PM goes to a mosque with radical ties and makes women MPs cover up, use the side entrance and sit segregated from the men, when we adopt this headgear that denigrates women into our RCMP, it legitimizes this. It's called creeping Sharia and Europe is suffering for it.  Why do you think it will be different here?  What makes Canada so special?