Why Trust the Bible?

[betsy]

5 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

OK, I'm trying to understand your argument, Betsy.  You are trying to support that the Bible is entirely factual because what is in it correlates with certain scientific discoveries? Or am I smoking too much incense and hitting the holy water a bit hard? Can you be a little more clear? Seriously you're all over the road here.  I realize I have the tendency to wander off, but I'm having trouble getting your underlying point here.

 

How do you know  what's to be taken as a figure of speech,  or not? 

The Bible is full of figures of speech.  It could be that they're figures of speech (until proven otherwise).......or science hadn't gotten around to discovering them?

 

As we can see, it's science that seems to be lagging behind the Bible about knowledge of the
physical world.


Have you noticed that?

While science cannot crack into the supernatural, and can only study and analyze the physical......

........the Bible is stepping on science's realm of the physical!

 

Just occurred to me that the NAS is proven wrong when it says they're separate realms. No such separation exists between the physical and the supernatural, as far as the Bible is concerned......as demonstrated by these given verses!

 

 

Anyway......thousands of years later.......

Thanks to science, at least we now know that those verses that are given as evidence, are not figures of speech.
They're actual descriptions of the physical world - in some verses, they're used by God to illustrate or emphasize some teachings to His people.......but in so doing, they give an actual description of the physical world, like the Hydrological Cycle.

Because of science, we can now take those verses literally!

Edited June 22, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

5 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

OK, I'm trying to understand your argument, Betsy.  You are trying to support that the Bible is entirely factual because what is in it correlates with certain scientific discoveries? Or am I smoking too much incense and hitting the holy water a bit hard? Can you be a little more clear? Seriously you're all over the road here.  I realize I have the tendency to wander off, but I'm having trouble getting your underlying point here.

 

You're confused......as shown by your own post:

Quote

Now you're getting my point.  I said precisely that! However, you say that, then right below you continue with the hydrological cycle, etc. 

The ancient authors had no idea about that!!!!!

 

My point, exactly!

 

How could've the authors of the Bible written about such things......

...........if not through the Creator Himself?

Only the Creator would've known about those details!

 

 

I'm trying to help you with your confusion.   Answer these questions, James.....it's the first step to enlightenment.            All these science findings, are in the Bible.

 

You don't agree with science that the universe had a beginning?

You don't agree with science that there are creatures that are asexual?

You don't agree with science that the universe is stretching?

You don't agree with science's claim that in the early times, there were only one ocean and one super continent?

You don't agree with Darwinist scientists that life started in the water?

You don't agree with science that the human body is comprised of elements found in the dirt (earth's crust)?

You don't agree with science on the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

 

You don't agree with science about the hydrological system?

Edited June 22, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

The Creator has intimate knowledge of His creation, another evidence is given to indicate the divine inspiration of the Bible, by revealing detailed knowledge of the physical world that was not understood by ‘science’ until many centuries, if not millennia, later.

 

Hebrews 11

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

 

Atoms

 

Practically everything in the physical world - from plant life, stars, animals, rocks, air, and water—is composed of building blocks known as atoms. You can't see atoms with the naked eye.

In fact....

 

Quote

 

We are told to take on trust the idea that atoms are there, interacting with each other and being building blocks for our world.

It might seem as if there’s a simple way to prove atoms exist: put them under the microscope. But this approach won’t work. In fact, even the most powerful light-focusing microscopes can’t visualise single atoms. What makes an object visible is the way it deflects visible light waves.

Atoms are so much smaller than the wavelength of visible light that the two don’t really interact. To put it another way, atoms are invisible to light itself. However, atoms do have observable effects on some of the things we can see.

 

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20151120-how-do-we-know-that-things-are-really-made-of-atoms

 

[JamesHackerMP]

If I understand you correctly, Betsy, you are stating that because the ancient authors were divinely-inspired, God was somehow teaching them science, which they put in the Bible? I hope that is not what you are saying, because that's absolutely fallacious.

Here is a rather hilarious episode from Genesis that shows the ancient authors didn't have a clue when it came to science, and they left their unscientific mark on the Bible. 

After Rachael gave birth to Joseph, Jacob said to Laban: "Allow me to go to my own region and land.  Give me my wives and my children from whom I served you and let me go, for you know the service that I rendered you."  Laban answered him: "If you will please! I have learned through divination that the LORD has blessed me because of you."  He continued, "State the wages I owe you, and I will pay them."  Jacob replied: "You know what work I did for you and how well your livestock fared under my care; the little you had before I came has grown into an abundance, since the LORD has blessed you in my company.  Now, when can I do something for my own household as well?"  Laban asked, "What should I give you?" Jacob answered: "You do not have to give me anything.  If you do this thing for me, I will again pasture and tend your sheep.  Let me go through your whole flock today and remove from it every dark animal among the lambs and every spotted or speckled one among the goats.  These will be my wages.  In the future, whenever you check on my wages, my honesty will testify for me: any animal that is now speckled or spotted among the goats, or dark among the lambs, got into my possession by theft!" Laban said, "Very well.  Let it be as you say."  That same day Laban removed the streaked and spotted he-goats and all the speckled and spotted she-goats, all those with some white on them, as well as every dark lamb, and he put them in the care of his sons.  Then he put a three days' journey between himself and Jacob, while Jacob was pasturing the rest of Laban's flock.  Jacob, however, got some fresh shoots of poplar, almond and plane trees, and he peeled white stripes in them by laying bare the white core of the shoots.  The shoots that he had peeled he then set upright in the watering troughs where the animals came to drink, so that they would be in front of them.  When the animals were in heat as they came to drink, the goats mated by the shoots, and so they gave birth to streaked, speckled and spotted young.  The sheep, on the other hand, Jacob kept apart, and he made these animals face the streaked or completely dark animals of Laban.  Thus he produced flocks of his own, which he did not put with Laban's flock.  Whenever the hardier animals were in heat, Jacob would set the shoots in the troughs in full view of these animals so that they mated by the shoots; but with the weaker animals he would not put the shoots there.  So the feeble animals would go to Laban, but the hardy ones to Jacob.  So the man grew exceedingly prosperous, and he owned large flocks, male and female servants, camels and donkeys.

(Gen. 30: 25-43)

There was apparently an incredibly scientific [sarcasm inserted] belief that if the goats saw certain visual impressions whilst mating, they would be born with that color.  (He was rigging it so that he could get the better of Laban as far as his promised "wages" he mentioned.)  Jacob was told by God in a dream to do this (check Gen. 31:10-12)  (BTW, the copy of the Bible I have has pretty extensive footnotes.)  God did not stop to instruct Jacob on the finer points of genetics....or the hydrologic cycle...or the second law of Thermodynamics.

Why would the divinely-inspired author of the Letter to the Hebrews try to teach science to others at the time who were equally clueless about it? God isn't trying to reveal scientific facts to humans at this stage, he is trying to teach them Christian values.  You don't need to light a Bunsen burner and tinker with a chemistry set to do that.

I get what you're doing: you're trying to assert that the Bible is scientifically correct in what it says, so that if a scientist argues something to the contrary, you can point to the Bible and call him not only immoral or atheistic, but unscientific.  I'm sorry, Betsy but you're smart enough to do better than that.

And since the Bible is full of little gems like the one above, my advice would be to seek a "larger truth"--the forest instead of the trees--instead of taking every parable or every episode of biblical "history" as literal truth.  It's fine if we can agree to disagree on that but quit repeating the same thing over and over again as if I can't read well enough to notice the first time you said it.  Because now you're just going in circles.

Edited June 22, 2017 by JamesHackerMP

[dialamah]

It's a shame for Taxme this isn't scientific, else he could just start giving young couples white objects for the bedroom and voila! Caucasian babies everywhere!  

[taxme]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

It's a shame for Taxme this isn't scientific, else he could just start giving young couples white objects for the bedroom and voila! Caucasian babies everywhere!  

Caucasian babies everywhere? A great idea. Works for me.   

[TTM]

21 hours ago, eyeball said:

Don't let Betsy's bullshit throw you off, she very clearly indicated that God is the real victim here.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/26852-why-trust-the-bible/?do=findComment&comment=1252223

 

I was fishing for a clear admission.  Oh well, it appears she is ignoring my last posts.

[eyeball]

Quote

Don't let her bullshit throw you off, she very clearly indicated that God is the real victim here.

Now that said, and I'm surprised Betsy hasn't caught it yet, we did nail the poor bugger to a cross.  Of course kicking over the money-changers tables does seem a lot like messing with the economy so He probably had it coming.

[Omni]

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Now that said, and I'm surprised Betsy hasn't caught it yet, we did nail the poor bugger to a cross.  Of course kicking over the money-changers tables does seem a lot like messing with the economy so He probably had it coming.

Maybe they shoulda nailed up the money changers. Trump on a cross.. Hot cross Trump. 

[blackbird]

21 hours ago, taxme said:

God choosing one group of people over another does not sound fair or right to me. That would be like me buying two dogs, and treating one better than the other. The whole bible and what is written in it is quite confusing to me. I have enough trouble at times in trying to read and understand plain old English. 

The children of Israel clearly in Deuteronomy were God's chosen people. "For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth."  Deuteronomy Ch7 vs6 KJV (1611).   Abraham was the father of the Jews and the Arabs.  King David was a descendant of Abraham.  Jesus was a descendant of King David through Mary his mother and is therefore a rightful king of Israel.  Jesus was a Jew and a descendant of Abraham.  The holy scriptures were written by Jews.  Learning parts of the bible takes time and patient study.  It is not always like picking up a newspaper and just reading something.

Edited June 23, 2017 by blackbird

[betsy]

16 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

If I understand you correctly, Betsy, you are stating that because the ancient authors were divinely-inspired, God was somehow teaching them science, which they put in the Bible? I hope that is not what you are saying, because that's absolutely fallacious.

Here is a rather hilarious episode from Genesis that shows the ancient authors didn't have a clue when it came to science, and they left their unscientific mark on the Bible. 

After Rachael gave birth to Joseph, Jacob said to Laban: "Allow me to go to my own region and land.  Give me my wives and my children from whom I served you and let me go, for you know the service that I rendered you."  Laban answered him: "If you will please! I have learned through divination that the LORD has blessed me because of you."  He continued, "State the wages I owe you, and I will pay them."  Jacob replied: "You know what work I did for you and how well your livestock fared under my care; the little you had before I came has grown into an abundance, since the LORD has blessed you in my company.  Now, when can I do something for my own household as well?"  Laban asked, "What should I give you?" Jacob answered: "You do not have to give me anything.  If you do this thing for me, I will again pasture and tend your sheep.  Let me go through your whole flock today and remove from it every dark animal among the lambs and every spotted or speckled one among the goats.  These will be my wages.  In the future, whenever you check on my wages, my honesty will testify for me: any animal that is now speckled or spotted among the goats, or dark among the lambs, got into my possession by theft!" Laban said, "Very well.  Let it be as you say."  That same day Laban removed the streaked and spotted he-goats and all the speckled and spotted she-goats, all those with some white on them, as well as every dark lamb, and he put them in the care of his sons.  Then he put a three days' journey between himself and Jacob, while Jacob was pasturing the rest of Laban's flock.  Jacob, however, got some fresh shoots of poplar, almond and plane trees, and he peeled white stripes in them by laying bare the white core of the shoots.  The shoots that he had peeled he then set upright in the watering troughs where the animals came to drink, so that they would be in front of them.  When the animals were in heat as they came to drink, the goats mated by the shoots, and so they gave birth to streaked, speckled and spotted young.  The sheep, on the other hand, Jacob kept apart, and he made these animals face the streaked or completely dark animals of Laban.  Thus he produced flocks of his own, which he did not put with Laban's flock.  Whenever the hardier animals were in heat, Jacob would set the shoots in the troughs in full view of these animals so that they mated by the shoots; but with the weaker animals he would not put the shoots there.  So the feeble animals would go to Laban, but the hardy ones to Jacob.  So the man grew exceedingly prosperous, and he owned large flocks, male and female servants, camels and donkeys.

(Gen. 30: 25-43)

There was apparently an incredibly scientific [sarcasm inserted] belief that if the goats saw certain visual impressions whilst mating, they would be born with that color.  (He was rigging it so that he could get the better of Laban as far as his promised "wages" he mentioned.)  Jacob was told by God in a dream to do this (check Gen. 31:10-12)  (BTW, the copy of the Bible I have has pretty extensive footnotes.)  God did not stop to instruct Jacob on the finer points of genetics....or the hydrologic cycle...or the second law of Thermodynamics.

Why would the divinely-inspired author of the Letter to the Hebrews try to teach science to others at the time who were equally clueless about it? God isn't trying to reveal scientific facts to humans at this stage, he is trying to teach them Christian values.  You don't need to light a Bunsen burner and tinker with a chemistry set to do that.

I get what you're doing: you're trying to assert that the Bible is scientifically correct in what it says, so that if a scientist argues something to the contrary, you can point to the Bible and call him not only immoral or atheistic, but unscientific.  I'm sorry, Betsy but you're smart enough to do better than that.

And since the Bible is full of little gems like the one above, my advice would be to seek a "larger truth"--the forest instead of the trees--instead of taking every parable or every episode of biblical "history" as literal truth.  It's fine if we can agree to disagree on that but quit repeating the same thing over and over again as if I can't read well enough to notice the first time you said it.  Because now you're just going in circles.

  

How am I going in circles when I'm adding - plying - one evidence after another?   You're the one going in circles with your convoluted attempt to deflect.  And aside from being confused.....you're in denial.

You're confused - as shown by your own post (which is actually my point) - indicating you don't know whether you're coming or going - and you talk about larger truth?

 

Larger truth, indeed. 

I doubt you'd see it even if the truth as big as a USS carrier hits you squarely on your forehead!

Edited June 23, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

16 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

  (BTW, the copy of the Bible I have has pretty extensive footnotes.)  God did not stop to instruct Jacob on the finer points of genetics....or the hydrologic cycle...or the second law of Thermodynamics.

Why would the divinely-inspired author of the Letter to the Hebrews try to teach science to others at the time who were equally clueless about it?

 

I have to question if you can understand what you read, James Hacker.  If you have comprehension issues, then we've got a big problem.  We can't discuss if you have problems understanding what you read.

 

Who said God was trying to teach His people science?

 

 

Quote

God isn't trying to reveal scientific facts to humans at this stage, he is trying to teach them Christian values.  You don't need to light a Bunsen burner and tinker with a chemistry set to do that.

Yes. 

But it so happens that He used metaphors to teach them!

 

In fact I've said that the Bible isn't meant as a scientific book.  God uses the physical world as metaphors to illustrate His teachings, (not science teachings!) - however, the metaphors that He used gives us glimpses or facts about the physical world.  Like the Hydrological system as an example. 

I've posted the following:

 

Quote

 

The Bible does not raise these matters in a scientific or explanatory manner. Rather, God speaks to His people using common language and common concepts.

Again, these verses are not designed to ‘explain’ the hydrologic cycle, but to use visible works of nature as metaphors.


In summary, the physical descriptions of the water cycle used throughout the Bible to illustrate authority, blessings, and salvation are accurate.

 

.

Edited June 23, 2017 by betsy

[DogOnPorch]

Betsy, are you really comfortable arguing over things like the Second Law of Thermodynamics? Really??

That's pretty math heavy even for moi. I'm more a nod intently as the REAL math guy patiently puts it into terms even dummies can follow.

[betsy]

20 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

If I understand you correctly, Betsy, you are stating that because the ancient authors were divinely-inspired, God was somehow teaching them science, which they put in the Bible? I hope that is not what you are saying, because that's absolutely fallacious.

Here is a rather hilarious episode from Genesis that shows the ancient authors didn't have a clue when it came to science, and they left their unscientific mark on the Bible. 

After Rachael gave birth to Joseph, Jacob said to Laban: "Allow me to go to my own region and land.  Give me my wives and my children from whom I served you and let me go, for you know the service that I rendered you."  Laban answered him: "If you will please! I have learned through divination that the LORD has blessed me because of you."  He continued, "State the wages I owe you, and I will pay them."  Jacob replied: "You know what work I did for you and how well your livestock fared under my care; the little you had before I came has grown into an abundance, since the LORD has blessed you in my company.  Now, when can I do something for my own household as well?"  Laban asked, "What should I give you?" Jacob answered: "You do not have to give me anything.  If you do this thing for me, I will again pasture and tend your sheep.  Let me go through your whole flock today and remove from it every dark animal among the lambs and every spotted or speckled one among the goats.  These will be my wages.  In the future, whenever you check on my wages, my honesty will testify for me: any animal that is now speckled or spotted among the goats, or dark among the lambs, got into my possession by theft!" Laban said, "Very well.  Let it be as you say."  That same day Laban removed the streaked and spotted he-goats and all the speckled and spotted she-goats, all those with some white on them, as well as every dark lamb, and he put them in the care of his sons.  Then he put a three days' journey between himself and Jacob, while Jacob was pasturing the rest of Laban's flock.  Jacob, however, got some fresh shoots of poplar, almond and plane trees, and he peeled white stripes in them by laying bare the white core of the shoots.  The shoots that he had peeled he then set upright in the watering troughs where the animals came to drink, so that they would be in front of them.  When the animals were in heat as they came to drink, the goats mated by the shoots, and so they gave birth to streaked, speckled and spotted young.  The sheep, on the other hand, Jacob kept apart, and he made these animals face the streaked or completely dark animals of Laban.  Thus he produced flocks of his own, which he did not put with Laban's flock.  Whenever the hardier animals were in heat, Jacob would set the shoots in the troughs in full view of these animals so that they mated by the shoots; but with the weaker animals he would not put the shoots there.  So the feeble animals would go to Laban, but the hardy ones to Jacob.  So the man grew exceedingly prosperous, and he owned large flocks, male and female servants, camels and donkeys.

(Gen. 30: 25-43)

 

There was apparently an incredibly scientific [sarcasm inserted] belief that if the goats saw certain visual impressions whilst mating, they would be born with that color. 

  Let me remind you that I haven't given this verse as an evidence......however, it intrigued me.

Uh-uh.  Keep that sarcasm in check.   I found an explanation for that.  Scientific explanation!

 

 

Quote

 

The story of Jacob producing flocks of striped goats and black sheep

starting from flocks in which these characteristics had been removed is

considered from a Mendelian genetic viewpoint.

 

Previous commentatorshave implied that the placing of branches in front of the animals arose from

the belief that vivid sights during pregnancy would leave a mark on the

offspring.

 

However, the fact that Laban removed all the coloured animals

from the flock he entrusted to Jacob, shows that the herdsmen knew that

the colour of the offspring was influenced in some way by the colour of the

parents.

 

It was not necessary for the herdsmen to understand the exact

rules of inheritance, only sufficient that, wherever possible, female animals

were served by coloured males.

 

It is proposed that the use of the branches referred to in the story was not an attempt to generate visual impressions influencing the females during pregnancy or conception, but instead the branches were used to

build a fence to ensure that only coloured male animals could serve the females.

 

 

 

https://www.scienceandchristianbelief.org/serve_pdf_free.php?filename=SCB+13-1+Pearson.pdf

 

 

 

Quote

 

Mendelian inheritance

Mendelian inheritance^{[help 1]} is a type of biological inheritance that follows the laws originally proposed by Gregor Mendel in 1865 and 1866 and re-discovered in 1900. These laws were initially very controversial.

When Mendel's theories were integrated with the Boveri–Sutton chromosome theory of inheritance by Thomas Hunt Morgan in 1915, they became the core of classical genetics.

Ronald Fisher later combined these ideas with the theory of natural selection in his 1930 book The Genetical Theory of Natural Selection, putting evolution onto a mathematical footing and forming the basis for population genetics and the modern evolutionary synthesis

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendelian_inheritance

 

 

 

So, what we have in the Bible, is the first written record of.......

 

.............selective breeding!  

 

 

Imagine that.

 

Quote

 

Genesis presents the first written record of selective breeding when it describes Jacob inducing specific sheep to mate and then separating the “stronger livestock” from the “feeble.”¹ There is every historical indication that this practice has continued unbroken from before Jacob’s time until today. How many years has this artificial selection been going on?

For the sake of argument, one can pin an archaeological date to Jacob’s grandfather Abraham. Babylonian land and labor contracts dated back to 1950 B.C. and 1965 B.C. record dealings of “Abi-ramu” (Abram) near Ur.² Abraham was 100 years old when his wife Sarah gave birth to Isaac, and Isaac was 60 when his wife Rebekah gave birth to Jacob (Genesis 21:5; 25:26). This puts Jacob working as a shepherd in the early 18th century B.C., roughly 38 centuries ago. Sheep gestation lasts about five months, and sheep reach sexual maturity at roughly six to eight months.³ Thus, a brand-new generation occurs every 11 to 13 months—one sheep generation per year for 38 centuries yields about 3,800 generations.

 

Darwin suggested that one must simply imagine trait changes that occur under domestication also occurring in the wild over eons, gradually transmuting one kind into another. But the basic kind has resisted evolution for perhaps 3,800 generations. So far, sheep keep birthing sheep, and all of their trait variations remain…well, sheepish.

Similarly, researchers spent 29 years selectively breeding 600 fruit fly generations only to find no permanent trait changes—no evolution.⁴

Nineteenth-century naturalist Sir Wyville Thomson wrote that sea life “refuses to give the least support to the theory which refers the evolution of species to extreme variation guided only by natural selection.”

 

http://www.icr.org/article/counting-sheep-since-jacobs-day/

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

22 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

There was apparently an incredibly scientific [sarcasm inserted] belief that if the goats saw certain visual impressions whilst mating, they would be born with that color.

 

Still on Laban's usage of branches, here's a scientific explanation.

 

Check out page 10, starting on first paragraph. I can't paste it.
It has something to do with artificial estrus like Chin-Ball mating device.

Apparently it's well-known among breeders and veterinarians that ewes, while in "estrus," tend to rub their vulvas on sticks. 

https://faculty.washington.edu/snoeg...NES%201997.pdf

Edited June 23, 2017 by betsy

[TTM]

6 hours ago, betsy said:

  Let me remind you that I haven't given this verse as an evidence......however, it intrigued me.

Uh-uh.  Keep that sarcasm in check.   I found an explanation for that.  Scientific explanation!  

When do we get the scientific explanation for talking snakes? 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, TTM said:

When do we get the scientific explanation for talking snakes? 

Schizophrenia or hallucinogens come to mind.

I ate a mushroom once and I WAS God for awhile - a quite pleasant god too I might add, not that crazy bastard you read about.

[betsy]

The Creator has intimate knowledge of His creation, another evidence is given to indicate the divine inspiration of the Bible, by revealing detailed knowledge of the physical world that was not understood by ‘science’ until many centuries, if not millennia, later.




SPRINGS IN THE OCEAN




Job 38
16 “Have you entered the springs of the sea?
Or have you walked in search of the depths?


Genesis 7
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.


Proverbs 8
28 When He established the clouds above,
When He strengthened the fountains of the deep,




The Old Testament asserts that there are springs in the ocean.
 

 

Quote

 

One of the most profound and moving experiences in the life of the Old Testament patriarch Job must have been his encounter with a whirlwind. At a time when Job's undeserved suffering led him to a point of despair, God questioned Job from the whirlwind concerning his knowledge of Creation (see Job, Chapter 38). God confirmed his sovereignty and justice by giving what must rank as the greatest science test of all time.

Among the most thought provoking of God's questions to Job was, "Have you entered into the springs of the sea?"

The word for "springs" is NEBEK (transliterated from Hebrew), an unusual word referring to the places where water issues or bursts out of the earth. Job must have pondered this question with amazement, for although he had seen many springs on the land, he had no experience with undersea springs.

Today we know why. The ocean is very deep; almost all the ocean floor is in total darkness; the pressure there is enormous. It would have been impossible for Job to have explored the "springs of the sea."

 

https://www.icr.org/article/180



 

 

Quote

THE DISCOVERY

Deep diving research submarines have been constructed to withstand the three-tons-per-square-inch pressure at the ocean floor. These submarines have carried scientists into the deep. The first direct observations of deepsea springs, or their mineralized vents, appear to have been made on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge by Project FAMOUS in 1973.

Spectacular hot springs were then discovered on the Galapagos Rift in the Pacific Ocean by the 23-foot long submersible Alvin in 1977.

Alvin also explored, photographed and sampled hot springs on the East Pacific Rise just south of the Gulf of California in 1979. The research continues.

Several nontechnical magazine reports present photographs and descriptions of these recently discovered seafloor springs. The Galapagos Rift springs are described in the November 1979 issue of National Geographic. The article is titled "Incredible World of the Deep-sea Rifts" and bears the caption: "Scientists explore rifts in the seafloor where hot springs spew minerals and startling life exists in a strange world without sun.

The East Pacific Rise springs are shown in Science News, January 12, 1980. This article is titled, "Smokers, Red Worms, and Deep Sea Plumbing" and is followed by the caption; "Sea floor oases of mineral-rich springs and amazing creatures fulfill oceanographers' dreams." The discovery of these deep ocean springs is said to be the "most significant oceanographic find since the discovery of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge."

https://www.icr.org/article/180

[betsy]

Let's do a recap:

The Creator has intimate knowledge of His creation - evidences given to indicate the divine inspiration of the Bible, by revealing detailed knowledge of the physical world that was not understood by ‘science’ until many centuries, if not millennia, later.

 

Refer to post # 57 for some detailed explanations.  All from the Book of Genesis 1 and 2:

*In the beginning (consistent with science's discovery that the universe had a beginning)

*All waters gather to one place, and land appear (consistent with science's claim that in the early times there was only one super ocean and only one super continent - Pangaea and Panthalassa)

*The waters bringing forth creatures that has life (compatible with evolutionist claim that life started in the water).

*"After their kind" in relation to reproduction - without any mention of genders, except to humans - male and female - (consistent with science discovery that some species don't require a mate in order to reproduce.  Some creatures are asexual)

*God formed man from dust (consistent with science finding that the human body is made up of elements that comes from dirt/dust).

*God's curse towards the snake that it would from henceforth crawl on its belly and eat dust (compatible with science's discovery that snakes used to have limbs or legs)

*Man's dominion of animals (consistent with reality - as can be observed, even today)

------------------------

*Stretches the Heavens (consistent with science discovery that the universe is stretching).  Take note that most of the verses uses the present tense "stretches."   How appropriate!  The universe is still stretching.

 

Job 9:8  He alone stretches out the heavens _ and treads on the waves of the sea.

Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 40:22; Isaiah 42:5; Isaiah 44:24; Isaiah 45:12; Isaiah 48:13; Isaiah 51:13; Jeremiah 10:12

Jeremiah 51:15;  Zechariah 12:1

-----------------------------------------------------------

*Psalm 102:25-26, Isaiah 51:6, Hebrews 1:10-11 indicate the universe is wearing out (consistent with the Second Law of Thermodynamics)

 

Hydrological Cycle  post #454

 

Atoms post #478

 

Springs in the Oceans  post #493

 

Edited June 24, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

The Creator has intimate knowledge of His creation, another evidence is given to indicate the divine inspiration of the Bible, by revealing detailed knowledge of the physical world that was not understood by ‘science’ until many centuries, if not millennia, later.

 

PATHS OF THE SEAS

 

Psalm 8

⁸ The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.

 

 

Matthew Maury is known as the Pathfinder of the Seas, for his role in developing wind and charts on 1847, the predecessor of today's NGA's Pilot Chart Atlas.  Psalm 8 was the most known verse that gave him inspiration.

 

Quote

He was nicknamed "Pathfinder of the Seas" and "Father of Modern Oceanography and Naval Meteorology" and later, "Scientist of the Seas," due to the publication of his extensive works in his books, especially The Physical Geography of the Sea (1855), the first extensive and comprehensive book on oceanography to be published. Maury made many important new contributions to charting winds and ocean currents, including ocean lanes for passing ships at sea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Fontaine_Maury

 

Quote

 

A postcard showing the dedication ceremony in Goshen Pass, VA, on June 9, 1923. C. Alphono Smith, Headof the Department of English at the U.S. Naval Academy, said in his remarks, “We dedicate this tablet to onewho, though dead, yet lives and leads. We dedicate it to the founder of a new science, to the pilot of everyship that sails, to the herald of the new era of international cooperation. Matthew Fontaine Maury summed up the past and projected the future. Over land and sea his spirit broods as an abiding benediction.”

 

MATTHEW FONTAINE MAURY

PATHFINDER OF THE SEAS

THE GENIUS WHO FIRST SNATCHED

FROM THE OCEAN AND ATMOSPHERE

THE SECRET OF THEIR LAWS.

BORN JANUARY 14TH, 1806

DIED AT LEXINGTON, VA. FEBRUARY 1ST, 1873

CARRIED THROUGH GOSHEN PASS TO HIS FINAL

RESTING PLACE IN RICHMOND, VIRGINIA.

EVERY MARINER FOR COUNTLESS AGES,

AS HE TAKES HIS CHARTS TO SHAPE

HIS COURSE ACROSS THE SEAS,

WILL THINK OF THEE

HIS INSPIRATION HOLY WRIT

PSALMS 8 & 107, VERSES 3, 23 & 24

ECCLESIASTES CHAP. 1, VERSE 8

A TRIBUTE BY

HIS NATIVE STATE

VIRGINIA

1923

 

 

 

http://msi.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/StaticFiles/Files/MatthewMaury.pdf

 

 

Quote

 

(An excerpt from an article at The American Minute about Admiral Farragutt [link at the bottom] refers to Matthew Maury and his book The Physical Geography of the Sea which is located in our Meteorology Category. I thought you might find it interesting…)

 

Another sailor on that ship was 19-year-old midshipman Matthew Fontaine Maury.

Matthew Fontaine Maury (1806-1873), became known as the “Pathfinder of the Seas” for having charted sea and wind currents while serving in the U.S. Navy.

Considered the founder of modern hydrography and oceanography, he was Professor of Meteorology at Virginia Military Institute.

 

Matthew Fontaine Maury wrote in his book Physical Geography of the Sea, 1855:

“I have always found in my scientific studies, that, when I could get the Bible to say anything on the subject it afforded me a firm platform to stand upon, and a round in the ladder by which I could safely ascend.

 

As our knowledge of nature and her laws has increased, so has our knowledge of many passages of the Bible improved.

 

The Bible called the earth ‘the round world,’ yet for ages it was the most damnable heresy for Christian men to say that the world is round; and, finally, sailors circumnavigated the globe, and proved the Bible to be right, and saved Christian men of science from the stake.

 

And as for the general system of circulation which I have been so long endeavoring to describe, the Bible tells it all in a single sentence:

‘The wind goeth toward the South and returneth again to his circuits.'” (Eccles 1:6)

 

http://www.survivorlibrary.com/?p=3137

http://www.wnd.com/2015/04/damn-the-torpedoes-full-speed-ahead/?cat_orig=education

 

 

THE PHYSICAL GEOGRAPHY OF THE SEA AND ITS METEOROLOGY

by:  Matthew Fontaine Maury

https://books.google.ca/books?id=pFu_G8USY8EC&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=And+as+for+the+general+system+of+circulation+which+I+have+been+so+long+endeavoring+to+describe,+the+Bible+tells+it+all+in+a+single+sentence&source=bl&ots=lI3c0Po_SV&sig=FmUeERtIq_kS9t_gn1vrz5ivwvM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwip4pKxq9fUAhVK2oMKHWwiCtwQ6AEIMTAG#v=onepage&q=And as for the general system of circulation which I have been so long endeavoring to describe%2C the Bible tells it all in a single sentence&f=false

 

Edited June 24, 2017 by betsy

[Omni]

People fear death and the concept of the great beyond, so they grasp the bible, the koran, the torah, or whatever to try and allay those fears. If it works for them then that's fine. Just don't try and shove your form of garbage down others throats. 

[betsy]

9 hours ago, Omni said:

People fear death and the concept of the great beyond, so they grasp the bible, the koran, the torah, or whatever to try and allay those fears. If it works for them then that's fine. Just don't try and shove your form of garbage down others throats. 

 

I don't know why people abhor God so much that rational thought flies out the window the moment someone brings up evidence of His existence.  First of all, what you say is totally irrelevant in this topic.  Second, you should read what's being argued about. 

And third, people who don't like the subject - and who don't want to have anything to do with it -  ought to use their common sense: stay out of the thread.  

They shouldn't  shove their ignorance down others' throats.  They have no business dictating to others what they can say in a forum, let alone spewing senseless, juvenile garbage.

 

Anyway........this reminds me.......I might resurrect an old topic from another forum. 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2017 by betsy

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, betsy said:

I don't know why people abhor God

That's easy, its because of the often abhorrent way people who love him behave.

[dialamah]

Between 800 - 1100 AD, Islam was the center of research and scientific discovery.  We benefit today with Arabic numerals, algebra and algorithms among others.  They also studied the universe, which is why so many stars have ended up with Arabic names.   In 1100, that all stopped.  Why?   Because a follower of Islam decided that all glory should be given to Allah, that mathematics was the work of the devil.   So, scientific investigation stopped and we see where Islam is today.

In the 21st century, there is a significant push to teach 'intelligent design' in the schools of America and to present evolution as a theory against which creationism holds equal validity.   The anti-science movement has become a problem that is killing people, especially children, as "natural remedies" are chosen over medicine and vaccines are considered poison.  The States, formerly a powerhouse of scientific advancement, now has at it's helm people who are scientifically illiterate and dismissive of science in general.  

I don't trust God, whether he is called Lord, Allah or Yaweh, because he holds people back - to their detriment.   Magic instead of knowledge, myths over truth, judgment and oppression over tolerance and freedom - that is the legacy of religion.   No religion is free from this; given power, it's first order of business is to eliminate opposition, especially ideas that contradict their myths.    Those who claim that Christianity is 'different' ignore history and they also ignore the example in the States where the current "Christian" administration is following in the path of Islam, 1000 years ago, attacking science and scientific institutions.

Notwithstanding the fact that many religious people are decent, loving, tolerant and pro-science, I sincerely hope there comes a day when humanity leaves every form of "God" in the dust.

 

 

[GostHacked]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

That's easy, its because of the often abhorrent way people who love him behave.

It's also how God behaved , those atrocities by God are documented in the Bible too.