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Quran have been attacked


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Just now, Goddess said:

Or it could be a non-violent way of expressing great frustration.

It's still a violent action.   A non-violent way of expressing great frustration would be to say "I'm very frustrated".  Breaking things, wrecking things and throwing things are still violent, even if they aren't directed at a person.  Just ask anyone who lives with a person who uses those tactics during an argument.

 

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Just now, dialamah said:

It's still a violent action.   A non-violent way of expressing great frustration would be to say "I'm very frustrated".  Breaking things, wrecking things and throwing things are still violent, even if they aren't directed at a person.  Just ask anyone who lives with a person who uses those tactics during an argument.

 

I understand your point.  I've just been wondering how wanting book-ripper-uppers jailed and kept under surveilance and giving books the same rights as human beings would impact other things.  For instance, the Hebdo cartoon was viewed as an act of violence towards Muslims and so the killings for drawing it have been justified.

Where do you draw the line?  Or are you agreeing with Altai and Hot Enough that ripping up a Quran is the same as murdering?

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1 minute ago, Goddess said:

...Where do you draw the line?  Or are you agreeing with Altai and Hot Enough that ripping up a Quran is the same as murdering?

 

As usual, the rippings, burnings, and other desecrations are just fine for some partisan folk depending on what the item represents.

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4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

As usual, the rippings, burnings, and other desecrations are just fine for some partisan folk depending on what the item represents.

**sigh**

I'm not advocating ripping up Qurans or burning flags.

I'm asking what the implications would be if we start giving books, ideas and beliefs the same human rights we give actual human beings.  Because the topic of this thread is that the Quran has been "attacked" and the OP says that people who attack the Quran should be jailed and kept under surveilance.

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Just now, Goddess said:

**sigh**

I'm not advocating ripping up Qurans or burning flags.

I'm asking what the implications would be if we start giving books, ideas and beliefs the same human rights we give actual human beings.

 

Such objects become the focus of partisan rage in place of the human beings that hold them dear.   Burning humans in effigy is a popular demonstration activity around the world.   

Banning such actions is not compatible with liberal (small L) concepts such as freedom of speech/expression.

I do not rip or burn Qu'rans...I recycle them as they are only books.

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1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Such objects become the focus of partisan rage in place of the human beings that hold them dear.   Burning humans in effigy is a popular demonstration activity around the world.   

Banning such actions is not compatible with liberal (small L) concepts such as freedom of speech/expression.

I do not rip or burn Qu'rans...I recycle them as they are only books.

You're the only one to reply to the question!  I'm giving you 1000 bonus points. :)

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11 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I understand your point.  I've just been wondering how wanting book-ripper-uppers jailed and kept under surveilance and giving books the same rights as human beings would impact other things.  For instance, the Hebdo cartoon was viewed as an act of violence towards Muslims and so the killings for drawing it have been justified.

For Altai, and her culture, it is considered the legal norm to jail those who would do such a thing. There are still laws on the books in North American jurisdictions defining as crimes, similar things. 

You keep harping on the crimes "Muslims" commit. What of the crimes Muslims, Catholics, Lutherans, Jews, ... from western societies have committed? Crimes that are considered the worst on the planet, the supreme crime - the illegal invasion of a sovereign nation?

Quote

Where do you draw the line?  Or are you agreeing with Altai and Hot Enough that ripping up a Quran is the same as murdering?

I'm hot enough. Please stop with the terrible logic. To illustrate for you just how bad your logic is, go and find a statement of mine or Altai's that says "ripping up a Quran is the same as murdering". 

 

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15 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Burning humans in effigy is a popular demonstration activity around the world.   

Burning humans, not in effigy but in reality, "shaking and baking" people with phosphorus bombs, napalming people, carpet bombing people, spreading bomblets for children to play with, ... are all popular USA activities around the world. 

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6 minutes ago, hot enough said:

 

I'm hot enough. Please stop with the terrible logic. To illustrate for you just how bad your logic is, go and find a statement of mine or Altai's that says "ripping up a Quran is the same as murdering". 

 

Both Betsy and I pointed out to you with quotes where Altai said that very thing.

You supported her comments by railing about how horrible Western society is and deserving of every terrorist attack that happens, thereby implying that you agree with him/her/them.

This is the last time I'm going to address your nonsensical comments.

 

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6 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Both Betsy and I pointed out to you with quotes where Altai said that very thing.

You supported her comments by railing about how horrible Western society is and deserving of every terrorist attack that happens, thereby implying that you agree with him/her/them.

Discussing "horrible Western society" isn't a support for Altai's comments. You should be concerned that you can't see your logical disconnect. 

Also, your poor grasp of English or more possibly your blind hatred for Muslims - with nothing to justify it.

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19 minutes ago, Goddess said:

the OP says that people who attack the Quran should be jailed and kept under surveilance.

Such an extreme stance for a person whose profile claims the birth date December 2000. That would have made her 15 when she joined MLW in August 2016. I now visualize a teenager pounding away on a keyboard, being as outrageous as possible in what she posts.

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9 minutes ago, Goddess said:

You supported her comments by railing about how horrible Western society is and deserving of every terrorist attack that happens,

Funny how all you righteous folk scream about how the US was justified in attacking Afghanistan for 911 when they had nothing to do with it. Then Iraq, when they had nothing to do with 911. Then Libya, then Syria, then ... and all you offer is stone cold silence.

And false accusations that I support attacks on anyone.

The illogic is absolutely stunning.

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7 minutes ago, capricorn said:

Such an extreme stance for a person whose profile claims the birth date December 2000. That would have made her 15 when she joined MLW in August 2016. I now visualize a teenager pounding away on a keyboard, being as outrageous as possible in what she posts.

Such a scurrilous attack on a young person who shows way more common sense than the lot of you combined. All the western folk, the land of the great debaters, the grand philosophers, who are too petrified to address anything that doesn't fit their narrow minded conservative, Islamaphobic mindset. 

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Just now, hot enough said:

Such a scurrilous attack on a young person who shows way more common sense than the lot of you combined. All the western folk, the land of the great debaters, the grand philosophers, who are too petrified to address anything that doesn't fit their narrow minded conservative, Islamaphobic mindset. 

You've been invited to start a thread on what you want to discuss many times now, rather than continue to derail every other thread.......if we're "petrified" of anything here, it's having comments deleted by mods for being off-topic.  LOL

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On 3/26/2017 at 6:49 PM, taxme said:

 

Indeed, this is what the elite zionists, who control our media and politicians by the politically correct brainwashing strings, are being allowed to get away with. Causing division to keep the people fighting against one another while they sit back and laugh, and continue with what they have been getting away with for decades. Screwing the Canadian taxpaying public out of money with their liberal multicultural nonsense. It would appear as though Canadians are being set up for one big confrontation between Christians and Islam down the Canadian road one day. At least this is what my gut feeling is trying to tell me. Am I wrong on this? Hey, let me know. 

Yes you are wrong.  Actually, I became filled with lowgrade loathing for you when I saw this bit of unrestrained bigotry from you

"this is what the elite zionists, who control our media and politicians by the politically correct brainwashing strings"

Calendar note: I know it is hard to calculate sometimes, but this is Canada in 2017, not Germany in 1937.  Jewbaiting is verboten.
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25 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Where do you draw the line?  Or are you agreeing with Altai and Hot Enough that ripping up a Quran is the same as murdering?

I draw the line where someone feels threatened or where physical assault occurs.

If someone rips apart a Quran at a meeting, that is violent but not threatening.   Ripping up a Quran on a Muslim family's front walk would be violent and harassing, and possibly threatening.

I don't agree with Altai that the act of ripping up a Quran should result in jail.  

I believe I understand what H.E. is trying to say: Altai's cultural norms are different than ours and we are only too happy to criticize and condemn her just as we (or some of us, anyway) do Muslims generally.  At the same time, we ignore our own culture's acts of violence and inhumanity because we so firmly believe we are in the right.  The innocent victims of our violence are not comforted because we aren't Daesh; they are just as injured or dead as they would be if Daesh were their attacker. But most people in the West ignore or are unaware of the actual extent of our collateral damage, partly because our kills don"t get the exposure Daesh kills get; our governments certainly aren't forthcoming about this issue and the media reports on it are often ignored, downplayed or disputed.   It helps that we are so certain of our moral high ground that we simply discount the reality of the horror our military interventions impose on the people in the countries we are "helping".   And I'm not pointing fingers either; I do exactly the same thing.  In my heart I know Daesh is evil but its only in my head that I understand that the States and Canada and all our allies together have killed as many or perhaps more innocent people than has Daesh.   

I don't believe that either Altai or H.E. think tearing up a Quran is as bad as killing 100 people.   But I haven't read every post on this thread so if they said that somewhere please do quote it for me, if you want.

 

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34 minutes ago, hot enough said:

Burning humans, not in effigy but in reality, "shaking and baking" people with phosphorus bombs, napalming people, carpet bombing people, spreading bomblets for children to play with, ... are all popular USA activities around the world. 

 

This is required in the Qu'ran...to make them hot enough.   ISIS supporters surely know all about that.

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9 minutes ago, overthere said:

Calendar note: I know it is hard to calculate sometimes, but this is Canada in 2017, not Germany in 1937.  Jewbaiting is verboten.

You might not have a full grasp of the extent of this in Canada and the USA right now, in 2017. I was shocked by the numbers for the USA. I recently posted an article on this. 

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I see from a reply to HE that Altai has said something ridiculous about trashing the quran is equivalent to murdering people ... Don't bother looking it up for me.   But I disagree with that completely, FWIW.  

Perhaps this is true " I now visualize a teenager pounding away on a keyboard, being as outrageous as possible in what she posts."

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