USA war crimes - atomic bombs

[OftenWrong]

4 minutes ago, hot enough said:

That is arrant nonsense. German war criminals were not spared the noose because of the "reality of the times".

 

 

The reality of the times was that several countries were working on the atomic bomb at the same time. Germans were ahead of everyone. The US wisely acquired the German scientists before the Russians did. They all knew about the science behind the bomb and that their enemies were working on it. The US didn't know how far along the Russians were, but given the destructive potential of the weapon it wouldn't be wise to wait around and find out. That's what I meant by the reality of the times.

Edited March 24, 2017 by OftenWrong

[hot enough]

9 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

No-one forces you to argue.  A 9/11 conspiracy theorist has no right to tell anyone they are divorced from reality.

Are you suggesting that I should adjust the way I am on this site to suit your needs?

You are one of a number of conspiracy theorists. You believe in the US official conspiracy fable. You continue to believe in this when there is nothing to support the things that you know nothing about. You don't even argue, again, because you know nothing about the science, the circumstances. You are woefully ignorant of the entire affair. 

I suggest that you bring some tiny measure of thought and knowledge to the discussions. 

[Guest]

Just now, hot enough said:

You are one of a number of conspiracy theorists. You believe in the US official conspiracy fable. You continue to believe in this when there is nothing to support the things that you know nothing about. You don't even argue, again, because you know nothing about the science, the circumstances. You are woefully ignorant of the entire affair. 

I suggest that you bring some tiny measure of thought and knowledge to the discussions. 

You mean watch your videos and agree with you about them? 

 

[hot enough]

5 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

The reality of the times

The reality of the times was that Germany was defeated. You folks are hopelessly ignorant of the most basic issues and history. 

[hot enough]

6 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

You mean watch your videos and agree with you about them? 

 

I mean bring forward one iota of proof or rational discussion. That should not have to be spelled out to you.

[OftenWrong]

2 minutes ago, hot enough said:

The reality of the times was that Germany was defeated. You folks are hopelessly ignorant of the most basic issues and history. 

Of course I know they were, and as I said to you the US acquired their nuclear scientists and equipment from the program. The German scientists were on the verge of developing a working weapon when Germany surrendered. That is history.

Maybe you can contribute something more than your lame personal sniping when confronted with facts? I guess you have nothing.

[hot enough]

Or you could address the fact that the US has been guilty of vicious war crimes during WWII, and for the following years right up to today. 

[hot enough]

26 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Of course I know they were,

 

"The reality of the times was that several countries were working on the atomic bomb at the same time. Germans were ahead of everyone. "

You were surreptitiously trying to advance your "be very afraid" "reality of the times", which you still have not done. War crimes are war crimes.

Quote

Maybe you can contribute something more than your lame personal sniping when confronted with facts? I guess you have nothing.

That's all you and your gang have done from the get go. Go back and find for me where any of them discussed the issues, you included. 

Edited March 24, 2017 by hot enough

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, hot enough said:

I mean bring forward one iota of proof or rational discussion. That should not have to be spelled out to you.

It's been spelled out to me many times.  Always ignored.  I don't come on here to argue by Google.  1

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, hot enough said:

"The reality of the times was that several countries were working on the atomic bomb at the same time. Germans were ahead of everyone. "

 

That's all you and your gang have done from the get go. Go back and find for me where any of them discussed the issues, you included. 

So get back on topic. Let's hear something useful. I pointed out your views on this are idealistic and naive, and I showed you why.

Another leftists going off the rails, in his own thread even. Not surprising, given the reality of the times.

[hot enough]

15 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It's been spelled out to me many times.  Always ignored.  I don't come on here to argue by Google.  1

And still you don't get it. Of what use is it posting things that illustrate that you are woefully ignorant of the things you address?

[hot enough]

16 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I pointed out your views on this are idealistic and naive,

And Noam Chomsky illustrated, if you had read it, that you don't know what you are talking about, OftenWrong!

[Guest]

Just now, hot enough said:

And still you don't get it. Of what use is it posting things that illustrate that you are woefully ignorant of the things you address?

I just don't believe I am.  I think you are.  That's the point.  Therein lies the fun. 

And as I've already stated, if you ever manage to prove me wrong, I'll just claim I knew it all the time. 

[OftenWrong]

2 minutes ago, hot enough said:

And Noam Chomsky illustrated, if you had read it, that you don't know what you are talking about, OftenWrong!

Maybe Norm would have preferred the Germans won.

[hot enough]

4 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Maybe Norm would have preferred the Germans won.

OftenWrong can't even get his name right. 

[OftenWrong]

Just now, hot enough said:

OftenWrong can't even get his name right. 

It's cause I don't like Gnome's name.

[Guest]

Just now, hot enough said:

OftenWrong can't even get his name right. 

We all make typos every now and then.  Even me, and I try not to.

[OftenWrong]

Just now, bcsapper said:

We all make typos every now and then.  Even me, and I try not to.

Intentional typos are like a weapon that disturbs the simpleminded.

[hot enough]

6 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

It's cause I don't like Gnome's name.

"Do not use diminutives or character substitutions in proper names that are not recognized by the original person to whom the reference is being made. For example, former Prime Minister Stephen Harper does not identify himself as Stevie therefore, it is unacceptable to identify him as Stevie. Likewise, Paul Martin did not identify himself as Mr. Dithers, therefore, it is unacceptable to identify him as Mr. Dithers.

In the discussion forums, such infractions will be considered as third-party insults."

[OftenWrong]

5 minutes ago, hot enough said:

"Do not use diminutives or character substitutions in proper names that are not recognized by the original person to whom the reference is being made. For example, former Prime Minister Stephen Harper does not identify himself as Stevie therefore, it is unacceptable to identify him as Stevie. Likewise, Paul Martin did not identify himself as Mr. Dithers, therefore, it is unacceptable to identify him as Mr. Dithers.

In the discussion forums, such infractions will be considered as third-party insults."

" Do not post inflammatory remarks just to annoy people. If you are not bringing anything new to the argument, then do not say anything at all."

- Your performance throughout this thread, despite efforts by several posters to engage you.

[Jason Laframboise]

33 minutes ago, hot enough said:

"Do not use diminutives or character substitutions in proper names that are not recognized by the original person to whom the reference is being made. For example, former Prime Minister Stephen Harper does not identify himself as Stevie therefore, it is unacceptable to identify him as Stevie. Likewise, Paul Martin did not identify himself as Mr. Dithers, therefore, it is unacceptable to identify him as Mr. Dithers.

In the discussion forums, such infractions will be considered as third-party insults."

I am curious do you think the United States deserved the attack on Pearl Harbor?

[dre]

3 hours ago, bcsapper said:

The idea that the war would have been over quickly without massive loss of American life, and loss of Japanese life greater than that which was lost in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined, is as ridiculous as the notion that the US government was responsible for 9/11.

 

I think that's revisionist history. Here is what the people actually involved have said...

Admiral William Leahy (Chief of Staff to Presidents Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman)

Quote

"It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.

 

Herbert Hoover

Quote

.the Japanese were prepared to negotiate all the way from February 1945...up to and before the time the atomic bombs were dropped; ...if such leads had been followed up, there would have been no occasion to drop the [atomic] bombs.

General Douglas Macarthur

Quote

When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor."

Genearal Carter Clarke

General Carl Spatz (commandar of airforce operations in the pacific)

Quote

if they knew or were told that no invasion would take place [and] that bombing would continue until the surrender, why I think the surrender would have taken place just about the same time.

 

ELLIS ZACHARIAS - Directory of Naval Intelligence

Quote

Just when the Japanese were ready to capitulate, we went ahead and introduced to the world the most devastating weapon it had ever seen and, in effect, gave the go-ahead to Russia to swarm over Eastern Asia.

General Paul Nitze (stragic bombing survey)

Quote

Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945 and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated."

 

The general consensus from military people at the time was "Are you insane? We already won!".

People who try to come up with a post-hoc justification are not only uninformed but disgusting people. They should kill themselves. This was one of the most evil acts ever commited in the history of the human race. A deliberate and calculated mass-murder of innocent people that was entirely punitive in nature. And the political purpose of it was not to win the war but to force the Japanese to give up their emperor and Potsdam ended up letting them keep it anyways.

Truly dispicable. An act of depravity so brazen that the perpetrators of 911 would be considered peace loving hippies in contrast.

[hot enough]

15 minutes ago, Jason Laframboise said:

I am curious do you think the United States deserved the attack on Pearl Harbor?

Had the situations been reversed, with the USA being subjected to conditions that the USA would not, today or ever, tolerate, the USA would have attacked Japan's "Pearl Harbor". 

[hot enough]

16 minutes ago, dre said:

 

Truly dispicable. An act of depravity so brazen that the perpetrators of 911 would be considered peace loving hippies in contrast.

They're one and the same people, in a manner of speaking.

[Jason Laframboise]

4 minutes ago, hot enough said:

Had the situations been reversed, with the USA being subjected to conditions that the USA would not, today or ever, tolerate, the USA would have attacked Japan's "Pearl Harbor". 

Interesting response.Do you think the Japanese were justified in their invasion of China?