Trumpism vs Globalism

[Cum Laude]

I see many of you on this forum are globalists. let's take a bit of a closer look.

Trumpism seeks a return to a national identity grounded in an economy that is gone forever.

Globalism seeks the gutting of nation-states in favor of regional and global authoritarian monarchies which will dole out the meager crumbs of a post-industrial economy to their favored mascots.

Neither is a cheery future, but globalism (which is advocated by the Democratic Party as well as the Republican Establishment) is the more dismal and creepy.

[blackbird]

I agree. The main international organization for globalism is the U.N.  The U.N. has a Human Rights Council made up of about 41 countries.  A lot of the countries on the Human Rights Council have a questionable human rights record, countries such as Cuba, China, Saudi Arabia, etc.  The U.N. has put a lot of energy into condemning Israel, which is the only democratic country in the middle east. 

Edited March 22, 2017 by blackbird

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I agree.   The main international organization for globalism is the U.N.  The U.N. has often done a poor job.  Even the U.N. Human Rights Committee is very doubtful when there are countries on it that do not respect human rights.  I think Iran is on the Human Rights Committee.  The U.N. has put a lot of energy into condemning Israel, which is the only democratic country in the middle east. 

At least they learn from their mistakes. They liked the ones they made in Rwanda so much they're using them again in South Sudan.

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

At least they learn from their mistakes. They liked the ones they made in Rwanda so much they're using them again in South Sudan.

I edited my comment just at the time you replied to the original.  That's why the slight difference.

The genocide in Rwanda was a disaster. 

Edited March 22, 2017 by blackbird

[Moonlight Graham]

trumpism is protectionism.  Like a new-age mercantilism.

It's amazing conservatives espoused free-trade and neoliberalism for decades, and now they're espousing the opposite in order to fix the problems caused by the neoliberalism they enacted in the first place.  Not very smart, are they!

Edited March 22, 2017 by Moonlight Graham

[blackbird]

41 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

trumpism is protectionism.  Like a new-age mercantilism.

It's amazing conservatives espoused free-trade and neoliberalism for decades, and now they're espousing the opposite in order to fix the problems caused by the neoliberalism they enacted in the first place.  Not very smart, are they!

I don't think Trump is going to want to change NAFTA with Canada much.  His concern is with the thousands of jobs that have gone to Mexico and China. 

Edited March 22, 2017 by blackbird

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

I don't think Trump is going to want to change NAFTA with Canada much.  His concern is with the thousands of jobs that have gone to Mexico and China. 

NAFTA is North American... so - yes - Mexico is part of it.  The FTA was the Canadian deal that was expanded.

Anyway, MG's point stands.  

Also - the knocks against the UN on this thread: some signatory countries abuse human rights, and that the UN failed to prevent genocides.  Are these reasons to disband the UN ?

The OP also doesn't explain what is "creepy" about globalism.  It seems that this is a matter of personal taste vs. economic orthodoxy.

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

It's amazing conservatives espoused free-trade and neoliberalism for decades, and now they're espousing the opposite in order to fix the problems caused by the neoliberalism they enacted in the first place.  Not very smart, are they!

There's no system that works effectively for all time. Things change, and our politics/ economics must change with them to keep up. Smart people learn to change accordingly.

[segnosaur]

On 3/21/2017 at 11:59 PM, blackbird said:

I agree. The main international organization for globalism is the U.N.  The U.N. has a Human Rights Council made up of about 41 countries.  A lot of the countries on the Human Rights Council have a questionable human rights record, countries such as Cuba, China, Saudi Arabia, etc.  The U.N. has put a lot of energy into condemning Israel, which is the only democratic country in the middle east. 

You do realize that it is possible for someone to both be in favor of "globalization" (through improved trade and international political and military cooperation between nations on a bilateral basis) and yet still be quite critical of organizations like the U.N.

Globalization (in general) is good... better trade improves the economy, economic dependence between nations makes conflicts less likely, and the resulting exchange of ideas can foster a better understanding between nations.

The U.N. is an outlier... the exception that proves the rule. (In fact, since members of the U.N. aren't required to actually engage in international trade or any sort of cooperation, it might be argued that the U.N. has little to do with 'globalization'.

 

[eyeball]

On 3/21/2017 at 5:22 PM, Cum Laude said:

I see many of you on this forum are globalists. let's take a bit of a closer look.

Trumpism seeks a return to a national identity grounded in an economy that is gone forever.

Globalism seeks the gutting of nation-states in favor of regional and global authoritarian monarchies which will dole out the meager crumbs of a post-industrial economy to their favored mascots.

Neither is a cheery future, but globalism (which is advocated by the Democratic Party as well as the Republican Establishment) is the more dismal and creepy.

Globalist can mean so many things almost all them pejorative in nature.  For example, I'm off the opinion we should have put a one world government in place first,  before we created a one world economy.  Unfortunately that sort of globalism scares the bejeebers out of people with an aversion to dark helicopters and communism.

Trumpism is exactly what was predicted in the article and book Jihad vs McWorld. Don't let the title of the article throw you, it was written before the word jihad was hopelessly politicized out of all proportion and meaning in the post 9/11 world.

Quote

The two axial principles of our age—tribalism and globalism—clash at every point except one: they may both be threatening to democracy

Trump represents a tribe that is reacting to globalism. Tribalism is the natural refuge that people seek against outside change that forces its way into their world.  The hegemony of the prime imperative of globalism - produce, get used to eating cat food or die - that the entire planet is subjected to reduces human beings to ultimate cogs which largely turn and churn to help propel us all towards the proverbial chase/race to the bottom. 

Apparently a one world government would have only made things even worse - sorta reminds me of the argument that doing anything about climate change will destroy the economy, which is apparently worse than destroying the world.

I know it's weird right?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Globalist can mean so many things almost all them pejorative in nature.  For example, I'm off the opinion we should have put a one world government in place first,  before we created a one world economy.  Unfortunately that sort of globalism scares the bejeebers out of people with an aversion to dark helicopters and communism.

Trumpism is exactly what was predicted in the article and book Jihad vs McWorld. Don't let the title of the article throw you, it was written before the word jihad was hopelessly politicized out of all proportion and meaning in the post 9/11 world.

Trump represents a tribe that is reacting to globalism. Tribalism is the natural refuge that people seek against outside change that forces its way into their world.  The hegemony of the prime imperative of globalism - produce, get used to eating cat food or die - that the entire planet is subjected to reduces human beings to ultimate cogs which largely turn and churn to help propel us all towards the proverbial chase/race to the bottom. 

Apparently a one world government would have only made things even worse - sorta reminds me of the argument that doing anything about climate change will destroy the economy, which is apparently worse than destroying the world.

I know it's weird right?

I was with you up until the climate change stuff.  There's no point in destroying the economy if the world is going to be destroyed anyway.  Might as well go to heaven on a full belly, that's what I always say. 

I like the idea of one world government though.  Could institute some forced contraceptive usage and bring the population down a bit.

[Cum Laude]

11 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Globalist can mean so many things almost all them pejorative in nature.  For example, I'm off the opinion we should have put a one world government in place first,  before we created a one world economy.  Unfortunately that sort of globalism scares the bejeebers out of people with an aversion to dark helicopters and communism.

Trumpism is exactly what was predicted in the article and book Jihad vs McWorld. Don't let the title of the article throw you, it was written before the word jihad was hopelessly politicized out of all proportion and meaning in the post 9/11 world.

Trump represents a tribe that is reacting to globalism. Tribalism is the natural refuge that people seek against outside change that forces its way into their world.  The hegemony of the prime imperative of globalism - produce, get used to eating cat food or die - that the entire planet is subjected to reduces human beings to ultimate cogs which largely turn and churn to help propel us all towards the proverbial chase/race to the bottom. 

Apparently a one world government would have only made things even worse - sorta reminds me of the argument that doing anything about climate change will destroy the economy, which is apparently worse than destroying the world.

I know it's weird right?

Maybe Mr. Trump has the cunning, agility and luck to stay exactly a step and a half ahead of the hounds. Second wish, the hounds will have the strength to mount the chase for four years. With any luck it will be beyond debate that we don not have a government but, may I use our host’s terminology, we have a racket. I feel that we will not even begin to pickup with nation building again until voters put down the idea of term limits and replace the congress completely and often. As long as the majority believe they have something to gain by keeping a congressman we will have “status quo”. Should Mr. Trump cause the status quo to lose it’s shine he will have served well.