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So-called refugees crossing Manitoba/American border.


taxme

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Let's now deal with the so called third party agreement with the U.S.

This “Safe Third Country” agreement with the United States,  states that asylum seekers who  pass through the US on their way to Canada on land are ineligible to make a claim in Canada, and vice versa. This is because they are supposed to apply for refugee status in the first nation they get to that is a member of the UN Convention On The Treatment of Refugees.

Based ont his agreement, asylum seekers will be sent back into the US where they are detained because  Article 4(2) of the Agreement states that the first  receiving country has the responsibility of determining refugee status claim of a person seeking asylum.

However there is a huge loophole. This agreement only applies and therefore is and will be enforced at land ports of entry.

So if I want to enter Canada illegally and avoid coming in at the land ports of entry, I can simply ask for a refugee application by crossing illegally onto Canadian soil.

Canada and the US could re-write the agreement to state the treaty will also be enforced against people illegally crossing into Canada or the US from each other' s country. If they did that the problem would obviously be directly addressed.

However when Trump said as his platform to get elected that he would deport 11 million illegals, Trudeau announced not once but over 5 times that Canada unlike the US welcomes people from all over the world. As he sent this message out, the idiot signaled  all the  illegal migrants in the US to come to Canada. The idiot was so clueless he couldn't figure out he just opened the floodgates playing into Trump's hands. There was Trudeau all smug and righteous and Trump pulled a Castro on Truderau just as Castro years ago dumped 250,000 so called refugees from Cuba into Miami. Castro dumped his pedophiles, drug addicts, serial killers, mentally ill, in one dumpa nd why, well the US said it would take in anyone from Cuba just as Trudeau said he will welcome in everyone.

Hey but the idiot Trudeau  then appointed a Somali refugee as his Immigration Minister and within days Somalis began crossing from the US illegally into Canada. Hey who saw that coming. Trudeau to this day does not feel there is a conflict of interest appointing a refugee to determine the fate of other refugees. This is the same Trudeau by the way who did not appoint an aboriginal Indian Affairs Minister following the well known protocol that it would place that person in a conflict of interest let alone an absolutely unfair position.

Now what Impact does not get is that the vast majority of people coming by LAND will be from the US. That is because geographically they can't come by land any other way.

However so called refugee applicants can come by sea or land.

If they come by air, they must come on a direct fliught, These people usualy will have already had their claim for asylum approved and they are already  determined to be refugees. If they have not, the air carrier must screen them now and if they don't have a legitimate passport they can't get on the plane.  Asylum seekers who arrive in Canada without a prior refugee determination, go through the refugee screening process.  Way back in October of 2002, Immigration Canada  at Pearson International Airport in Toronto initiated what was called  Project Identity which is now used at all airports and it means Canada Border Officers detain those who lack credibility, are evasive and uncooperative, or do not have identity papers. So we do nothing different then what they do in the US. As I earlier stated, if the asylum applicants can be shown to  have beenat a safe country prior to getting to Canada, back they go to that country. There are some exceptions. If they have  a relative already int he refugee applications stream in Canada can show they will be privately sponsored or can show they have family waiting for them in Canada, they will be allowed to go through the Canadian refugee system.

By sea, asylum seekers are detained on entry and l go through the refugee determination process.  What you are not told is that when Canada and other countries found themselves flooded with illegal economic migrants much like Europe is today, Canada asked the United States Navy and other country's navies such as India's Ayustralia's, New Zealand's and Nato member nations to intercept the ships  before they get to Canadian waters and arrest the coyotes on board and the shop Captains so now the Captains and coyotes prefer other methods.

Sea is still and has always been the no.1 way economic migrants go to Europe because of proximity. With Canada the long voyages deter a lot of the trips because cototes don't want to invest in sufficient amounts of food and fuel..

By the way Immigration Canada actively maintains stats on illegal migrant source countries and the source countries providing the economic migrant non refugees. It wont release then publically but it has sufficient data to see trends of origin countries producing non refugees flooding our system and plae them in a stream as it has done the other countries I mentioned to expedite the refugee process to vet out these non refugee economic illegal migrants.

It used to be asylum seekers would get on a plane and then flush their id down the toilet then come to Canada and say they have no documents. We knw they had to have them to get on the plane but their airline did not save the info. Now they must. So today,   lack of such documents will go against the asylum seeker’s credibility in the refugee determination process unless s/he can show good reason as to why s/he does not hold documents such as visas, identity cards etc: s106 IRP Act and the airline produces what they gave the airline to get on the plane.

By the way Canada demands if you come from many countries you have a visa or you are deported unless you apply for refugee status. from having to obtain a visa to visit. We also maintain list of favoured nations where you can come without a visa, i.e., Australia, Brunei, Ireland, Mexico and the United States.

Anyone on arrival, which means refugee applicants or illegals trying to get in through the refugee applicant system get  screened.

If they find out you were made a refugee in another country you are supposed to be deported.

By the way and someone really need advise both Impact and Justin on this, illegal or refugee, you can still be prohibited from entering Canada if you are found out to be a terrorist, suspected terrorist, human rights violator, war criminal or engaged in serious crime or fleeing the law.

However what Impact doesn't get is that we changed the refugee system to add a category which he conveniently ignores and that is if you committed a crime or were convicted of a crime in another country and we don't define that behaviour as a crime in Canada or give a sentence in Canada like the one given in the country where the criminal fled, that is grounds for that person to apply for refugee status in Canada and not be deported and not even be tried in Canada for the crime.

So let's make this clear for even Impact, If you shoot someone dead in a state of the United States where the death penalty applies and you are convicted of capital punishment and you can escape to Canada, we won't deport you. We ignore and over-ride the extradition treaties we have with the US for criminals.

Hey it gets even better. We have today, pedophiles, serial killers, one in particular from Iraq we took in as refugees.

Its a wonderful country.

 

 

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See Impact would like I stick to one sentence so he can reduce this complex issue to state any attempt to vet illegals won't work and is Nazi or Russian commie.

He'd like to end the debate right there.

I call him out as being intellectually dishonest and argue:

 

1-we have and we do create separate streams of processing for applicants for refugee status we know come from countries that don't produce refugees;

2-we can, we have the technological ability to vet from the refugee applicant process those coming by land from the US immediately and placing them in an expedited stream like we do those coming from certain nations-we already do it, we just need to update who goes in that expedited process;

3-we have to understand that Trump has stated he wants to deport 11 million people-he's engaged in a tactic to scare illegals to leave before he supposedly comes after them-he's engaged in a deliberate exercise of flushing- a hunter sends someone into the woods ahead of him with a stuck making noise-the birds fly up in the air, then the hunters hoots them-that is all Trump is doing and its working-as we speak he is making the noises, and the flushing is starting with I llegals headed to the Canada border-if they were legitimate refugee applicants they would have already applied for refugee status-of course they aren't-these are the illegals who never applied for refugee status because they knew they would not qualify, or rejected refugee applicants-they are panicking and headed to Canada and the idiot Trudeau has said-hey man, come on in, lookee here, I have a refugee at the border in charge of deciding who comes in-as Impact would say, YUP its a joke;

4-I said detain the illegals once vetted out from the refugee application process-detaining people hey now, according to Impact that means placing peole in Concentration Camps-he says that to me, whose family fled Nazi Germany, he says that to me, children and descendants of legitimate refugees and imigrants who fled persecution like we are Nazis and Russian Communists the very people we fled from-why because in his world, you can't for any reason detain anyone breaking a law well I say in the name of legitimate immigrants and refugees as well as Canadian citizens, bullsheeyat and take that politically correct b.s. of an argument and stuf it- an illegal is just that-you break a law you have to expect consequences-no we don't alow categories of people to break the law while others can not-that is crap;

5-the system I proposed is to put people in settlement camps-let the big mouth Impact right now on this forum prove that our existing detention centres that can no longer hold all the illegals are concentration camps-let him put up or shut up-

6-I stated we could build settlement communities with the illegals up North where they can build the homes in these centres, roads, put up hydro poles. etc. Let them build their way to Canadian citizenship through work. There is nothing inhumane about that. We say you are illegal, we are goingt to eport you, but if you want a chance, they work for it like we all did in the past-no instant home, no instant lottery ticket-up you go to the North-no the weather won't be nice, but you will have food, an opportunity to work, learn English, learn skills, learn to  be self sufficient so that after 5 years, you then can if you want apply for Canadian citizenship and move elsewhere.

At least I suggest something. All Impact has suggested is we allow people to break the law, prejudice the rights of legitimate immigration and refugee applicants, and create a permanent class of people with lo transferable skills who will fill ghettoes in cities and create a burden on the state.

I champion building a positive vision of a country and giving people a chance to build their future-he offers ghettoes, crime, mental illness, welfare and what else?

But hey Impact will feel better. He won't feel any liberal guilt because he will keep himself tucked away in his sheltered la la land far from the riff raff of life and the lice.

Yup.

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12 hours ago, Rue said:

Let's now deal with the so called third party agreement with the U.S.

This “Safe Third Country” agreement with the United States,  ....

 

I have many issues with this post...

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Canada and the US could re-write the agreement to state the treaty will also be enforced against people illegally crossing into Canada or the US from each other' s country. If they did that the problem would obviously be directly addressed.

They certainly could. But I doubt that they would. Trump and his audience are very pleased that the criminals and rapists are leaving. What possible reason would they agree to take them back? They're not welcome and they left for Canada. Canada can deal with them. And we will! We even have a system in place to deal with them. That system will no doubt require a big budget increase but nevertheless Canada will deal with them. The USofA will deal with those in their country and we will deal with those in ours. When they cross the border into our country they're not America's problem anymore. 

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As he sent this message out, the idiot signaled  all the  illegal migrants in the US to come to Canada. The idiot was so clueless he couldn't figure out he just opened the floodgates playing into Trump's hands. There was Trudeau all smug and righteous and Trump pulled a Castro on Truderau just as Castro years ago dumped 250,000 so called refugees from Cuba into Miami.

Lordy, it's like it was a secret that Canada is generous to refugee claimants. We've been doing it for years! Every immigration lawyer in Canada or out has been saying Canada will give a fair shake and treat you decently too. Its not a secret. Truduea was mentioning something that was very well known so how him mentioning it somehow opened the floodgates? The immigration and refugee laws in this country have not changed one iota since Trudeau's tweet. And you think there's something different now? The only thing different is that the USofA is endeavouring to change thier laws, not ours. The reason hundreds of folks have fled the USofA for Canada is because of what their government says its gonna do. What Trudeau tweeted is not the cause of the rush .Even when the weather gets nice and the supposed millions flee America, It still won't be Trudeau's fault. That fault belongs to the present US government and no one else.

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Castro dumped his pedophiles, drug addicts, serial killers, mentally ill, in one dumpa nd why, well the US said it would take in anyone from Cuba just as Trudeau said he will welcome in everyone.

And the Americans took many, many of them in.  They should be ashamed of themselves because the obvious answer was to send them back so Castro could dump them back again.  Cubans and their children are not all drug addicts, serial kilers or mentally ill. Many of those booted out from Cuba were merely labeled that so that Castro could claim what Trump is now claiming "We're getting rid of the trash! Cuba will be great again! Love me, I'm your fuckin Hero!"

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Hey but the idiot Trudeau  then appointed a Somali refugee as his Immigration Minister and within days Somalis began crossing from the US illegally into Canada. Hey who saw that coming.

What claptrap is that Rue? Tell us why a Somali refugee who made good should not be Immigration Minister? Perhaps only Old Stock Canadians should be immigration ministers? Whats the issue here? He not qualified appropriately? Some Non-ex Somali would have been a better choice? Maybe someone of the appropriate ethnic stock?  A ethnicity or ex-nationality from somewhere we don't many immigrants/refugee's from? Maybe an American. or a Frenchman. Irish perhaps? Whatever but certainly NOT a Somali. What is this country coming to...

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However what Impact doesn't get is that we changed the refugee system to add a category which he conveniently ignores and that is if you committed a crime or were convicted of a crime in another country and we don't define that behaviour as a crime in Canada or give a sentence in Canada like the one given in the country where the criminal fled, that is grounds for that person to apply for refugee status in Canada and not be deported and not even be tried in Canada for the crime.

Damn right we have such a law or would you prefer sending adulterers subject to draconian laws back to the hands of their oppressors? I like the idea that this Country has the kahonies to say 'Your laws are shit and we will not send this poor soul back to face your atrocious penalties'. 

end rant.

 

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6 hours ago, Peter F said:

...The reason hundreds of folks have fled the USofA for Canada is because of what their government says its gonna do. What Trudeau tweeted is not the cause of the rush .Even when the weather gets nice and the supposed millions flee America, It still won't be Trudeau's fault. That fault belongs to the present US government and no one else.

 

Nope....refugees were streaming across the CanAm border in ever increasing numbers long before the present US government took office.

If Trump is responsible for his government, then Trudeau is most certainly responsible for his.

 

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3 minutes ago, Boges said:

That claim requires some sort of citation. What about the Obama administration caused people to flee the US? 

 

Again....OK but the mods may strike me dead for posting the same Canadian data in multiple threads....but I will risk it.  

The Obama administration deported millions of refugees and immigrants because their asylum claims were denied or they were in the U.S. illegally.

land-border-refugee-claims.jpg

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/refugee-claims-border-1.3988024

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Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

Again....OK but the mods may strike me dead for posting the same Canadian data in multiple threads....but I will risk it.  

As I understand it, 2002 was one of the highest years on record. Someone should try and track down competitive data going back to then.

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8 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

As I understand it, 2002 was one of the highest years on record. Someone should try and track down competitive data going back to then.

 

True, as President Bush also deported many millions of illegals, just like President Obama.  

There seems to be a large body of people in the world hell bent on crossing international borders illegally or overstaying visas to achieve the same result, Canadians and Americans included.

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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7 hours ago, Peter F said:

Cubans and their children are not all drug addicts, serial kilers or mentally ill. Many of those booted out from Cuba were merely labeled that so that Castro could claim what Trump is now claiming "We're getting rid of the trash! Cuba will be great again! Love me, I'm your fuckin Hero!"

What claptrap is that Rue? Tell us why a Somali refugee who made good should not be Immigration Minister? Perhaps only Old Stock Canadians should be immigration ministers? Whats the issue here? He not qualified appropriately? Some Non-ex Somali would have been a better choice? Maybe someone of the appropriate ethnic stock?  A ethnicity or ex-nationality from somewhere we don't many immigrants/refugee's from? Maybe an American. or a Frenchman. Irish perhaps? Whatever but certainly NOT a Somali. What is this country coming to...

Damn right we have such a law or would you prefer sending adulterers subject to draconian laws back to the hands of their oppressors? I like the idea that this Country has the kahonies to say 'Your laws are shit and we will not send this poor soul back to face your atrocious penalties'. 

end rant.

 

In response to your first paragraph I did  not state any Cuban or their children were all drug addicts or even drug addicts or mentally ill. I stated The United States posed itself as a sanctuary for ANY citizen fleeing Cuba. As a result and it is fact, Castro dumped thousands of mentally ill patients and emptied his prison cells and sent them off to Florida. That is proven fact. Castro took advantage of the open sancturary comment. That is now what is happening in Canada. Because Canada's politicians are stating we will provide sanctuary to ALL which means illegals, we will be swamped. The pattern has started and it will escalate as the weather changes. You have done what Impact has done. You have tried to impose motives and words on me I did not state and then you act like a child swearing and trying to get personal and abusive.

Next, if you can't figure out why Canada does not appoint an aboriginal as Indian Affairs Minister and why it should not appoint a refugee as Immigration Minister, if you can't comprehend what a conflict of interest it is I can't help you. If you think its an accident the majority of people now making the crossing illegally are Somali and think its a coincidence be my guest. Clearly you are not able to comprehend what a conflict of interest is and why the current Minister us being used as a fall guy, a token and is not in the position to be able to turn back any Somali or any illegal migrant because of his conflict.

Next your last sentence makes no sense.Trudeau and his elected government have not passed any law, any policy, any regulation that says we  will now take in all illegals from the US and give them instant citizenship.When they do let me know. What they did do is open their stupid smug mouths and make comments construed to mean that. As a result we are now faced with an influx of illegals.

Now of course in your world you believe taking in illegals and giving them instant citizenship is a good thing. Anything else in your mind is worthy of you swearing and being intolerant. You Sir, are the model of tolerance. You want to open the border to anyone who comes because you are tolerant, then in the next breath swear and rant and show intolerance if someone disagrees with that.

As well you haven't debated the topic at all-you've simply name called and inferred that anyone who disagrees with you like me, is someone you should swear at and make false accusations up as to what I said.  Lol bring it on. You want to suggest I hate immirants, refugees, Cubans, children, you want to swear at me, lol bring it on.

There are not that you care approximately anywhere from 200 thousand to 500 thousand illegals in Toronto alone. These are people that have come here illegally and do not qualify for immigration or refugee status. You Sir do not know who they are and how they live. You assume precisely because you are an elitist, that their life in Canada now must be superior to where they came from. You make that assumption based on your belief that you are superior to these illegals who came here and they came to be just like you and live in a superior world.

At the very pith and substance of your assumption you are a tolerant lover of the unwashed masses welcoming them in is the assumption they wanted your lifestyle and want to live with you. Grow up. Walk outside your ghetto of moral righteousness. Live your damn suburb and Mama's basement and go into their ghettoes in the cities and see what you have actually enabled with your naïve, holier than thou superiority complex.

Go on. Have you ever had to spend one minute with an illegal and understand how they live? Yah you are an expert. The fact is you don't spend a penny of your own money to look after them. You expect taxpayer money to pay for it. In your world the government looks after everyone and everyone is entitled and the ability of the government to provide is unlimited.mGuess what. Your world is coming to an end. Your world of privilege where you think the government is unlimited in its ability to accommodate people is collapsing. The only reason you cheer on this government's chaos and confusion is because you don't think there will be any negative consequence. You believe that because you remain oblivious to the negative consequences. Oh I get you. In your city the 200-500 thousand illegals you don't see, smell or hear you just assume they are in utopia thanks to your love and accommodation. Oh let's pat Bwana on the back shall we. Lol go on in to Stabucks and have your 5 dollar coffee because its oppressive free coffee beans. Lol. Got it.

When was the last time you were at a Children's Aid hearing or in criminal court hmmm?. You want to smeer me as hating children because I think dumping them in cities undocumented is dangerous to them? Lol. Right.  Go on tell me, how undocumented children do when they are dumped as illegals in Canada. Go on.

 

Edited by Rue
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The Immigration Minister stated today he sees no discernable trend in a movement of illegals coming by land from the US. As the weather changes and the rates sky rocket as they will this summer, just like they do in the warm months in Europe, the Minister will be forced to acknowledge the problem he currently denies.

The fact is we do not have sufficient Border or RCMP personnel. The fact is we do not have the facilities nor did our government anticipate this event. Our government was caught flat-foot.

Trump has told Trudeau on Monday, its his problem if he doesn't block illegals from entering Canada.

The stage is set and hey its no problem because Impact will be joined by Peter F, Trudeau and no doubt Eye in welcoming and settling the illegals in their homes.

La La Land did not win the Oscar last night. But clearly Peter F wanted it to.

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On ‎2017‎-‎02‎-‎24 at 0:21 PM, Goh Shenas said:

Refugees coming nnorth of the border to Canada can only bring disease and rot our values.

I waited a couple of days to respond to you.  I personally believe you are some left wing nut job posing as a right wing extremist given the comments I have heard on this thread to anyone who questions an open border to illegals.

So let me make this clear to you, Eye, Peter F, Impact.

The fact that many Canadians believe giving illegal migrants automatic access and benefits when they step foot on Canadian soil I s not because we are against their culture,  skin colour, religion, nose shape, nostril or armpit hairs, the size of their penises or breasts, the language they speak or whether their teeth are crooked.

You got that? We clear?

Good.

Illegal migrants can not expect to be able to break laws and get away with it. However it does not justify using them as a pretext to engage in bigotry or hatred of anyone let alone them. Favourable treatment does breed resentment and backlash. Its why minorities like me are so concerned that improperly thought out laws and unfair enforcement is eve of laws are a direct danger to legitimate immigrants, legitimate refugees, new Canadians and visible minorities.

We have to try be fair and humane and that may mean creating new restrictions and limitations for those who expect favourable or unrealistic treatment.

It is a damn shame in the US Trump has been such an inarticulate, clumsy bafoon in handling the illegal immigrant issue. He's used words that undermine a legitimate concern. There is a legitimate concern about certain illegals. By scapegoating Mexicans and Muslims Trump changed the focus away from the issue to create a climate than now feels justified in hating specific ethnic groups, i.e., Muslims, Mexicans, of course Jews and that is wrong.

I was genuinely heartened to see American Muslims enter a Jewish cemetery after it had recently been vandalized in St. Louis and physically begin putting back up vandalized tombs. They reacted spontaneously.

No minority, and all of Canada is, wants to see minorities picked out and hurt. This nation is made of minorities. We want to make sure though that laws are applied fairly. As a minority Canadian and from refugees and immigrants all we have asked is equal treatment not favoured treatment. The chance to be in line is fair. Letting any of us jump the line is unfair. All of us who came lined up at one time or another. That is how it works.

The entrance is not wide open an unlimited-it has to bottle neck and slow down for processing and vetting.

It aint rocket science. When 8 lanes merge into 2, there's a line up. You want to drive your truck over other cars and smash y our way past everyone, something has to limit your behaviour. What I don't need is some smug elitist left wing white boy telling me that as a minority I can't be concerned about a backlash against minorities when laws are not fairly applied. That white boy aint the target of the hatred my people always are.

We minorities want equal treatment not unfair treatment in our favour. These liberal leftist snot faced white boys do not speak for us. We also have no problem with Conservative white boys and girls. They treat us as equals. They don't demand the government give anyone special treatment.

In regards to Taxme-where you and I disagree is on this-when my people came to Canada they embraced Canadian laws and culture. We did n ot shove our values on anyone. We put Canada first and still do. My Jewishness is a private thing. It became public because of the holocaust and it becomes public when people engage in anti-Semitism or attack Israel and use that as a pretext to hate all Jews.

Most Muslims who come here mind their own business and work hard. They are getting stereotyped as all being extremist and refusing to assimilate. I am not part of those who stereotype Muslims that way. I can not be. If someone assigns a negatie stereotype to all Muslims its as bad as when they do it to Jews or Ukrainians, or Irish or you Taxme only because you are white or British. I can't expect you to respect me unless I show the same in reverse. My family did not come to this country to break it down but to build it positively as thanks for letting us in.

Christian religion as it now is has reconciled itself with we Jews for the most part and thank God for that and maybe one day the same can happen with Muslims. Certainly it already has with progressive Muslims, Ismailis, Amidyah who I have been part of councils with along with all kinds of Christian sects, Hindus, Bahaiis, Unitarians, Buddhists, Taoists, atheist-agnostics.

All of us put a Canada vision first. No we do not need to openly advertise or speak about what we believe-we show it in charitable deeds not words.

We can and will sponsor private immigrants and refugees but we can't break the laws and allow others to destroy the system that makes it possible for immigrants and refugees to come here.

I personally was involved with a school teacher and his wife from Zimbabwe. His crime was being able to read. The insane Robert Mugabe issued an edict to kill of anyone who could read and he barely fled the border with his wife. He came to Canada with nothing. A private charity got him and his wife over. She had tuberculosis. He had paper stuffed in his shoes and rather than spend his bus fare walked 10 miles a day on Bloor Street to visit her everyday in a woman's hostel. He got up and went to work at Wonderland every morning for three hours. Took him four buses. He then landed a job as a janitor and gardiner for a church and went back to Ryerson, got a degree in urban planning and now works for the city.

He is a peaceful and loving man. Yah he was Christian. He had no issues with me being a Jew and helping him. I barely helped him. All I did was find stuff for his apartment like a toaster, chairs, a sofa, a bed all beng thrown out. That to me is the kind of guy we want in Canada. Intellectually keen, peaceful, caring and he now works helping others. People like him did not push the line nor would they ever.

Amidyah Muslims did not push the line escaping Pakistan. They had leaders in their community accompany them to refuge hearings and provide proof of what they fled from.

Not all of us who are against illegal migrants being rewarded are against refugees or immigrants, its the other way around. We don't want legitimate people being shut out because of line jumpers and no we don't want people like you Taxme assuming when we come to Canada we have different values. They said that about the Irish, Ukranians, Dhukkabors, Hndus, Vietnamese Boat people, Sieks, Chinese, blacks escaping slavery from the US, Fillippinos, Italians, Portugese, Jews, Sri Lankans, Lebanese, on and on. All of us came into Canada and we build this nation. We respect the British, French and aboriginal values and laws.

Why would I not? But my family and the other families came at a time, when we did not expect-we did not think anyone would help us. Catholic churches did. The Salvation Army did. Synagogues did. Various ethnic communities did and still do but no one expected or demanded. We expected hardships and maybe two or three generations before real change happened.

Its unrealistic to just dump people in cities as we are doing with illegals.

I am against that because of the suspected 200-500 thousand illegals in Toronto, those with mental illness, not going to school, being exploited I n their own communities for prostitution, crime, cheap labour, remain invisible and are not getting help.

Illegal migrant children are much more likely to be molested, raped, beaten, abused, turned into sex slaves So are their mothers.

Illegal migrants have rates of suicide, alcoholism, domestic violence, directly related to having to live invisibly and its not being treated.

No dumping an illegal in a school is not a favour. That child is not properly eating. He's coming to school being asked to translate for others and his parents 24 hours a day and not just language but culture. That child is not a child, they are a casualty of idiot liberals who think they have done them a favour giving them sanctuary.

Sanctuary my ass. Sanctuary does not deny who you are, it affirms who you are.

If I write a lot on this subject its because I have done my work with these people. They don't want pity, favourable treatment or anyone assuming they are unwashed savages in need of help. They just want a chance to work. Well the reality is many have to be stopped from entry and told they will like everyone else have to go to the back of the line and wait until its their turn.

Practice what I preach every-time I go to a hospital or medical clinic and not surprisingly the people shoving in line often are people who came illegally and were told they are rewarded for pushing in line. They think that is the way to do things in Canada. We certainly send them that conflicting signal from our governments..

 

Edited by Rue
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48 minutes ago, Rue said:

Next, if you can't figure out why Canada does not appoint an aboriginal as Indian Affairs Minister and why it should not appoint a refugee as Immigration Minister, if you can't comprehend what a conflict of interest it is I can't help you. If you think its an accident the majority of people now making the crossing illegally are Somali and think its a coincidence be my guest. Clearly you are not able to comprehend what a conflict of interest is and why the current Minister us being used as a fall guy, a token and is not in the position to be able to turn back any Somali or any illegal migrant because of his conflict.

Well geez Rue. You're no help. Whats the Conflict of Interest? Is the Immigration Minister going to grant himself refugee status again?  You are correct that I do not see the Conflict of Interest. You, who claim there is one, think its a grand debating point to respond that there's no point in explaining your claim? The conflict is so obvious that words cannot possibly explain it?  Being uninterested in explaining the conflict of interest justifies your claim? Whats the conflict of interest? 

1 hour ago, Rue said:

What they did do is open their stupid smug mouths and make comments construed to mean that. As a result we are now faced with an influx of illegals.

But, Rue, do we not agree the rules and regulations have not changed one whit? Events beyond Canada's borders have caused many to seek refuge in Canada. They hope and perhaps actually believe that Canada never kicks anyone out. Maybe the Coyotes even tell them that! And these poor suckers believe it! Doesn't matter a smidgen. We still have refugee boards that hear the claims and decide the issue. We may very well need more of them operating in the future, yes.  You think Trudeau's tweet changed everything? Nothings the same anymore because Trudeau tweeted one of Canada's decades long jerk-off point that Canada is a wonderful place full of immigrants and Aren't We Wonderful?   As you acknowledge, Trudeau's tweet changed nothing. Trump's tweet has convinced hundreds that perhaps Canada is a better prospect. But the refugee boards still stand and will continue to function even if they come as a great shock to the claimants.

Or perhaps you think because tweets = legislation we have to accept everyone of them because if we don't then Trudeau is a tweeting liar. You are ignoring the questions posed by the press to him and his responses. No we do not have the open borders you think his tweet enacted. We still vet. We still investigate. The boards still review the claims. If the claim is legitimate you're in. If not you're rejected and out. 

1 hour ago, Rue said:

Now of course in your world you believe taking in illegals and giving them instant citizenship is a good thing. Anything else in your mind is worthy of you swearing and being intolerant. You Sir, are the model of tolerance. You want to open the border to anyone who comes because you are tolerant, then in the next breath swear and rant and show intolerance if someone disagrees with that.

I am tolerant, Rue. Extremely tolerant. So tolerant you cannot believe it. Yet, with such vast amounts of tolerance, even I feel my tolerance tested at times. Your Cuban example being a great test.  What was the point of bringing up Castro throwing the contents of the prisons onto boats? Was it not an example of the times we are facing? Was it to warn us smug types that these refugee's are not the good folks we smugly assume they are? Were you not warning us that the USofA is an example of what happens when the head honcho says something silly like 'We welcome immigrants'?  Look what happened there when they took in many many Cubans from Cuban prisons because Castro tossed them out because Carter said something nice.  The USofA was forced to accept drug addicts, mental patients and serial killers. Those were the only people you mentioned, Rue. Nobody else. I think your inference and warning was very clear. If Trudeau doesn't keep his trap shut then we will be flooded with all those 'Bad Dudes' Trump keeps blathering about.  

Unlike you, I believe that the refugee boards determine who is a bad dude; a serial killer; a drug addict; a mental patient. Not you.

And so, that answers another assumption you had made about my tolerance levels - which I say again, are wayyyyy up there. I do not want open borders or instant citizenship (except for newborn babes. They get insta-citizenship right off the bat. No vetting, investigations, background checks, citizenship oaths or refugee boards for them.) You assume that since I see nothing wrong with Trudeau's tweet that I must therefore let everyone in and let everyone stay. You are wrong Rue, foolishly wrong. I like vetting refugee's and immigrants. I like background checks. I like deporting criminal claimants, liars, cheats. Maybe not the mentally ill. Certainly not parents of Canadian citizen children. 

Regarding the thousands of illegal immigrants - sorry, not thousands: Hundreds of thousands - hiding out in Toronto... What? They were here before Trudeau's tweet? Whats up with that? Maybe Trudeau's tweet really isn't the opening of the floodgates you're making it out to be. Perhaps the flood has already occurred.  

The rest of your post paints me as an ignorant fool with no idea of how the hundreds of thousands of illegals live. I agree! I have no idea how an illegal immigrant lives. I am quite sure that when you say Peter F wouldn't like to live like that if he knew how they live, I would agree. On the other hand, so what? Is there a point there? About illegal immigrants and how they live? Are they Cubans?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Saw an interview on the CBC this evening, which makes clear that most of the migrants are not refugees at all, but economic migrants. Many are not even fleeing Donald Trump. They set out to come to Canada to begin with. The interview made clear that they definitely know all about Trudeau's tweet, and that they know all about the rules and how to get around them.

With European borders tightening and increased anti-immigration anxiety in the United States, a rising number of migrants from as far away as Africa and Asia are turning to the Central American migrant corridor in the hopes of reaching a new promised land: Canada. \\

Tapachula, in the Chiapas region of Mexico, is a key transit hub on the Mexican-Guatemalan border. CBC News met dozens of migrants there, young men and women who fled their homes in Somalia, Ghana, Guinea-Bissau, Ethiopia, Eritrea, India, Bangladesh, Nepal and Haiti.

Many say they began their journeys — which take between three and five months and cost upwards of $20,000 US — with Canada in mind. Others changed their plans and want to reach Canada in fear of U.S. President Donald Trump.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/african-migrants-mexico-dreams-canada-1.3992471

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7 hours ago, Peter F said:

Well geez Rue. You're no help. Whats the Conflict of Interest? Is the Immigration Minister going to grant himself refugee status again?  You are correct that I do not see the Conflict of Interest. You, who claim there is one, think its a grand debating point to respond that there's no point in explaining your claim? The conflict is so obvious that words cannot possibly explain it?  Being uninterested in explaining the conflict of interest justifies your claim? Whats the conflict of interest? 

But, Rue, do we not agree the rules and regulations have not changed one whit? Events beyond Canada's borders have caused many to seek refuge in Canada. They hope and perhaps actually believe that Canada never kicks anyone out. Maybe the Coyotes even tell them that! And these poor suckers believe it! Doesn't matter a smidgen. We still have refugee boards that hear the claims and decide the issue. We may very well need more of them operating in the future, yes.  You think Trudeau's tweet changed everything? Nothings the same anymore because Trudeau tweeted one of Canada's decades long jerk-off point that Canada is a wonderful place full of immigrants and Aren't We Wonderful?   As you acknowledge, Trudeau's tweet changed nothing. Trump's tweet has convinced hundreds that perhaps Canada is a better prospect. But the refugee boards still stand and will continue to function even if they come as a great shock to the claimants.

Or perhaps you think because tweets = legislation we have to accept everyone of them because if we don't then Trudeau is a tweeting liar. You are ignoring the questions posed by the press to him and his responses. No we do not have the open borders you think his tweet enacted. We still vet. We still investigate. The boards still review the claims. If the claim is legitimate you're in. If not you're rejected and out. 

I am tolerant, Rue. Extremely tolerant. So tolerant you cannot believe it. Yet, with such vast amounts of tolerance, even I feel my tolerance tested at times. Your Cuban example being a great test.  What was the point of bringing up Castro throwing the contents of the prisons onto boats? Was it not an example of the times we are facing? Was it to warn us smug types that these refugee's are not the good folks we smugly assume they are? Were you not warning us that the USofA is an example of what happens when the head honcho says something silly like 'We welcome immigrants'?  Look what happened there when they took in many many Cubans from Cuban prisons because Castro tossed them out because Carter said something nice.  The USofA was forced to accept drug addicts, mental patients and serial killers. Those were the only people you mentioned, Rue. Nobody else. I think your inference and warning was very clear. If Trudeau doesn't keep his trap shut then we will be flooded with all those 'Bad Dudes' Trump keeps blathering about.  

Unlike you, I believe that the refugee boards determine who is a bad dude; a serial killer; a drug addict; a mental patient. Not you.

And so, that answers another assumption you had made about my tolerance levels - which I say again, are wayyyyy up there. I do not want open borders or instant citizenship (except for newborn babes. They get insta-citizenship right off the bat. No vetting, investigations, background checks, citizenship oaths or refugee boards for them.) You assume that since I see nothing wrong with Trudeau's tweet that I must therefore let everyone in and let everyone stay. You are wrong Rue, foolishly wrong. I like vetting refugee's and immigrants. I like background checks. I like deporting criminal claimants, liars, cheats. Maybe not the mentally ill. Certainly not parents of Canadian citizen children. 

Regarding the thousands of illegal immigrants - sorry, not thousands: Hundreds of thousands - hiding out in Toronto... What? They were here before Trudeau's tweet? Whats up with that? Maybe Trudeau's tweet really isn't the opening of the floodgates you're making it out to be. Perhaps the flood has already occurred.  

The rest of your post paints me as an ignorant fool with no idea of how the hundreds of thousands of illegals live. I agree! I have no idea how an illegal immigrant lives. I am quite sure that when you say Peter F wouldn't like to live like that if he knew how they live, I would agree. On the other hand, so what? Is there a point there? About illegal immigrants and how they live? Are they Cubans?

 

 

In regards to the comments in paragraph  a  Canadian of Somalian refugee origin has aconflict dealing with illegal migrants from his homeland posing as refugees or for that matter anyone else illegal posing as refugees. If you can't understand that you either deliberately choose not to or the concept of conflict of interest is too hard for you to grasp. Either way I don't care.

In regards to your second paragraph at no time have I advocated or stated the refugee board and refugee process should not continue.  I have proposed as already exists an updating of the expedited process to vet fake refugee applicants out as we do now for refugee applicants from certain countries, only now we need to add to the expedited list for vetting all refugee applicants coming by land from the US. Again you fail to grasp what I actually stated and wrongfully assume I am against the refugee process.

In regards to the comments in your third paragraph and fourth paragraph  you again show you can't grasp what. I used the Castro analogy to explain what happens when well intentioned politicians or stupid ones  make comments that will be construed by migrants to mean ANY migrant can come to a country. Trudeau's comments have now been construed that way. The fact he appointed a Somali refugee as his Immkigration Minister was also construed to mean he has placed someone in Immigration who can be assumed will be lenient to anyone claiming to be a refigee whether they are or are not, particularly if they are from Somalia. Nowhere did I state I don't want people from certain countries because of their race or culture. Its their illegal status not their race, religion, country per se I challenge. Its their claiming o be fleeing political persecution when they are not., which I challenge. By lying, by posing as refugees when they are not, they push in front of and waste and abuse the services we do have set aside for legitimate refugees and no we do not have the facilities to take in anyone you think is poor..

I did not attack Cubans as a people nor do I attack Somalis as a people. I simply argue anyone and everyone must be treated in the same manner when they step into our country and that means not jumping the line and expecting instant Canadian citizenship and all the benefits it provides.

What I have stated is that when politicians make idiotic poorly thought out comments, they will be  misconstrued and trigger reactions to provide incentive for illegal criminal syndicates, coyotes and illegals to flood Canada abd yes just as Trudeau has now  made his stupid comments, once before the US did enabling  Castro to dump undesireables in the US and who now do you think is coming in from the US? You think they are all innocent poor people? Grow up. Crawl out of your cacoon man. Find out who these people are coming.

In regards to your fifrth paragraph regarding undocumented illegals in Toronto you again show you can't grasp the point and revel in your ignorance of it and again misconstrue what I said. . There are according to Toronto Metro Police estimates of 200-to 500,000 undocumented migrants in Toronto, i.e., illegals, not thousands. Hundreds of thousands. Of course its not thousands. What planet do you live on?

 Whether Trudeau is responsible for all of them is not the point, he's trigged an incoming wave we now have to deal with. At no time did I blame him for all of the ones already here but he is as irresponsible and stupid as the politicians who have without any thought made statements that Canada will welcome illegals. We have Mayors telling the world, come on in. Of course they are. These illegals will be pandered ethnic votes for these Mayors in the next election nd give these Mayors a pretext to demand more money from the provincial and federal giovernments. If you can't get how Mayors and local politicians manipulate and pander illegal migrant votes to build their little fiefdoms get a reality check.

In regards to your last paragraph you admit you are ignorant of how illegals live. Well start there. Instead of assuming I hate such people and do not want them in Canada read what I write and why I am challenging he flawed system. You and people like you precisely because of your wilful ignorance, won't take the time to find out what you are doing to the people you think you are helping. You are setting them up for failure nd social hardship to serve your own need to feel like some white saviour. Tolerant? You are the worst of bigots. You pose and play as a missionary bringing in the unwashed savages to proseltyze and convert to your righteous life. Excuse me if I vomit Bwana. Go convert someone else. Shove your missionary position

You don't get it because you have made it clear you don't want to get it. Until you take the time to work with the very people you think can be dumped in unlimited amounts in cities-until you see how that dumping works and what it does to such people you won't get it and I Sir have no time or tolerance  for guilt ridden liberal Bwana missionaries like you. I spend and have spent too much time in court and in agencies with the very people you condone dumping in Canada.

Legitimate immigrants, legitimate refugees, illegal migrants who are neither of the first two, are not all the same. Stop pretending they are. Stop pretending fake refugee applicants don't swamp the system and hurt legitimate refugee applicants.

Stop pretending when illegals jump the line and get better benefits then Canadians born in this damn country it won't create a backlash against legitimate new Canadians or all visible minorities...

Get real. Get your privileged buttox down to a food bank or volunteer in a centre for illegals. This aint about refeugees. Its about illegals people who are not refugees or immigrants, people who get into Canada and then become invisible at least to you. Thousands you say. Wow. Talk about oblivious to reality. You have any idea the number of illegal undocumented migrants walk the streets with mental illness and chronic disease and have flooded our hospitals and community centres? You have any idea how many hundreds of thousands of Canadians are NOT sending their children to school and not learning English and are trapped in their ghettoes? Clearly not. Maybe its time you got off your buttox and went and visited some of the high rises I have been to and see how these people live. Yah man I think some lice, some bed bugs, some viruses would look good on you after touching the elevator buttons. Lol. You'd last a minute.

Go on ask your buddy Trudeau why he doesn't take photo ops with Somalis in Jamestown or in Brampton. Ask him.Ask him why he won't pose with them or for that matter the Yazidis he hides behind to avoid dealing with the illegal migrant issue.

Yah I love you liberal types. Yah the poor are great if you can control the photo ops with them right? Man I know your type. Try bring you out to meet them and explain the thing moving on them is lice and they can jump twenty feet and lol people like you run no matter how fat and privileged you are. Yah I bet you hug people with lice all the time.

Get real man. Get back to me when you pick lice out of your hair at the end of the day and have to dump your clothes and shave your hair short. Tell me what its like to have to get an aids test, a hep c  shot a hep b shot, get screened for tb. Go on. Lecture me how tolerant you are and how I am not when I have had to go through all that crap. Tell a nurse who works with such people she's intolerant because she is sick and tied of illegals taking beds away from legal law abiding people.

Yah I bet you are tolerant unlike the teachers swamped with screwed up kids who can't speak English or French and  whose adjustment issues can't even be dealt with because they can't explain why they pee their pants or freak when they are asked to sit in front of a window.

Yah tell me about it.

Get a reality test man.

 

 

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Our immigration minister just said he will allow convicted dual citizenship terrorist to keep thier canadian citizenship even if they were trying to kill canadians and the toronto 18 guy that lost his ,it will be given back. That is not looking after the interest of canadians, it is all political. Time to get old stock canadians back into running this country before it is too late..

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9 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Last year just under 2500 refugee claimants crossed the border into Canada illegally. The rate is up this year, and if this increased rate continues there will be just over 2600 this year. Time to build a multi-billion dollar wall?

Last year Trump had not announced he was cracking down on illegals, the very illegals who now will head to Canada. Your assumption the rate of illegals is not going to increase at large rates because of Trump's initiative is absurd. Your assumption that choosing a Muslim refugee from Somalia will not be seen as a sign to illegal Muslim migrants in the US not just Somalis to head to Canada is absurd. Your assumotion the speeches and bragging Trudeau and Ciy Mayors have made public welcoming anyone who wants to come to Canada is absurd. Your assumotion that when the weather gets better the illegal entry across our borders won't sky rocket is absurd.

You deny the obvious because you insist on playing the politically correct role.

By the way the attempt to reduce legitimate concerns as to vetting ad managing illegals by ridiculing it as a wall building exercise, its the kind of smug elitist know it all leftist arrogance many of us are sick of. This thread is not about building a wall. You reduce it to that because its what you do stereotype with extreme misrepresentations positions other than your own.

Yah yah. Build a wall. Tee hee. Trump is so silly. It was Obama who started building that wall Impact. When he started building it you had nothing to say.

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13 minutes ago, Rue said:

Your assumption the rate of illegals is not going to increase at large rates because of Trump's initiative is absurd.

I am simply looking at real data, not imagined increases. You are the one making assumptions. You are assuming that the rate will skyrocket. Perhaps that will be the case, but so far the statistics do not confirm your assumption.

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From Canada's state broadcaster (CBC):

Quote

"The numbers may look high, but that is because the range you are looking at is one where Canada has been receiving unusually low numbers of claimants," Dench said in an email interview, noting that there were more than 8,000 land border claims made annually from 1999 to 2004.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/refugee-claims-border-1.3988024

 

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On ‎2017‎-‎02‎-‎26 at 6:29 PM, ?Impact said:

Verbosity, combined with spurious false allegations doesn't constitute debate.

Right but sentence with spurious false allegations constitutes debate. Lol. Love the logic.

Oh do share the false allegations and explain why they are false.

 

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10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Thousands of refugees were crossing the Canadian border each year long before President Trump came along.

 

There were. His latest initiative to crack down on illegals no doubt will trigger a new cycle but the movement has been there long before Trump. It slowed down quite a bit thanks to the third party rule initiated not just in the US and Canada but in Europe. Forum shopping slowed down until the Syrian civil war and Germany's extremely generous offer to take in the millions it did. Not just Syrians but millions from Africa flooded Europe seeking passage to Germany via Greece. That exodus continues. Most of the peope coming over are African, or Middle East migrants from countries with economic turmoil and famine. They of course see Europe as offering the kind of life no African country can provide not to mention the Arab States do not take in refugees as citizens. They refuse. They did imprison Palestinian ones and said they would showcase them as a reminder to the world that until Israel is disbanded they will keep the descendants of these people imprisoned in camps but Saudi Arabia, Iran, Egypt name the Arab state, it won't accept refugees. In fact Sudanese try to come to Israel which has no room for them and must turn them away at the Egyptian border. Israel interestingly takes in refugees-Jewish ones. It also takes in members of the Bahaii faith, gays and lesbians, and Arab Christians fleeing persecution. It at one point took in 10,000 Muslims from the Croatia-Serbia war. Not one, not one Muslim from that war was taken in by a Muslim country let alone an Arab one. You won't find a Somali a citizen of any Arab state.

Europe is to Africa what the US has been to Mexico and South America.

South Africa interestingly became a beacon for Zimbabwes, Somalis, Nigerians, Ghanaians, and all of these economic migrants have  met with strong resistance but hey impact would never suggest South Africans have backlashed against so called refugees who are economic migrants, no no, that simply is something white racists do.

Actually the back-lash in South Africa is producing street riots and attacks on the Somali community or one as South Africans accuse them of being rude, arrogant and refusing to mix into South African culture.

You move people in mass amounts to different countries socio-economic consequences will arise. Dismissing it simply as being anti Muslim or anti refugee is a crock. The fact is Russia, China, and the Aran=b States refuse to take in Muslims and the people who claim Canada or the US is anti Muslim never acknowledge what I just said. They save their selective criticism for people like me who challenge immigration policies not being followed not people's religion

Now with this thread lingering and Impact trying to act as if he is on higher moral ground as are the others who argue any challenge to illegal migration is racist  I say save the politically correct crap.

You put someone in the Ministry in charge of this subject who has a conflict like a Somali refugee who is now the Minister I would say the same about myself if I was offered the job. I don't see how as a son of a refugee like myself  no different than this new Minister of Immigration could be expected to be neutral with such a sensitive issue and remain unconflicted about my people or his coming across the boarder. I would recuse myself because of that and also I would refuse to be used as a token.

Interestingly I was told by the federal government during an interview for a security position years ago that I wasn't chosen because it was felt as a Jew I couldn't be used in certain matters because it was felt my ethnicity lent to an appearance of conflict and a predisposition to favour a specific nation. The point is its an assumption that goes on each day when people are screened for certain high clearance and security positions but clearly not with our Ministry of Immigration.

I again repeat the person appointed is a good man and perfectly honest. He was put in a position of conflict that will send the wrong signal to illegal Somalis and Muslim migrants since he is both. It will put expectations in their mind as well as Africans, he will be soft on illegals. That is unfair on him and it will create backlash on genuine Somali refugees. It was not thought out. Right now the sad fact is most people leaving Somalia who can get to North America or Europe are economic migrants not refugees. They are escaping a failed nation with no true government or tax system or national enforced laws. The state is not persecuting anyone one people. They are all victims of a failed state equally. Thar makes them dirt poor and fleeing poverty. Poverty is not a criteria under the political refugee definition. If it was, then anyone from a third and fourth world country should automatically be given Canadian citizenship and our social system would collapse from the demand to provide housing, food, etc.

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9 minutes ago, Rue said:

He was put in a position of conflict

  • No more doctors as Minister of Health
  • No more lawyers as Minister of Justice
  • No more farmers as Minister of Agriculture
  • No more soldiers as Minister of National Defence
  • No more bankers as Minister of National Revenue or Minister of Finance
  • No more athletes as Minister of Sport

 

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10 hours ago, ?Impact said:

I am simply looking at real data, not imagined increases. You are the one making assumptions. You are assuming that the rate will skyrocket. Perhaps that will be the case, but so far the statistics do not confirm your assumption.

And you are assuming they won't. Do you have a point? Why is your assumption less of an assumption than mine?

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