Flawed Immigration Process

[betsy]

 

Quote

 

10 hours ago, hernanday said:

You claimed jews are mixed with arab blood, but arabs nor jews are not a race, arabs are an ethnicity and a culture, jew is a religion.

 

Judaism is a religion.

Take lessons from Netanyahu:  Chinese are called Chinese because they come from China.  Japanese are Japanese because they are from Japan.  Jews are called Jews because they come from Judea!

Edited February 16, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

10 hours ago, hernanday said:

Harper nuked the economy already, can't nuke it again.

 

So, prove that you know what you're talking about.  I'm saying you're blabbing because of your response. 

As far as I know, Harper/Canada was exemplary at the time the world was struggling with that crash.  Canada became the model, and advises were sought from Canada.

 

So explain......how exactly did Harper nuke our economy?

Edited February 16, 2017 by betsy

[Omni]

50 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

So, prove that you know what you're talking about.  I'm saying you're blabbing because of your response. 

As far as I know, Harper/Canada was exemplary at the time the world was struggling with that crash.  Canada became the model, and advises were sought from Canada.

 

So explain......how exactly did Harper nuke our economy?

worst handling of a recession since the wwII

[betsy]

1 hour ago, Omni said:

worst handling of a recession since the wwII

Explain.

Edited February 16, 2017 by betsy

[The_Squid]

4 hours ago, betsy said:

Jews are called Jews because they come from Judea!

LOL

Aren't they Jews because they're Jewish?

Are Canadian Jews from Judea?  Or are they Canadians...  who are Jews...  because they're Jewish?

[Rue]

14 hours ago, hernanday said:

1-Israeli apartheid is wrong, when will you condemn the shame that is Israeli apartheid., why won't you condemn israeli apartheid? 

2-99% of egyptians today classify themselves as Arabs. 

3-Non verbal language is ineffective because different people and cultures communicate different things by the same behaviours.  So lack of eye contact in one culture can be perceived as dishonesty, but in some cultures people are told to avoid eye contact with authority, and others are taught to look you in the eye and lie and then different people have different abilities and tendencies.

4-You claimed jews are mixed with arab blood, but arabs nor jews are not a race, arabs are an ethnicity and a culture, jew is a religion.

5-And if the in person interview is valuable because 90% of the communication is what they don't say, then you don't need the in person interview because its what they don't communicate that matters, not what they do.

I have numbered your latest above responses to make them easier to respond to.

In regards to 1, you can repeat that there is apartheid in Israel and ignore actual apartheid in Muslim sharia law nations in the Middle East which along with the holocaust compelled Israel to create a nation to protect Jews, but it will not make it true. However I would expect you to repeat it over and over.

In regards to 2, you again fabricate and pose your fabrications as fact with zero reference. If you knew anything about Egyptian culture you would realize what yous ay is as false as calling Iranians Arabs. However at this point I would expect you to show ignorance not just towards Jews but Arabs and Egyptians to.

In regards to 3,  what a silly thing to say and again it shows your ignorance. The fact that people may because of cultural differences express things in different ways non verbally does not mean you throw out interviews. What an illogical thing to say. To start with there is something called cross cultural psychology. People are given training all the time on cultural differences in how people express and observe their values let alone pose non verbally. As well you show your ignorance as to non verbal language because there is in fact non verbal language that is not dependent on cultural difference and there are ways to neutralize distortion from cross cultural siffences when communicating. Again because you don't understand this, you can't comprehend that it is possible to interview people of different cultures. Your ignorance as to it, is not surprising.

In regards to 4, the fact that Jews and Arabs have dna and genetic characteristics that trace back to the same origins doe snot define them as race. Again you show you are ignorance of race. Race is not defined by blood type. Race is a subjective description invented by anthropologists and individuals at a time when they knew little about genetics and so they classified people subjectively based on skin colour, nose shape, hair texture, which are secondary characteristics that do not define race.

In fact a coal black African man and a cauasian man could have more in common genetically than two black African men or two white men. We now know that because of our awareness of genetics and this now means race has proven not to exist, it remains a subjective definition for those who think secondary physical characteristics make people different.

In your case your ignorance of race holds you to the assumption that blood type or dna coding makes people of the same race if its similar. It does not. What you have done again is to show your ignorance as to a subject, misunderstand it, then based on your ignorance project an inference as to meaning on what I said. At no time did I describe Jews or Arabs as a race. You did and assumed such from my comment about blood type.

I have responded on this forum ad infinitum explaining Arab peoples are a mixed people. They range from pale blonde blue eyed Caucasians to dark black people who look African and every mix in between. Likewise with Jews. Neither of us define our identity by race. You do because its what you do-you in fact engage constantly in racism in your assumptions.

We call  Jews and Arabs semites based on tracing both of us back to languages we used to speak to be accurate.

Now as I stated and you need to read up on the term "Arab" today is use din 3 contexts. One is a negative one designed to stereotype anyone who is Muslim and comes from the Middle East. It usually a negative stereotype associated with terrorism or its stereotyped as someone who "looks" like an Arab, i.e., someone in robes with a mustache/beard and looks like an Emir or someone out of Lawarence of Arabia or what we associate with women in body and head coverings. The fact is many women who wear coverings are Muslim but not Arab they could be Afghani, Iranian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Indonesian for example.

Next Arab in terms of its most accurate use would describe the remaining descendants of the Beduins because most Arabs not from the Beduin lineage are a mix of Freek, Roman, Turkish, Russian, Chinese, White, Albanian, Indo-Pakistani, African, on and on. They have every physical characteristic there is, every skin tone and colour, bug and small noses, on and on..

The term Arab was used by British and French colonialists as well as other European colonialists, the Romans and Greeks to refer to the remaining desert Arabs who had tribes each with their own leader. Those people now are called Beduin. The remainder of Muslims in the Middle East have been urbanized or don't descend from Beduins and so do not maintain their culture or traditions and so in that sense they are not "true' Arabs.

Gamel Abnel Naseser a Colonel in the Egyptian Army was put in power in Egypt with the assistance of the CIA in th e 1950's to replace the corrupt King of Egypt. That King in Egypt had no blood ties with the Saudis or Iraqis or Kuwaitis or UAE, Oman, Qatar, Yemen, Bahrain families that the colonialists p lacted and gave puppet kingdoms to .

The Faisal family had two sons, one placed as the puppet King of Jordan, one the puppet King of Iraq, the remaining family were given Saudi Arabia and the supposed Arab monarchs in the rest of the Middle East were British inventions using tribe families favourable to the British. Britain controlled the oil by propping puppet monarchies in these nations. These families have nothing to do with the former monarchy in Egypt which is a completely distinct culture. Egyptians and Irans have their own ancient civilizatiosn they consider separate and apart from the Beduin and desert peoples of the Arabian peninsula. They are proud of their unique histories and do not mix them./

In Fact Ghaddafi in Libya reinvented Libyans as Arab peoples like Beduins trying to imitate Beduin culture. The old peoples of the Arabian peninsula who went on to become Muslim moved from Morrocco to Afghanistan and back again. Borders as we know them today were British and French inventions to enable control zones.

These borders ignored the actual tribal inhabitants whether they were Christian, Muslim Jewish, Kurd, Berber, Yazidi, Alawite, Zoroastrian, Bahaii, Druze.

Often feuding tribes were jammed into the same countries to give the British and French an excuse to rule arguing they needed to oversea these countries from internal civl wars. The recipe was simple, create artificial zones of feuding tribes to keep a perpetual state of dysfunction to enable divide and conquer to control these peole and maintain access to the oil.

When Nasser came about he was influenced by Hitler. He and his right hand man Anwar Sadat had Hitler mustaches, openly admired Hitler. They created a government that was based on Nazism. Syria and Iraq did the same thing. The Iraqis and Syrians used the Bath party as the apparatus to install their Nazi ideology.

All three during WW2 were Nazi imitation states. The Mukhbarat were based on the Gestapo of Germany. The armies to this day goose step. were riding pants and riding boots and sport German WW2 helmets in dress parades and use the Nazi salute.

The Hitler mustache was wide spread among Arabs.

When Hitler fell, hundreds of thousands of Nazis moved to Syria, Egypt and Iraq and ran their governments.

You clearly have no idea of the role of the Mullah of Jerusalem, Yasir Arafat, an Egyptian drug trader trained by him, etc.

You clearly have no clue what Nasser said and did. Nasser came about in the late 50's and turned on the CIA and the West no different then Ghaddafi and Sadaam Hussein would years later, also used as CIA puppets in the beginning of their reigns.

Nasser stated that the Middle East was hopelessly divided and could never obtain any unity unless it reinvented a common vision identity. So he proposed the pan-Arab definition a political one totally different to the Beduin one or traditional Arab definition.

His definition of the pan Arab was a people united by 2 things, the Arab Language and  he common agreement that Israel must be wiped out.

He was not a religious man although Islam was considered part of the Arab identity to him but not an essential one.

That pan Arab definition is the framework of the Arab League of Nations but it is not to be confused with the Arab definition associated with lineage to the Beduin peoples and the two terms are used distinctly.

When one talks of "Arab" culture, we refer to an ancient language and this includes bodies of literature, poetry, art, food, clothing and specific words and accents when speaking Arabic. The Arabic language accent  of an Egyptian is completely different than that of an Arab speaking Jordanian which is diferent than an Arab speaking Iraqi, and so on. Arabic has different dialects and accents.

The definition of an Arab today has evolved to mean a collective identity with common links to the Arabic language and ties to existing Arab countries but its a definition that varies in how its expressed and practised and one does not have to be Muslim to be an Arab. Christians and Jews are and can be Arabs. Mitzrahi Jews and Palestinian Christians call themselves Arabs. Israeli Muslims and Christians call themselves Arabs.

Egyptians do not. Their Egyptian identity is distinct. When they use the Nasser definition of pan Arab identity they use different descriptions than when they talk about their culture-for Egyptians Arab is a political term to describe the alliance of Middle East peoples who speak Arabic not anything else. It does not mean "Arab" in other sense and you insult Egyptians calling them Arabs just as you would insult an Iranian saying that. An Iranian is a Persian.

Now what you can not grasp is that the Jewish identity is not limited to religion. You can't grasp it because like your ignorance as to what Arab means, you cling to stereotypes of ignorance about our identities and engage in discriminatory bigoted negative stereotypes about us as you do Arabs.

When we call ourselves Jews it means many things and no we never have defined ourselves as race. You do, Nazis did but no Arab has ever defined us as a race just as we would never define Arabs as a race. We both know better.

Jewish identity is a collective term that may include common links to the Jewish religion, culture, ethnic characteristics, use of Yiddish or Hebrew or Arabic, and most importantly shared sense of despair, suffering and struggle to exist.

Our identity came about as a collective one at a time when many tribes were at war with one another. To prevent the Hebrews from disintegrating from within the Jewish religion was used as a tool to provide Jews a common identity to prevent imploding and becoming extinct.

To do this we created a relationship with God. We said, God would remember us as a collective of people, if we chose in return to remember God through collective worship. That's the promise or covenant we talk of with God. Its been continually misrepresented by people like you who will not take the time to educate themselves about Jewish or Arab identity and insist on speaking as if they are authorities on it.

We never said we were chosen people, or better people than non Jews. What we said is we entered into a collective agreement with ourselves to worship God as a collective so he could remember us as a collective, no more, no less.

In this device of faith worship through a collective, we created a common or collective identity and a glue to keep us together. It is this concept that keeps us to this day from going extinct despite efforts in the Christian world and Muslim world to wipe us out in genocides and religious wars.

The re-creation of Israel came about to defend ourselves from group extinction by re-creating our collective identity using a state or government apparatus.

In fact Zionism was invented by atheist and agnostic Jews who felt the best way to protect us from group extinction was by reinventing our collective as a political national one protected by a government. Ironically we would have never done this if Muslims did not through their Sharia law define us as infidel and call us dhimmi or inferior lesser humans. It was Muslims to this day through lack of separation between state and Islam the religion through Islamic Sharia law, that forced us to get out and create our own state to avoid their apartheid. As well after 3,000 years of humiliation and second class citizenship, pogroms and slaughters in Europe, the hatred of Jews came to ap inacle with the holocaust. Hitler popped a pimple... a slow festering pimple full of anti semitic pus. He didn't invent it, The pimple was already there. he simply popped it and released the poison for his own political gain and it easily spread across Europe. It had a network of churches only to happy to promote it.

If you were Christian and you denounced anti-Semitism you were sent to the camps with Jews and killed with them or shot on the spot.

There were Christians who died over the 3,000 years of anti Jewish persecution for refusing to hate Jews just as there were good Muslims who refused tobe anti-semites as well. We Jews to this day call such people righteous gentiles and they are remembered as much a part of our collective identity as anything else in our Jewish identity. They are an essential part of that existential common identity. Righteous gentiles and their sacrifices are a legacy of a love that stops us from hating non Jews.

You can try all you want to suggest Zionism is apartheid and racist or whatever crap leftist words you want to spew but it was created as a political and collective existential reaction to governments and elaborate networks of governments and their citizens trying to wipe us out. We started a nation not to hate anyone but to survive extinction.

 I was never taught as a Zionist that non Jews are inferior or Arabs are the enemy. I was taught as a Zionist that Muslims and Christians have religions equal in meaning as Judaism. Jews don't convert. Muslims and Christians do. Our religion does not permit forced conversion precisely because we respect other religons.

There are a minority of extremist Jews that might use Judaism as certain Muslims do Islam to spread and engage in hatred but this does not reflect on us as Jews, Zionists or Muslims or Arabs any more than we should hate and stereotype all Christians because of Christians who were Nazis or the anti-Semitism of the Catholic Church or Martin Luther, or the KKK. People in all religions have misappropriated those religions to justify war and hatred. Its the people engaging in misappropriation I challenge not the religion.

The Bible, the Koran, any religious book can be used to promote love and tolerance or war and hatred-its how its used.

You don't get it. You continue to use ridiculous stereotypes and project incorrect assumptions based on your lack of knowledge of Islam Judaism the Jewish identity and Arab identity.

Do not even begin to pose as someone who tells me to be ashamed of myself for being a Zionist. Take that superiority complex, that assumption you are superior to me and can talk down to me and tell me to feel ashamed of my collective identity as a Jew and the right to express it and place it exactly where you demand those same sentiments be placed when people talk of black people.

You continue to manifest the very ignorance you claim you fight against blacks against Jews and Arabs. Your posing as some leftist authority ont he Middle East is a joke. Stick to your advocating blacks should be separated from whites in Canadian schools. You clearly can't handle the rest of the world's different shades of nuance.

Stay in your ghetto before you fizzle.

[Omni]

4 hours ago, betsy said:

Explain.n

Should be self explanatory, his handling of the '08 recession was the worst and then he tried to ignore the 2015 one.  . 

[?Impact]

1 hour ago, The_Squid said:

Aren't they Jews because they're Jewish?

Read the book of Judges, at least chapter 1.

[overthere]

18 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Read the book of Judges, at least chapter 1.

Is that the new book from John Grisham?

[betsy]

2 hours ago, The_Squid said:

LOL

Aren't they Jews because they're Jewish?

Are Canadian Jews from Judea?  Or are they Canadians...  who are Jews...  because they're Jewish?

 

 

 

Why do you even need to specify they're Canadian Jews, if being Jewish is not significant at all?  Why are there Chinese-Canadians?  French-Canadians? Filipino-Canadians?

 

It's the ancestry!  Where did the ancestors of Canadian Jews come from?

 

Quote

“You have to ask yourself: Why are Jews called Jews? Well, the Chinese are called Chinese because they come from China.  The Japanese are called Japanese because they come from Japan.  Well, Jews are called Jews because they come from Judea.  This is our ancestral homeland.  Jews are not foreign colonialists in Judea,” he stated.

https://unitedwithisrael.org/netanyahu-we-are-called-jews-because-we-come-from-judea/

 

"Jew," is not a religion. 

Edited February 16, 2017 by betsy

[The_Squid]

4 minutes ago, betsy said:

It's the ancestry!  Where did the ancestors of Canadian Jews come from?

If your ancestors came from England 100 years ago, do you call yourself English?

 

5 minutes ago, betsy said:

"Jew," is not a religion.

Jew

jo͞o/

noun

noun: Jew; plural noun: Jews

1. 1.

   a member of the people and cultural community whose traditional religion is Judaism and who trace their origins through the ancient Hebrew people of Israel to Abraham.

[betsy]

Just now, The_Squid said:

Jew

jo͞o/

noun

noun: Jew; plural noun: Jews

1. 1.

   a member of the people and cultural community whose traditional religion is Judaism and who trace their origins through the ancient Hebrew people of Israel to Abraham.

 

And?

lol.

[The_Squid]

2 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

And?

lol.

Answer my question....   if your ancestors came from England 100 years ago, are you English?

[betsy]

3 minutes ago, The_Squid said:

Answer my question....   if your ancestors came from England 100 years ago, are you English?

 

Yes!  It's my ancestry!  Why?  Do you think I should say I'm French? 

When it suits me I can specifically identify myself as an English-Canadian!

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by betsy

[The_Squid]

Just now, betsy said:

Yes.  When it suits me I can specifically say I'm an English-Canadian!

Was that my question?  No.  

Do you refer to yourself as English if your ancestors came from England?

[betsy]

12 minutes ago, The_Squid said:

Was that my question?  No.  

Do you refer to yourself as English if your ancestors came from England?

 

Yes.  If I want to, I can identify myself as English-Canadian (if I'm a Canadian citizen).  Being Canadian is a citizenship.  You're moving your goal post, btw.  You referred to Canadian-Jews.

 

Anyway.......

You're missing the point, and taking the issue off context.

 

Jews identify as Jews because of their ancestry which originated from that region, not religion.  There are Jews that are Christians, you know.

That's the issue with Hernanday, which I was responding to.  He claims that "Jew," is a religion.  It's not.

Now back to topic.

Edited February 16, 2017 by betsy

[The_Squid]

48 minutes ago, betsy said:

Being Canadian is a citizenship. 

From your examples above:  Being Chinese is a citizenship.  Being Japanese is a citizenship.   Being a Jew is a.......?  

49 minutes ago, betsy said:

There are Jews that are Christians, you know.

There are Israelis that are Christian.  

Yes, there are Jews who identify that way based on their culture and not religion.  That might be the distinction you are trying to make...   but they're not from Judea...  they're all over the world.

[The_Squid]

53 minutes ago, betsy said:

Yes.  If I want to, I can identify myself as English-Canadian

Are you being purposely obtuse?  I asked if you identify as English.  Stop adding to the term.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Omni said:

Should be self explanatory, his handling of the '08 recession was the worst and then he tried to ignore the 2015 one.  . 

This sounds suspiciously like alternate facts. Most of the world seemed green with envy at how smoothly Canada sailed through the recession, and we only had a slight, temporary, localized recession due to the price of gas being abruptly cut in half.

[?Impact]

17 minutes ago, Argus said:

This sounds suspiciously like alternate facts. Most of the world seemed green with envy at how smoothly Canada sailed through the recession, and we only had a slight, temporary, localized recession due to the price of gas being abruptly cut in half.

Sorry, but before the recession oil was trading at $65/bbl. Yes, Harper managed to hide his description of the Canadian economy by increasing oil exports during the few years when it soared to over $125/bbl. Please don't try and rewrite history, some of us are actually paying attention.

[Argus]

5 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Sorry, but before the recession oil was trading at $65/bbl. Yes, Harper managed to hide his description of the Canadian economy by increasing oil exports during the few years when it soared to over $125/bbl. Please don't try and rewrite history, some of us are actually paying attention.

The price dropped from $108 per barrel in June 2014, to $47 in January 2015. That would be when we had our own brief little recession.

As for the financial crisis, Canada sailed through it relatively unmarked, as everyone noted at the time.

[Omni]

38 minutes ago, Argus said:

This sounds suspiciously like alternate facts. Most of the world seemed green with envy at how smoothly Canada sailed through the recession, and we only had a slight, temporary, localized recession due to the price of gas being abruptly cut in half.

We may have been somewhat luckier than some others, but it could have been better. Here are some actual facts for you.

http://www.canadiansunitedforchange.ca/the_harper_government_and_the_recession

[Argus]

11 minutes ago, Omni said:

We may have been somewhat luckier than some others, but it could have been better. Here are some actual facts for you.

http://www.canadiansunitedforchange.ca/the_harper_government_and_the_recession

A big union hate site is going to give me actual facts? I don't think so! Their complaints are all one-sided dreck. Harper could have walked on water and they would have been bitterly critical. Sure our 'recovery' was shallow, but then so was our fall. And their complaints about the 2015 mini-recession being all Harper's fault is fatuous nonsense.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Argus

[Omni]

12 minutes ago, Argus said:

A big union hate site is going to give me actual facts? I don't think so! Their complaints are all one-sided dreck. Harper could have walked on water and they would have been bitterly critical. Sure our 'recovery' was shallow, but then so was our fall. And their complaints about the 2015 mini-recession being all Harper's fault is fatuous nonsense.

Your allowed to choose whatever "facts" you prefer.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Omni said:

Your allowed to choose whatever "facts" you prefer.

I choose the facts which are actual facts, as recognized by the vast majority of people in the world, including (gasp) mainstream media. Propaganda sites by zealots of any political stripe will never give you the truth.