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Are the Liberals really going to Tax Workplace Benefits?


Boges

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5 minutes ago, blueblood said:

It's very appropriate, Trudeau is wanting to hike taxes to pay for his excessive spending and it's only a tax grab that won't help anything

I don't think Charles will agree - don't want to have all my work deleted :P

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Let me get back to the OP because this thread seems to be off in never never land.

Employment benefits should be taxed or else they become a way of hiding income. A good example is an automobile that you use for both work and private transportation, you should be taxed on the automobile but the amount that is clearly for work purposes (commuting to your normal place of work is not considered) should be exempt; and this is the way it is calculated on a pro-rated basis. Lets look at health and dental benefits in detail.

There are clearly many 'health' benefits that could be considered exempt (e.g. crutches, prescription medication, etc.) but others that clearly are luxuries (e.g. spa or health club membership). I think the grey area are things like hospital accommodations, and maybe a standard needs to be set. I believe most (all?) provincial plans give you ward accommodation for a hospital stay, and most employee benefits will upgrade that to semi-private rooms; perhaps that should be the standard for exempt and when you have those special enticement plans for executives with private room or suite coverage they be taxed. Same thing should apply to dental, where is the standard between reasonable care and vanity.

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7 hours ago, Boges said:

Fairness to whom? People who don't have workplace benefits? 

"Workplace benefits? What are workplace benefits?"   -millions of Canadians my age and younger.

I gather that most people used to have things like dental and defined-benefit pension plans and so on...  but those are going the way of Blockbuster, unless you work in the public sector.  I pay for pharmacy and optical and dental care out of my own pocket.

If I earn $50,000 a year and spend $1000 of it on things that Civil Servant Sarah gets given to her on top of her $50,000 salary, is it fair that I am paying income tax on money I have to spend on dental and medicine, while she gets those things for free?  At present that's how it works.

If my medical and dental expenses exceed some ridiculously large number (I think it's 3% of my income) then the amount over 3% becomes a tax deduction, but I've only reached that level once, in a year when I had costly dental work done... and I think the grand total tax deduction I got for it was under $200... in a year when I spent well over $2000 on medical and dental.

7 hours ago, Boges said:

It doesn't make it fair to people who don't have those services. Fairness would be having the government cover services like dental, pharmacare and eye glasses.

Well I don't see that happening any time soon.

7 hours ago, Boges said:

We gonna tax groceries too? 

Sure the argument can be made that it's income and should be taxed. But it's political suicide and completely contradictory to pretending you give a crap about the middle class. 

I don't care if Civil Servant Sarah has to pay a tax on her benefits, but if they wanted to pretend they give a crap about the middle class, they could at least lower the threshold for medical and dental expenses.  

 -k

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28 minutes ago, kimmy said:

"Workplace benefits? What are workplace benefits?"   -millions of Canadians my age and younger.

I gather that most people used to have things like dental and defined-benefit pension plans and so on...  but those are going the way of Blockbuster, unless you work in the public sector.  I pay for pharmacy and optical and dental care out of my own pocket.

 

You never really bring yourself up by bringing others down.

I am not a civil servant, but I have benefits.  Anyway, the CPP changes that most experts didn't think we needed will cost me around 2k a year when fully implemented and I wont get it back when I retire, the carbon tax that won't reduce carbon?  who knows, I have also seen estimates of thousands a year, I did get a small tax break, around $500, you know, because they care about the middle class, but I also lost income splitting, cuz im middle class rich you know, which was worth nearly a couple thousand a year to me, if this health benefit change happened maybe another thousand.  So yea call them taxes or don't but this is what the libs do, they convince people they are taking care of them while taking the money away elsewhere. 

Of course I work pretty hard for myself 350 hrs of ot last year and what I get for my hard middle class work is punished so liberals can buy votes, I didn't need the money for my kids education or anything.  At this point in my career the liberals are making it so any raises I get for the next 5-10 years will be eaten up by increased 'taxes' for the benefit of people who don't work as hard as me, not to mention inflation.  Considering the way they spend and the economy etc, I expect there will be other 'taxes', it's funny though, if the GST cut was the obvious problem why don't the liberals honestly appeal to those who voted for them and simply increase it?  Maybe that wouldn't be... good for them, instead, lets pretend a carbon tax is really about carbon, that'll fool those sheep.

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15 minutes ago, poochy said:

You never really bring yourself up by bringing others down.

I am not a civil servant, but I have benefits.  Anyway, the CPP changes that most experts didn't think we needed

No one is bringing anyone down.

But I'd really like you to find these experts.  Experts have been saying for years that there is a crisis of retirement savings.

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19 minutes ago, Boges said:

Civil Servants aren't the only workers in Canada that get bennies. 

I think any decent full-time permanent job has a benefits. 

Now Pension plans are a different story. 

 

Yeah, all of my jobs in the last two decades have had benefits, and only this last one has been with the public service.    

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2 hours ago, Boges said:

Civil Servants aren't the only workers in Canada that get bennies. 

I think any decent full-time permanent job has a benefits.

Well that's certainly not true. Lots of people are self-employed, lots of people are working part-time or multiple part-time jobs, and people like me are working for an employer that (for whatever reason...) just doesn't offer any sort of benefit plan. The notion that everybody will just have benefit plans (if they don't they can simply change jobs and go to an employer who offers one) just isn't realistic anymore.  One of the sticking points in the recent Canada Post labor showdown was a plan to phase in less generous benefits for new employees, while long-time employees existing benefit plans would be "grandfathered in".  Employers are claiming they have to offer less just to stay competitive or stay financially viable.

With benefits, as with pension plans, people are increasingly on their own... tax law should reflect that reality.

2 hours ago, Boges said:

Now Pension plans are a different story. 

I don't have a pension plan either, but at least with retirement savings, I can use my RRSP contributions reduce my taxable income at tax time.  Why not treat medical expenses the same way?  If you don't have to pay income tax on the money that goes to fixing your teeth, how come I have to pay income tax on the money I spend fixing my teeth?

 -k

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Because our health care systems are deficient.  Teeth should always have been covered.

I can appreciate the sentiments being expressed by people who don't have coverage. I didn't have any benefits at the time when I had to do my teeth. We've only had benefits where I work for a few years now.  A few of us older employees suggested the idea, most of the younger more seasonal employees aren't interested.

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If you tax one thing, better tax them all.  If you have a job your employer pays half the CPP payments, you pay the other half.  if you are self employed, you pay both sides.  Time for all those employed freeloaders to either pay both sides or get taxed on the employer contribution.

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1 hour ago, overthere said:

If you tax one thing, better tax them all.  If you have a job your employer pays half the CPP payments, you pay the other half.  if you are self employed, you pay both sides.  Time for all those employed freeloaders to either pay both sides or get taxed on the employer contribution.

In principal I agree but if the government did do this they would likely exempt and/or compensate public servants while screwing people in the private sector. That approach I oppose because it would be even less fair than the current system.

BTW: CPP contributions are deducted by the business and the self employed do not pay tax on the employer portion so your premise WRT CPP Is wrong.

Edited by TimG
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3 hours ago, kimmy said:

I don't have a pension plan either, but at least with retirement savings, I can use my RRSP contributions reduce my taxable income at tax time.  Why not treat medical expenses the same way?  If you don't have to pay income tax on the money that goes to fixing your teeth, how come I have to pay income tax on the money I spend fixing my teeth?

I think they should just make them deductible for everyone by lowering the threshold to something reasonable that would actually provide a benefit to people who don't need major dental work.

Edited by TimG
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1 hour ago, overthere said:

If you tax one thing, better tax them all.  If you have a job your employer pays half the CPP payments, you pay the other half.  if you are self employed, you pay both sides.  Time for all those employed freeloaders to either pay both sides or get taxed on the employer contribution.

So what deductions do the self employed freeloaders take that are not available to the employed?

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12 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

So what deductions do the self employed freeloaders take that are not available to the employed?

There are not any left that don't represent a real cost of doing business.
Even your home internet connection is not entirely deductible if you use it personal use.

Some accountants rave about the benefits of tax deferral but that will not help someone with a small business providing employment for themselves.

Edited by TimG
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On 1/31/2017 at 8:42 AM, eyeball said:

Teeth should always have been covered.

 

I agree (and not because my wife is a orthodontist), likewise eyes and physiotherapy.......all areas important to a persons well being and overall health. Cosmetics aside, basic coverage in these three areas would likely save more money for taxpayers on the backside of peoples lives.

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