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Muslims Shot and Killed in Quebec City


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10 minutes ago, Argus said:

How are they responsible if they never called for violence?

You yourself have used words that describe Muslims as less than human:  uncivilized, barbaric, ignorant, backward - just a few of the terms you have used.   You, along with DoP, have claimed they are unrelentingly and unredeemingly violent and push the idea that they are a danger to the "West"; sworn enemies for the ages.  Any suggestion that most Muslims don't fit into your definition of violent, ignorant savages is met with derision.   This is called demonizing people.   When you demonize a group, you make it easier to perpetrate crime against them, including internment and murder, because they are less than human, undeserving of the usual considerations offered the rest of us.   The US administration is already moving into the German scenario where the demonizing of the group within the society is followed by official sanctions and actions against that group.   Fortunately, there are an awful lot of Americans who are fighting that, and I hope they win.

No doubt, you had no intention of encouraging anyone going on a shooting spree - most people who spout your kind of BS neither want nor expect that.  Still, you should take responsibility for what you say and the effect it has on the wider world.   Not that you will of course.   

 

Edited by dialamah
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Just now, CITIZEN_2015 said:

But it doesn't go without saying for the murder's parents right????

I don't know what you mean here.

I'm just saying that I haven't been here for a long time, but I can already see from Dialamah's posts that she is a very compassionate person.  Expressing her compassion for the parents doesn't mean she has no compassion for the ones who died.

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11 minutes ago, Peter F said:

What level of accountablility? That they should be assassinated? That they should be charged with some crime? That they shoud be ridiculed in public? What level of accountability would you like ?

 

 

Ridiculed in public.   People should be aware and responsible for what they say, and public officials even more so than private citizens.   We communicate with each other because we want to persuade others to our point of view and take an action to support us.   No point in acting surprised when that happens because the action is more enthusiastic and deadly than you anticipated.

 

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3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

You yourself have used words that describe Muslims as less than human:  uncivilized, barbaric, ignorant, backward - just a few of the terms you have used.

This is Canada. I get to judge people by the culture and values of Canada, and to find them wanting. Nothing I've said about the values and culture of world Muslims is incorrect in comparison to the standards in Canada.

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

  You, along with DoP, have claimed they are unrelentingly and unredeemingly violent and push the idea that they are a danger to the "West"; sworn enemies for the ages.

To everyone.

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

 Any suggestion that most Muslims don't fit into your definition of violent, ignorant savages is met with derision.

Again, this is Canada. My interpretation of moderate does not include the those who subscribe to the underlying values of Islam on matters like women, gays, Jews and 'infidels' which are virtually universal throughout the Muslim world. That you believe any Muslim who does not openly call for terrorism is 'moderate' is up to you. My standards are different and I've made that very clear.

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

When you demonize a group, you make it easier to perpetrate crime against them, including internment and murder, because they are less than human, undeserving of the usual considerations offered the rest of us.

One could also say that when you suppress legitimate political views and opinions on issues of national importance, as you and your kind do, you open up the door for violence. Perhaps this guy was angry because he had no outlet to express his opinions, especially being a university student.

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

  The US administration is already moving into the German scenario where the demonizing of the group within the society

Again, I can't think of any way the US administration has demonized Muslims. Certainly candidate Trump demonized illegal Mexican immigrants, but he never said anything about Muslims that I'm aware of. It is true, however, that the primary security concerns for the US, legitimate security concerns, come from the Muslim world.

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, dialamah said:

You yourself have used words that describe Muslims as less than human:  uncivilized, barbaric, ignorant, backward - just a few of the terms you have used.   You, along with DoP, have claimed they are unrelentingly and unredeemingly violent and push the idea that they are a danger to the "West"; sworn enemies for the ages.  Any suggestion that most Muslims don't fit into your definition of violent, ignorant savages is met with derision.   This is called demonizing people.   When you demonize a group, you make it easier to perpetrate crime against them, including internment and murder, because they are less than human, undeserving of the usual considerations offered the rest of us.   The US administration is already moving into the German scenario where the demonizing of the group within the society is followed by official sanctions and actions against that group.   Fortunately, there are an awful lot of Americans who are fighting that, and I hope they win.

No doubt, you had no intention of encouraging anyone going on a shooting spree - most people who spout your kind of BS neither want nor expect that.  Still, you should take responsibility for what you say and the effect it has on the wider world.   Not that you will of course.   

 

What I have been saying is that we need to improve our immigration policies to be more SELECTIVE as who gets into this country. I always opposed a regional ban or a ban based on religion but always promote the idea of selectivity. Those who are not compatible with our high values of equality (of races, gender), respect (for other cultures and religions and women), compassion, freedom and democratic way of life must be barred from Canada regardless of where they come from and that extends to those who wish to impose their way of life upon us. If they CHOOSE to come here then they must already be compatible with these values or accept them and NOT try to change those who are born here or are living here..

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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8 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I don't know what you mean here.

I'm just saying that I haven't been here for a long time, but I can already see from Dialamah's posts that she is a very compassionate person.  Expressing her compassion for the parents doesn't mean she has no compassion for the ones who died.

I didn't know Dialamah or that she is a female. And no I never meant that she doesn't have compassion for the victims. I was just suddenly surprised to see sympathy for murder's family and not the victims in same sentence. I understand now and extend my apology to her and you too.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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4 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

 Those who are not compatible with our high values of equalit (of races, gender), respect (for other cultures and religions and women), compassion, freedom and democratic way of life must be barred from Canada regardless of where they come from and that extends to those who wish to impose their way of life upon us. If they CHOOSE to come here then they must already be compatible with these values or accept them and NOT try to change them.

and there's the goon; To many a muslim, by virtue of being a mulsim, cannot possibly be compatable with Canadian values. 

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41 minutes ago, Argus said:

If not, then we need to get hold of immigration

I see that as a completely different issue. I agree that we need to consider our immigration numbers, I have been saying that for a long time. Our immigration has been driven for many decades by the economists saying we need to grow the population in order to grow the country. This is a problem with our economic policy, let's look at that and not point to someones skin colour or religion as the problem.

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24 minutes ago, Argus said:

One could also say that when you suppress legitimate political views and opinions on issues of national importance, as you and your kind do, you open up the door for violence.

 

Anti-Islamic rhetoric has been increasing over the last few years, followed by anti-Muslim crimes, and now this.   I'm sorry you fail to see the difference between legitimate discussion of issues and demonizing a group.  

Here's an example:

You claim that 97% of Muslims support killing gays, and you provide the Pew Research cite.   When I go check that cite, it turns out that 97% of Muslims answered a survey by saying that Muslims could not live a moral life if they were gay.    That's a misrepresentation of the facts because there's a huge difference between "support for killing gays" and "gays cannot live a moral life".   So that's NOT legitimate political discourse, it's misrepresenting the facts to suit your agenda, and which has the side effect of demonizing Muslims.

When you dismiss, belittle and disregard any proof that Muslims can be just as moral, intelligent and progressive as any Canadian, and push the notion that they are unable to fit in because they are inherently violent and backward, that's not legitimate discourse. 

And it's the false rhetoric describing Muslims as incompatible to our Canadian way of life, a threat to our values and a group unable to change or progress that inspires hatred, fear and results in somebody deciding to *do* something about it; to be hero for all the people who believe Muslims should not be here, but are too scared or old or lacking in conviction to take that step.

Your claim that 'legitimate discourse' is being shut down when people such as myself present facts that do not jive with your narrative is just your own inner snowflake coming out.   

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1 hour ago, Peter F said:

and there's the goon; To many a muslim, by virtue of being a mulsim, cannot possibly be compatable with Canadian values. 

Those many are wrong. I know Muslims who are as westernized as any western man and woman. They party, drink, dance enjoy life as anyone. Not all Muslims are fanatics  praying 5 times a day wearing burka growing beard same as not all Christians are church going, anti-abortionists, Christ loving fanatics. This is stereotyping. You may see them all over the workplace, public malls and buses without realizing they are Muslims because of stereotyping. We need to SELECT those who are compatible or ready to accept and respect our way of life or live their own lives in a peaceful manner.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I didn't know Dialamah or that she is a female. And no I never meant that she doesn't have compassion for the victims. I was just suddenly surprised to see sympathy for murder's family and not the victims in same sentence. I understand now and extend my apology to her and you too.

No worries :)

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1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I didn't know Dialamah or that she is a female. And no I never meant that she doesn't have compassion for the victims. I was just suddenly surprised to see sympathy for murder's family and not the victims in same sentence. I understand now and extend my apology to her and you too.

 

Yah, no problem.   :)   We all make mistakes, I've made some doozies myself.   Thanks for having the grace to offer an apology.  

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7 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

So will you call on Trudeau to label it right-wing terrorism if that is what it turns out to be?

How about calling it "Quebec separatist terrorism"?

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6 hours ago, dialamah said:

You yourself have used words that describe Muslims as less than human:  uncivilized, barbaric, ignorant, backward - just a few of the terms you have used.  

 

Several members here have used identical language to describe Americans and the U.S....for years.   It is a Canadian pastime.   So ?

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2 hours ago, blueblood said:

I think just plain old terrorism will do.  

One would wonder what prescription medication cocktail this nutbar was on.

Right-wing terrorism....   Why would you be afraid to tell it like it is?  You don't have any qualms about saying 'Islamic terrorist"....

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13 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

 

It is a known fact that those who are spreading hate in any shape or form against any group of people are responsible for the violence that follows. They may not be the ones who pull the trigger but they are responsible.

:rolleyes:

BS!  NO SUCH FACT!  That reasoning occurs only in a liberal's twisted mind!

 

If that's what you think - then you better blame the media for spreading the hate!

  If the media don't publicize it, there wouldn't be hatred being spread all over the globe, and violent actions wouldn't be  taken by those who hear about them.  If that's your  reasoning, you should be pointing your finger at the media!  Your reasoning is saying they're the ones who actually pulled the trigger!

 

If the media doesn't publicize massacres like the way they did Sandy Hook, or Columbine - with all these coverage of endless vigils and endless interviews about sorrow and fear and disbelief - there wouldn't be copycats wanting and trying to outdo what these infamous killers did, just to gain notoriety! 

 

Don't some of you guys get it yet?  A lot of killers are in it for PUBLICITY!  FAME!

If that's the way your reasoning goes..... blame the media!

 

Have you ever killed anyone due to what others tell you? 

 

Didn't your mother ever teach you, "if someone tells you to eat poo - will you eat it?"

 

Bottomline:  you're responsible for your own action!  Unless someone put a gun to your head and forced you to do something.....you're the one who makes decisions and responsible for what you do!  THAT'S,  the fact!

 

In fact, we can say that it's the liberal's penchant for blaming everyone except the guilty one, that most likely encourage a lot of people to do crimes!

  Liberals and so-called progressives have messed up people's moral compass - especially the young. 

I say, liberals got blood on their hands! Lots and lots of blood! So, there!

 

 

 

Edited by betsy
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4 hours ago, The_Squid said:

Right-wing terrorism....   Why would you be afraid to tell it like it is?  You don't have any qualms about saying 'Islamic terrorist"....

What are the charges laid against him?

The last time I heard, the charges were first degree murder - no mention of any terrorist charges.  Why not terrorism?

 

All kinds  of heinous massacres (especially those publicized ones) can be labelled as terrorism - because they cause terror to people.  But we all know the kind of terrorism we're talking about here - the one borne out of bigotry and hate.

 

Do you know his motive why he killed?  Did the cops ever explained why he isn't being charged with terrorism? 

Edited by betsy
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