CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Army Guy said: So what your saying is "only you can jump to conclusions" What on earth is this supposed to mean!!!!!!!!. Where did I say I have a monopoly to conclude based on evidence at hand? It is a known fact that those who are spreading hate in any shape or form against any group of people are responsible for the violence that follows. They may not be the ones who pull the trigger but they are responsible. Edited January 30, 2017 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Alexandre Bissonnette has been charged with 6 counts of first degree murder. Such charges face a maximum of 150 years without parole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 In a separate thread I posted a few months ago I asked for a return of Capital Punishment to Canada for violent crimes against women and children and mass crimes including acts of terrorism. 3 minutes ago, Smallc said: Alexandre Bissonnette has been charged with 6 counts of first degree murder. Such charges face a maximum of 150 years without parole. Unfortunately he would serve only one-third of that. In a separate thread I posted a few months ago I asked for the return of Capital Punishment to Canada for violent crimes against women and children and mass murderers including acts of terrorism. I can see that a life sentence without parole may be as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 16 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: What on earth is this supposed to mean!!!!!!!!. Where did I say I have a monopoly to conclude based on evidence at hand? It is a known fact that those who are spreading hate in any shape or form against any group of people are responsible for the violence that follows. They may not be the ones who pull the trigger but they are responsible. Quote The timing of this hate attack makes me wonder if Donald Trump's recent action to ban Muslims entering US and the publicity it receives had anything to do with this hate crime. Something in my mind says very likely. That is your statement is it not , your jumping to conclusions are you not, if your not there must be some shred of evidence that drove you to make this statement.... Yes you can prove that all these comments from the President of the USA are responsible for all this attacks, here in Canada, because trump has so much influence here .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 It seems like an awful lot for just one person to accomplish - just getting that kind of weaponry in Canada can't be easy. Or maybe it is, I can't say I've ever shopped for an AK-47. I wonder if they will find he wasn't working alone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Unfortunately he would serve only one-third of that. In a separate thread I posted a few months ago I asked for the return of Capital Punishment to Canada for violent crimes against women and children and mass murderers including acts of terrorism. I can see that a life sentence without parole may be as good. I'm sorry, but that's incorrect. First degree murder has a punishment of up to (or only, not sure) 25 to life. The judge can apply such sentences consecutively now. He has also been charged with 5 counts of attempted murder - I'm not sure if those can be consecutive sentences. I don't think so. Edited January 30, 2017 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Smallc said: I'm sorry, but that's incorrect. First degree murder has a punishment of up to (or only, not sure) 25 to life. The judge can apply such sentences consecutively now. He has also been charged with 5 counts of attempted murder - I'm not sure if those can be consecutive sentences. I don't think so. no your right they can be consecutive.... For multiple murder offences committed after December 2, 2011, a court may, after considering any jury recommendation, impose consecutive periods of parole ineligibility for each murder. While the provision is not mandatory, this means, for example, that an individual convicted of three counts of first degree murder could face life with no parole for 75 years - or 25 years for each conviction. This provision has been used in several cases where parole ineligibility periods have been extended beyond 25 years; in two cases to 75 years prior to parole eligibility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(Canadian_law) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 It's the attempted murder I'm not sure of. I don't think that can be sentenced consecutively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 It appears that Alexandre Bissonnette, age 27, is the lone suspect in the deadly attack on a Quebec City mosque. He was known in the city’s activist circles as a right-wing troll who frequently took anti-foreigner and anti-feminist positions and stood up for U.S. President Donald Trump. Mr. Bissonnette’s demonstrated little interest in extremist politics until a year ago when French nationalist leader Marine Le Pen visited Quebec City and inspired Mr. Bissonnette to vocal extreme online activism. This continued during the recent US election with all the extremist rhetoric from Donald Trump and others. It seems that these politicians are responsible for the radicalization of our youth and leading them into committing these acts of terrorism. When will they be held accountable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 minute ago, ?Impact said: ...When will they be held accountable? Never....Trump doesn't even speak French ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) Some personal details on Bissonnette Quote The suspect in the deadly attack on a Quebec City mosque was known in the city’s activist circles as a right-wing troll who frequently took anti-foreigner and anti-feminist positions and stood up for U.S. President Donald Trump. People who knew him: Quote He said they frequently clashed on politics when Mr. Bissonnette attacked refugees or expressed support for Ms. Le Pen or Mr. Trump. “I can tell you he was certainly no Muslim convert. I wrote him off as a xenophobe. I didn’t even think of him as totally racist, but he was enthralled by a borderline racist nationalist movement,” Mr. Boissoneault said. “He was someone who made frequent extreme comments in social media denigrating refugees and feminism. It wasn’t outright hate, rather part of this new nationalist conservative identity movement that is more intolerant than hateful.” It seems he was pretty regular Canadian guy before being "radicalized" by right-wing, anti-Islamic/immigration rhetoric: Quote Mr. Bissonnette studied political science, Mr. Kingma-Lord said, but seemed more interested in the campus chess club than any kind of ideology. “He never posted anything about hate speech,” Mr. Kingma-Lord said. “He wouldn’t share any political ideology. When we talked, it was just normal talk.” He never had any trouble with the police, and he really only started down this path in March last year. His parents must be devastated. I can't imagine what they're going through. Edited January 30, 2017 by dialamah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, ?Impact said: It appears that Alexandre Bissonnette, age 27, is the lone suspect in the deadly attack on a Quebec City mosque. He was known in the city’s activist circles as a right-wing troll who frequently took anti-foreigner and anti-feminist positions and stood up for U.S. President Donald Trump. Mr. Bissonnette’s demonstrated little interest in extremist politics until a year ago when French nationalist leader Marine Le Pen visited Quebec City and inspired Mr. Bissonnette to vocal extreme online activism. This continued during the recent US election with all the extremist rhetoric from Donald Trump and others. It seems that these politicians are responsible for the radicalization of our youth and leading them into committing these acts of terrorism. When will they be held accountable? Held accountable for what? I don't think Trump or Le Pen ever advocated that muslims should be shot. It takes a special kind of stupid to listen to bigots and assume then that the targets of bigotry should be killed. Even if Trump/Le Pen/Argus/Dogonporch advocate for restricting immigration from muslim lands - or just muslims - i have not heard one of them saying kill them. although there are lots of blathermouths on internet sites who do actually say such things but unsurprisingly never do so themselves. The one who needs to be accountable is the perpetrator of the crime - not all those who say things that the perp may agree with. On the other hand, I do agree that idiot talk emboldens crackpots, so one must be careful what one says or at least have the brains to point out that the targets of thier bigotry also have legal rights that must be respected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 hour ago, BubberMiley said: It would be a stretch to say the current climate and anti-muslim rhetoric didn't have anything to do with it. What is anti-Muslim rhetoric but words? I think there are two ways you combat ideas you don't like, with words, in an attempt to convince people to agree with you, or with violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Smallc said: I'm sorry, but that's incorrect. First degree murder has a punishment of up to (or only, not sure) 25 to life. The judge can apply such sentences consecutively now. He has also been charged with 5 counts of attempted murder - I'm not sure if those can be consecutive sentences. I don't think so. I was merely suggesting that since he is already 27 years old and average lifespan for men in Canada is 77 then he will serve only 50 years of the 150 years so they might as well punish him with 500 years it does not make any difference. Edited January 30, 2017 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, dialamah said: His parents must be devastated. I can't imagine what they're going through. Geez you worry about his parents!!!!! What about the parents of all those killed and those injured?? Edited January 30, 2017 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 I want to know if he did have a big deposit into his bank acct 6 months and were he get the gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 17 minutes ago, ?Impact said: It appears that Alexandre Bissonnette, age 27, is the lone suspect in the deadly attack on a Quebec City mosque. He was known in the city’s activist circles as a right-wing troll who frequently took anti-foreigner and anti-feminist positions and stood up for U.S. President Donald Trump. Mr. Bissonnette’s demonstrated little interest in extremist politics until a year ago when French nationalist leader Marine Le Pen visited Quebec City and inspired Mr. Bissonnette to vocal extreme online activism. This continued during the recent US election with all the extremist rhetoric from Donald Trump and others. It seems that these politicians are responsible for the radicalization of our youth and leading them into committing these acts of terrorism. When will they be held accountable? How are they responsible if they never called for violence? If all they called for was governmental changes then how is violence even going to help with that? I agree that all the rhetoric might have contributed to this guy's decision to resort to violence but I don't see the direct link. I don't even see (mind you I don't know what Le Pen is saying in France) where anything Trump has actually said about Muslims is all that bad. I know he said there should be a ban "until our country can figure out what the hell is going on" but I don't recall him ever demonizing Muslims in the way he has Mexican illegals, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Peter F said: Held accountable for what? I don't think Trump or Le Pen ever advocated that muslims should be shot. No, but he did spread xenophobic hatred. I agree that Trump and Le Pen are not the same as Osama Bin Laden, but they do have a level of culpability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 minute ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Geez you worry about his parents!!!!! What about the parents of all those killed and those injured?? I've been crying for the victims since I first heard about this. Does this mean I can't also have compassion for the parents, whose son has committed an unspeakable act? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: The timing of this hate attack makes me wonder if Donald Trump's recent action to ban Muslims entering US and the publicity it receives had anything to do with this hate crime. Something in my mind says very likely. Uh-oh, nonsense alert. The thought that Trump is somehow responsible for this heinous crime is beyond ridiculous. There were SEVERAL such attacks in the US during Obama's terms, in spite of his many substantial overtures and moves with regard to the Muslim world in general. No, the crazed among us do not need Obamas or Trumps to rise to power to give them the go ahead some kind of sign to launch out and attack innocents. And then there is Europe, which has been bending over backwards to the Muslim world for many years. I could tick of the many such attacks over there, but there is no point in embarrassing anybody. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 minute ago, dialamah said: I've been crying for the victims since I first heard about this. Does this mean I can't also have compassion for the parents, whose son has committed an unspeakable act? Then maybe in your post you should have mentioned both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 What level of accountablility? That they should be assassinated? That they should be charged with some crime? That they shoud be ridiculed in public? What level of accountability would you like ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, sharkman said: Uh-oh, nonsense alert. The thought that Trump is somehow responsible for this heinous crime is beyond ridiculous. You are trying to cover up the facts. The timing is too much of a coincident to rule out (and I said very likely). The speeches and rhetoric create a hate environment in which a virus like this guy or guys can grow and thrive. Implying that certain group or groups are a danger or against our country or nation incites some crazy idiots or losers or nutshells (and they are plenty in all societies western or eastern) to take the matter into their own hands and murder in order to protect their people/country/family or whatever he may feel is in danger. In their minds they are doing society good and are following Trump's way. Edited January 31, 2017 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Argus said: How are they responsible if they never called for violence? The same way parents of wayward children are responsible. I never said Trump or Le Pen should be charged with murder, or even accessory to murder. They are however major influential figures, and need to be accountable for their actions. Continually spreading hatred towards groups like they do is not acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, ?Impact said: No, but he did spread xenophobic hatred. I agree that Trump and Le Pen are not the same as Osama Bin Laden, but they do have a level of culpability. There was a column in the paper earlier, I think by Ibbitson, talking about that by 2036 the number of foreign born people in Canada will outnumber 'old stock' Canadians, and how this is not a social engineering experiment anyone ever proposed or ever offered up for debate. He said people who were here already aren't happy about the way their country was irretrievably changed. And he's right. Trump and I suppose Le Pen, are saying, "Hey, look at how our country is being changed. Do we want it to change this way? If not, then we need to get hold of immigration!" I fail to see how that is an illegitimate position to take or how they shouldn't be allowed to take it. If Pierre Trudeau or Brian Mulroney had smilingly told Canadians that once their immigration programs got into full bore their cities would have more foreigners in it than Canadians they'd have been out of office by the end of day, thrown out by their own parties. Almost no one would have supported them in such a goal. But nobody was ever told what was happening, and even today, it's virtually impossible to discuss immigration. Anyone who questions it publicly is vilified by the political elites and media. If this was done in most countries there'd have been a blood bath of monumental proportions. The fact this is pretty much the first and only serious violence on the issue is a tribute to how peaceful and calm Canadians are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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